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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Mar 21, 2011 10:35:43 GMT -5
I agree with you LB..... Paying for dates is a man's way and if he doesn't appreciate me then we won't be going out.!!!!!
That works if you desire to turn the clocks back 60 years.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 21, 2011 11:25:52 GMT -5
I buy the groceries and enough for the week. If DF wants to eat out, he pays for it because that is not in my budget. But I ALWAYS say "thank you" when we do go out and he pays and I am super appreciative of all he does for me and I let him know it. I don't just "expect" him to take me out and pay. He likes to.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2011 11:34:02 GMT -5
I'm curious how you show that you appreciate him then. Is it simply gracing him with your presence? You'd think that would be enough wouldn't you? But actually I do more. Taking extra care with my appearance and wearing those stilettos guys like so much but kill my feet. Thoughtful gifts based on things he has indicated he likes. Laughing at his jokes no matter how bad they are. There are lots of ways.
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The J
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Post by The J on Mar 21, 2011 12:04:32 GMT -5
I'm curious how you show that you appreciate him then. Is it simply gracing him with your presence? You'd think that would be enough wouldn't you? But actually I do more. Taking extra care with my appearance and wearing those stilettos guys like so much but kill my feet. Thoughtful gifts based on things he has indicated he likes. Laughing at his jokes no matter how bad they are. There are lots of ways. So if he took no care with his appearance, wore dirty and tattered clothing because it was comfortable, never got you a gift and told you when you weren't being funny, it would be ok because he was buying you dinner? Or is he expected to do all those things too?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2011 12:18:06 GMT -5
When he wears heels we'll talk.
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The J
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Post by The J on Mar 21, 2011 12:21:13 GMT -5
When he wears heels we'll talk. So if he told you he didn't like heels, you'd be willing to pay for dinner?
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Mar 21, 2011 12:21:22 GMT -5
"You'd think that would be enough wouldn't you? But actually I do more. Taking extra care with my appearance and wearing those stilettos guys like so much but kill my feet. Thoughtful gifts based on things he has indicated he likes. Laughing at his jokes no matter how bad they are. There are lots of ways. "
So you don't expect the guy you're going out with to dress nicely or laugh at your jokes? You're unconcerned with his looks or personality and only with the fact that he pays for your food? I think there's a word for that.
The problem with your logic is that all the things you named that you do in return for him paying are things that nearly everyone expects a date to do whether they are paying or not. I hardly think your honest expectation is that your date show up in filthy, ill-fitting clothing...sitting stone-faced as you make jokes and all around acting like a terrible date just because he's footing the bill.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Mar 21, 2011 12:23:12 GMT -5
"When he wears heels we'll talk."
So now we're down to "he should pay because I'm wearing heels"? Makes perfect sense
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Mar 21, 2011 12:23:32 GMT -5
I'm curious how you show that you appreciate him then. Is it simply gracing him with your presence? You'd think that would be enough wouldn't you? But actually I do more. Taking extra care with my appearance and wearing those stilettos guys like so much but kill my feet. Thoughtful gifts based on things he has indicated he likes. Laughing at his jokes no matter how bad they are. There are lots of ways. Hey, laughing at the stupid jokes is payment for the guys having to pretend they care whatever the ladies are talking about (without end)
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 21, 2011 12:24:50 GMT -5
Interesting how this topic brings out the feelings in some posters.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2011 12:26:15 GMT -5
I don't do it in return for him paying. I do it to show I value him. He pays to show he values me. Women put out more effort in clothing, make up etc and the emotional things and men tend to do it materially.
I can pay for dinner. But it will be the last time we go out. To me that is a "he's just not that into you" message.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2011 12:27:06 GMT -5
"When he wears heels we'll talk." So now we're down to "he should pay because I'm wearing heels"? Makes perfect sense Pay attention. We are talking about effort. What do you wear to look good for your wife that is uncomfortable?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2011 12:29:02 GMT -5
Hey, laughing at the stupid jokes is payment for the guys having to pretend they care whatever the ladies are talking about (without end) Hey, I wasn't born last night. You pretend to care to trick us into bed!
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Mar 21, 2011 12:29:48 GMT -5
"I don't do it in return for him paying. I do it to show I value him. He pays to show he values me."
So what made you determine that you get to decide both how you show him value and how he shows you value? Maybe he wants to show that he values you in other ways. Or maybe he wants you to show that you value him in other ways. What makes you determine that as the female you are in charge of deciding for both people?
I do think you have a legit point with the "this is how we show we value each other"...with the exception of the fact that you seem to think you're in charge of determining both methods of showing value.
"I can pay for dinner. But it will be the last time we go out. To me that is a "he's just not that into you" message. "
That has all the value of "well she didn't put out, so I won't be calling her again". It's piggish no matter which sex does it.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Mar 21, 2011 12:30:52 GMT -5
"When he wears heels we'll talk." So now we're down to "he should pay because I'm wearing heels"? Makes perfect sense Pay attention. We are talking about effort. What do you wear to look good for your wife that is uncomfortable? A tie, and condoms. Though I'm not speaking of "wife" since the whole "we wont' go out again" doesn't really apply in that situation most likely.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2011 12:32:10 GMT -5
I didn't set the standard. It is an accept societal norm. I don't feel a need to fight it. He can show he values me in as many ways as he wants. But to ignore the norms to make some kind of point makes dating him way too much drama.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Mar 21, 2011 12:33:13 GMT -5
I didn't set the standard. It is an accept societal norm. I don't feel a need to fight it. He can show he values me in as many ways as he wants. But to ignore the norms to make some kind of point makes dating him way too much drama. It's an acceptable societal norm that the woman puts when a man buys her dinner. Do you accept that one too? Or only the ones which benefit you?
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Mar 21, 2011 12:34:31 GMT -5
Women put out more effort in clothing, make up etc and the emotional things and men tend to do it materially. Oh noes... you have to play dress up. The inhumanity of it all. Try shaving your own back and then we'll talk. As a matter of fact, let's just look at hair in general. How often do you have to trim your nose hair? Tweeze your ears? Wax your chest? Oh, but you have to put on some lipstick and foundation... yeah, that sounds horrid.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2011 12:34:32 GMT -5
"It's an acceptable societal norm that the woman puts when a man buys her dinner. Do you accept that one too? Or only the ones which benefit you?"
No it's not. It hasn't been since women got the vote.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Mar 21, 2011 12:36:15 GMT -5
"It's an acceptable societal norm that the woman puts when a man buys her dinner. Do you accept that one too? Or only the ones which benefit you?" No it's not. It hasn't been since women got the vote. Neither has the idea of a man paying for the dates. But you seem to be clinging to 1/2 the formula.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2011 12:36:18 GMT -5
Try shaving your own back and then we'll talk. As a matter of fact, let's just look at hair in general. How often do you have to trim your nose hair? Tweeze your ears? Wax your chest? Oh, but you have to put on some lipstick and foundation... yeah, that sounds horrid. Ya I'd end up paying for that dinner
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Post by illinicheme on Mar 21, 2011 12:36:28 GMT -5
I didn't set the standard. It is an accept societal norm. I don't feel a need to fight it. He can show he values me in as many ways as he wants. But to ignore the norms to make some kind of point makes dating him way too much drama. Meh. I think it's worthwhile to fight the norms. If none of my predecessor's had fought the norms, I wouldn't be able to pursue my career as an engineer as successfully as I have. Besides, I can only do what feels right in my gut, and letting a guy pay all the time makes me uncomfortable. I'm much happier alternating (or splitting) any dating expenses. The numbers don't have to match exactly if the folks don't have equal means, but I think "the guy pays 100% of the time" is outdated at this point. ETA: Of course, I don't wear make-up, and I don't remember what I wore to my first date with my DH, but it definitely wasn't heels. I've never worn stilettos. (Practical heels only for me, and only when absolutely necessary!)
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Mar 21, 2011 12:36:42 GMT -5
You'd think that would be enough wouldn't you? But actually I do more. Taking extra care with my appearance and wearing those stilettos guys like so much but kill my feet. Thoughtful gifts based on things he has indicated he likes. Laughing at his jokes no matter how bad they are. There are lots of ways. You know, not all men like stilettos, right? Why would you laugh at jokes when they aren't funny? Cripes, I won't even do that with my kids. I don't like artificial ego stroking, period. I also don't get how someone is supposed to appreciate you during the superficial crap of first dating anyway. To me, appreciation comes with some sort of emotional intimacy, which doesn't generally happen in the beginning of the relationship. I dunno. I guess I'm grateful even more now for being married to my husband. Course, we were broke in college, so I didn't "expect" him to shell out 50-100 for each date. We seemed to enjoy each others company no matter what we did, and for us, that was good enough.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Mar 21, 2011 12:37:52 GMT -5
"Why would you laugh at jokes when they aren't funny? Cripes, I won't even do that with my kids. I don't like artificial ego stroking, period."
How else do you earn your free dinners?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2011 12:37:56 GMT -5
Neither has the idea of a man paying for the dates. But you seem to be clinging to 1/2 the formula. It's funny, my actual dates don't have the problem with this that people on this board do.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2011 12:40:09 GMT -5
"Why would you laugh at jokes when they aren't funny? Cripes, I won't even do that with my kids. I don't like artificial ego stroking, period." How else do you earn your free dinners? We covered that. Just the pleasure of my company. The rest is just my generosity.
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Post by jarhead1976 on Mar 21, 2011 12:42:37 GMT -5
If Men ask women out he should pay. If woman ask man out he should pay unless she offers. Even then I would be hesitant to let her pay. Its that Gentleman thing.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Mar 21, 2011 12:43:23 GMT -5
Neither has the idea of a man paying for the dates. But you seem to be clinging to 1/2 the formula. It's funny, my actual dates don't have the problem with this that people on this board do. Really? What makes you think they'd tell you if they did? Or maybe some of us are a bit more evolved in terms of equality than the guys you date.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Mar 21, 2011 12:43:39 GMT -5
You know, not all men like stilettos, right? Whoa, let's not get crazy. It's funny, my actual dates don't have the problem with this that people on this board do. Are we talking the first couple dates, or the 15th? I think anyone who asks somebody out, man or woman, should expect to cover at least that first date. After a while though if the other person doesn't at least offer to split the cost I'd tend to think they're really cheap.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Mar 21, 2011 12:44:37 GMT -5
If Men ask women out he should pay. If woman ask man out he should pay unless she offers. Even then I would be hesitant to let her pay. Its that Gentleman thing. Agreed, and after he pays the woman should put out, that's the womanly thing.
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