milee
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Post by milee on Sept 5, 2016 12:27:16 GMT -5
It's kind of a paradox though - if both are working - and one person is doing 80% of household/childcare and the other 20% - it really is totally unfair. And yet - I can tell you that adding that extra 20% onto the 80% increases sheer work and the stress exponentially. For example - the poster who is striking because the H never cooks. Somewhere in the thread she mentions he always does the clean up. To me, that would heaven! I'd think it was a good deal. You're right, as a single parent doing 100% of all the household and $$$ work, you bear 100% of the burden and that's more than those who have a partner that does even a little bit. It is a huge job and you deserve respect for it. Hopefully your kids appreciate what you do. I can't speak for that other poster who's striking, but as someone who has issues with division of labor at home, I think the issue is that it grates to feel like an unappreciated slave in your own home. Yes, it is helpful that the husband cleans up after she cooks and that contribution should be recognized because otherwise as a single parent she would be doing that, too. But it doesn't make for a happy situation to be the one always running around like a maid while the rest of the family watches TV, sleeps or makes messes in the rest of the house and it's reasonable to be unhappy about that dynamic rather than just accepting that a 5 minute contribution from the "partner" is better than no contribution at all. I agree the breadwinning/"work" stuff is a lot easier and more enjoyable than the never ending home drudgery stuff, but that probably varies widely by individual. That's part of what sucks about rigid, predefined gender roles. If you happen to fit into the role and have the same preferences that society believes you should have, it works fine. If you're one of the unfortunate people who enjoys things that society thinks should be reserved for the other gender... the path can be tougher.
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vonna
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Post by vonna on Sept 5, 2016 13:06:11 GMT -5
The more I read these SAHM threads, the more I am convinced we are simply a product of our own experience!! First of all, "open letters" almost always can be easily criticized because someone chooses to share their personal experience/feelings with the world. If I chose to write an open letter to my DH, I'm sure many would have a heyday making fun of it. That is one reason why I choose to show my appreciation to him privately . So, the personal experience I can bring to this thread is that I have been a working single, working spouse, working married mom, working single mom, working married mom again, SAH (retired) mom and spouse, and now a SAH mom with a SAH spouse (both of us are retired, youngest is 10). For me, nothing was worse than a bad marriage! My single mom years were awesome (for me). Yes, all the responsibility was mine and at times things were incredibly stressful, but I was comfortable relying on myself, and my first marriage had been so bad, that I expect that shaped my perspective. DH and I did come close to divorce a few years into our marriage, but luckily were able to repair and strengthen our marriage. Several years later, he shared with me one of the reasons he knew he needed to get his act together was that he was aware of the fact that I was happy as a single person and single parent. I am a happily married mom of two, but if that married part changed, I know that after an adjustment period I would be a happily single mom again. I suppose not just any man could put up with that, but I am happy DH accepts it, because I love having him as a part of my life!
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Sept 5, 2016 13:28:59 GMT -5
Well, I am the poster who is on a cooking strike. I have mentioned on this forum a lot of times in the past, and will continue to do so that me and DH are equal partners in most everything except cooking. He cleans up all the time, laundry is 50/50, childcare is mostly 50/50 depending on who has more free time any given week and so on and so forth. Heck, I leave the kids and go in business trips without so much as a glance because I know he will do whatever needs to be done, he is that good of a partner and father! In my particular instance at this time, it's me telling him for a few weeks now that I feel burned out and him not responding ir taking any care about it. Why didn't he? Well that's what we discussed yesterday to great success and he readily admitted he was at fault. He has lot of responsibilities at work and amidst all of that he put this on the back burner without realizing how tired I am. He explained and I understood and we came up with a plan to fix things. But that's the beauty of a equal partnership household. The couple tries to achieve an equilibrium and when that's threatened ( we all make mistakes ) things get readjusted to achieve that equilibrium again. I, for my part, an immensely glad to be born in this age and era, and even gladder I found a guy who never even once thinks that he should "contribute" or not, he just does it. Except in cooking And I am trying to fix that!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2016 14:39:11 GMT -5
swasat, I am happy that you found this partner. I'm sure you'll enjoy clean up more than cooking.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Sept 5, 2016 21:53:34 GMT -5
This is always an interesting topic. The dynamic can certainly work and be win/win. As has been said several times, one party doesn't have to deal with the stress and drudgery of daily commutes and slaving in the office. In exchange, the one who does, gets to come home to a clean house, and evening times can be used to relax instead of to tend to all those things that a household needs.
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siralynn
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Post by siralynn on Sept 6, 2016 5:15:40 GMT -5
I didn't realize until I read a certain obituary yesterday, but Suzanne Venker is Phyllis Schafly's niece. That explains a lot. Continuing the family tradition of building a career out of criticizing other women for having careers.
Ultimately we're all better off when families have the opportunity and flexibility to come up with divisions of labor that work for them.
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kittensaver
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We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
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Post by kittensaver on Sept 6, 2016 9:14:25 GMT -5
I didn't realize until I read a certain obituary yesterday, but Suzanne Venker is Phyllis Schafly's niece. That explains a lot. Continuing the family tradition of building a career out of criticizing other women for having careers. Ultimately we're all better off when families have the opportunity and flexibility to come up with divisions of labor that work for them. Amen a thousand times over. Thanks for saying this. It's about who is best suited to do what, regardless of the genitals they possess, and about working cooperatively so that one partner doesn't feel like a drudge to the other (or to their family).
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Sept 6, 2016 12:47:31 GMT -5
I was a SAHP for about five years. It came about because I lost my job for being pregnant. That was legal back in 1976 although I did qualify for unemployment. No one else wanted to hire a pregnant teacher either. I started graduate school to renew my teaching certificate when my younger child was three. I worked on-campus just enough to pay for child care. I worked part-time after that for the next seven years. Some of that time I had fellowships that didn't require I work at all. And some of that time I dropped out of graduate school at my husband's request to teach full-time. I would never have written him a thank-you note for "letting" me be a SAHP. We had our roles. He was the breadwinner. I was the housekeeper, childcare provider, etc. His clothes never went to the cleaners; I ironed them. When I tried to work full-time at his behest, I still had to do everything I did before. I didn't get my PhD for a variety of reasons, but one of them was the conflict we had about it. I'm guessing the last thirty years or so has improved those roles. Your husbands are now providing half he child-care, cleaning, etc. That doesn't happen at my adult kids' houses. My daughter works part-time. My son's wife is another SAHP. If it hasn't improved, you've gotten the wrong end of the stick. It wasn't that the 50s and 60s were so great. But women weren't expected to do it all. A commercial in the 1970s, I think, mentioned bringing home the bacon and frying it in the pan. Why should we be excited about doing it all? That just sounds exhausting to me. I do believe that women should be able to support themselves. That is why my daughter works part-time even though she has five kids. She keeps her credentials as a working pharmacist. The money is worth it. Just my two cents. Don't flame me too much. why expect flame? We've come a long way baby, but not nearly far enough. As a single parent - I did it all, all the time, year after year. Breadwinner, cooking and cleaning, plus bill paying, taking care of the car, yard work, painting inside and out, laundry, the list is endless really. It's a bit astonishing the amount of pure "work" I do in any given week - and still - it is never enough. Never. I no longer have child care concerns, and haven't for a while. plus - I have a weekly cleaner. Sometimes, I still can't even imagine getting through half of my todo list. It's kind of a paradox though - if both are working - and one person is doing 80% of household/childcare and the other 20% - it really is totally unfair. And yet - I can tell you that adding that extra 20% onto the 80% increases sheer work and the stress exponentially. For example - the poster who is striking because the H never cooks. Somewhere in the thread she mentions he always does the clean up. To me, that would heaven! I'd think it was a good deal. On the other parts - doing the breadwinning is the easy part. I feel I can say this as I have done both for 20+ years without respite. This includes service industry (waitressing, bar tending, counter sales) as well as various levels of professional work. The unending drudgery of cleaning, laundry, shopping, cooking, etc. etc. it just never ends. What's that old saw? A man's work is from sun to sun but a woman's work is never done? I think of the "old golden days" of 50's housewifery as nothing more than a complete scam whereby men acted like work was so darned difficult that they needed to be met at the door with a martini and ready meal - to sit in their chair and read the paper while the wife did the dishes and cleaned up the kitchen and got the children to bed. That's why I find this letter so false - it is really perpetrating that 'myth' that the breadwinning is the hard, soul sucking, part of the equation. And it is a wonderful generous "gift" for someone to be able to grocery shop on wednesday afternoon . I'm also a single mom now and have to do it all. I can tell you that if I could choose between staying home and doing everything related to the kids and the house or working and having someone else do all of that, I would totally choose staying home and taking care of my kids and house.
Maybe it is just semantics, but I see nothing wrong with something that their spouse for letting them not work outside the house. Because to me, that isn't a given. If I want to stay home but my husband wants me to work, I have no choice but to work. I am not owed someone to financially support me. As I have done it all, from staying home with little ones, being part of a working couple with kids and now a single, working mom, I can tell you the easiest time I had with the least amount of stress is when I wasn't working but was home taking care of the kids and the house.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Sept 6, 2016 12:52:23 GMT -5
The more I read these SAHM threads, the more I am convinced we are simply a product of our own experience!! First of all, "open letters" almost always can be easily criticized because someone chooses to share their personal experience/feelings with the world. If I chose to write an open letter to my DH, I'm sure many would have a heyday making fun of it. That is one reason why I choose to show my appreciation to him privately . So, the personal experience I can bring to this thread is that I have been a working single, working spouse, working married mom, working single mom, working married mom again, SAH (retired) mom and spouse, and now a SAH mom with a SAH spouse (both of us are retired, youngest is 10). For me, nothing was worse than a bad marriage! My single mom years were awesome (for me). Yes, all the responsibility was mine and at times things were incredibly stressful, but I was comfortable relying on myself, and my first marriage had been so bad, that I expect that shaped my perspective. DH and I did come close to divorce a few years into our marriage, but luckily were able to repair and strengthen our marriage. Several years later, he shared with me one of the reasons he knew he needed to get his act together was that he was aware of the fact that I was happy as a single person and single parent. I am a happily married mom of two, but if that married part changed, I know that after an adjustment period I would be a happily single mom again. I suppose not just any man could put up with that, but I am happy DH accepts it, because I love having him as a part of my life! I totally get what you are saying. I stayed in a marriage where I wasn't treated well (and that's being nice!) because of fear. Not financial because I knew I could support myself, but the fear of being a single mom...that's scary shit to me! But now I'm single and kicking ass so I know I am absolutely fine by myself. I have said "I will never need a man so any man I choose to be with will know it's because I WANT him and not NEED him". It's a good place to be...ok, not being in a sucky marriage in the first place is probably a better place to be
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Sept 8, 2016 7:54:53 GMT -5
I didn't realize until I read a certain obituary yesterday, but Suzanne Venker is Phyllis Schafly's niece. That explains a lot. Continuing the family tradition of building a career out of criticizing other women for having careers. Ultimately we're all better off when families have the opportunity and flexibility to come up with divisions of labor that work for them. I never understood Phyllis Schafly.
She traveled all over the world to tell people women should be home with their kids.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Sept 8, 2016 7:56:08 GMT -5
Well I have to say now that I've seen both sides of the coin and I'm a stay-at-home-dad...it's pretty sweet! My daughter fixes her breakfast and gets to the bus stop on time. It takes like an hour a day to keep the house clean and put the dishes in the dishwasher and all that. Put out the garbage cans on Tuesday. I'm being a bit serious and a bit of a smartass. I'm being serious in that's all I do - because our kids are older. I'm being a smartass in that I have a lot more time with them, or at least one of them, and now I can see how there is a bond because of that time. She just said "love you dada" the other day and it about broke my heart. Normally it's like "good night." So I totally get the stay at home parent thing. I don't totally get the "I slave at home alllll day to make it look nice when you get home from work" thing, but I totally get the "I stay at home and have a better connection to my children because of it" thing. If you're in the latter category, thank your spouse once in awhile for making that situation possible. Believe it or not they contribute a little too, even though all they do is go off to work every day . It's because your child is older.
Try cleaning up after a bunch of toddlers.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Sept 8, 2016 8:00:31 GMT -5
I don't understand anybody telling anybody what to do in this regard, but I do see the irony in that particular case. I also don't understand giving a flying F what anybody think about what I do but nothing can evoke more guilt feelings than this particular subject. I'm pretty sure that if I had kids, I'd like to stay home with them for a while anyway. I don't, however, know if circumstances would permit me to do so. I would consider myself really blessed to have a choice and screw what anybody thinks about the choice I made.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Sept 8, 2016 8:13:59 GMT -5
My husband grew up wanting a stay at home wife/mother. He knows very well that if it wasn't for homeschooling, I would be working. And even though I am doing it, I am not staying home to cook and clean.
I am sure I could find 1000 hobbies and volunteer opportunities if I stayed home while kids are in school, but I would feel too guilty.
There are many moms in my various homeschooling groups who have "mother's helpers" come a few times a week. I could never do that. If I am already home and not making money, I am certainly not spending it on bringing someone else in to "play" with my kids.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2016 8:28:03 GMT -5
I've been known to pay someone to clean even though I'm not working for pay
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Sept 8, 2016 10:15:02 GMT -5
I am sure I could find 1000 hobbies and volunteer opportunities if I stayed home while kids are in school, but I would feel too guilty.I'm so glad I don't have that problem. DH has off today, without any kids. We were talking about what he was going to do today. Half of me was like "I hate you." The other half was like "Rock on! Go have some fun." I think it will get better eventually. I switched my work at home day to a day DH is home. We can have like an hour of couple time when we are both mentally/emotionally awake. I'm super excited. DH is looking forward to it too..
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