girl groped on plane

[swamp]

So many things to talk about in here!

www.watertowndailytimes.com/national/unaccompanied-minor-allegedly-groped-on-flight-20160620

For $300, the airlines should keep a closer eye on the kids.

When a guy is acting like a whackadoodle, don't put him right next to an unaccompanied kid.

[lexxy703]

The flight attendant should have moved the girl when the guy sat down next to her.  That is certainly questionable behavior on his part. 

I don't understand why the girl didn't cream or push his hand away. I probably would have broken his damn arm if he groped me when I was 13.

[thyme4change]

Reminds me of a book I read in English 101, where a girl was molested on a train. I got a D on the paper because she had imagined the whole thing and I didn't pick up on it. Such a disturbing book, and I doubt they use it anymore, especially with that analysis.

I also question why they didn't move her when he refused to move.

[swamp]

Jun 20, 2016 10:42:26 GMT -5 lexxy703 said:

The flight attendant should have moved the girl when the guy sat down next to her.  That is certainly questionable behavior on his part. 

I don't understand why the girl didn't cream or push his hand away. I probably would have broken his damn arm if he groped me when I was 13.

Oh, I don't know, maybe she was scared?

She's 13, cut her some slack.

[swamp]

Jun 20, 2016 10:49:14 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Jun 20, 2016 10:42:26 GMT -5 lexxy703 said:

The flight attendant should have moved the girl when the guy sat down next to her.  That is certainly questionable behavior on his part. 

I don't understand why the girl didn't cream or push his hand away. I probably would have broken his damn arm if he groped me when I was 13.

Predators don't prey on those that they think will fight back.   I'm guessing the girl was giving off meek vibes.  (I am not trying to start anything like we had in that "other thread"- so please don't go there if you are thinking about it).  

exactly.

If she appeared to be a bolder type person, he probably would have left her alone.

[swamp]

Jun 20, 2016 10:50:48 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Jun 20, 2016 10:48:43 GMT -5 swamp said:

Oh, I don't know, maybe she was scared?

She's 13, cut her some slack.

I get where Lexxy's coming from.  I had a big mouth at that age and no fear of upsetting the apple cart, as it were.   I think I would have reacted much differently than the girl did. 

When I was 13, I probably would have reacted the same way. 

Now I'd punch him.

[midjd]

Jun 20, 2016 10:48:43 GMT -5 swamp said:

Jun 20, 2016 10:42:26 GMT -5 lexxy703 said:

The flight attendant should have moved the girl when the guy sat down next to her.  That is certainly questionable behavior on his part. 

I don't understand why the girl didn't cream or push his hand away. I probably would have broken his damn arm if he groped me when I was 13.

Oh, I don't know, maybe she was scared?

She's 13, cut her some slack.

When I was 13, public embarrassment was a fate worse than death (almost literally). I would have (and did) put up with a LOT to avoid "causing a scene."

Nice that it only took 3 posts for someone to point out the 13yo victim's role in her own assault. 

[DagnyT]

Jun 20, 2016 10:53:24 GMT -5 midjd said:

Jun 20, 2016 10:48:43 GMT -5 swamp said:

Oh, I don't know, maybe she was scared?

She's 13, cut her some slack.

When I was 13, public embarrassment was a fate worse than death (almost literally). I would have (and did) put up with a LOT to avoid "causing a scene."

Nice that it only took 3 posts for someone to point out the 13yo victim's role in her own assault. 

Wondering why she did not scream or push his hand away is not "pointing out the 13 yo victim's role in her own assault." It is just a wondering question. Most people would wonder why someone didn't scream. That is not the same as saying, "She didn't scream or push his hand away, so therefore she is at fault." 

ETA: I couldn't read the article link because it did not open properly for me. Probably she was scared and wasn't sure what to do. 

[Deleted]

Why wonder then?

Is the wondering why the flight attendants didn't move her not implying they were at fault? 

[MJ2.0]

Jun 20, 2016 10:59:53 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Jun 20, 2016 10:53:24 GMT -5 midjd said:

When I was 13, public embarrassment was a fate worse than death (almost literally). I would have (and did) put up with a LOT to avoid "causing a scene."

Nice that it only took 3 posts for someone to point out the 13yo victim's role in her own assault. 

Stop.   

I'm sorry but saying "why didn't she xyz" is a completely pointless and IMO shitty response.

[MJ2.0]

Jun 20, 2016 11:04:45 GMT -5 DagnyT said:

Jun 20, 2016 10:53:24 GMT -5 midjd said:

When I was 13, public embarrassment was a fate worse than death (almost literally). I would have (and did) put up with a LOT to avoid "causing a scene."

Nice that it only took 3 posts for someone to point out the 13yo victim's role in her own assault. 

Wondering why she did not scream or push his hand away is not "pointing out the 13 yo victim's role in her own assault." It is just a wondering question. Most people would wonder why someone didn't scream. That is not the same as saying, "She didn't scream or push his hand away, so therefore she is at fault." 

It doesn't matter why. She would have made noise AFTER the assault anyway so it still would have happened.

[DagnyT]

Jun 20, 2016 11:06:26 GMT -5 oped said:

Why wonder then?

Is the wondering why the flight attendants didn't move her not implying they were at fault? 

Oped,
Do you not wonder ever why someone did something different than you would? Do you not have a curious bone in your body? It is a legitimate thing to wonder. It is not putting blame on the victim to wonder why she did not scream especially if you are the type that would scream and knock the ever living snot out of someone who did that to you.

[DagnyT]

Jun 20, 2016 11:08:38 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

Jun 20, 2016 11:04:45 GMT -5 DagnyT said:

Wondering why she did not scream or push his hand away is not "pointing out the 13 yo victim's role in her own assault." It is just a wondering question. Most people would wonder why someone didn't scream. That is not the same as saying, "She didn't scream or push his hand away, so therefore she is at fault." 

It doesn't matter why. She would have made noise AFTER the assault anyway so it still would have happened.

I agree that it doesn't matter that she didn't scream, and of course, it would have come after the assault.
 

[justme]

Why would one wonder why the flight attendant didn't move the girl if they thought the flight attendant did nothing wrong?

If the flight attendant did nothing wrong, then there's no wondering why they didn't do something else.

[raeoflyte]

Jun 20, 2016 11:04:45 GMT -5 DagnyT said:

Jun 20, 2016 10:53:24 GMT -5 midjd said:

When I was 13, public embarrassment was a fate worse than death (almost literally). I would have (and did) put up with a LOT to avoid "causing a scene."

Nice that it only took 3 posts for someone to point out the 13yo victim's role in her own assault. 

Wondering why she did not scream or push his hand away is not "pointing out the 13 yo victim's role in her own assault." It is just a wondering question. Most people would wonder why someone didn't scream. That is not the same as saying, "She didn't scream or push his hand away, so therefore she is at fault." 

ETA: I couldn't read the article link because it did not open properly for me. Probably she was scared and wasn't sure what to do. 

According to the article she DID push his hand away (which apparently bad guys don't care about--I'm shocked!) and apparently there was another male witness that was moved after the incident and gave statements to the police after the plane landed.  WTF?  

It needs to be repeated over and over again until our first reaction isn't to decide what the victim should have done differently.  

[lexxy703]

Ok, for what it is worth I am not blaming the victim but I was a 13 yo girl once.  I have two nieces & I just really cannot see this happening without them saying something.  I guess she is a mousy little thing & was too terrified to utter a sound. 

I do think the flight attendant failed her.  Nobody ever wants to sit in the middle seat if they don't have to.  His behavior was very questionable & the young girl should have been moved.

[Miss Tequila]

Jun 20, 2016 11:04:45 GMT -5 DagnyT said:

Jun 20, 2016 10:53:24 GMT -5 midjd said:

When I was 13, public embarrassment was a fate worse than death (almost literally). I would have (and did) put up with a LOT to avoid "causing a scene."

Nice that it only took 3 posts for someone to point out the 13yo victim's role in her own assault. 

Wondering why she did not scream or push his hand away is not "pointing out the 13 yo victim's role in her own assault." It is just a wondering question. Most people would wonder why someone didn't scream. That is not the same as saying, "She didn't scream or push his hand away, so therefore she is at fault." 

ETA: I couldn't read the article link because it did not open properly for me. Probably she was scared and wasn't sure what to do. 

Exactly.  We hear all of the time about kids molested by friends of the family,family, teachers, etc.  I always wanted to know WHY they never told...not because any of it was their fault but so I could understand their thought process. 

As usual, I don't understand how anyone makes the leap from that to blaming the victim. 

[DagnyT]

Jun 20, 2016 11:20:31 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Jun 20, 2016 11:04:45 GMT -5 DagnyT said:

Wondering why she did not scream or push his hand away is not "pointing out the 13 yo victim's role in her own assault." It is just a wondering question. Most people would wonder why someone didn't scream. That is not the same as saying, "She didn't scream or push his hand away, so therefore she is at fault." 

ETA: I couldn't read the article link because it did not open properly for me. Probably she was scared and wasn't sure what to do. 

According to the article she DID push his hand away (which apparently bad guys don't care about--I'm shocked!) and apparently there was another male witness that was moved after the incident and gave statements to the police after the plane landed.  WTF?  

It needs to be repeated over and over again until our first reaction isn't to decide what the victim should have done differently.  

I assure you my first reaction would not be why didn't she scream or push his hand away. My first reaction is, "That jerk needs to be put under the jail, etc." I am just saying that Lexy is not blaming the victim by wondering why she didn't scream. Screaming would have brought a flight attendant to her seat so that this child would not have had to endure this abuse. I think that is all Lexy was thinking.

[Deleted]

Here is the total truth. You have absolutely no idea how you will handle being assaulted until you are assaulted. Its the same as people who say they have no idea how a woman could ever allow a man to hit her. There are certain things that you can't understand until you have lived them. You can explain all the live long day how YOU wouldn't have allowed yourself to be attacked that way.... but you really don't know.... and even if you did, it does not good in the situation to blame the girl for not acting in the manner you think that she should have acted to change the behavior of the attacker. 

[swamp]

Jun 20, 2016 11:26:19 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Jun 20, 2016 11:04:45 GMT -5 DagnyT said:

Wondering why she did not scream or push his hand away is not "pointing out the 13 yo victim's role in her own assault." It is just a wondering question. Most people would wonder why someone didn't scream. That is not the same as saying, "She didn't scream or push his hand away, so therefore she is at fault." 

ETA: I couldn't read the article link because it did not open properly for me. Probably she was scared and wasn't sure what to do. 

Exactly.  We hear all of the time about kids molested by friends of the family,family, teachers, etc.  I always wanted to know WHY they never told...not because any of it was their fault but so I could understand their thought process. 

As usual, I don't understand how anyone makes the leap from that to blaming the victim. 

I will kill your dog if you tell.

I will beat you/your mom if you tell.

If you tell, it's going to break up the family, I'll lose my job, and it will be all your fault.

I'm an adult, you're a kid, nobody is going to believe you. 

Look at the trouble you've been in, who's going to believe you? 

Look at everything I've done for you, and this is our special bond, why would you tell anyone?

That's just a sampling.

ETA:  You tell, I'll go to jail, and it will be your fault.  You don't want that, do you?

You tell, you'll have to go to foster care.    

[Deleted]

I wouldn't have screamed at 13.  I almost choked to death at age 10 or 11 in a crowded lunch room just because I was terrified to draw attention to myself. 

[swamp]

Jun 20, 2016 11:24:59 GMT -5 lexxy703 said:

Ok, for what it is worth I am not blaming the victim but I was a 13 yo girl once.  I have two nieces & I just really cannot see this happening without them saying something.  I guess she is a mousy little thing & was too terrified to utter a sound. 

I do think the flight attendant failed her.  Nobody ever wants to sit in the middle seat if they don't have to.  His behavior was very questionable & the young girl should have been moved.

I was 13 once. I can totally see it.

[lexxy703]

We were taught about stranger danger. We were taught to make as much noise as possible & fight, bite, scratch whatever it took. That is my mindset & why I don't understand her lack of reaction. Maybe her parents didn't teach her the same things mine did.

[swamp]

Jun 20, 2016 11:32:10 GMT -5 lexxy703 said:

We were taught about stranger danger. We were taught to make as much noise as possible & fight, bite, scratch whatever it took. That is my mindset & why I don't understand her lack of reaction. Maybe her parents didn't teach her the same things mine did.

Or maybe she's very passive/meek/shy/withdrawn and they guy picked up on that.

He's not going to target the boisterous, outgoing, and confident kid.

[Deleted]

Jun 20, 2016 11:32:10 GMT -5 lexxy703 said:

We were taught about stranger danger. We were taught to make as much noise as possible & fight, bite, scratch whatever it took. That is my mindset & why I don't understand her lack of reaction. Maybe her parents didn't teach her the same things mine did.

Yes. She must just not have been taught right. Because we all know that if SHE had only acted in the APPROPRIATE way..... this never should have happened.  And that is why it will never happen to you, or your neices, or your child. 

     Sigh....  

[zibazinski]

Who the hell seats an adult male next to a 13 year old? Ick

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jun 20, 2016 11:32:10 GMT -5 lexxy703 said:

We were taught about stranger danger. We were taught to make as much noise as possible & fight, bite, scratch whatever it took. That is my mindset & why I don't understand her lack of reaction. Maybe her parents didn't teach her the same things mine did.

They did a special on dateline once about stranger danger.   Most of the kids failed despite their parents hammering "stranger danger" into their heads.  Parents and the host watched as kid after kid got in the car or talked to the stranger.    When asked why despite mommy and daddy saying numerous times don't do that their response was "I don't know".

Here is the thing, you do not know how you will react in a situation until you are put in it.     You can claim to heaven and back that you know exactly what you would have done and that anyone who doesn't do what you claim you would is too mousey/weak/stupid/naive to have done it but it's all hypothetical.  

I was reading an interesting article on Slate about why we feel when things like this happen or the crocodile incident in Orlando that we have to find someone to blame and how we have to announce we're far too perfect to have had such a thing happen to/around us.   That's the culture we live in nowadays.   There can be no accidents/victims.  If there are then we have to admit we are not 100% control of the universe, maybe we aren't perfect and maybe we wouldn't know how to handle a similar situation.

[swamp]

Jun 20, 2016 11:36:40 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Who the hell seats an adult male next to a 13 year old? Ick

The adult male looking to cop a feel.

[Miss Tequila]

Jun 20, 2016 11:30:06 GMT -5 swamp said:

Jun 20, 2016 11:26:19 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Exactly.  We hear all of the time about kids molested by friends of the family,family, teachers, etc.  I always wanted to know WHY they never told...not because any of it was their fault but so I could understand their thought process. 

As usual, I don't understand how anyone makes the leap from that to blaming the victim. 

I will kill your dog if you tell.

I will beat you/your mom if you tell.

If you tell, it's going to break up the family, I'll lose my job, and it will be all your fault.

I'm an adult, you're a kid, nobody is going to believe you. 

Look at the trouble you've been in, who's going to believe you? 

Look at everything I've done for you, and this is our special bond, why would you tell anyone?

That's just a sampling.

And that's the scary part.  Because my daughter has my personality so I've always assumed she would be the one to tell the perv to fuck off and tell me.  But I have found out that people I know to be strong people were molested as children.  It is honestly something I can't wrap my brain around.  And that is NOT shaming the victim ffs, it is me not understanding. 

ETA:  I didn't know these people as children so maybe they were more meek and reserved. 

[justme]

Jun 20, 2016 11:26:19 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Jun 20, 2016 11:04:45 GMT -5 DagnyT said:

Wondering why she did not scream or push his hand away is not "pointing out the 13 yo victim's role in her own assault." It is just a wondering question. Most people would wonder why someone didn't scream. That is not the same as saying, "She didn't scream or push his hand away, so therefore she is at fault." 

ETA: I couldn't read the article link because it did not open properly for me. Probably she was scared and wasn't sure what to do. 

Exactly.  We hear all of the time about kids molested by friends of the family,family, teachers, etc.  I always wanted to know WHY they never told...not because any of it was their fault but so I could understand their thought process. 

As usual, I don't understand how anyone makes the leap from that to blaming the victim. 

Possibly because they are met with people wondering why they didn't tell sooner. Wondering why they didn't scream when it happened. Wondering why they didn't push the person away.

Not blaming them, just wondering why they did everything the wrong way.