NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 48,103
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 20, 2016 13:57:02 GMT -5
A man apparently saw this happen. What can we do to teach people that it's OK and even good to step in and protect others?
That's a good one. That's a question that has been asked A LOT again going back to Nazi Germany.
It's called the "Bystander Effect". When there is more than one person present everyone assumes someone else will take a stand therefore they don't need to for various reasons. The larger the group of people the bigger the bystander effect becomes which is why people comment about how nobody seems to care about Haiti or the plight of starving children in Africa.
We need to work harder at combating the bystander effect but it's an uphill battle.
|
|
lexxy703
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 26, 2011 13:52:17 GMT -5
Posts: 13,771
|
Post by lexxy703 on Jun 20, 2016 13:57:48 GMT -5
The only reason I can think of for him not getting involved is society constantly telling people to mind their own business. It is heartbreaking that he didn't say something to him.
|
|
milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
Posts: 12,344
|
Post by milee on Jun 20, 2016 14:00:59 GMT -5
The only reason I can think of for him not getting involved is society constantly telling people to mind their own business. It is heartbreaking that he didn't say something to him. I love that you can think of a reason for the male bystander to say nothing but according to your earlier posts on the event, you can't come up with any reason for or possibly understand why the young girl being groped didn't scream or break the perv's hand. So societal conditioning is a good excuse for a man not to get involved, but it couldn't possibly be a reason a young girl wouldn't scream or make a scene....
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 14, 2024 3:20:28 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2016 14:06:37 GMT -5
If societal conditioning - that there's something a woman can or should do to control the situation - weren't so strong, there would also be posts like: OMG, I'm the mom of boys. What created a perv like this and how can I prevent this in my boys? What happened to this man to make him like this and can I make sure it doesn't happen to my sons? What do we need to watch out for in young men to prevent them developing into predators? The story mentions a male witness. Why would a man see a young girl being groped with a tear running down her face and do nothing? A man apparently saw this happen. What can we do to teach people that it's OK and even good to step in and protect others? And I could go on and on. We don't have posters asking these questions because the unconscious bias is that men are a certain way and it's up to women to stop them from being that way. I think part (maybe most?) of the reason no one asks those questions about their sons is because no one wants to imagine or believe their child is capable of anything like that. You'd have to believe it's remotely possible to want to address it, and most parents can't wrap their minds around that thought, especially if their child seems "normal".
|
|
lexxy703
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 26, 2011 13:52:17 GMT -5
Posts: 13,771
|
Post by lexxy703 on Jun 20, 2016 14:17:17 GMT -5
The only reason I can think of for him not getting involved is society constantly telling people to mind their own business. It is heartbreaking that he didn't say something to him. I love that you can think of a reason for the male bystander to say nothing but according to your earlier posts on the event, you can't come up with any reason for or possibly understand why the young girl being groped didn't scream or break the perv's hand. So societal conditioning is a good excuse for a man not to get involved, but it couldn't possibly be a reason a young girl wouldn't scream or make a scene.... You & others have cited societal reasons for the young girl not screaming because she was embarrassed or didn't want to make a scene. I have accepted those explanations. I have also read all of Drama's posts explaining how our brain doesn't always react how one would expect in a given situation. I found them very interesting. So asking a question got answers. I'm sorry if my question hit a raw nerve with you.
|
|
milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
Posts: 12,344
|
Post by milee on Jun 20, 2016 14:29:45 GMT -5
I love that you can think of a reason for the male bystander to say nothing but according to your earlier posts on the event, you can't come up with any reason for or possibly understand why the young girl being groped didn't scream or break the perv's hand. So societal conditioning is a good excuse for a man not to get involved, but it couldn't possibly be a reason a young girl wouldn't scream or make a scene.... You & others have cited societal reasons for the young girl not screaming because she was embarrassed or didn't want to make a scene. I have accepted those explanations. I have also read all of Drama's posts explaining how our brain doesn't always react how one would expect in a given situation. I found them very interesting. So asking a question got answers. I'm sorry if my question hit a raw nerve with you. That makes sense and I appreciate you not only changing your views but offering an apology. Thank you for your wisdom and for being a class act.
|
|
|
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jun 20, 2016 14:39:56 GMT -5
The flight attendant should have moved the girl when the guy sat down next to her. That is certainly questionable behavior on his part.
I don't understand why the girl didn't cream or push his hand away. I probably would have broken his damn arm if he groped me when I was 13. Another airline got sued successfully when they did this exact same thing. So American is damned if they do, damned if they don't. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_seating_sex_discrimination_controversy
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,622
|
Post by swamp on Jun 20, 2016 14:40:59 GMT -5
The flight attendant should have moved the girl when the guy sat down next to her. That is certainly questionable behavior on his part.
I don't understand why the girl didn't cream or push his hand away. I probably would have broken his damn arm if he groped me when I was 13. Another airline got sued successfully when they did this exact same thing. So American is damned if they do, damned if they don't. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_seating_sex_discrimination_controversyBecause the rules only apply to man. How about the rule is nobody sits next to an unattended minor unless it's an overly full plane?
|
|
|
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jun 20, 2016 14:45:21 GMT -5
Because the rules only apply to man. How about the rule is nobody sits next to an unattended minor unless it's an overly full plane? I'm not disagreeing with this. I'm looking at it from the perspective of the airline. British Air was sued successfully because they had this policy and enacted upon it. The policy was banished.
|
|
ArchietheDragon
Junior Associate
Joined: Jul 7, 2014 14:29:23 GMT -5
Posts: 6,380
|
Post by ArchietheDragon on Jun 20, 2016 14:45:25 GMT -5
Unaccompanied minors should sit in the cockpit for safety. Unless the pilots are pedophiles. Then they should sit in body of the plane for safety. But not too close to any guys with pervy mustaches or weird body odor. For instance. This guy is going to touch you if you are sitting next to him in the plane.
|
|
gs11rmb
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 12:43:39 GMT -5
Posts: 3,369
|
Post by gs11rmb on Jun 20, 2016 14:48:21 GMT -5
and why didn't you inform the police about him?
and why didn't you confront his wife about him?
it's hard, but silence is what enables these folks to continue
Why would she inform the police? He invited a 21 year old woman into his home and propositioned her. That's not illegal. According to @pinkcshmere, the neighbor did not touch her daughter and when pink told him to leave her home, he did.
BTW, I would have been just as scared as Pink's daughter in that situation. The neighbor was 100% in the wrong but that doesn't make his behavior criminal.
Telling the wife? That's another story!
|
|
lexxy703
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 26, 2011 13:52:17 GMT -5
Posts: 13,771
|
Post by lexxy703 on Jun 20, 2016 14:50:23 GMT -5
Because the rules only apply to man. How about the rule is nobody sits next to an unattended minor unless it's an overly full plane? I'm not disagreeing with this. I'm looking at it from the perspective of the airline. British Air was sued successfully because they had this policy and enacted upon it. The policy was banished. You're right. Damned either way. I think Swamp is right that the wording should be changed to nobody. Sad crazy world we live in.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 14, 2024 3:20:28 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2016 15:12:30 GMT -5
I think I understand why Miss Tequila wants to understand why the girl didn't scream. If I'm right, it's so that Miss Tequila can try to ensure that her girls would be more likely to do something immediately to defend themselves or make the predator stop some kind of way. If only she could understand why a girl wouldn't react strongly and immediately, she might be able to coach her girls better. The problem is that, no one, not even adults, know exactly how they would react in any given situation. We think we do, but we really don't. I have a neighbor who knew I was having my house painted a few years ago. He saw DD outside and told her how they'd had their living room painted recently and invited her to step inside the door to see it. Then he blocked the door and propositioned her, trying to get her to agree to have sex with him. He never touched her, but he's a stocky man and blocking the door intimidated her and he was insisting that she agree, offering her money, offering to take care of her baby. DD was upset and crying when she got back home and told me what he'd done. I went outside and confronted him. He admitted what he did, but said he was asking "for a friend". I can't describe how angry I was. I came back inside to talk to DD again and when I was walking down the hall I heard him come in my house and start coming down the hall behind me. I was already SOOO angry and him daring to follow me into my home took me to a whole new level. I was too mad to be scared, mad enough that I seriously considered shooting him and wondered about the odds of me being able to avoid going to jail, given the circumstances. But shooting him would have traumatized DD even more since she's afraid of guns and she was my priority in that moment. So, I turned around and looked him in the eye and told him if he didn't get the fuck out of my house ..... well, you know. He turned around and walked back out. I'm not proud of it, but I REALLY wanted to shoot him. It was all very ugly. So, my point with this long ass story is that my daughter was 21yo when this happened, not a young kid. This particular neighbor is the one that I would give my house keys to when I left town, in case something went wrong while I was away. My kids didn't spend time inside their house, but if there was ever an emergency, that's the house they would have gone to first for help. He and I or his wife and I would stand outside and chat all the time if we saw each other outside. We didn't hang out socially, but we were friendly neighbors that supposedly looked out for one another. So I understood why DD, even though she was grown, didn't fight him to get out of his house. She was still young enough to see him as something akin to an authority figure, like she always had. He'd abused my and her trust to get her in the house in the first place and I think the abuse of trust is what enraged me the most. I seriously doubt he would have been as bold especially following me into my house, if I'd been a man instead of a woman. And I can't help but wonder if he was lusting after her the whole time he was watching her grow up, even though DD says that was the first time he did or said anything inappropriate. Just the thought still makes my blood boil. We give our kids conflicting messages about being nice, about adults in positions of authority over them, about who's trustworthy and who's not and sometimes we get it wrong, so it's no surprise that they can get caught off guard and not know what to do. ETA: Gee whiz, you all posted 2 more pages while I was typing! Now I gotta go back and catch up! and why didn't you inform the police about him?
and why didn't you confront his wife about him?
it's hard, but silence is what enables these folks to continue
I don't disagree with you, and those are things I thought long and hard about at the time. Honestly, I thought more about talking to his wife than the police. I'll just say that I think it's a lot easier to make those kinds of decisions when it's your own story than when it's another adult's story and they'd rather not have to deal with all the doubt, questions and fallout, and they prefer to just move on with their lives. She was a single 21 yo with a newborn, living with her Mom, and unemployed.......he was a "stable" family man that's been married close to 20 years now. Think about how our society works and let's be real..... who was going to be under more scrutiny? I understood why she wanted to just move on without a lot of extra drama. HOWEVER, if his wife ever asks me why I don't talk to her husband anymore, I have no problem telling her why. Because then it becomes my story and not my daughter's and I don't care whether she believes me. At the time, my daughter would have cared whether people believed her and I didn't want to drag her through all that unwillingly.
|
|
Peace Of Mind
Senior Associate
[font color="#8f2520"]~ Drinks Well With Others ~[/font]
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:53:02 GMT -5
Posts: 15,554
Location: Paradise
|
Post by Peace Of Mind on Jun 20, 2016 15:19:14 GMT -5
This is something I've been thinking about and worrying about a lot recently. I consider myself extremely fortunate never to have been victimized or exposed to 'creepy mom boyfriends', etc. and I hope and pray that will be the same for my two daughters (aged 7 and 3). I'm also an inveterate rule follower who took to heart the admonition to never ever make a scene. My older daughter is now of an age where she will go to friends' houses or the occasional sleepover and I always make sure to tell her to "be on your best behavior", "do whatever Ms. X tells you", "never be rude", etc. because I want to make sure my 'spirited' child is not a brat in someone else's home. What is worrying me is how to convey that good manners and courtesy are expected behaviors but she does not have to do anything that makes her uncomfortable.
If anyone has any age appropriate advice, I would love to hear from you.
I have been thinking about that too. There are way too many conflicting messages we give to our kids. Play nice and get along, but don't let other kids take advantage of you. Listen to your teachers/parents/grands/etc., but don't listen to them if they want you to do something bad. It makes me really sad. This is so true and I'll even take it another step further. When I was about 5/6 years old my oldest step brother's friends (he wasn't with them at the time) would take me out to the barn we had on property to check me out. I had NO clue what was going on or why. They simply wanted to see what a girl looked like. They weren't hurting me and I was too clueless to be embarrassed by what they were doing to shout out nor did I have a clue what to do to get myself out of the situation. Finally my much older step sister caught them and told me to never let a boy do that to me. Yay! I was given permission to speak out and say No! When I was 11 years old my boyfriend lived next door to us. He had 3 sisters and the one that was 2 years older than us and I became good friends and hung around. I tried to "set her up" with my oldest step brother and I assumed that was why she was hanging around me more. Then we had a sleep over and she and I slept in a different part of the house (2 story with a huge screened/closed in section below in the Philippine Islands) so we could run our mouths without disturbing the rest of the household. Well, I woke up to her hand in my pants. She wasn't a boy and I didn't know about gay people yet. Again, I had NO idea what to do with this situation. I just rolled away from her pretending I was still asleep and then went upstairs to use the bathroom. She wasn't a boy! What do I do now?! Luckily me going upstairs scared her that I would tell and when I came back down I slept further away (sleeping bags were unzipped on the floor were set up for us) and she left me alone. I never told but knew now that this could happen with girls. Now I'm 13/14 years old. I was babysitting for this family. We lived in the same neighborhood, knew the same people, and I had other friend's who babysat for these people. One of the little boys didn't want my friend to babysit any more so I was given the job. The boys loved me! Unfortunately so did dad. He would take me home (one block away) to keep me safe after dark, however, this time he wanted to run to the local 7-11 type store first. Did I want a slushy? Sure! When he pulled into the store he stuck his hand in my shirt and grabbed my boob. Not a boy, not a girl... but a grown man I worked for! Now wtf?! I just froze. My mind went blank and again I had no clue what to do about this adult neighbor/boss. I just quit the job after that. I was raised with 4 boys, mouthy, had a strong sense of self and knew how to kick some ass and I was stunned each and every single time to the point of not knowing how to deal with this type situation. And it had happened to me before but different every time. Now when my step dad tried the same crap I squealed like a pig! I knew what to do this time! I got sent to live with my grandmother. True story - every single bit. So now those of you who "don't understand" may kind of get it now. If not - oh well. May you and yours never have to deal with this or need to understand. In a nut shell - it's shocking and your mind leaves you and your body freezes on you. You just don't expect something like that to happen when you, yourself, don't think that way.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,912
|
Post by zibazinski on Jun 20, 2016 15:22:20 GMT -5
I have been thinking about that too. There are way too many conflicting messages we give to our kids. Play nice and get along, but don't let other kids take advantage of you. Listen to your teachers/parents/grands/etc., but don't listen to them if they want you to do something bad. It makes me really sad. This is so true and I'll even take it another step further. When I was about 5/6 years old my oldest step brother's friends (he wasn't with them at the time) would take me out to the barn we had on property to check me out. I had NO clue what was going on or why. They simply wanted to see what a girl looked like. They weren't hurting me and I was too clueless to be embarrassed by what they were doing to shout out nor did I have a clue what to do to get myself out of the situation. Finally my much older step sister caught them and told me to never let a boy do that to me. Yay! I was given permission to speak out and say No! When I was 11 years old my boyfriend lived next door to us. He had 3 sisters and the one that was 2 years older than us and I became good friends and hung around. I tried to "set her up" with my oldest step brother and I assumed that was why she was hanging around me more. Then we had a sleep over and she and I slept in a different part of the house (2 story with a huge screened/closed in section below in the Philippine Islands) so we could run our mouths without disturbing the rest of the household. Well, I woke up to her hand in my pants. She wasn't a boy and I didn't know about gay people yet. Again, I had NO idea what to do with this situation. I just rolled away from her pretending I was still asleep and then went upstairs to use the bathroom. She wasn't a boy! What do I do now?! Luckily me going upstairs scared her that I would tell and when I came back down I slept further away (sleeping bags were unzipped on the floor were set up for us) and she left me alone. I never told but knew now that this could happen with girls. Now I'm 13/14 years old. I was babysitting for this family. We lived in the same neighborhood, knew the same people, and I had other friend's who babysat for these people. One of the little boys didn't want my friend to babysit any more so I was given the job. The boys loved me! Unfortunately so did dad. He would take me home (one block away) to keep me safe after dark, however, this time he wanted to run to the local 7-11 type store first. Did I want a slushy? Sure! When he pulled into the store he stuck his hand in my shirt and grabbed my boob. Not a boy, not a girl... but a grown man I worked for! Now wtf?! I just froze. My mind went blank and again I had no clue what to do about this adult neighbor/boss. I just quit the job after that. I was raised with 4 boys, mouthy, had a strong sense of self and knew how to kick some ass and I was stunned each and every single time to the point of not knowing how to deal with this type situation. And it had happened to me before but different every time. Now when my step dad tried the same crap I squealed like a pig! I knew what to do this time! I got sent to live with my grandmother. True story - every single bit. So now those of you who "don't understand" may kind of get it now. If not - oh well. May you and yours never have to deal with this or need to understand. In a nut shell - it's shocking and your mind leaves you and your body freezes on you. You just don't expect something like that to happen when you, yourself, don't think that way.
|
|
lexxy703
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 26, 2011 13:52:17 GMT -5
Posts: 13,771
|
Post by lexxy703 on Jun 20, 2016 15:24:21 GMT -5
POM - thank you for sharing & you explained it so very well. I'm sorry for what you went through. I was going to like your post but somehow that just seemed wrong.
ETA since others liked so can I now
|
|
Peace Of Mind
Senior Associate
[font color="#8f2520"]~ Drinks Well With Others ~[/font]
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:53:02 GMT -5
Posts: 15,554
Location: Paradise
|
Post by Peace Of Mind on Jun 20, 2016 15:31:31 GMT -5
POM - thank you for sharing & you explained it so very well. I'm sorry for what you went through. I was going to like your post but somehow that just seemed wrong.
ETA since others liked so can I now You are welcome and I totally get your questions. I myself have asked why too and that's the best conclusion I came to so thought I'd share. I've told my stories - piece by piece - through the years I've been on these boards but seeing it all in one post (and there was even more but I knew what to do after all of that ) I really sound like a complete moron when I was young! How did I ever survive?!
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,622
|
Post by swamp on Jun 20, 2016 15:34:07 GMT -5
I have been thinking about that too. There are way too many conflicting messages we give to our kids. Play nice and get along, but don't let other kids take advantage of you. Listen to your teachers/parents/grands/etc., but don't listen to them if they want you to do something bad. It makes me really sad. This is so true and I'll even take it another step further. When I was about 5/6 years old my oldest step brother's friends (he wasn't with them at the time) would take me out to the barn we had on property to check me out. I had NO clue what was going on or why. They simply wanted to see what a girl looked like. They weren't hurting me and I was too clueless to be embarrassed by what they were doing to shout out nor did I have a clue what to do to get myself out of the situation. Finally my much older step sister caught them and told me to never let a boy do that to me. Yay! I was given permission to speak out and say No! When I was 11 years old my boyfriend lived next door to us. He had 3 sisters and the one that was 2 years older than us and I became good friends and hung around. I tried to "set her up" with my oldest step brother and I assumed that was why she was hanging around me more. Then we had a sleep over and she and I slept in a different part of the house (2 story with a huge screened/closed in section below in the Philippine Islands) so we could run our mouths without disturbing the rest of the household. Well, I woke up to her hand in my pants. She wasn't a boy and I didn't know about gay people yet. Again, I had NO idea what to do with this situation. I just rolled away from her pretending I was still asleep and then went upstairs to use the bathroom. She wasn't a boy! What do I do now?! Luckily me going upstairs scared her that I would tell and when I came back down I slept further away (sleeping bags were unzipped on the floor were set up for us) and she left me alone. I never told but knew now that this could happen with girls. Now I'm 13/14 years old. I was babysitting for this family. We lived in the same neighborhood, knew the same people, and I had other friend's who babysat for these people. One of the little boys didn't want my friend to babysit any more so I was given the job. The boys loved me! Unfortunately so did dad. He would take me home (one block away) to keep me safe after dark, however, this time he wanted to run to the local 7-11 type store first. Did I want a slushy? Sure! When he pulled into the store he stuck his hand in my shirt and grabbed my boob. Not a boy, not a girl... but a grown man I worked for! Now wtf?! I just froze. My mind went blank and again I had no clue what to do about this adult neighbor/boss. I just quit the job after that. I was raised with 4 boys, mouthy, had a strong sense of self and knew how to kick some ass and I was stunned each and every single time to the point of not knowing how to deal with this type situation. And it had happened to me before but different every time. Now when my step dad tried the same crap I squealed like a pig! I knew what to do this time! I got sent to live with my grandmother.
True story - every single bit. So now those of you who "don't understand" may kind of get it now. If not - oh well. May you and yours never have to deal with this or need to understand. In a nut shell - it's shocking and your mind leaves you and your body freezes on you. You just don't expect something like that to happen when you, yourself, don't think that way. You told. You got sent away.
Perfect illustration of why victims are reluctant to tell anyone.
|
|
lexxy703
Senior Associate
Joined: Aug 26, 2011 13:52:17 GMT -5
Posts: 13,771
|
Post by lexxy703 on Jun 20, 2016 15:37:06 GMT -5
POM - thank you for sharing & you explained it so very well. I'm sorry for what you went through. I was going to like your post but somehow that just seemed wrong.
ETA since others liked so can I now You are welcome and I totally get your questions. I myself have asked why too and that's the best conclusion I came to so thought I'd share. I've told my stories - piece by piece - through the years I've been on these boards but seeing it all in one post (and there was even more but I knew what to do after all of that ) I really sound like a complete moron when I was young! How did I ever survive?! You did have more than your fair share of creeps for sure. I like how your child's brain built on your knowledge of boy, girl, man.
|
|
ken a.k.a OMK
Senior Associate
They killed Kenny, the bastards.
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 14:39:20 GMT -5
Posts: 14,239
Location: Maryland
|
Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Jun 20, 2016 15:38:09 GMT -5
|
|
milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
Posts: 12,344
|
Post by milee on Jun 20, 2016 15:42:00 GMT -5
I've told my stories - piece by piece - through the years I've been on these boards but seeing it all in one post (and there was even more but I knew what to do after all of that ) I really sound like a complete moron when I was young! How did I ever survive?! You aren't a moron at all. You're a great example of how bad things happen to people who didn't do anything to cause the bad thing. You're also a great example of why victims don't scream, break their abuser's hand or tell anybody. You're also a great example of how multiple things happen to the same kid... not because of anything the kid did or didn't do, but partly because the kid was repeatedly exposed to high-risk situations and partly because life just happens....
|
|
Peace Of Mind
Senior Associate
[font color="#8f2520"]~ Drinks Well With Others ~[/font]
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:53:02 GMT -5
Posts: 15,554
Location: Paradise
|
Post by Peace Of Mind on Jun 20, 2016 15:44:01 GMT -5
You are welcome and I totally get your questions. I myself have asked why too and that's the best conclusion I came to so thought I'd share. I've told my stories - piece by piece - through the years I've been on these boards but seeing it all in one post (and there was even more but I knew what to do after all of that ) I really sound like a complete moron when I was young! How did I ever survive?! You did have more than your fair share of creeps for sure. I like how your child's brain built on your knowledge of boy, girl, man. Now you know why you'll see me say here "People suck!" in general. Thank you, ken a.k.a OMK and milee. I'm not looking for sympathy at all and don't want to derail this thread but I just wanted to explain how a young person's mind works when in a situation like this. Even as an adult, especially if never confronted by this kind of thing before, your mind and body can do this so please don't beat up victims too much even if they do something stupid too. They still didn't deserve what happened to them. That is all.
|
|
alabamagal
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 11:30:29 GMT -5
Posts: 8,148
|
Post by alabamagal on Jun 20, 2016 16:01:43 GMT -5
I have 2 incidents that really creeped me out in my life.
First when I was 16, part of a fund raising opportunity for band, we helped out a local professional bowling tournament. One of the bowlers started being friendly to me. I figure the guy was 40 (this is from my 16 year old perspective, I really have no idea). As you can imaging, bowlers are not always super trim athletes. I got the "I'm just in town for a while, its so lonely I don't know anyone, just join me for dinner" speech. I told him no, but the whole time he just kept asking. Never told an adult about it. I think I told my friends and we were all EWWWWW.
2nd time I was in around 40, travelling in Europe with 4 female co-workers. We had some free time and were riding a train in Switzerland. It was the kind that had 3 seats facing forward then 3 seats facing backwards, so my co-workers and I were taking up 5 of the 6 seats. Train was crowded so this 60 year old creepy guy sits in the other seat directly across from me. We were all tired and dozed off. When I woke up the creepy guy had put his foot right between my legs and was about an inch from touching me right in the crotch. I had on jeans. It's not like the seats were so close that it was accidental, it was on purpose. As soon as I woke up he moved his foot. Then I wondered what happened when I was sleeping. We were planning to get of the train at the next stop anyway. One of my co-workers said she saw his foot near me but wasn't sure how close he was or what he was doing. We were all super creeped out.
At 16 i didn't report anything, not sure there was really anything to report. At 40, again not sure what really happened and not really anything to report. If the guy did actually touch me, it would not something that would bother me as much as if I was younger.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 14, 2024 3:20:28 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2016 17:00:14 GMT -5
What's really disturbing to me is that maybe there's something in the water where I live or something, but it doesn't really seem uncommon for males to view females in a messed up way and act like it's ok to be inappropriate with girls and touch women whenever and wherever they feel like it.
I remember when DD first started developing, we'd be out in public and she'd come and get glued to my side because some grown ass man was making her uncomfortable trying to approach her. Of course she was never out with me with all her goodies hanging out and if they ever looked above her neck, she was obviously a kid (she didn't even like or wear any makeup, so it's not like she looked older than she was), but that didn't deter the jackasses.
At my job, they have surveys every year that they want employees to fill out anonymously. One of the questions is something like have you been sexually harassed on the job in the past year. For years, my honest answer was yes. Some of the men I've worked with think it's ok to try to make you hug them whether you want to or not, and some of them think it's ok to touch you on your butt, breasts or crotch. That's not even counting the wildly inappropriate things they say. I don't think these men run around treating random women like that (maybe they do, I have no idea), I think they feel like they "know" you because they see you every day, but that doesn't mean I want to hear that crap or want you touching me. Do I really have to tell or show you that? And the married men were the worst!
I've never dressed provocatively and I'm under no illusion that I'm the sexiest woman ever, so I don't think how women dress has much to do with the reaction they get from some men. It just seems like a lot of men view women as some kind of sexualized object that exist for them to play with. How did that happen?
Even my neighbor, as I'm yelling and cussing at him, wishing I could rain down fire from the heavens on his head, had the nerve to say he hoped we could still be friends, like what he'd done was no big deal. Where they do that at?
I think I mentioned it here before, but some years ago I had a conversation with a couple of police officers who were talking about how surprised they were to learn how many people have stories about sexual assault and abuse. Just being out in the community and talking to people, they said they hear a lot. These people aren't making official reports, just making conversation and I guess they feel safe talking about it to a random police officer. One of the officers said it seems like almost everybody has a story. I don't know if these officers' perceptions were skewed because of their jobs or what, but listening to them made me very sad that so many people in our "civilized" society have been victimized.
But I really do wonder wtf is wrong with people with all this inappropriate and abusive sexual shit. It's very disturbing when it happens to an adult, it's beyond disturbing when it's a child. I understand that there are going to be some depraved individuals in any society, but I wonder why it seems so common for people to think they can just do whatever they want to whoever and it's all ok.
|
|
MJ2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 24, 2014 10:27:09 GMT -5
Posts: 11,049
|
Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 20, 2016 17:26:56 GMT -5
In a lot of ways we've become a society more interested in our own individual wants and less concerned with respecting the wishes of others. You all laughed at my stories of getting peen pics from guys, but that is harassment - especially since I didn't ask for them. I don't know why some men think this is an acceptable thing to do. All I can assume is that it must have worked on at least one woman.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,912
|
Post by zibazinski on Jun 20, 2016 17:33:56 GMT -5
Guys have an inflated view of themselves, in more ways than one.
|
|
NastyWoman
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 20:50:37 GMT -5
Posts: 14,888
|
Post by NastyWoman on Jun 20, 2016 18:53:41 GMT -5
I have been thinking about that too. There are way too many conflicting messages we give to our kids. Play nice and get along, but don't let other kids take advantage of you. Listen to your teachers/parents/grands/etc., but don't listen to them if they want you to do something bad. It makes me really sad. This is so true and I'll even take it another step further. When I was about 5/6 years old my oldest step brother's friends (he wasn't with them at the time) would take me out to the barn we had on property to check me out. I had NO clue what was going on or why. They simply wanted to see what a girl looked like. They weren't hurting me and I was too clueless to be embarrassed by what they were doing to shout out nor did I have a clue what to do to get myself out of the situation. Finally my much older step sister caught them and told me to never let a boy do that to me. Yay! I was given permission to speak out and say No! When I was 11 years old my boyfriend lived next door to us. He had 3 sisters and the one that was 2 years older than us and I became good friends and hung around. I tried to "set her up" with my oldest step brother and I assumed that was why she was hanging around me more. Then we had a sleep over and she and I slept in a different part of the house (2 story with a huge screened/closed in section below in the Philippine Islands) so we could run our mouths without disturbing the rest of the household. Well, I woke up to her hand in my pants. She wasn't a boy and I didn't know about gay people yet. Again, I had NO idea what to do with this situation. I just rolled away from her pretending I was still asleep and then went upstairs to use the bathroom. She wasn't a boy! What do I do now?! Luckily me going upstairs scared her that I would tell and when I came back down I slept further away (sleeping bags were unzipped on the floor were set up for us) and she left me alone. I never told but knew now that this could happen with girls. Now I'm 13/14 years old. I was babysitting for this family. We lived in the same neighborhood, knew the same people, and I had other friend's who babysat for these people. One of the little boys didn't want my friend to babysit any more so I was given the job. The boys loved me! Unfortunately so did dad. He would take me home (one block away) to keep me safe after dark, however, this time he wanted to run to the local 7-11 type store first. Did I want a slushy? Sure! When he pulled into the store he stuck his hand in my shirt and grabbed my boob. Not a boy, not a girl... but a grown man I worked for! Now wtf?! I just froze. My mind went blank and again I had no clue what to do about this adult neighbor/boss. I just quit the job after that. I was raised with 4 boys, mouthy, had a strong sense of self and knew how to kick some ass and I was stunned each and every single time to the point of not knowing how to deal with this type situation. And it had happened to me before but different every time. Now when my step dad tried the same crap I squealed like a pig! I knew what to do this time! I got sent to live with my grandmother. True story - every single bit. So now those of you who "don't understand" may kind of get it now. If not - oh well. May you and yours never have to deal with this or need to understand. In a nut shell - it's shocking and your mind leaves you and your body freezes on you. You just don't expect something like that to happen when you, yourself, don't think that way. I am very sorry that all of this happened to you POM, but thank you for sharing. THIS (although not necessarily from you personally) was what I would hope someone would do. Give an honest explantion as to why the girl might not have cried out. I also believe that for most posters a real explanation of why was what they were looking for when they asked "why". While I can't speak for others, for me at least "why" was not in any way trying to blame a victim, but trying to understand her.
|
|
Pants
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 19:26:44 GMT -5
Posts: 7,579
|
Post by Pants on Jun 20, 2016 19:11:48 GMT -5
The flight attendant should have moved the girl when the guy sat down next to her. That is certainly questionable behavior on his part.
I don't understand why the girl didn't cream or push his hand away. I probably would have broken his damn arm if he groped me when I was 13. Oh, I don't know, maybe she was scared?
She's 13, cut her some slack.
TWO POSTS. TWO POSTS BEFORE IT'S HER FAULT GUYS.
|
|
Pants
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 19:26:44 GMT -5
Posts: 7,579
|
Post by Pants on Jun 20, 2016 19:18:41 GMT -5
In a lot of ways we've become a society more interested in our own individual wants and less concerned with respecting the wishes of others. You all laughed at my stories of getting peen pics from guys, but that is harassment - especially since I didn't ask for them. I don't know why some men think this is an acceptable thing to do. All I can assume is that it must have worked on at least one woman. I don't think it's that it works on women. These guys are modern day flashers - they get pleasure out of knowing that they forced you to see their junk.
|
|
cronewitch
Junior Associate
I identify as a post-menopausal childless cat lady and I vote.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:44:20 GMT -5
Posts: 5,979
|
Post by cronewitch on Jun 20, 2016 20:04:37 GMT -5
Can I ask about this? I think this also may be a source of the dramatically different point of views and not understanding the other perspective. I've heard this before, and I can truly say I don't understand it. (I guess it means I wasn't raised this way). What and how were you taught this, by whom? ETA: asking finnime but if anyone has answers I'd love to hear them. I was taught - by other kids, by adults too - to not make a big fuss about accidents or minor disagreements. Get along with others. No tattle-taling. When you spend a lot of time in your childhood with siblings, you have to get along and find some ways to deal with being teased. Okay to fight back, but not overreact. So when an adult brushes against you, or grabs you to tickle you, you ignore it or go someplace else. And if you can't go someplace else - you don't really know how to respond. So maybe the brush against you was accidental? What about next time? I do think now that some strategies can and should be discussed with children, including teens, so everyone is clear: it is okay to risk embarrassing others; it is okay to make a scene sometimes. And those times are when you are uncomfortable with the way someone is approaching or touching you. Most woman/girls are taught to be nice, not offend. If you are on an elevator and someone scary gets on would you get off? If a scary man is walking behind you and did nothing wrong would you start running? Most wouldn't because the scary person didn't do anything wrong and will be offended that you were scared of him. If he is another race you are a racist. If you are wrong 30 times and offend 30 innocent people it doesn't mean number 31 is innocent too and the ten seconds you hesitated you could have become a victim. They claim only 25% of woman and girls have been assaulted but I think it is many more, we don't tend to talk about it. My first was when babysitting the man let me hold his pet skunk and was showing me how to hold it when the back of his hand rubbed my breast. I was bothered but didn't say anything, he asked if it was bothering me and quit but I know he did it on purpose. When I was 18 a worker in the factory and I took a freight elevator together and he stopped it between floors and mashed me into a corner, felt me up and kissed me until I could find the button to start the elevator again. I never told anyone it was disgusting but it was over and telling wasn't something I even considered. If I told maybe they would claim I wanted it or shouldn't have used the elevator. We may have both been fired.
|
|