Dating and Money!

[Deleted]

Mar 21, 2011 13:53:16 GMT -5 The J said:

I don't expect him to pay because he's a guy. I expect him to pay to show he is interested in me. If he doesn't, or accepts my offer to pay, I take that as a clear "I'm not interested".

And yes, men very much notice if I am wearing stilletos.

Your expectation is that paying shows that he's interested in you BECAUSE HE'S A GUY. You can try to couch it any way you want, but it boils down to your idea that a guy can only show he's interested and that he appreciates you by paying.

I never said it is the only way. But it is one that is easily understood.

I do expect different behaviours from men and women. As I said way back, equal does not mean the same.

[Deleted]

"Course dear boyfriend became DH so I suppose my calculations weren't too far off."

Oh big deal, I've turned a few BF's into DH's. It's not that hard.

[Sum Dum Gai]

As I said way back, equal does not mean the same.

Exactly, it's just like all the other women's lib movements, like what a women gets paid for doing the same job as a man, how a woman should be treated in the workplace, college admissions, whether or not a woman should even be allowed to do certain jobs. In all those cases equal does not mean identical... oh wait.

Equal means equal. If you want to be treated equally, you lose some of the perks along with the crap. I'm not going out of my way to open doors for you, unless your arms are broken or something, I'll expect you to pull your weight in a relationship, I'm not paying for everything, I'm not your white knight here to protect you from all the evils of the world, you need to be capable of standing up for yourself to a certain extent. In exchange, I don't view you as a warm place to stick it that can cook and do laundry.

You're either my equal, which means acting like one, or you're weak and fragile and I have to take care of you in exchange for regular sex.

[Deleted]

Uh Dark, what does Loopy pay for? Is she your equal?

[Sum Dum Gai]

Loop doesn't pay right now, because I had better job prospects so I earn the money and she handles the household. I didn't expect that just because she had breasts though. If she got a job offer tomorrow paying about what I make and wanted to take it, I'd be at home with the kids right now. When the kids are a little older, she'll be working and we'll split the household stuff.

She absolutely is my equal. I can't respect a woman who honestly believes that her only contribution to the world is her vaginas ability to birth children and knowing how to make spaghetti.

[swamp]

Mar 21, 2011 13:51:37 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

...:::"I can pay for dinner. But it will be the last time we go out. To me that is a "he's just not that into you" message.":::...

In this modern gender confused day and age, I might seriously consider bluntly asking whether or not her paying half will result in disqualification. Of course anyone that expects a woman to say what she means and mean what she says is naive anyway.

Frankly, I'd find that refreshing. I don't play the dating games very well.

[Deleted]

"I can't respect a woman who honestly believes that her only contribution to the world is her vaginas ability to birth children and knowing how to make spaghetti."

Interestingly I can't birth children and my spaghetti is...ok, my spaghetti IS great. But it is not what I believe is my contribution to the world. We are talking about dating protocol here, not exactly earth shattering stuff. And it's simple. If the guy is interested he pays.

[illinicheme]

Mar 21, 2011 14:11:38 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

As I said way back, equal does not mean the same.

Exactly, it's just like all the other women's lib movements, like what a women gets paid for doing the same job as a man, how a woman should be treated in the workplace, college admissions, whether or not a woman should even be allowed to do certain jobs. In all those cases equal does not mean identical... oh wait.

Equal means equal. If you want to be treated equally, you lose some of the perks along with the crap. I'm not going out of my way to open doors for you, unless your arms are broken or something, I'll expect you to pull your weight in a relationship, I'm not paying for everything, I'm not your white knight here to protect you from all the evils of the world, you need to be capable of standing up for yourself to a certain extent. In exchange, I don't view you as a warm place to stick it that can cook and do laundry.

You're either my equal, which means acting like one, or you're weak and fragile and I have to take care of you in exchange for regular sex.

[illinicheme]

Mar 21, 2011 13:58:00 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Better communicators my ass.

LOL!

My wife and I both annoy each other with I don't care sometimes. One of us will ask where the other one wants to go for dinner and the other one will say they don't care. So you pick a place and they go, "no I don't want that." You pick another place, "no I'm not in the mood for that." You pick another place and they go, "eh... I guess..." Right about here is when the person who asked originally starts to lose it. If you really don't care, fine, I'll pick. If you do care, just freaking say so.

However, I really can't get mad about it, because I do it too.

We have that problem from time to time. I chalk it up to when you first say "I don't care" you really don't, but once suggestions start getting thrown out, you have a concrete thing to from an opinion on.

I've tried to start saying "I can't think of anything that sounds good right now" to be slightly more accurate than "I don't care" but it doesn't really help the back and forth that much! (Actually, in our case, I usually have to say "anywhere but In-n-Out" because if DH had his way, we'd eat three meals a day there!)

[Sum Dum Gai]

You asked whether or not I thought my wife was my equal. I was just answering your question. I wouldn't have married somebody I didn't respect, and I can't respect a woman with antiquated views on femininity.

Dating wise, I have no problem with whoever asks footing the bill. For a first date. Even the first few dates. If the person who was asked doesn't at least offer to pay half or something I'd probably think they were cheap. After the third date, if she's still expecting him to pay for everything just because she's a girl, she's either cheap, or a fifties throw back. Neither are qualities that I really look for in women. Yanno?

[The J]

Mar 21, 2011 14:00:04 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

I never said it is the only way. But it is one that is easily understood.

I do expect different behaviours from men and women. As I said way back, equal does not mean the same.

Wait...you've said that if he doesn't pay he's not interested. Now you're saying that it doesn't necessarily mean that he's not interested?

[Deleted]

"After the third date, if she's still expecting him to pay for everything just because she's a girl, she's either cheap, or a fifties throw back."

By then we are on to more interesting things than dinner. Most likely they don't cost much or anything. I am a single woman supporting myself and my interests. I have nothing to prove on being equal.

[Deleted]

Mar 21, 2011 14:35:41 GMT -5 The J said:

Mar 21, 2011 14:00:04 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

I never said it is the only way. But it is one that is easily understood.

I do expect different behaviours from men and women. As I said way back, equal does not mean the same.

Wait...you've said that if he doesn't pay he's not interested. Now you're saying that it doesn't necessarily mean that he's not interested?

No, I said he can do MORE than just pay for dinner if he likes

[jarhead1976]

The worse thing any man can do is underestimate a woman . Ill take that 50s throw back every time. She is Aggressive, Determined, Intelligent and Independent . That is attractive to me. Worth a meal every time.

[Deleted]

jarhead

[Sum Dum Gai]

Wait, what? A fifties throw back is demure, passive, defers to her husband on everything, doesn't want to be independent, has been dreaming of her wedding day since she was six, and her only goal in life is to be a great stay at home mom. She's basically the exact stereotype that women have been fighting for decades.

That's what I mean when I use the phrase anyway.

[jarhead1976]

Not the woman I know!

[Deleted]

Mar 21, 2011 14:46:30 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Wait, what? A fifties throw back is demure, passive, defers to her husband on everything, doesn't want to be independent, has been dreaming of her wedding day since she was six, and her only goal in life is to be a great stay at home mom. She's basically the exact stereotype that women have been fighting for decades.

That's what I mean when I use the phrase anyway.

That is a myth! WWII was in the 40's and women were running the factories then. Women were never like that.

[Sum Dum Gai]

Women were never like that.

Are you kidding? I've known women like that. Hell, there are women in my family that are only working until their husband comes along to take care of them. It's not my cup of tea, but there definitely are women out there that still think like that.

I'm sure that not all housewives in the fifties thought like that though. I'm pretty sure the figure of speech comes more from TV than anything. You never see June Cleaver lamenting her lost dream to be an architect or anything do you? The fifties TV housewives were all perfectly happy to be barefoot and in the kitchen while the man provided everything.

[hoops902]

"And it's simple. If the guy is interested he pays. "

If the woman is interested in anything more than getting some free stuff out of it, she doesn't expect him the pay.

So if you're sure the guys you date don't have a problem with it, and you're still single...how do you know that's not exactly the issue they have a problem with? I don't know many guys who wanna date a woman who thinks the guys contribution is giving her a free meal and her contribution is gracing him with her presence.

[Deleted]

Well I don't. For me the guy paying is a show of interest. I guess it's a bit of a means test. If paying a dinner bill stresses him financially we aren't well suited.

[Deleted]

Mar 21, 2011 14:54:40 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

So if you're sure the guys you date don't have a problem with it, and you're still single...how do you know that's not exactly the issue they have a problem with? I don't know many guys who wanna date a woman who thinks the guys contribution is giving her a free meal and her contribution is gracing him with her presence.

Just to get it out of the way, I'm single by my choice.

It's a big leap to say my contribution is gracing him with my presence...though that should be plenty. I'm a good dating partner, what can I say *shrug*

[The J]

No, I said he can do MORE than just pay for dinner if he likes

In other words because he's a guy, he HAS to pay for dinner to show he's interested in you. Therefore, you expect it because he's a guy.

That is a myth! WWII was in the 40's and women were running the factories then.

Because the menfolk were off to war. When the war ended, the men came back to the factories and the women came back to the kitchen.

[jarhead1976]

This message has been deleted.

[jarhead1976]

This message has been deleted.

[jarhead1976]

Dark Honor says " There are plenty of women out there that think like that..." You are right dark. Yet that door swings both ways. Men can look for women that are very rich. A Decent looking man can go just as far as any pretty woman when it comes to choosing a mate!

[hoops902]

Mar 21, 2011 14:56:27 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

Well I don't. For me the guy paying is a show of interest. I guess it's a bit of a means test. If paying a dinner bill stresses him financially we aren't well suited.

Have you considered that from the guy's perspective, your expectation that he pay simply because he's the guy is a means test also? He's testing whether you're interested in him or in a free meal.

Likewise the issue of whether it is a financial means test or a gauge of his interest are 2 different things. It doesn't make him interested if he would like to split the tab but feels pressured into paying due to your expectations. Paying due to some reason other than interest kind of negates the whole idea of seeing if he's interested.

I'm not really sure where the whole financial means testing comes into play in reality. There are a lot of people, men and women, who have the funds to go out and pay for 2 dinners multiple times a week without ever feeling a financial pinch. That doesn't mean they find the expectation that they pay due to gender acceptable.

[Deleted]

"Now I ain't sayin' she a gold digger...."

[zibazinski]

Why not? I was obviously dating a golddigger before DF. He actually got her to sneak off to the courthouse and get married without telling anyone who might clue her in that he was a financial train wreck. I feel sorry for her when she finds out about his IRS issues and back child support issues. Plenty will accuse me of being a golddigger because DF has a LOT more money that I do. I'm glad he does because it will provide for him in sickness so that I don't have to stress about that as well as him being sick.

[Sum Dum Gai]

"Now I ain't sayin' she a gold digger...."

LMAO!!!