Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2011 20:18:24 GMT -5
"it's the expectation that we HAVE to pay just to have you that we have a problem with."
Paying does not let you "have me". It tells me you are seriously interested in having me and willing to put out effort on my behalf. Not paying tells me you aren't willing to put out effort on my behalf.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Mar 21, 2011 20:19:59 GMT -5
"No one appreciates anything or anyone that comes "easy." Or cheap. If you don't hold yourself of value, no one else will"
Exactly Zib. That's why I feel that my generosity should be repaid. Paying for more than three full dates shows that you don't value yourself because you're letting yourself being taken advantage of. I have this thing called self respect, and it makes me refuse to be walked over and taken advantage of. Paying for 9-10 dates without your partner even glacning at their checkbook shows they don't have respect for you.
Conversely, letting someone else pay your way all the time shows that you are allowing your self and your company to be bought for material wealth. That to me shows a disticnt lack of respect for youself. To me, that's no different than the mistresses of wealthy men who exchange sex for gifts. They are selling themselves for material goods. That shows a distinct lack of self respect. My self respect refuses to allow me to be bought just for a few free dinners. I want to contribute and do things for the other person.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Mar 21, 2011 20:23:42 GMT -5
"Paying does not let you "have me". It tells me you are seriously interested in having me and willing to put out effort on my behalf. Not paying tells me you aren't willing to put out effort on my behalf."
I think this bears repeating....
Not paying tells ME that YOU aren't willing to put in effort on MY behalf.
No offense LB, but all of your posts come accross as very selfish, this one included. You keep harping about you and what men are willing to do for you. That's why we (you and I) would never get along in a dating setting. You keep going into relationship with expectations about what you're getting out of it instead of what you can do for the other person who's company you (supposedly) enjoy.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Mar 21, 2011 20:24:58 GMT -5
Paying does not let you "have me".
But if he doesn't pay you won't date him anymore. Thus he "loses" you. You treat yourself like an object to be bought and then object when treated like a posession that is "owned."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2011 20:26:24 GMT -5
LOL phenoix we do agree that you and I would not get along dating.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Mar 21, 2011 20:30:01 GMT -5
"LOL phenoix we do agree that you and I would not get along dating" glad we're in agreement then . You would think I'm "not that into you" or I couldn't afford you, and I would think you're a selfish b****. If you can find men that enjoy shelling out boatloads of cash for the honor of your company then more power to you. It's just not my cup of tea and not what I'm looking for in a mate. Just don't complain when they feel like they've "bought" you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2011 20:33:54 GMT -5
"If you can find men that enjoy shelling out boatloads of cash for the honor of your company then more power to you." Ya, that's exactly how it is.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2011 20:36:21 GMT -5
"You treat yourself like an object to be bought and then object when treated like a posession that is "owned." "
No I don't. You are bringing that to the conversation. I gather some woman used you for free meals.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 21, 2011 20:42:12 GMT -5
We've all used a guy for free meals. Or car repairs, or whatever.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2011 20:47:06 GMT -5
Or car repairs, or whatever. That's a whole nother discussion
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2011 21:06:09 GMT -5
We've all used a guy for free meals. Or car repairs, or whatever. I actually haven't. I pretty much only let guys do stuff for me if I'd consider dating or sleeping with them.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 21, 2011 21:11:53 GMT -5
Yeah, that takes it a bit too far. No way would I just "use" a guy for that, it seems creepy and I think it would backfire on me. When I used to date, my first few dates were coffee dates because you can't get to know someone if your mouth is full of food. Plus, I bought my own coffee so if he was a jerk, I boogied real fast. The only date that ever ended badly for me, as in he didn't ask me out again, was one that I actually had a gift card to and so i offered to pay. He actually told me that was a real turn off to him. NEVER made that mistake again. I thought I was being nice and "modern" but wasted it on the wrong guy.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Mar 21, 2011 21:23:24 GMT -5
I'm like you zib! I never "used" guys to get meals. I only dated when I was seriously interested in a guy. Also, I never ordered lobster, steak, or anything expensive. A meal at a restaurant was just an opportunity to sit & talk. After a few dates you figured out if that guy was someone you wanted to continue dating, or not. You don't go on 10 dates with someone you could care less about (unless you're really shallow!)
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stats45
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Post by stats45 on Mar 21, 2011 21:31:04 GMT -5
The idea of dating as 'ritual' where the guy pays, the woman laughs at his jokes even though they aren't funny, the woman wears shoes she doesn't want to wear because she is supposed to, the guy pretends to like movies he doesn't really want to watch...just seems to be an exercise in style over substance.
One of the best parts about the modern world is the ability to write your own script. Rules are so 20th century.
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Elizabeth
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Post by Elizabeth on Mar 21, 2011 23:03:28 GMT -5
Maybe I have just dated weird men, but most of them have been insulted when I have offered to pay or split 50/50. But I have always dated older men, so maybe it's a generational thing? DH is almost 10 years older than me and 2 kids and 6.5 years later he still opens my doors most of the time, and orders what I want at restaurants. I don't really mind. If it makes him feel good than why not let him?
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Post by buzzy on Mar 22, 2011 5:24:53 GMT -5
OMG I can't believe it! I agree with SF on something The way I see it, if we want equal pay (and rightly so) for the same jobs, we can't then turn around and expect the man to pay for everything on a date.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2011 5:52:54 GMT -5
The idea of dating as 'ritual' where the guy pays, the woman laughs at his jokes even though they aren't funny, the woman wears shoes she doesn't want to wear because she is supposed to, the guy pretends to like movies he doesn't really want to watch...just seems to be an exercise in style over substance. One of the best parts about the modern world is the ability to write your own script. Rules are so 20th century.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Mar 22, 2011 9:02:04 GMT -5
I really hope you are joking, but if you are not, don't speak for all of us
Lena
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Mar 22, 2011 9:02:34 GMT -5
This message has been deleted.
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Post by illinicheme on Mar 22, 2011 9:35:10 GMT -5
DH is almost 10 years older than me and 2 kids and 6.5 years later he still opens my doors most of the time, and orders what I want at restaurants. I think that would drive me insane. Certainly the ordering for me in restaurants would. The door thing - I don't mind it being held for me when someone gets to it first, but I REALLY hate the awkward dance that some men do to make sure they let you go first. It's especially awkward in a business setting. (Happened to me twice yesterday, including one guy who was halfway through the door in front of me, saw that a different guy had backed up and gestured for me to enter and then backed up so I had to go in front of both guys. SO ANNOYING.)
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Mar 22, 2011 9:43:50 GMT -5
I would hope that him opening doors has nothing to do with his age, but his manners.
Ordering in a restaurant I don't get. What about it makes him feel good? Just curious
Lena
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 22, 2011 9:57:05 GMT -5
It is very old school to order for your date. I actually like it on rare occasions but DF thinks it's creepy although he would do it if I asked him to. He opens car doors for me now because his old GF said it made her feel second class. To me it says he is thinking of me. We open doors for each other, if his hands are full, I'm not standing on principal. It's whatever you are comfortable with each other that really counts. If you get out of the habit of doing the small things that make your partner feel cherished, then bigger things could follow. I watched it happen in too many marriages.
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Frappuccino
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Post by Frappuccino on Mar 22, 2011 11:19:39 GMT -5
We've all used a guy for free meals. Or car repairs, or whatever. Yikes!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 22, 2011 12:00:48 GMT -5
I know, that was a bit creepy.
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Agatha
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Post by Agatha on Mar 22, 2011 12:09:33 GMT -5
This thread is intriguing. I haven't dated in a coon's age, to quote my dear grandmother. But I can remember. I never demanded a guy I dated on a regular basis to pay for everything, every time. It just wasn't fair. OK, my late husband did but he was earning four times my salary and very old-fashioned.
When I finally started dating again I did expect a guy to pay. He did ask me out after all. If there was a second date it was generally a home-cooked meal at my home. Yes, I pulled out all the stops. After that it was between the two of us.
I always expected (still expect) a man to treat me with respect, not necessarily gallantry. Let me open my own door, unless you are there before me. Open the car door for me if we are formally dressed so I can enter gracefully in a long dress.
Order dinner for me? Only one man has ever done that. It was a joke and I'm the one who pulled it. The man who asked me out to dinner was someone I had known for over a year. He had actually dared me to date him. So after the waiter had given us our menus I put a wicked grin on my face and handed my menu to my date, saying, "I always wanted to do this. Order for me." It was fun watching the look on his face. But he rose to the occasion and , with great panache, ordered dinner. I'm not sure if that was the moment but, dear reader, I married him.
;D
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Elizabeth
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Post by Elizabeth on Mar 22, 2011 12:12:21 GMT -5
I would hope that him opening doors has nothing to do with his age, but his manners. Ordering in a restaurant I don't get. What about it makes him feel good? Just curious Lena Lena, I'm not positive, but I think he just feels like it's the gentlemanly thing to do. I always order the same thing though so it's pretty easy. And I do speak up if he does get it wrong.
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Post by illinicheme on Mar 22, 2011 12:24:38 GMT -5
What is one generation's "gentlemanly" is another generation's "patronizing"
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2011 12:27:16 GMT -5
"I never demanded a guy I dated on a regular basis to pay for everything, every time."
If you're dating on a regular basis you have moved beyond dating.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2011 12:28:54 GMT -5
The intent behind a man giving the message to the waiter of what the woman wants is the idea that both he and the waiter are there to serve the lady and see to her pleasure. Ya, I know some do it in a different way. But when the intent is good that is what it is.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 22, 2011 13:10:50 GMT -5
I really hope you are joking, but if you are not, don't speak for all of us Lena We've all done nasty, self centered and hurtful things, and I'll admit that when I was in my late teens, early 20's, I wasn't above working it to my advantage. I wouldn't do it now, because it's just not nice.
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