midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 20, 2016 11:37:52 GMT -5
Why does the thought process of the 13yo even matter?
I'd rather understand the thought processes of the flight attendant who apparently saw nothing wrong with a middle-aged man requesting the center seat next to an unaccompanied teen and refusing offers to be seated alone, especially if that flight attendant is still employed by American Airlines.
Or the thought processes of those who are in charge of setting airline policy and didn't take efforts to educate their staff after the last time this happened on an AA flight (apparently not too long ago).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2016 11:38:26 GMT -5
I'm sorry but saying "why didn't she xyz" is a completely pointless and IMO shitty response. No it's the same as wondering these things: So in the second set... you aren't blaming the American staff for sitting her far back and not moving her? Or are you giving them some of the blame. I think you are right. It is the same.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 20, 2016 11:38:34 GMT -5
Who the hell seats an adult male next to a 13 year old? Ick The adult male looking to cop a feel. It's not normal to begin with and should have brought out the red flags right away.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 20, 2016 11:39:15 GMT -5
We were taught about stranger danger. We were taught to make as much noise as possible & fight, bite, scratch whatever it took. That is my mindset & why I don't understand her lack of reaction. Maybe her parents didn't teach her the same things mine did. Or maybe she's very passive/meek/shy/withdrawn and they guy picked up on that.
He's not going to target the boisterous, outgoing, and confident kid.
I agree with that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2016 11:40:20 GMT -5
Exactly. We hear all of the time about kids molested by friends of the family,family, teachers, etc. I always wanted to know WHY they never told...not because any of it was their fault but so I could understand their thought process.
As usual, I don't understand how anyone makes the leap from that to blaming the victim.
Possibly because they are met with people wondering why they didn't tell sooner. Wondering why they didn't scream when it happened. Wondering why they didn't push the person away. Not blaming them, just wondering why they did everything the wrong way.I don't blame you. I just want to you to know that you did everything wrong. I mean, just because you did everything wrong, i'm not saying that you doing everything wrong contributed in any way... but like, you were obviously wrong... and if you had done the right things... well, i'm just staying it probably wouldn't have happened. but, like, i'm not blaming you or anything....
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 20, 2016 11:41:54 GMT -5
I will kill your dog if you tell.
I will beat you/your mom if you tell.
If you tell, it's going to break up the family, I'll lose my job, and it will be all your fault.
I'm an adult, you're a kid, nobody is going to believe you.
Look at the trouble you've been in, who's going to believe you?
Look at everything I've done for you, and this is our special bond, why would you tell anyone?
That's just a sampling.
And that's the scary part. Because my daughter has my personality so I've always assumed she would be the one to tell the perv to fuck off and tell me. But I have found out that people I know to be strong people were molested as children. It is honestly something I can't wrap my brain around. And that is NOT shaming the victim ffs, it is me not understanding. What if the perv was her uncle, or a family friend, or someone close to the family? They don't just swoop in and start molesting. They groom the kids. They form a relationship. They have some position of authority over the kid. Sometimes they start young enough that the kid doesn't even realize this isn't normal behavior. They pick kids that are meek and mild, not the outgoing ones from supportive families.
One example, there was a cop that coached hockey. He would "help out" the struggling families. Buy their hockey equipment, pay for tournaments, work extra with the kids. And then he was molesting them. Who would have believed these kids? Mom is a drunk, dad is in prison, and this good guy cop is butt fucking 10 year olds who just want to play hockey.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 20, 2016 11:42:31 GMT -5
Why does the thought process of the 13yo even matter?I'd rather understand the thought processes of the flight attendant who apparently saw nothing wrong with a middle-aged man requesting the center seat next to an unaccompanied teen and refusing offers to be seated alone, especially if that flight attendant is still employed by American Airlines. Or the thought processes of those who are in charge of setting airline policy and didn't take efforts to educate their staff after the last time this happened on an AA flight (apparently not too long ago). I can't speak for anyone else...but it matters a lot to me! I use what I learn to teach my children in helpful ways. I didn't just explain "stranger danger" because my kids thought everyone they say was their friend...only creepy people weren't strangers to them.
I can't understand how you wouldn't want to know what goes through a kids' mind in that situation.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 20, 2016 11:44:35 GMT -5
The problem with stranger danger is that it usually isn't a stranger molesting a kid.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 20, 2016 11:44:45 GMT -5
And that's the scary part. Because my daughter has my personality so I've always assumed she would be the one to tell the perv to fuck off and tell me. But I have found out that people I know to be strong people were molested as children. It is honestly something I can't wrap my brain around. And that is NOT shaming the victim ffs, it is me not understanding. What if the perv was her uncle, or a family friend, or someone close to the family? They don't just swoop in and start molesting. They groom the kids. They form a relationship. They have some position of authority over the kid. Sometimes they start young enough that the kid doesn't even realize this isn't normal behavior. They pick kids that are meek and mild, not the outgoing ones from supportive families.
One example, there was a cop that coached hockey. He would "help out" the struggling families. Buy their hockey equipment, pay for tournaments, work extra with the kids. And then he was molesting them. Who would have believed these kids? Mom is a drunk, dad is in prison, and this good guy cop is butt fucking 10 year olds who just want to play hockey.
All this. Kids are way more likely to be violated by someone they know or are related to than a stranger. The whole "stranger danger" angle doesn't address that at all.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 20, 2016 11:45:09 GMT -5
And that's the scary part. Because my daughter has my personality so I've always assumed she would be the one to tell the perv to fuck off and tell me. But I have found out that people I know to be strong people were molested as children. It is honestly something I can't wrap my brain around. And that is NOT shaming the victim ffs, it is me not understanding. What if the perv was her uncle, or a family friend, or someone close to the family? They don't just swoop in and start molesting. They groom the kids. They form a relationship. They have some position of authority over the kid. Sometimes they start young enough that the kid doesn't even realize this isn't normal behavior. They pick kids that are meek and mild, not the outgoing ones from supportive families.
One example, there was a cop that coached hockey. He would "help out" the struggling families. Buy their hockey equipment, pay for tournaments, work extra with the kids. And then he was molesting them. Who would have believed these kids? Mom is a drunk, dad is in prison, and this good guy cop is butt fucking 10 year olds who just want to play hockey.
I never trust those "do gooders" that choose to be around children. You just never know...and it is sad because there are some good people out there just wanted to help disadvantaged children. I view them as potential predators.
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DagnyT
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Post by DagnyT on Jun 20, 2016 11:45:58 GMT -5
We were taught about stranger danger. We were taught to make as much noise as possible & fight, bite, scratch whatever it took. That is my mindset & why I don't understand her lack of reaction. Maybe her parents didn't teach her the same things mine did. Yes. She must just not have been taught right. Because we all know that if SHE had only acted in the APPROPRIATE way..... this never should have happened. And that is why it will never happen to you, or your neices, or your child. Sigh.... Your reading comprehension skills might need some work. Lexy never said or implied, "if SHE only acted in the APPROPRIATE way....." I believe, no, I know that Lexy would agree that "this never should have happened." She also never said that it would never happen to her, or her nieces, or her child. Screaming would have brought the flight attendant to the girl's seat and helped get the girl out of this horrible, and not her fault, situation sooner. That is all anyone is inferring. No blame is being put on the victim.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 20, 2016 11:46:24 GMT -5
Our pediatrician took hundreds of pictures of his patients private parts going back to the 1980's. He used a hidden camera on his laser pen.
Absolutely blew my mind because pediatricians have been on the list of people I/my child is supposed to be able to trust for as long as I can remember.
Before this incident it never in a million years would have occurred to me to question if my child's doctor is using a secret camera to get pictures of my child's privates during an exam.
You can bet it enters my mind now and it's a constant battle in my brain between being a watchful parent and crossing over into crazy paranoid parent.
I mean I've always been told that it could be anyone, but in the back of my head I still have the "guy in the van" image in my head that was so popular in the 1980's. This incident shook me to the core. It was one thing to hear the message. .. it was another thing to have put in my face.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 20, 2016 11:47:16 GMT -5
The problem with stranger danger is that it usually isn't a stranger molesting a kid. Not only that but what a child perceives as a stranger is not the same as adults. If someone lived in our neighborhood they weren't a stranger! If they recognized them from somewhere, they weren't a stranger! I have two of the most outgoing kids around...my oldest told me once "there are no strangers, just friends I haven't met yet"!LOL
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 20, 2016 11:47:22 GMT -5
What if the perv was her uncle, or a family friend, or someone close to the family? They don't just swoop in and start molesting. They groom the kids. They form a relationship. They have some position of authority over the kid. Sometimes they start young enough that the kid doesn't even realize this isn't normal behavior. They pick kids that are meek and mild, not the outgoing ones from supportive families.
One example, there was a cop that coached hockey. He would "help out" the struggling families. Buy their hockey equipment, pay for tournaments, work extra with the kids. And then he was molesting them. Who would have believed these kids? Mom is a drunk, dad is in prison, and this good guy cop is butt fucking 10 year olds who just want to play hockey.
I never trust those "do gooders" that choose to be around children. You just never know...and it is sad because there are some good people out there just wanted to help disadvantaged children. I view them as potential predators. did you always, or it recent since more child sex abuse cases make it to the news?
I never gave it a second thought until I was about 30, and then I had been practicing law long enough to see the pattern.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jun 20, 2016 11:47:54 GMT -5
I just really cannot see this happening without them saying something. I guess she is a mousy little thing & was too terrified to utter a sound.
I am not a mousy little thing. At all. Even when I was little, I was brash and considered brave. But I understand completely how these things happen. The guy didn't just walk up to her and immediately grab her - which might have shocked her into a strong reaction or might not depending on how she was raised. It all happened slowly and every step wasn't a large increment from the last step, so - like a frog being boiled in water - you don't see a large enough change to warrant a strong reaction that might embarrass you or draw unwanted attention. When I was 17 I was at a party and very flattered that a really hot lifeguard who also modeled on the side seemed interested in me. He was a good 10 years older than me. He invited me, my friend who was dating one of his friends and that friend to go back to his house for a drink. As a naïve 17 year old I didn't understand that meant more than a drink and happily went, even riding with him and leaving my car at the party. My friend and her boyfriend were getting very friendly on his couch so he laughed and said we should give them some privacy...leading me into his bedroom. Again, very dumb of me to go in there but I was embarrassed at my friend making out next to me and it seemed a reasonable step to leave them alone. So we go into the bedroom and he starts kissing me. OK with me - he was incredibly handsome and a 17 year old's dream date (isn't that funny, I think of the word date because that's how I thought. Obviously not what was happening at all, but shows how naïve I was). When he started to take off my clothes, I told him I wasn't going to sleep with him and he said that was fine. But he really didn't stop. And without going into any more details, he just patiently kept at what he was doing and each little step seemed not a huge step from the last step even though I wasn't comfortable with any of it. And part of the problem was that I was embarrassed. I didn't want to run away because the idea of anybody else seeing me without all my clothes on was embarrassing, I didn't want to yell for help because that seemed really melodramatic and also embarrassing because my friend and her boyfriend would be interrupted and have to come "rescue" me, I didn't have my car or any way to leave and wasn't sure how that would work if I couldn't get him to take me back to my car, etc. It's not even that I didn't like him it was just all moving way too fast for me and not what I wanted. Plus, as an adult I realize now that I was raised in a very authoritarian abusive house so I was well conditioned to really pick my battles because if I disagreed with an adult about anything it was WWIII, so my natural defense was to be quiet, keep your clothes on as best you can, don't participate, detach from what was happening and focus on the future. Was I dumb and naïve in this situation? Yes, yes, yes!!! But that doesn't mean it was OK for him to take advantage of that, which is what I know now he did. Similar with the girl on the plane. The first signal that she should just shut up and deal with the situation was when the flight attendant offered for the guy to move and he said "no" and the flight attendant let that stand. Clear signal that the adults around might not care or get involved in whatever the guy was doing. Then, it's obvious that he slowly ramped up the behavior. First, it was only words. And she probably steeled herself to ignore it - which is what we teach young girls to do when people say offensive things. Then, he slowly moved on to getting into her personal space by looking out the window. Then he moved on to incidental contact with the page turning. And each time, even though she wasn't comfortable, the next step wasn't a big increment from the last step and she was just ignoring and waiting for it to stop... So for all of you who can't imagine how a 13 year old didn't scream or slap him, I'm very, very glad that you have lead a life where you have not had to ever encounter this and are free to wonder. But I think for many people who have ever been in situations where they were vulnerable, they can understand perfectly well how it happens.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 20, 2016 11:48:44 GMT -5
Did you ever do a school play or recital or hell even have to give a report in front of the class? One where you rehearsed and went over and over what to say, until you thought you knew it. And then you went up there and just drew a blank, maybe you didn't forget all of it, but you forgot some of it. Just flew out of your head. Bye bye all that practice and rehearsal, all for naught.
And you forgot it without a scary adult assaulting you.
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lexxy703
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Post by lexxy703 on Jun 20, 2016 11:48:45 GMT -5
Yes. She must just not have been taught right. Because we all know that if SHE had only acted in the APPROPRIATE way..... this never should have happened. And that is why it will never happen to you, or your neices, or your child. Sigh.... Your reading comprehension skills might need some work. Lexy never said or implied, "if SHE only acted in the APPROPRIATE way....." I believe, no, I know that Lexy would agree that "this never should have happened." She also never said that it would never happen to her, or her nieces, or her child. Screaming would have brought the flight attendant to the girl's seat and helped get the girl out of this horrible, and not her fault, situation sooner. That is all anyone is inferring. No blame is being put on the victim. Thank you DagnyT.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 20, 2016 11:48:58 GMT -5
Oh FFS... really, do we have to do this here? Can we all just reread what each other said in the other thread and assume our arguments are still valid and not replay this? Talk about
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 20, 2016 11:50:15 GMT -5
Why does the thought process of the 13yo even matter?I'd rather understand the thought processes of the flight attendant who apparently saw nothing wrong with a middle-aged man requesting the center seat next to an unaccompanied teen and refusing offers to be seated alone, especially if that flight attendant is still employed by American Airlines. Or the thought processes of those who are in charge of setting airline policy and didn't take efforts to educate their staff after the last time this happened on an AA flight (apparently not too long ago). I can't speak for anyone else...but it matters a lot to me! I use what I learn to teach my children in helpful ways. I didn't just explain "stranger danger" because my kids thought everyone they say was their friend...only creepy people weren't strangers to them.
I can't understand how you wouldn't want to know what goes through a kids' mind in that situation.
Well, I'm not the one saying I don't understand why molested kids wouldn't tell... I understand the psychology behind it pretty well (and if I didn't, there is plenty of info available online). But "wondering" to a message board why a random 13yo girl didn't scream while being molested on a flight probably isn't going to give me much information of use when it comes to teaching my own daughter, even if we were all trained psychologists. Every kid is different. It could have been one of any multitude of reasons that may or may not apply to anyone else. The best you can do is educate yourself on the psychology of abusers and keep an open dialogue with your kid so that s/he is comfortable coming to you if something does happen.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 20, 2016 11:51:26 GMT -5
I can't speak for anyone else...but it matters a lot to me! I use what I learn to teach my children in helpful ways. I didn't just explain "stranger danger" because my kids thought everyone they say was their friend...only creepy people weren't strangers to them.
I can't understand how you wouldn't want to know what goes through a kids' mind in that situation.
Well, I'm not the one saying I don't understand why molested kids wouldn't tell... I understand the psychology behind it pretty well (and if I didn't, there is plenty of info available online). But "wondering" to a message board why a random 13yo girl didn't scream while being molested on a flight probably isn't going to give me much information of use when it comes to teaching my own daughter. Every kid is different. It could have been one of any multitude of reasons that may or may not apply to anyone else. We will have to agree to disagree on this. The fact that you don't think this should be discussed has no relevance on what I think
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 20, 2016 11:54:22 GMT -5
Most do-gooders are legit. The predators are in the minority but we hear about them more.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 20, 2016 11:54:27 GMT -5
Yes. She must just not have been taught right. Because we all know that if SHE had only acted in the APPROPRIATE way..... this never should have happened. And that is why it will never happen to you, or your neices, or your child. Sigh.... Your reading comprehension skills might need some work. Lexy never said or implied, "if SHE only acted in the APPROPRIATE way....." I believe, no, I know that Lexy would agree that "this never should have happened." She also never said that it would never happen to her, or her nieces, or her child. Screaming would have brought the flight attendant to the girl's seat and helped get the girl out of this horrible, and not her fault, situation sooner. That is all anyone is inferring. No blame is being put on the victim. She THINKS it would have never happened to her or her nieces if they faced the situation. She doesn't know. I think I know how I'm going to react too much more mundane things in life. Often enough I don't do the things that I thought I would do.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 20, 2016 11:56:54 GMT -5
Oh FFS... really, do we have to do this here? Can we all just reread what each other said in the other thread and assume our arguments are still valid and not replay this? Talk about I don't think it's a dead horse.
What if some kid we know discloses abuse to us? Do you want some discussion about what may make him/her delay disclosure? Some insight on how the predator may have done this?
If your child/niece/neighbor discloses to you, are you going to first ask that person "how come you waited so long to tell me? did you scream, tell them no, hit them?"
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 20, 2016 11:59:14 GMT -5
I just really cannot see this happening without them saying something. I guess she is a mousy little thing & was too terrified to utter a sound.
I am not a mousy little thing. At all. Even when I was little, I was brash and considered brave. But I understand completely how these things happen. The guy didn't just walk up to her and immediately grab her - which might have shocked her into a strong reaction or might not depending on how she was raised. It all happened slowly and every step wasn't a large increment from the last step, so - like a frog being boiled in water - you don't see a large enough change to warrant a strong reaction that might embarrass you or draw unwanted attention. When I was 17 I was at a party and very flattered that a really hot lifeguard who also modeled on the side seemed interested in me. He was a good 10 years older than me. He invited me, my friend who was dating one of his friends and that friend to go back to his house for a drink. As a naïve 17 year old I didn't understand that meant more than a drink and happily went, even riding with him and leaving my car at the party. My friend and her boyfriend were getting very friendly on his couch so he laughed and said we should give them some privacy...leading me into his bedroom. Again, very dumb of me to go in there but I was embarrassed at my friend making out next to me and it seemed a reasonable step to leave them alone. So we go into the bedroom and he starts kissing me. OK with me - he was incredibly handsome and a 17 year old's dream date (isn't that funny, I think of the word date because that's how I thought. Obviously not what was happening at all, but shows how naïve I was). When he started to take off my clothes, I told him I wasn't going to sleep with him and he said that was fine. But he really didn't stop. And without going into any more details, he just patiently kept at what he was doing and each little step seemed not a huge step from the last step even though I wasn't comfortable with any of it. And part of the problem was that I was embarrassed. I didn't want to run away because the idea of anybody else seeing me without all my clothes on was embarrassing, I didn't want to yell for help because that seemed really melodramatic and also embarrassing because my friend and her boyfriend would be interrupted and have to come "rescue" me, I didn't have my car or any way to leave and wasn't sure how that would work if I couldn't get him to take me back to my car, etc. It's not even that I didn't like him it was just all moving way too fast for me and not what I wanted. Plus, as an adult I realize now that I was raised in a very authoritarian abusive house so I was well conditioned to really pick my battles because if I disagreed with an adult about anything it was WWIII, so my natural defense was to be quiet, keep your clothes on as best you can, don't participate, detach from what was happening and focus on the future. Was I dumb and naïve in this situation? Yes, yes, yes!!! But that doesn't mean it was OK for him to take advantage of that, which is what I know now he did. Similar with the girl on the plane. The first signal that she should just shut up and deal with the situation was when the flight attendant offered for the guy to move and he said "no" and the flight attendant let that stand. Clear signal that the adults around might not care or get involved in whatever the guy was doing. Then, it's obvious that he slowly ramped up the behavior. First, it was only words. And she probably steeled herself to ignore it - which is what we teach young girls to do when people say offensive things. Then, he slowly moved on to getting into her personal space by looking out the window. Then he moved on to incidental contact with the page turning. And each time, even though she wasn't comfortable, the next step wasn't a big increment from the last step and she was just ignoring and waiting for it to stop... So for all of you who can't imagine how a 13 year old didn't scream or slap him, I'm very, very glad that you have lead a life where you have not had to ever encounter this and are free to wonder. But I think for many people who have ever been in situations where they were vulnerable, they can understand perfectly well how it happens. And now my story...I was that 13. My mom's creepy boyfriend started coming on to me when she left to run some errands...in no uncertain terms I told him I would cut him if he kept it up and then I would call my dad and they would never find the body...and then I bolted from the house. From a very young age that is what I was told to do by my dad (along with kick in the nuts, claw at the eyes, scream FIRE at the top of my lungs (because that is what will get attention), hitting someone if they jump in front of my car, and a bunch of other things). I have taught my daughter the same things...hopefully she never had to use them.
And the above two scenarios are the basis of my wanting to understand what makes a kid tick...not because I'm blaming some child but because perhaps what I'm teaching is not enough. Why did milee go one way and I went the other ?
I wouldn't have even asked on this thread but since everyone was jumping on lexxy for even wondering I jumped in.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 20, 2016 12:00:06 GMT -5
Most do-gooders are legit. The predators are in the minority but we hear about them more. I'm sure that's true but I don't trust people. When kids are involved I am definitely choosing caution over anything else. Sad that is the world we live in.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 20, 2016 12:00:37 GMT -5
... Similar with the girl on the plane. The first signal that she should just shut up and deal with the situation was when the flight attendant offered for the guy to move and he said "no" and the flight attendant let that stand. Clear signal that the adults around might not care or get involved in whatever the guy was doing. Then, it's obvious that he slowly ramped up the behavior. First, it was only words. And she probably steeled herself to ignore it - which is what we teach young girls to do when people say offensive things. Then, he slowly moved on to getting into her personal space by looking out the window. Then he moved on to incidental contact with the page turning. And each time, even though she wasn't comfortable, the next step wasn't a big increment from the last step and she was just ignoring and waiting for it to stop... So for all of you who can't imagine how a 13 year old didn't scream or slap him, I'm very, very glad that you have lead a life where you have not had to ever encounter this and are free to wonder. But I think for many people who have ever been in situations where they were vulnerable, they can understand perfectly well how it happens.Or maybe they have... You really do make good points here and it goes back to what I was trying to get out about the predator/prey thing. This guy was an opportunist, he saw what he thought was going to be an easy target and started. Because of the dumbass flight attendants he was able to take advantage of the situation to assault the girl.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 20, 2016 12:02:58 GMT -5
I never trust those "do gooders" that choose to be around children. You just never know...and it is sad because there are some good people out there just wanted to help disadvantaged children. I view them as potential predators. did you always, or it recent since more child sex abuse cases make it to the news?
I never gave it a second thought until I was about 30, and then I had been practicing law long enough to see the pattern.
Not when I was a kid. But as an adult it screams "perv" to me to have anyone be that involved with kids when they aren't their own. And I'm sure it has to do with all of the media coverage. I was llike that before I had kids.
I told the story about my ex wanting to remove my oldest from her first daycare (he was worse than me!). The owners brother worked there and he thought the guy was clearly a perv out to molest kids because "what man wants to be around toddlers all day long"!lol
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Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 20, 2016 12:05:54 GMT -5
I don't think it's a dead horse.
What if some kid we know discloses abuse to us? Do you want some discussion about what may make him/her delay disclosure? Some insight on how the predator may have done this?
If your child/niece/neighbor discloses to you, are you going to first ask that person "how come you waited so long to tell me? did you scream, tell them no, hit them?"
I certainly wouldn't ask the child why they didn't scream, etc. but if it were my kid and the molestation went on for ages and they didn't tell me, I would want to know what I did to fail them like that. That they wouldn't have felt like I could protect them from anything. I certainly couldn't ask it but that is exactly what I would be thinking.
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billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 38,242
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 20, 2016 12:13:43 GMT -5
On a different note: I would like to read articles about situations like this in which an attorney involved in the lawsuit isn't the source of information.
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ArchietheDragon
Junior Associate
Joined: Jul 7, 2014 14:29:23 GMT -5
Posts: 6,380
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jun 20, 2016 12:14:35 GMT -5
On a different note: I would like to read articles about situations like this in which an attorney involved in the lawsuit isn't the source of information. In those situations the parties involved need to get better attorneys.
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