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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2016 18:13:20 GMT -5
Isn't the kid like...14? I don't think not giving kids access to recreational electronics is abuse. I think removing the availability of emergency communication from anyone able to use it IS abuse. I don't think it is awful not to have a phone when going out. It's not a case of not providing the ability to call for help, which I think is problematic, but removing it. That's pretty fucked up. She's 10. I still thought of this as her phone was taken away, not that Dad didn't have one, but hard to tell with Loony's posts.
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quince
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Post by quince on Jul 25, 2016 18:39:51 GMT -5
Isn't the kid like...14? I don't think not giving kids access to recreational electronics is abuse. I think removing the availability of emergency communication from anyone able to use it IS abuse. I don't think it is awful not to have a phone when going out. It's not a case of not providing the ability to call for help, which I think is problematic, but removing it. That's pretty fucked up. She's 10. I still thought of this as her phone was taken away, not that Dad didn't have one, but hard to tell with Loony's posts. Ah, well, if she has access to a phone for emergencies, no big deal. I don't agree with that just being Dad's cell, though, because l think kids should have access to communication devices to call for help against their own parents if needed. I'd certainly be concerned if my child who cried when they had to go see their other parent had their means of communication taken away when they did so. Poor kid.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Jul 25, 2016 23:35:39 GMT -5
She's 10. I still thought of this as her phone was taken away, not that Dad didn't have one, but hard to tell with Loony's posts. Ah, well, if she has access to a phone for emergencies, no big deal. I don't agree with that just being Dad's cell, though, because l think kids should have access to communication devices to call for help against their own parents if needed. I'd certainly be concerned if my child who cried when they had to go see their other parent had their means of communication taken away when they did so. Poor kid. Or maybe the mother being such a drama queen is blowing up everything to the 10th degree! Ok you get to the house at 8 PM and no one is there. You know what a civilized person does: call the ex husband and see how long before they get to the house since you are there. Not call the cops! It is obvious this mother is trying everything to escalate everything. You wonder why the other 2 older kids live with their dads? Poor daughter stuck in this mess! And as a Parent he has full right and authority to parent his child the way he sees fit when she is in his custody aka take away electronics when she gets to his house. If the guy has no history of abusing his kids (guessing not since he got visitations) not sure what the big hoopla is about! So what? We are going to mandate that poor people or people on a low income have a phone? Or else is child abuse? I work with people that do not have a working phone in their household : disconnected due to no payments or cannot afford one. Their poor children suffering such abuse! No one else is seeing that the mother is the one acting like a nut here? Seems like mother is either not over the ex or not over being the miserable person he left or not ok with the fact that he moved on while she obviously has not!
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quince
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Post by quince on Jul 26, 2016 0:40:55 GMT -5
A civilized person is there at the point of exchange when swapping custody of kids, but yes, since the ex probably has a cell phone, a call should have been made (unless there is something in the divorce decree that prohibits such contact- divorces can be all kinds of fucked up.)
Not having access to something due to financial reasons is not the same as removing access to something.
Mattresses. Luxury. Not important unless medical issues are around. If you can't afford a mattress, that's cool. But if you can afford a mattress, or your kid comes with sleeping bag from your coparent's home, and you take it away, and everyone else has mattresses and/or sleeping bags, that's not a sign of awesome parenting.
Shoes. I grew up in Hawaii. $5 or less slippers (flip flops, thongs, whatever) or bare feet FTW. Shoes are expensive and a luxury. If you come into the house with shoes and get them taken away for the duration of your stay? Kind of fucked up.
I do not think locking up a cell phone is a bad thing if there is a house phone, or hell, a unicorn payphone on the corner of the block the kid can get to. I don't think 10 year olds or even 18 year olds need cell phones.
If there is a phone jack in the house, a phone should be able to dial 911 even without a plan, or at least it worked in the past. Cell phones, even without plans, can dial 911. A phone that can do NOTHING but dial 911 in my mind would be sufficient. In fact, if my kid ever gets a cell phone, it will probably dial 1) mom, 2) dad, 3) 911. 4) There is no 4.
ETA: and I think everyone who said anything against taking electronics away basically said the problem is not removing electronics, it is ONLY a problem if the kid doesn't have any access to make an emergency call/ call other parent. No one said they should keep all their fancy toys.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2016 7:57:17 GMT -5
It's hard to tell what's going on. This is second hand info translated by Looney.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 26, 2016 8:05:22 GMT -5
No phone, No TV, No iPod (who even still uses an ipod btw).
This sounds like a clear case of child abuse.
I'm almost positive that nearly nothing will happen if mom came one time at 8pm and nobody was home. People run late sometimes. It's not like the daughter was home alone doing heroin when mom showed up. I f@#cking USE AN IPOD!!!!!
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 26, 2016 8:22:43 GMT -5
Relic!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2016 8:42:16 GMT -5
They're still making ipods. They just came out with the 6th generation of Touch last year. Both my kids have them and we have a bunch of shuffles laying around too, but those don't get used.
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whoami
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Post by whoami on Jul 26, 2016 9:39:59 GMT -5
She's 10. I still thought of this as her phone was taken away, not that Dad didn't have one, but hard to tell with Loony's posts. Ah, well, if she has access to a phone for emergencies, no big deal. I don't agree with that just being Dad's cell, though, because l think kids should have access to communication devices to call for help against their own parents if needed. I'd certainly be concerned if my child who cried when they had to go see their other parent had their means of communication taken away when they did so. Poor kid. Have you ever been divorced or dealt with custody issues? My two used to cry when they returned from their fathers for their couple week summer visit until they were in middle school. Why? Because he couldnt be bothered with seeing them the rest of the year (despite being 3 hours away) and they were burned right the hell out. It was one big nonstop junk food, stay up all night, soda filled orgy that came to a screeching halt when they came home. They were exhausted and probably didnt like the fact that we did have rules here and no...you cant just do whatever you want. After they caught up on their sleep, all was well again in the universe. Interestingly enough, once they were older, neither one was even all that interested in going and the whining to go live with dad (because who doesnt want to play 24/7, turned into whining that they didnt want to go because it was so boring there). I can guarantee you this has nothing to do with making emergency calls. Its a big old power struggle (primarily from a drama queen mother apparently) who is going to bitch her way right into supervised visitation if she keeps it up. If this were an intact family, no one would be questioning a parents ability to take away electronics or restrict a kid from making a phone call. No, you dont get to call your other parent and tattle whenever you feel like it just because the parent you are with is doing something you dont like...you know, like being a parent and not a buddy.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Jul 26, 2016 9:47:34 GMT -5
It's not child abuse to not have their electronic toys. End of story.
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chen35
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Post by chen35 on Jul 26, 2016 9:56:17 GMT -5
Crap like this makes me realize how lucky I am. One weekend we were having the kids help us clean out the basement. We were at it for probably an hour tops. DD was 10 at the time. She snuck upstairs and texted her mom that we were mean and just making her do work. Her mom told her not to run to her about it, and part of being a family was helping out when needed.
The only people who suffer in these situations where the parents can't pull their head out and get along are the kids. Calling the cops on your daughters father for something so inconsequential is going to have long term ramifications.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2016 10:06:50 GMT -5
Ah, well, if she has access to a phone for emergencies, no big deal. I don't agree with that just being Dad's cell, though, because l think kids should have access to communication devices to call for help against their own parents if needed. I'd certainly be concerned if my child who cried when they had to go see their other parent had their means of communication taken away when they did so. Poor kid. Have you ever been divorced or dealt with custody issues? My two used to cry when they returned from their fathers for their couple week summer visit until they were in middle school. Why? Because he couldnt be bothered with seeing them the rest of the year (despite being 3 hours away) and they were burned right the hell out. It was one big nonstop junk food, stay up all night, soda filled orgy that came to a screeching halt when they came home. They were exhausted and probably didnt like the fact that we did have rules here and no...you cant just do whatever you want. After they caught up on their sleep, all was well again in the universe. Interestingly enough, once they were older, neither one was even all that interested in going and the whining to go live with dad (because who doesnt want to play 24/7, turned into whining that they didnt want to go because it was so boring there). I can guarantee you this has nothing to do with making emergency calls. Its a big old power struggle (primarily from a drama queen mother apparently) who is going to bitch her way right into supervised visitation if she keeps it up. If this were an intact family, no one would be questioning a parents ability to take away electronics or restrict a kid from making a phone call. No, you dont get to call your other parent and tattle whenever you feel like it just because the parent you are with is doing something you dont like...you know, like being a parent and not a buddy. So glad to hear there's hope. My 6 year old is constantly crying to me how much he wants to live at his Dad's and how mean I am. Sorry, I'm trying to prep you to be an adult. Your Dad isn't there yet, so how would he know? (ok, I don't SAY that, but I certainly think it!)
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Jul 26, 2016 11:54:36 GMT -5
Hm. I think if there is no house phone, taking away a kid's phone IS abuse. Everyone should be able to make a call in an emergency. She is not allowed to call her mom while she is at Dads. And now it is a whole week!!!
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Jul 26, 2016 11:56:52 GMT -5
Isn't the kid like...14? I don't think not giving kids access to recreational electronics is abuse. I think removing the availability of emergency communication from anyone able to use it IS abuse. I don't think it is awful not to have a phone when going out. It's not a case of not providing the ability to call for help, which I think is problematic, but removing it. That's pretty fucked up. She's 10. I still thought of this as her phone was taken away, not that Dad didn't have one, but hard to tell with Loony's posts. Dad is removing her access to the phones period as soon as she comes to his house. They also put code on TV so she can't watch it.
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Jul 26, 2016 11:58:50 GMT -5
It's not child abuse to not have their electronic toys. End of story. How about not taking her to any activities while under his care? No sports, no church...nothing!
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quince
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Post by quince on Jul 26, 2016 12:04:39 GMT -5
I believe that no one said there was a problem with removing electronics in general. I also do think people would be questioning parents who remove their kids ability to call emergency services (Which is ALL I personally have a problem with), even if they were an "intact" family, unless the kid had a history of stupid-calling 911. Which the kid could have, for all we know.
I haven't been divorced, but my parents were. And we didn't cry when we visited my bio-dad, even though he was disorganized, skipped out on picking us up half the time, couldn't be bothered to have toilet paper or proper places to sleep for us, and yelled all the time because he had no idea how to handle children, and had an unfortunate relationship with alcohol, so I'm not used to the idea that 10 year old children cry over something as small as an environment not being "fun", and expect that sort of stress to be over something more significant.
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quince
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Post by quince on Jul 26, 2016 12:06:36 GMT -5
OK, maybe Loony thinks having no TV access is bad.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 26, 2016 12:14:26 GMT -5
It's not child abuse to not have their electronic toys. End of story. How about not taking her to any activities while under his care? No sports, no church...nothing!
I may have missed you saying so, loony, but is the child misbehaving? Is that why stuff is being taken away?
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chen35
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Post by chen35 on Jul 26, 2016 12:29:36 GMT -5
I believe that no one said there was a problem with removing electronics in general. I also do think people would be questioning parents who remove their kids ability to call emergency services (Which is ALL I personally have a problem with), even if they were an "intact" family, unless the kid had a history of stupid-calling 911. Which the kid could have, for all we know. I haven't been divorced, but my parents were. And we didn't cry when we visited my bio-dad, even though he was disorganized, skipped out on picking us up half the time, couldn't be bothered to have toilet paper or proper places to sleep for us, and yelled all the time because he had no idea how to handle children, and had an unfortunate relationship with alcohol, so I'm not used to the idea that 10 year old children cry over something as small as an environment not being "fun", and expect that sort of stress to be over something more significant. DS probably cried up until he was 9 or 10 when he came to our house. Once he was in the car he was fine (and for the rest of the time). And that was with parents who weren't combative with each other. I can see it being very upsetting for a 10 year old whose parents obviously hate each other.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2016 12:31:36 GMT -5
It's not child abuse to not have their electronic toys. End of story. How about not taking her to any activities while under his care? No sports, no church...nothing!
I still think there's a lot missing to this. Is she in sports and he's not taking her to scheduled practices? Divorce can really suck for kids of parents that have opposing viewpoints on child rearing (which may have contributed to the divorce in the first place). My ex probably bitches that I don't take our son to church, but I gave up the religion thing and don't plan on going back to placate him. I don't like that he lets our son stay up late and play video games for hours on end. If the child is REALLY unhappy, she's getting to the age where she may have a say with the courts, especially if he's not transporting to sports she's enrolled in.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 26, 2016 12:32:59 GMT -5
DS makes noise and sometimes cries when I drop him off. Don't really know why, because I'm definitely not the "fun" parent.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jul 26, 2016 12:45:55 GMT -5
So what? We are going to mandate that poor people or people on a low income have a phone? Or else is child abuse? I work with people that do not have a working phone in their household : disconnected due to no payments or cannot afford one. Their poor children suffering such abuse! It depends. I've worked with 5 year old kids that were responsible for caring for their 2 year old sibling while adults could not be found. Would you really want to leave two children alone, by themselves, with no method of calling anyone in an emergency? Again, in the neighborhoods they tend to concentrate in, then in an emergency, you are asking kids to go knocking on the doors of convicted sex offenders in an emergency. And, as it is, folks that qualify for medicaid and food stamps can get into a free/highly discounted cell phone program that the federal government runs. So, there is some evidence that the government thinks it's important to poor/low income folks to be able to call someone.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2016 12:51:56 GMT -5
Well, I would say leaving a 5 and 2 year old home alone even with a phone is abusive. Not sure having a phone makes it much better.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2016 13:19:38 GMT -5
Lets look at all the possible scenarios with Looney's friend's 10 year old, since she never gave details A. Girl has no phone. Nobody else in the house has a phone. - This is bad. B. Girl has no phone. She's always with Dad or brothers that do have phones. C. Girl has phone - Dad takes it away when she shows up. She's left alone without her phone and there is no landline
D. Girl has phone - Dad takes it away when she shows up. She's left alone without her phone and there is a landline but girl doesn't consider this to be a phone because she can't text.
E. Girl has phone - Dad takes it away when she shows up. Girl is never left alone.
A and C are the only issue possibilities. A can be solved by Mom getting her daughter a cell phone. For C we need to know WHY Dad is taking it away. Is she spending every waking moment on her phone? Is she accessing things he doesn't feel she should? Is it a punishment for something else? If we know that, there is probably a solution. My son used to get his smart phone taken away periodically and replaced with a super old flip phone that even texting on was a pain.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 26, 2016 13:25:34 GMT -5
So what? We are going to mandate that poor people or people on a low income have a phone? Or else is child abuse? I work with people that do not have a working phone in their household : disconnected due to no payments or cannot afford one. Their poor children suffering such abuse! It depends. I've worked with 5 year old kids that were responsible for caring for their 2 year old sibling while adults could not be found. Would you really want to leave two children alone, by themselves, with no method of calling anyone in an emergency? Again, in the neighborhoods they tend to concentrate in, then in an emergency, you are asking kids to go knocking on the doors of convicted sex offenders in an emergency. And, as it is, folks that qualify for medicaid and food stamps can get into a free/highly discounted cell phone program that the federal government runs. So, there is some evidence that the government thinks it's important to poor/low income folks to be able to call someone. It makes me want to cry that there are 5 year olds made to be the responsible ones. Like, how fucked up are your priorities?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2016 13:41:17 GMT -5
A few years back there was a house fire near here where two young kids left alone died. They actually started it messing around with candles....then hid under the bed.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2016 14:03:52 GMT -5
Hm. I think if there is no house phone, taking away a kid's phone IS abuse. Everyone should be able to make a call in an emergency. She is not allowed to call her mom while she is at Dads. And now it is a whole week!!!
Ok, missed this post. This one is not good. I do think if this is happening and the parents can't be civil and work it out, then the courts would side in favor of Mom for allowing communication between the daughter and Mom.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jul 26, 2016 14:34:25 GMT -5
It's possibly not good, but I could see another scenario where the mom just gets the kid all riled up or upset or takes what kid says and yells at dad about it where his response is enough with the phone calls.
I don't think it's that far fetched if mom called the cops before even trying to get a hold of the dad.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jul 26, 2016 14:39:59 GMT -5
I mean from this thread her really important omg get this kid away from her dad objections are
Sharing a hotel bed with her older bro Her 18 yo bro watching her without dad around No tv Taking her cell phone away No activities No calling mom
I think the not calling mom would be more relevant and more of an issue if the other issues were of a similar gravity.
Dad could just be like no you're not calling your mom to complain again about not being able to watch tv here and 10 yo is like what else would I talk to mom for except complain.
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Jul 26, 2016 15:08:17 GMT -5
How about not taking her to any activities while under his care? No sports, no church...nothing!
I may have missed you saying so, loony, but is the child misbehaving? Is that why stuff is being taken away? It's a straight A student who is as nice as she can be. He is petrified of this lunatic so are his sons. I mean boys afraid of father as well. He takes stuff to be mean. It's so sad...
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