NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jun 12, 2017 20:04:35 GMT -5
Almost anybody can do all of this PROVIDED SOMEONE GIVES THEM THE RIGHT "TOOLS"
So let me tell you about how I managed. While I did not have a paying job I volunteerd for 50+ hours per week → no problem. BUT I had a housekeeper who, aside from everything else was an extremely good cook. We lived in a company provided house (rent paid) and in addition to the housekeeper, there was a second person to help with the cleaning, a gardener for the huge yard (these three we paid for), a company provided car and driver and a nightguard. So if I needed to go somewhere and I could not schlep the kids along the housekeeper wathed them. A little later if DS1 and DS2 had conflicting schedules I would take one kid and take him and the driver would take the other one. Etc., etc., etc. so nothing to it. But if anyone tries to hold you to these ridiculous standard your answer should always be: sure so when are you providing me with xyz? Oh, you're not? Well then kindly STFU.
I don't think my kids would have made it to adulthood if anyone had expected me to do all this stuff by myself!!! This is just plain ridiculous. I think cael has the right (and attainable) answer: just stop caring what others want.
Early on (before we moved to the tropics) if someone didn't like the way my house looked I pointed them to where the cleaning supplies were. I worked too to a certain extend, since my sisters all liked to wash windows and they didn't have their own homes yet Now xH wanted me to do things his mom did which was much more work and I didn't want to. So I told him that he could (a) do it himself , (b) move back to mom, or (c ) put up with how I did things. His choices were always (a) or (c ) but decidedly leaning toward (c ).
Ok, I want your life!! That would be my former life you want. Now I have a once-a-month cleaning lady, which is quite enough for me at this time. Kids have long since flown the coop, sisters live on the other side of the world and have their own windows to wash, and H is now xH. All that said I think that the demands made on mothers today would require a support staff to do it the way society demands. And since society doesn't supply the staff it should go pound sand.
ETA: I have four sisters and my parents were responsible for that. Can't blame everything on society
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jun 12, 2017 23:37:23 GMT -5
Have you tried setting him up with something online like Khan academy? If he's self motivated that might be all he needs instead of personal instruction. He does Khan Academy off and on, but I hadn't thought of it as a regular thing. Good idea, I'll discuss with him tonight. Also look into AoPS artofproblemsolving.com/- they are not free as Khan, but from what I read - it's a pretty good math curriculum/program. I just got their 3rd grade stuff for my kid - they seem to be a few levels above "regular" grades.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jun 13, 2017 7:14:41 GMT -5
Watching Bad Moms in honor of this thread. I loved that movie because so much of it seemed so familiar... but I'm pretty sure if I just stopped doing everything at home and also quit working that I wouldn't somehow end up with a nice, hot boyfriend, cool car and running a new business.
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Deleted
Joined: Oct 15, 2024 5:23:58 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2017 7:23:10 GMT -5
You didn't find it totally realistic? lol. I believed it right up until hot boyfriend asked after mind blowing sex if he could please, uh, return to his previous activity...
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jun 13, 2017 7:32:44 GMT -5
New moms,you gotta stop playing. Focus on YOUR family and what works for you. If you are a high energy family who thrives with a lot of activities then great. If you have kids who are easily overwhelmed and stimulated then why are u running? One isnt right or wrong. Just stop doing all the things you do for someone else's approval. Make your own family.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Jun 13, 2017 8:48:58 GMT -5
Watching Bad Moms in honor of this thread. I love that movie. My mom bought it for me for Christmas. It's hilarious!
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
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Post by swamp on Jun 13, 2017 10:34:21 GMT -5
New moms,you gotta stop playing. Focus on YOUR family and what works for you. If you are a high energy family who thrives with a lot of activities then great. If you have kids who are easily overwhelmed and stimulated then why are u running? One isnt right or wrong. Just stop doing all the things you do for someone else's approval. Make your own family. I'm not new, but I have kids that will sit on their butts all day playing video games and playing with the iPads if they didn't have something to go to.
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swamp
Community Leader
THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
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Post by swamp on Jun 13, 2017 10:43:45 GMT -5
When I was in 4th grade, I wanted to play baseball. My parents got the info from the paper for me, gave me the money, and told me to go sign up.
The schedule was put on the fridge, and it was my job to keep track of when games are and get myself there on my bike. If the games were on the other side of town, I had to beg my brother to ride up with me, and I would go to my grandmother's afterwards and she would give me a ride home.
I think that would be considered child abuse now.
I think DD would be able to do that, if we lived within walking/biking distance of the fields, but there is no way DS could. I worry about him. He's spacy.
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Jun 13, 2017 11:43:45 GMT -5
I don't really get the impression that people are really judging moms for not meeting these high standards. What you listed are basically suggestions from a bunch of articles, not an expectation of what every mom is supposed to do. I could list off all the things dads are supposed to teach their kids and it would sound pretty overwhelming.
I think you can boil down a lot of those things to 1) Eating Healthy 2) Limit electronics. If you can do that, you're kinda hitting most of the bases because idle time will be filled in with more productive things.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Jun 13, 2017 11:47:43 GMT -5
When I was in 4th grade, I wanted to play baseball. My parents got the info from the paper for me, gave me the money, and told me to go sign up.
The schedule was put on the fridge, and it was my job to keep track of when games are and get myself there on my bike. If the games were on the other side of town, I had to beg my brother to ride up with me, and I would go to my grandmother's afterwards and she would give me a ride home.
I think that would be considered child abuse now.
I think DD would be able to do that, if we lived within walking/biking distance of the fields, but there is no way DS could. I worry about him. He's spacy. You bet. I have parents and in-laws completely uninterested in providing any kid of help and support. I mean literally any kind of support. I don't expect anything from them because they are supremely uninterested. To the point if we ask them to come visit the kids games there is a lot hemming and hawing, and if they do arrive they stay for like 30 min, sitting detached and supremely bored. Forget about providing rides or afternoon spent with grandparents. I don't begrudge either set of parents their freedom and life. But a "bit" of interest in my life and my kids life would bring a lot of joy. Oh well The involvement of family was also something the previous generation had going for them. Our generation not only has a LOT more to do, we have a LOT LESS support doing it all.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jun 13, 2017 11:52:56 GMT -5
New moms,you gotta stop playing. Focus on YOUR family and what works for you. If you are a high energy family who thrives with a lot of activities then great. If you have kids who are easily overwhelmed and stimulated then why are u running? One isnt right or wrong. Just stop doing all the things you do for someone else's approval. Make your own family. I'm not new, but I have kids that will sit on their butts all day playing video games and playing with the iPads if they didn't have something to go to.
Soo take the ipads and electronics away. They actually will survive.
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daisy
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Joined: Aug 24, 2013 0:43:49 GMT -5
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Post by daisy on Jun 13, 2017 11:57:40 GMT -5
I don't have kids, but I'll tell you about my childhood. I'm 59 so I'm sure some of you will relate:
1. We were told to play outside--not to come back in until lunch. I remember great times with neighborhood kids and sometimes just sitting out under a tree. 2. If we complained about being bored, we got chores (things my Mom was doing). You learned not say that! 3. We had weekly and daily chores. Had to be done before the fun things. If it wasn't up to standards, we did it again! 4. We watched TV (afternoon before dinner and Saturday mornings while our parents slept in a bit) 5. We all knew how to make our breakfast (cereal and milk) 6. We were expected to get up on our own before school, get dressed, etc. If we were late, it must be because we were "tired" so we went to bed an hour earlier that night. Didn't happen too many times!
I'm sure there are more I'm not remembering....
I wonder if we don't expect enough from today's kids? Mom's seem to do everything now. Although I do think kids have it tougher today, with less down time. Maybe there isn't time to do it the old ways.
Yep - 51 here and I agree with everything you posted!!! Bored was a 4 letter word for my working mom - it meant spending the ENTIRE day on Saturday with chores rather than just the morning. Mom started us doing smaller chores like dusting and washing dishes etc when we were young - she has a photo album with pics of us doing chores and at the time I was in 1st grade (oldest) so sibs were 4 and 5. By the time we were all in grade school - we were each assigned an entire room (LR, FR, DR) to pick up, dust, vacuum in addition to our bedrooms. This all happened on Saturday mornings and had to pass the 'white glove' test before we were allowed to head out for the day with friends. Slacking meant staying in until it was done right. TV time was at night for an hour or so, after all homework was done, and we three siblings had to agree completely on what to watch or no TV at all. Sunday was the day our parents slept in - until 10 or so when we all got ready for church so we could watch TV until then. Otherwise we were expected to 'have something to do' which meant plans with friends outside, riding out bikes to said friend's houses, playing games with each other, riding our bikes to softball/baseball practice, piano practice etc. I will add the caveat that we lived in 'Mayberry' - our town was a pretty small town in Northern Illinois and it was considered very safe (except for the time when I was maybe 12 or so when an older couple stopped me on the sidewalk and asked directions to the gas station that was literally on the main drag a block away and kept asking me to come closer to the car because they 'couldn't hear me'...so I ran in the opposite direction to a friend's house)...but I regularly rode my bike through town and out of town several miles to a friend's house as did my siblings when they wanted to hang out with kids who didn't live in town. Mom taught at the same school we attended until I was in 8th grade, the next year she found a job in Chicago and took the 0630 train so we were all responsible for getting up, showering, feeding ourselves and getting to school on time from that day on - we would have been 13, 11 and 10 at that point. No excuses were tolerated. My kids were raised pretty much the same way, in the same town, they are now 26 and 19 and understand that running a household is a FAMILY responsibility, not just mom or dad, even though I was a stay-at-home mom for most of their childhood. I wonder if we don't expect enough from today's kids? Mom's seem to do everything now. THIS!! Both of mine have said that their friends were 'spoiled' and didn't have to do the chores they did, have the responsibilities they did and they were right. I belonged to a mom's club when my youngest was small and the moms ALL talked about how terrible their childhoods were and how they weren't going to have the same expectations of their children as their parents had of them.....that was around 2002 and youngest grew up with all of those kids. Almost all of those kids have had different life experiences than my 19yo - she still kids me that she was the only one whose parents expected her to cook, clean and do her own laundry. But since she joined the National Guard, has a job and is going to school, we figure we did something right.
Although I do think kids have it tougher today, with less down time. I guess I get this based on kids being in daycare situations all day vs. being home. Although we were 'home alone' from 10, 11 & 13 on, with a list of things to accomplish after school/homework/extra-curriculars.
Maybe there isn't time to do it the old ways. Eh, both of my kids were involved in multiple extra-curricular events, tennis, soccer, ballet, dance, horse back riding lessons etc and it was a split as to whether they got themselves there or were driven based on parent's schedules or arranged their own carpool. The did have some AP classes too so I guess as far as less down time...maybe, but not much less than I had. They had lots of chores to do, their own laundry, making dinner, dishes afterwards etc.
Reading back, I suppose based on the freedoms kids have today that my childhood sounds 'harsh or extreme' but my parents divorced when I was 13 - mom went back to school so she worked downtown all day, came home and went to classes (no internet/online school stuff in the late 70's, early 80's). So she expected us to step up as members of the family - she put food on the table but we had to cook it. My parents were always planning excursions to Chicago for the museums, Art Institute etc - as well as LOADS of family get-togethers as my dad had a bazillion cousins with kids. We were plenty BUSY but there was still plenty of time for chores and friends. Caveat: TV time was VERY limited for us growing up - we were outside or busy with chores/homework etc. And no comps whatsoever until my brother was in HS and bought an Atari that we took turns playing PONG on, but that was severely limited too. No cable either til I was in HS. Boy was that the Dark Ages!!
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jun 13, 2017 11:59:16 GMT -5
When I was in 4th grade, I wanted to play baseball. My parents got the info from the paper for me, gave me the money, and told me to go sign up.
The schedule was put on the fridge, and it was my job to keep track of when games are and get myself there on my bike. If the games were on the other side of town, I had to beg my brother to ride up with me, and I would go to my grandmother's afterwards and she would give me a ride home.
I think that would be considered child abuse now.
I think DD would be able to do that, if we lived within walking/biking distance of the fields, but there is no way DS could. I worry about him. He's spacy. You bet. I have parents and in-laws completely uninterested in providing any kid of help and support. I mean literally any kind of support. I don't expect anything from them because they are supremely uninterested. To the point if we ask them to come visit the kids games there is a lot hemming and hawing, and if they do arrive they stay for like 30 min, sitting detached and supremely bored. Forget about providing rides or afternoon spent with grandparents. I don't begrudge either set of parents their freedom and life. But a "bit" of interest in my life and my kids life would bring a lot of joy. Oh well The involvement of family was also something the previous generation had going for them. Our generation not only has a LOT more to do, we have a LOT LESS support doing it all. I have a hard time not being jealous of those that have parents ready, willing, and able to help with their kids. I've got 1 MIL who will at least watch them a few hours a few times/year. She comes to some ball games now that the kids have them. That's not mostly about the kids, though, but in order to socialize/talk to her DS, and she enjoys watching b-ball anyhow. I'll take what I can get, though!
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Ryan
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 16, 2014 13:40:36 GMT -5
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Post by Ryan on Jun 13, 2017 15:09:58 GMT -5
I don't have kids, but I'll tell you about my childhood. I'm 59 so I'm sure some of you will relate:
1. We were told to play outside--not to come back in until lunch. I remember great times with neighborhood kids and sometimes just sitting out under a tree. 2. If we complained about being bored, we got chores (things my Mom was doing). You learned not say that! 3. We had weekly and daily chores. Had to be done before the fun things. If it wasn't up to standards, we did it again! 4. We watched TV (afternoon before dinner and Saturday mornings while our parents slept in a bit) 5. We all knew how to make our breakfast (cereal and milk) 6. We were expected to get up on our own before school, get dressed, etc. If we were late, it must be because we were "tired" so we went to bed an hour earlier that night. Didn't happen too many times!
I'm sure there are more I'm not remembering....
I wonder if we don't expect enough from today's kids? Mom's seem to do everything now. Although I do think kids have it tougher today, with less down time. Maybe there isn't time to do it the old ways.
Yep - 51 here and I agree with everything you posted!!! Bored was a 4 letter word for my working mom - it meant spending the ENTIRE day on Saturday with chores rather than just the morning. Mom started us doing smaller chores like dusting and washing dishes etc when we were young - she has a photo album with pics of us doing chores and at the time I was in 1st grade (oldest) so sibs were 4 and 5. By the time we were all in grade school - we were each assigned an entire room (LR, FR, DR) to pick up, dust, vacuum in addition to our bedrooms. This all happened on Saturday mornings and had to pass the 'white glove' test before we were allowed to head out for the day with friends. Slacking meant staying in until it was done right. TV time was at night for an hour or so, after all homework was done, and we three siblings had to agree completely on what to watch or no TV at all. Sunday was the day our parents slept in - until 10 or so when we all got ready for church so we could watch TV until then. Otherwise we were expected to 'have something to do' which meant plans with friends outside, riding out bikes to said friend's houses, playing games with each other, riding our bikes to softball/baseball practice, piano practice etc. I will add the caveat that we lived in 'Mayberry' - our town was a pretty small town in Northern Illinois and it was considered very safe (except for the time when I was maybe 12 or so when an older couple stopped me on the sidewalk and asked directions to the gas station that was literally on the main drag a block away and kept asking me to come closer to the car because they 'couldn't hear me'...so I ran in the opposite direction to a friend's house)...but I regularly rode my bike through town and out of town several miles to a friend's house as did my siblings when they wanted to hang out with kids who didn't live in town. Mom taught at the same school we attended until I was in 8th grade, the next year she found a job in Chicago and took the 0630 train so we were all responsible for getting up, showering, feeding ourselves and getting to school on time from that day on - we would have been 13, 11 and 10 at that point. No excuses were tolerated. My kids were raised pretty much the same way, in the same town, they are now 26 and 19 and understand that running a household is a FAMILY responsibility, not just mom or dad, even though I was a stay-at-home mom for most of their childhood. I wonder if we don't expect enough from today's kids? Mom's seem to do everything now. THIS!! Both of mine have said that their friends were 'spoiled' and didn't have to do the chores they did, have the responsibilities they did and they were right. I belonged to a mom's club when my youngest was small and the moms ALL talked about how terrible their childhoods were and how they weren't going to have the same expectations of their children as their parents had of them.....that was around 2002 and youngest grew up with all of those kids. Almost all of those kids have had different life experiences than my 19yo - she still kids me that she was the only one whose parents expected her to cook, clean and do her own laundry. But since she joined the National Guard, has a job and is going to school, we figure we did something right.
Although I do think kids have it tougher today, with less down time. I guess I get this based on kids being in daycare situations all day vs. being home. Although we were 'home alone' from 10, 11 & 13 on, with a list of things to accomplish after school/homework/extra-curriculars.
Maybe there isn't time to do it the old ways. Eh, both of my kids were involved in multiple extra-curricular events, tennis, soccer, ballet, dance, horse back riding lessons etc and it was a split as to whether they got themselves there or were driven based on parent's schedules or arranged their own carpool. The did have some AP classes too so I guess as far as less down time...maybe, but not much less than I had. They had lots of chores to do, their own laundry, making dinner, dishes afterwards etc.
Reading back, I suppose based on the freedoms kids have today that my childhood sounds 'harsh or extreme' but my parents divorced when I was 13 - mom went back to school so she worked downtown all day, came home and went to classes (no internet/online school stuff in the late 70's, early 80's). So she expected us to step up as members of the family - she put food on the table but we had to cook it. My parents were always planning excursions to Chicago for the museums, Art Institute etc - as well as LOADS of family get-togethers as my dad had a bazillion cousins with kids. We were plenty BUSY but there was still plenty of time for chores and friends. Caveat: TV time was VERY limited for us growing up - we were outside or busy with chores/homework etc. And no comps whatsoever until my brother was in HS and bought an Atari that we took turns playing PONG on, but that was severely limited too. No cable either til I was in HS. Boy was that the Dark Ages!!
I'm of the opinion that I'd rather have my kids focus on school, sports, and extra curricular while they are young rather than getting a job and doing a bunch of chores around the house. My rules are keep your room clean and clean up after yourself, but I'm not going to make them wash the windows or prepare dinner. Maybe it's because I grew up with my dad taking me to work (he owned a small business) and I feel like I just missed out a lot. I'd go 3 days a week during the summer when I was 10-16 years old and most Saturdays during the school year. If they were adamant about my future, they should've make me spend that time studying. The fact is that my dad was too cheap to pay for an employee to do the work, even though he was making good money at the time. My wife did not have summer jobs or many chores growing up, they just made her focus on schoolwork, sports, friends, etc. She had great summers of going up to their lake house and playing with friends. When it came time to work, she worked.
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gooddecisions
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:42:28 GMT -5
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Post by gooddecisions on Jun 13, 2017 15:54:17 GMT -5
Yep - 51 here and I agree with everything you posted!!! Bored was a 4 letter word for my working mom - it meant spending the ENTIRE day on Saturday with chores rather than just the morning. Mom started us doing smaller chores like dusting and washing dishes etc when we were young - she has a photo album with pics of us doing chores and at the time I was in 1st grade (oldest) so sibs were 4 and 5. By the time we were all in grade school - we were each assigned an entire room (LR, FR, DR) to pick up, dust, vacuum in addition to our bedrooms. This all happened on Saturday mornings and had to pass the 'white glove' test before we were allowed to head out for the day with friends. Slacking meant staying in until it was done right. TV time was at night for an hour or so, after all homework was done, and we three siblings had to agree completely on what to watch or no TV at all. Sunday was the day our parents slept in - until 10 or so when we all got ready for church so we could watch TV until then. Otherwise we were expected to 'have something to do' which meant plans with friends outside, riding out bikes to said friend's houses, playing games with each other, riding our bikes to softball/baseball practice, piano practice etc. I will add the caveat that we lived in 'Mayberry' - our town was a pretty small town in Northern Illinois and it was considered very safe (except for the time when I was maybe 12 or so when an older couple stopped me on the sidewalk and asked directions to the gas station that was literally on the main drag a block away and kept asking me to come closer to the car because they 'couldn't hear me'...so I ran in the opposite direction to a friend's house)...but I regularly rode my bike through town and out of town several miles to a friend's house as did my siblings when they wanted to hang out with kids who didn't live in town. Mom taught at the same school we attended until I was in 8th grade, the next year she found a job in Chicago and took the 0630 train so we were all responsible for getting up, showering, feeding ourselves and getting to school on time from that day on - we would have been 13, 11 and 10 at that point. No excuses were tolerated. My kids were raised pretty much the same way, in the same town, they are now 26 and 19 and understand that running a household is a FAMILY responsibility, not just mom or dad, even though I was a stay-at-home mom for most of their childhood. I wonder if we don't expect enough from today's kids? Mom's seem to do everything now. THIS!! Both of mine have said that their friends were 'spoiled' and didn't have to do the chores they did, have the responsibilities they did and they were right. I belonged to a mom's club when my youngest was small and the moms ALL talked about how terrible their childhoods were and how they weren't going to have the same expectations of their children as their parents had of them.....that was around 2002 and youngest grew up with all of those kids. Almost all of those kids have had different life experiences than my 19yo - she still kids me that she was the only one whose parents expected her to cook, clean and do her own laundry. But since she joined the National Guard, has a job and is going to school, we figure we did something right.
Although I do think kids have it tougher today, with less down time. I guess I get this based on kids being in daycare situations all day vs. being home. Although we were 'home alone' from 10, 11 & 13 on, with a list of things to accomplish after school/homework/extra-curriculars.
Maybe there isn't time to do it the old ways. Eh, both of my kids were involved in multiple extra-curricular events, tennis, soccer, ballet, dance, horse back riding lessons etc and it was a split as to whether they got themselves there or were driven based on parent's schedules or arranged their own carpool. The did have some AP classes too so I guess as far as less down time...maybe, but not much less than I had. They had lots of chores to do, their own laundry, making dinner, dishes afterwards etc.
Reading back, I suppose based on the freedoms kids have today that my childhood sounds 'harsh or extreme' but my parents divorced when I was 13 - mom went back to school so she worked downtown all day, came home and went to classes (no internet/online school stuff in the late 70's, early 80's). So she expected us to step up as members of the family - she put food on the table but we had to cook it. My parents were always planning excursions to Chicago for the museums, Art Institute etc - as well as LOADS of family get-togethers as my dad had a bazillion cousins with kids. We were plenty BUSY but there was still plenty of time for chores and friends. Caveat: TV time was VERY limited for us growing up - we were outside or busy with chores/homework etc. And no comps whatsoever until my brother was in HS and bought an Atari that we took turns playing PONG on, but that was severely limited too. No cable either til I was in HS. Boy was that the Dark Ages!!
I'm of the opinion that I'd rather have my kids focus on school, sports, and extra curricular while they are young rather than getting a job and doing a bunch of chores around the house. My rules are keep your room clean and clean up after yourself, but I'm not going to make them wash the windows or prepare dinner. Maybe it's because I grew up with my dad taking me to work (he owned a small business) and I feel like I just missed out a lot. I'd go 3 days a week during the summer when I was 10-16 years old and most Saturdays during the school year. If they were adamant about my future, they should've make me spend that time studying. The fact is that my dad was too cheap to pay for an employee to do the work, even though he was making good money at the time. My wife did not have summer jobs or many chores growing up, they just made her focus on schoolwork, sports, friends, etc. She had great summers of going up to their lake house and playing with friends. When it came time to work, she worked. Like you wife, my parents let me be a kid. As long as I made good grades and stayed out of trouble, I didn't have a lot of rules, chores or responsibilities. Somehow, I still grew up to be a fully functional adult who can keep a job, cook, clean, do laundry and pay bills. My parents even helped me through college and I still managed to launch. Not to veer off topic...
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daisy
Familiar Member
Joined: Aug 24, 2013 0:43:49 GMT -5
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Post by daisy on Jun 13, 2017 22:52:59 GMT -5
I'm of the opinion that I'd rather have my kids focus on school, sports, and extra curricular while they are young rather than getting a job and doing a bunch of chores around the house. My rules are keep your room clean and clean up after yourself, but I'm not going to make them wash the windows or prepare dinner. Maybe it's because I grew up with my dad taking me to work (he owned a small business) and I feel like I just missed out a lot. I'd go 3 days a week during the summer when I was 10-16 years old and most Saturdays during the school year. If they were adamant about my future, they should've make me spend that time studying. The fact is that my dad was too cheap to pay for an employee to do the work, even though he was making good money at the time. My wife did not have summer jobs or many chores growing up, they just made her focus on schoolwork, sports, friends, etc. She had great summers of going up to their lake house and playing with friends. When it came time to work, she worked. I guess I wasn't clear - schoolwork, extra curricular events, sports and friends, as well as summer jobs starting at age 14 were on par with chores for us growing up. I am the only person in my family without at least a Master's (bro is MChE (Chemical Engineer) , sis is a SAHM but with Master's in Blind Orientation and Mobility and worked for the VA). Dad was CPA, mom holds a M.Ed. along with multiple IT certifications and instructs (at age 74) at the college level. I am a MAJOR slacker with an AA (THANKS cancer) and then the inability to finish the BSN for which I was studying due to a TBI. Dang, that sounds like a whiner sentence!
So we were held to a VERY high standard re: schooling as well as participation in sports as well as being expected to contribute in a major way around the house AND earn our own spending money. And yet we spent lots of time in museums, traveling the US (historical sites mostly), going to Disney every year etc. So somehow my parents found a balance with ALL of their expectations. Maybe it's generational? Their parents did have similar expectations. There are times when I hated being so responsible, even now that I run my own business I am paralyzed at the thought of taking a sick day. DH just looks at me and says "For crying out loud, if being the CEO (haha) means ONE thing, it's that you can lie on the couch all day if you need to". Not true, but he's always telling me I work too hard.
I'm not trying to make it sound like my siblings and I had super powers or anything, it's just how we grew up. My mom NEVER carried us with respect to our contributions to the house. The expectations on her were to love us, hug us, help keep a roof over our heads, food on the table, remind us how smart we were (hah!) and tell us that, "if there's no bone sticking out of your leg/arm, you're fine, go play". Not the same as what seems to be the expectations of moms today.
You and your wife are obviously very successful in life and that means that it's likely that your kids will be as well - I don't imagine that not making them cook dinner will affect that......Although my brother always says that he scored lots of dates in college due to being able to make a mean pot roast!!
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 14, 2017 12:45:54 GMT -5
I came home yesterday and the kitchen was trashed. Every counter covered with dirty dishes or food or something. Not to mention lunch plates, soda cans and glasses covering the table.
First question out of their mouths "When is dinner?"
After you clean the f**king kitchen, a-holes!!
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jun 14, 2017 13:10:47 GMT -5
Oh man, I went to only the valentine's party this year, but there was a feast laid out before those 1st graders like I've never seen in school! And they barely cared/were just interested in playing. When I was a kid, if we got a cookie/cupcake and a little cup of juice, we were thrilled!
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Jun 14, 2017 13:12:21 GMT -5
I blame Martha Stewart. In my circle of friends, that's when people started trying to be "perfect".
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 14, 2017 13:13:33 GMT -5
You can't be pinterest perfect here . Due to allergies the school requires that any treats you bring in have to be store bought and come with the original packaging so in the event of an emergency they can communicate the ingredients. I suppose you could buy fancier cookies than the other mom but we still know you didn't make them yourself.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jun 14, 2017 13:26:58 GMT -5
You can't be pinterest perfect here . Due to allergies the school requires that any treats you bring in have to be store bought and come with the original packaging so in the event of an emergency they can communicate the ingredients. I suppose you could buy fancier cookies than the other mom but we still know you didn't make them yourself. We also have a health and wellness program at our school now, and they really frown on kids bringing sweet things to school for treats/parties, etc. DD1 had her check up today. They've really, really moved away from letting the kids drink anything beyond milk or water. Even 6 or 7 years ago, the peds were not this aggressive about empty calories and the like.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Jun 14, 2017 13:27:24 GMT -5
I swear pinterest has been the worst thing for feminism. My friend is organizing a class party and the other moms are driving her nuts. Everything has to be cut into a cute shape, sugar free, and camera worthy despite everyone having much better things to do with their time. If Pinterest had been there in the dark ages I would have been a major contributor to Pinterest FAILS!
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Poptart
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Post by Poptart on Jun 14, 2017 14:19:43 GMT -5
I am not married and don't have kids, I think about a month ago there was a discussion on the women and red section about how hard it is to have children and still continue to do the things you want to do, I got so depressed when I read about having to schedule sex, having to miss work when the kids get sick, etc.
I got depressed because if my boyfriend and I have kids we will have little to no support from our families, my mom passed away and I only have my sisters who are in their 20's and who I'm sure will be busy doing their own thing, so I can't count on them. My boyfriends parents have made it clear that they want to retire and move away from the area, and my boyfriend has two siblings but one lives out of state and the other keeps to himself. I don't know how we will deal with sick kids or who we will get any support from if/when we have kids.
We also live in an area where the cost of living is high, houses are going for $550,000+, I grew up poor and I refuse to have kids if I can't provide them with a good standard of living, I think we might be able to afford one kid and a cat.
I feel guilty for even thinking about not having kids based only on the fact that (A) I don't want to struggle with money and (B) I don't want to have to schedule sex! Am I a terrible woman?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 14, 2017 14:26:20 GMT -5
I am not married and don't have kids, I think about a month ago there was a discussion on the women and red section about how hard it is to have children and still continue to do the things you want to do, I got so depressed when I read about having to schedule sex, having to miss work when the kids get sick, etc. I got depressed because if my boyfriend and I have kids we will have little to no support from our families, my mom passed away and I only have my sisters who are in their 20's and who I'm sure will be busy doing their own thing, so I can't count on them. My boyfriends parents have made it clear that they want to retire and move away from the area, and my boyfriend has two siblings but one lives out of state and the other keeps to himself. I don't know how we will deal with sick kids or who we will get any support from if/when we have kids. We also live in an area where the cost of living is high, houses are going for $550,000+, I grew up poor and I refuse to have kids if I can't provide them with a good standard of living, I think we might be able to afford one kid and a cat. I feel guilty for even thinking about not having kids based only on the fact that (A) I don't want to struggle with money and (B) I don't want to have to schedule sex! Am I a terrible woman? Yes, but not wanting kids has nothing to do with it.
If you don't want to have kids, there is nothing wrong with that. Do what is right for you. But you'd be surprised once you have kids. You wonder what you did with your time and money before.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Jun 14, 2017 14:27:40 GMT -5
No, Poptart, you are NOT a terrible woman. I think you're smart to at least try & plan ahead. (If it's any consolation, DH & I didn't have our first child until we were in our 30's. We've had little support from our families in helping with the kids, in fact, I can count on one hand the times they stepped in to babysit the entire time our kids were growing up.)
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Jun 14, 2017 14:56:13 GMT -5
I am not married and don't have kids, I think about a month ago there was a discussion on the women and red section about how hard it is to have children and still continue to do the things you want to do, I got so depressed when I read about having to schedule sex, having to miss work when the kids get sick, etc. I got depressed because if my boyfriend and I have kids we will have little to no support from our families, my mom passed away and I only have my sisters who are in their 20's and who I'm sure will be busy doing their own thing, so I can't count on them. My boyfriends parents have made it clear that they want to retire and move away from the area, and my boyfriend has two siblings but one lives out of state and the other keeps to himself. I don't know how we will deal with sick kids or who we will get any support from if/when we have kids. We also live in an area where the cost of living is high, houses are going for $550,000+, I grew up poor and I refuse to have kids if I can't provide them with a good standard of living, I think we might be able to afford one kid and a cat. I feel guilty for even thinking about not having kids based only on the fact that (A) I don't want to struggle with money and (B) I don't want to have to schedule sex! Am I a terrible woman? No you are not a terrible woman. My son and soon to be wife came to me to ask if I would be upset if I would not be a grandmother since they not planning on having children. They had all the family support with both mothers and DIL's sister living here. Fast forward and DIL's sister had baby at 43 and guess who is the support system when she goes out of town, kiddo has school trip where mom can't go and on and on --- my son and DIL. They are the world's bestest aunt and uncle. Would I love a GK yes but I am the faux granny to the little one. Bottom line you do what is best for you. I made a concious decision to have just one and listened to all the nay Sayers about only child.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jun 14, 2017 15:10:47 GMT -5
I am not married and don't have kids, I think about a month ago there was a discussion on the women and red section about how hard it is to have children and still continue to do the things you want to do, I got so depressed when I read about having to schedule sex, having to miss work when the kids get sick, etc. I got depressed because if my boyfriend and I have kids we will have little to no support from our families, my mom passed away and I only have my sisters who are in their 20's and who I'm sure will be busy doing their own thing, so I can't count on them. My boyfriends parents have made it clear that they want to retire and move away from the area, and my boyfriend has two siblings but one lives out of state and the other keeps to himself. I don't know how we will deal with sick kids or who we will get any support from if/when we have kids. We also live in an area where the cost of living is high, houses are going for $550,000+, I grew up poor and I refuse to have kids if I can't provide them with a good standard of living, I think we might be able to afford one kid and a cat. I feel guilty for even thinking about not having kids based only on the fact that (A) I don't want to struggle with money and (B) I don't want to have to schedule sex! Am I a terrible woman? When we had our first, I knew more couples that were childless by choice than couples that had kids. I think having a kids is a "calling" for lack of a better word...just like everything else in life. It doesn't make one terrible. The problem is kids are a crap shoot. You don't know what you are going to get until it's too late and the kid is already here. I have three kids, and we average one sick kid visit a year. I've had friends whose kid was out of daycare more than in due to catching pink eye, fevers, every time it went around the daycare. My first two kids were/are a dream (for the most part). DH and I weren't sleep deprived. My first two were sleeping 12 hours straight between 10-12 weeks. We didn't have to make choices between sick kids or work after DH went to work part time. My first kid never went through the terrible 2s. The three's lasted 2.5 weeks. My second was never an issue either. Our mistake was in having our third. Apparently, lightening strikes twice...and only twice. My third child is the child that humbled me. As for scheduling sex...that rubs me the wrong way too..Physical intimacy ebbs and flows in a relationship. I don't know how long you've been together..DH and I have been together for 20 years now. Regardless of whether or not we have kids...things about him would still drive me crazy or make me want drop everything and go at it with him. You also can't take people's face value at being poor when they have kids. We've got family that likely gross 150K or more and remarked that 1200/month in daycare is something that was completely unaffordable for them. I complain about things being tight in the short term...but when you can have 4 kids and still retire at 55, worst case if I am pushed out of the workforce due to age,....well clearly we aren't poor. Don't think that I'm advocating for you to have kids. I'm not. Sometimes I think childless people are the smartest people on this earth. But just be aware...not everything is what it seems.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Jun 14, 2017 15:17:40 GMT -5
You are NOT terrible Poptart for not wanting to have children. You and your life partner - and you guys alone - get to decide what your life will look like, and everyone else gets to STFU about it
DH and I went into marriage ambivalent about children, and we put it off long enough that it didn't matter anymore. I think my biological clock ticked loudly for about 15 minutes in my early 20's then went away.
But looking back, I now "know" the reason we didn't have bios of our own. We ended up taking in and finish raising my deadbeat DB's two kids (they were teens when we got them). Or as the old saying goes: Man Plans and God Laughs.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 14, 2017 15:38:15 GMT -5
Yep - 51 here and I agree with everything you posted!!! Bored was a 4 letter word for my working mom - it meant spending the ENTIRE day on Saturday with chores rather than just the morning. Mom started us doing smaller chores like dusting and washing dishes etc when we were young - she has a photo album with pics of us doing chores and at the time I was in 1st grade (oldest) so sibs were 4 and 5. By the time we were all in grade school - we were each assigned an entire room (LR, FR, DR) to pick up, dust, vacuum in addition to our bedrooms. This all happened on Saturday mornings and had to pass the 'white glove' test before we were allowed to head out for the day with friends. Slacking meant staying in until it was done right. TV time was at night for an hour or so, after all homework was done, and we three siblings had to agree completely on what to watch or no TV at all. Sunday was the day our parents slept in - until 10 or so when we all got ready for church so we could watch TV until then. Otherwise we were expected to 'have something to do' which meant plans with friends outside, riding out bikes to said friend's houses, playing games with each other, riding our bikes to softball/baseball practice, piano practice etc. I will add the caveat that we lived in 'Mayberry' - our town was a pretty small town in Northern Illinois and it was considered very safe (except for the time when I was maybe 12 or so when an older couple stopped me on the sidewalk and asked directions to the gas station that was literally on the main drag a block away and kept asking me to come closer to the car because they 'couldn't hear me'...so I ran in the opposite direction to a friend's house)...but I regularly rode my bike through town and out of town several miles to a friend's house as did my siblings when they wanted to hang out with kids who didn't live in town. Mom taught at the same school we attended until I was in 8th grade, the next year she found a job in Chicago and took the 0630 train so we were all responsible for getting up, showering, feeding ourselves and getting to school on time from that day on - we would have been 13, 11 and 10 at that point. No excuses were tolerated. My kids were raised pretty much the same way, in the same town, they are now 26 and 19 and understand that running a household is a FAMILY responsibility, not just mom or dad, even though I was a stay-at-home mom for most of their childhood. I wonder if we don't expect enough from today's kids? Mom's seem to do everything now. THIS!! Both of mine have said that their friends were 'spoiled' and didn't have to do the chores they did, have the responsibilities they did and they were right. I belonged to a mom's club when my youngest was small and the moms ALL talked about how terrible their childhoods were and how they weren't going to have the same expectations of their children as their parents had of them.....that was around 2002 and youngest grew up with all of those kids. Almost all of those kids have had different life experiences than my 19yo - she still kids me that she was the only one whose parents expected her to cook, clean and do her own laundry. But since she joined the National Guard, has a job and is going to school, we figure we did something right.
Although I do think kids have it tougher today, with less down time. I guess I get this based on kids being in daycare situations all day vs. being home. Although we were 'home alone' from 10, 11 & 13 on, with a list of things to accomplish after school/homework/extra-curriculars.
Maybe there isn't time to do it the old ways. Eh, both of my kids were involved in multiple extra-curricular events, tennis, soccer, ballet, dance, horse back riding lessons etc and it was a split as to whether they got themselves there or were driven based on parent's schedules or arranged their own carpool. The did have some AP classes too so I guess as far as less down time...maybe, but not much less than I had. They had lots of chores to do, their own laundry, making dinner, dishes afterwards etc.
Reading back, I suppose based on the freedoms kids have today that my childhood sounds 'harsh or extreme' but my parents divorced when I was 13 - mom went back to school so she worked downtown all day, came home and went to classes (no internet/online school stuff in the late 70's, early 80's). So she expected us to step up as members of the family - she put food on the table but we had to cook it. My parents were always planning excursions to Chicago for the museums, Art Institute etc - as well as LOADS of family get-togethers as my dad had a bazillion cousins with kids. We were plenty BUSY but there was still plenty of time for chores and friends. Caveat: TV time was VERY limited for us growing up - we were outside or busy with chores/homework etc. And no comps whatsoever until my brother was in HS and bought an Atari that we took turns playing PONG on, but that was severely limited too. No cable either til I was in HS. Boy was that the Dark Ages!!
I'm of the opinion that I'd rather have my kids focus on school, sports, and extra curricular while they are young rather than getting a job and doing a bunch of chores around the house. My rules are keep your room clean and clean up after yourself, but I'm not going to make them wash the windows or prepare dinner. Maybe it's because I grew up with my dad taking me to work (he owned a small business) and I feel like I just missed out a lot. I'd go 3 days a week during the summer when I was 10-16 years old and most Saturdays during the school year. If they were adamant about my future, they should've make me spend that time studying. The fact is that my dad was too cheap to pay for an employee to do the work, even though he was making good money at the time. My wife did not have summer jobs or many chores growing up, they just made her focus on schoolwork, sports, friends, etc. She had great summers of going up to their lake house and playing with friends. When it came time to work, she worked. I had extra curriculars, a summer job, and did chores....and still had time to hang out with friends. I don't think I was robbed of a childhood.
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Poptart
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Post by Poptart on Jun 14, 2017 15:39:31 GMT -5
It's difficult, I don't want to base this decision on money alone but that's a major reason why I don't want kids now, and as I get older I feel like time is running out, things would be easier I think if I had my mom because I know I could have counted on her for childcare, I don't know how we will be able to afford rent and childcare along with other bills. I also spent my 20's helping to raise my two sisters, one of them has major health issues, so I also feel like I've done my time raising kids- but what if later in life I regret not having kids?
Also, we are already so tired now, I can't imagine how tired we would be with kids. Maybe a rich person can adopt us?
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