milee
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Post by milee on Jun 18, 2016 10:44:41 GMT -5
I'm guessing the reason was money. (I would have gladly paid for my ticket though). And she's always harping on my husband that he would enjoy himself if he went out more, so I guess she wants to show him. We (me, daughter, fiance) have gone plenty of places, but my husband always bows out. Also, my daughter and fiance went to three football games last year with both his parents, but none of the games were as a gift. And I completely understand why you were hurt! So if you go place with just the three of you - you, daughter, fiancé - then why should it be a big deal that they do something just the three of them - husband, daughter, fiancé? I'm assuming when you go places without your husband, it's not to be hurtful to him, it's for other reasons. Just like with this present, there were probably other reasons than to exclude you.
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Jun 18, 2016 10:47:28 GMT -5
Yes, As I've said, I don't think they were deliberatly rude. And yes, I'm so mad that I do want to be a mean mother/ MIL. I did say I would bring it up with her at a later date when I'm cooler. But my mind doesn't forget. Tell them how this made you feel. They can't read minds (well, I'm assuming they can't; I could be wrong), and they need to know so they can think things through more effectively in the future.
FWIW, I think this was breathtakingly rude, but because it was so blatant and there do not seem to have been any bad feelings or difficulties among the parties beforehand, it was probably just completely unintentional and clueless. They're not likely to have an epiphany with respect to unintended consequences unless they are made aware of the consequences, so tell them sooner rather than later.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Jun 18, 2016 10:58:46 GMT -5
Yes, As I've said, I don't think they were deliberatly rude. And yes, I'm so mad that I do want to be a mean mother/ MIL. I did say I would bring it up with her at a later date when I'm cooler. But my mind doesn't forget. Tell them how this made you feel. They can't read minds (well, I'm assuming they can't; I could be wrong), and they need to know so they can think things through more effectively in the future.
FWIW, I think this was breathtakingly rude, but because it was so blatant and there do not seem to have been any bad feelings or difficulties among the parties beforehand, it was probably just completely unintentional and clueless. They're not likely to have an epiphany with respect to unintended consequences unless they are made aware of the consequences, so tell them sooner rather than later.
I think it's to late. She said it was a game changer already. That sorta negates airing out the problem. Sounds like line has been drawn in the sandbox.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 11:08:39 GMT -5
I think this was breathtakingly rude,
Can you explain why? Because I just don't get it...
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Jun 18, 2016 11:12:10 GMT -5
I think this was breathtakingly rude,
Can you explain why? Because I just don't get it... Then it is unlikely any explanation would suffice.
It is my opinion that the deliberate exclusion of one family member was rude. I don't know how to explain that any differently.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 11:20:50 GMT -5
Can you explain why? Because I just don't get it... Then it is unlikely any explanation would suffice.
It is my opinion that the deliberate exclusion of one family member was rude. I don't know how to explain that any differently.
So an experience gift must be given to more than the person who is being celebrated? Kids can't give an experience gift to mom or dad, but must include both? Does it end with spouces? Im not being snarky. It really doesn't make sense to me and I'm trying to understand the thinking. To me this is probably more an issue with OP not accepting that daughter is now her own family unit. The kids now include daughter and her fiancé. I think that is where the issue may be lurking.
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Happy prose
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Post by Happy prose on Jun 18, 2016 11:20:57 GMT -5
Ok, if we were to invite my daughter out to dinner for her birthday, do you think it would be ok to not invite her partner? They live together. I think that would be an awful thing to do! If you took your daughter to a spa for her birthday, would you take her SO? That is more comparable. No, wouldn't invite SO, but my SO wouldn't be coming either!
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Jun 18, 2016 11:33:56 GMT -5
Then it is unlikely any explanation would suffice.
It is my opinion that the deliberate exclusion of one family member was rude. I don't know how to explain that any differently.
So an experience gift must be given to more than the person who is being celebrated? Kids can't give an experience gift to mom or dad, but must include both? Does it end with spouces? Im not being snarky. It really doesn't make sense to me and I'm trying to understand the thinking. To me this is probably more an issue with OP not accepting that daughter is now her own family unit. The kids now include daughter and her fiancé. I think that is where the issue may be lurking. Well then, we'll probably just have to agree to disagree.
I expect we're all thinking about this from the point of view of the dynamics in our own families. If I had wanted to offer an experience gift to just my father, I would have mentioned it to my mother beforehand. She would certainly not have objected and would, in fact, have encouraged me to do so, but I would have needed her support to get my father on board. It would have been he who would have objected to what he would have seen as the exclusion of my mother. In any event, whenever I wanted to take one of them somewhere, I always invited the other parent or otherwise offered to include both because they just always liked to be together. I understand that other families are different. In my family, deliberately excluding one parent would have been hurtful.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jun 18, 2016 11:38:33 GMT -5
If you took your daughter to a spa for her birthday, would you take her SO? That is more comparable. No, wouldn't invite SO, but my SO wouldn't be coming either! But you've already said you (alone and without your husband) do things with your daughter and fiancé. Why is it different if they (daughter and fiancé) do something with just your husband? Didn't you already kind of set the expectation that it's OK to do things with the 3 of you? (Assuming when you did it that it wasn't to be hurtful to your husband and you weren't sending a message.)
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Happy prose
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Post by Happy prose on Jun 18, 2016 11:40:09 GMT -5
No, wouldn't invite SO, but my SO wouldn't be coming either! But you've already said you (alone and without your husband) do things with your daughter and fiancé. Why is it different if they (daughter and fiancé) do something with just your husband? Didn't you already kind of set the expectation that it's OK to do things with the 3 of you? (Assuming when you did it that it wasn't to be hurtful to your husband and you weren't sending a message.) All the time, but he's always invited, just chooses not to go.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jun 18, 2016 11:43:35 GMT -5
But you've already said you (alone and without your husband) do things with your daughter and fiancé. Why is it different if they (daughter and fiancé) do something with just your husband? Didn't you already kind of set the expectation that it's OK to do things with the 3 of you? (Assuming when you did it that it wasn't to be hurtful to your husband and you weren't sending a message.) All the time, but he's always invited, just chooses not to go. OK, I understand what you're saying. Can I just suggest that your daughter sees you both as individuals and since she's used to doing things with just one of you probably didn't think it would be at all a problem to do something with just the other of you? In fact, since she gets to spend so much time with you and enjoys it, she may be looking forward to doing the same thing - one on one time - with her dad. Instead of it being hurtful or exclusionary, view it as a compliment that she's trying to re-create something she loves doing with you. You inspired her.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 12:01:24 GMT -5
So an experience gift must be given to more than the person who is being celebrated? Kids can't give an experience gift to mom or dad, but must include both? Does it end with spouces? Im not being snarky. It really doesn't make sense to me and I'm trying to understand the thinking. To me this is probably more an issue with OP not accepting that daughter is now her own family unit. The kids now include daughter and her fiancé. I think that is where the issue may be lurking. Well then, we'll probably just have to agree to disagree.
I expect we're all thinking about this from the point of view of the dynamics in our own families. If I had wanted to offer an experience gift to just my father, I would have mentioned it to my mother beforehand. She would certainly not have objected and would, in fact, have encouraged me to do so, but I would have needed her support to get my father on board. It would have been he who would have objected to what he would have seen as the exclusion of my mother. In any event, whenever I wanted to take one of them somewhere, I always invited the other parent or otherwise offered to include both because they just always liked to be together. I understand that other families are different. In my family, deliberately excluding one parent would have been hurtful.
I guess I don't see every event I'm not invited to as a deliberate exclusion. Particularly if it were a present. Thanks for trying to explain it yo me.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jun 18, 2016 12:22:47 GMT -5
I don't think rude is the best word for it, but if we must rate it on the rude or not rude scale, I would put it on the rude side of it. I would say it was very inconsiderate.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Jun 18, 2016 14:03:20 GMT -5
Yes, As I've said, I don't think they were deliberatly rude. And yes, I'm so mad that I do want to be a mean mother/ MIL. I did say I would bring it up with her at a later date when I'm cooler. But my mind doesn't forget. The thing about family is we love them. So we forgive them when they do or say something dumb that hurts our feelings, and we put the slight behind us and move forward. from another perspective, if the kids had gotten your DH a new chain saw, would you feel slighted because they didn't get you a matching saw?
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Jun 18, 2016 14:38:08 GMT -5
How is this rude? It's a present for your husband for Father's day - HIS day. Why is it rude to want to spend time with just him? May be your DD wants it to be a bonding experience for her future husband (father of her future children) with her Dad. I think it's great, not rude. Why do you think you have to be included in everything? Why does mother want to be included on everything? What kind of marriage you are in? I am with OP! You are my child. You have to consider my feelings. Apparently child doesn't really know her father that well if she is taking him to event he would hate! I am sure it was all done for the fiancé by fiancé. And she is just blindly in love and can't see how selfish it is. I would have a serious talk with daughter. I demand respect. I am THE mother!!!
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Jun 18, 2016 14:40:42 GMT -5
Yes, As I've said, I don't think they were deliberatly rude. And yes, I'm so mad that I do want to be a mean mother/ MIL. I did say I would bring it up with her at a later date when I'm cooler. But my mind doesn't forget. The thing about family is we love them. So we forgive them when they do or say something dumb that hurts our feelings, and we put the slight behind us and move forward. from another perspective, if the kids had gotten your DH a new chain saw, would you feel slighted because they didn't get you a matching saw? Totally out of point! Her fiancé is not her father BUT he is going! So is he more important than her mother?
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Jun 18, 2016 15:39:50 GMT -5
Whoa. I have to say Loony has made some excellent points. I think she has identified the central issue. The gift very well could be intended to please the fiancé, which is why the fact that it was not something Dad would really like was not taken into account.
In any event, it has been my experience that in families and among close friendship groups, things generally end better if the default position is inclusion in situations where inclusion would be assumed. In situations where one or a small number of people might not be included for any number of perfectly appropriate (or even inappropriate) reasons, communicating the fact and the reason in advance can prevent inflicting pain on the excluded. Of course, if the intent of the exclusion is, in fact, to inflict pain, that's a whole other problem altogether. Coming up with another $50 (or whatever) for a ticket for Mom (or Dad or Sis or whoever) is a whole lot better in the long run than leaving Mom (or Dad or Sis or whoever) with a memory that will never be forgotten for all the wrong reasons. In the end, I just think it's better to be kind, even if it's inconvenient. JMHO.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 18, 2016 15:48:32 GMT -5
Can you explain why? Because I just don't get it... Then it is unlikely any explanation would suffice.
It is my opinion that the deliberate exclusion of one family member was rude. I don't know how to explain that any differently.
It was a Father's Day gift to her Father. If it would have been a tie, would have been rude to not buy Mother a scarf?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 18, 2016 15:52:15 GMT -5
The thing about family is we love them. So we forgive them when they do or say something dumb that hurts our feelings, and we put the slight behind us and move forward. from another perspective, if the kids had gotten your DH a new chain saw, would you feel slighted because they didn't get you a matching saw? Totally out of point! Her fiancé is not her father BUT he is going! So is he more important than her mother? He is taking his future Father-in-Law to a game as a gift for Father's Day.
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Jun 18, 2016 16:02:24 GMT -5
Then it is unlikely any explanation would suffice.
It is my opinion that the deliberate exclusion of one family member was rude. I don't know how to explain that any differently.
It was a Father's Day gift to her Father. If it would have been a tie, would have been rude to not buy Mother a scarf? Poor analogy.
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whoami
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Post by whoami on Jun 18, 2016 16:07:38 GMT -5
He doesn't feel guilty at all. He doesn't like live sporting events, so he's more worried about himself getting 'stuck' going. He knows I'll get over it. OK, so knowing this - I still don't think it's rude, but I do think it's weird that they are taking him to something he doesn't really like Well what else is he supposed to say with her having a fit over not being invited? He didn't even see the problem until she told him there was one. The fact that the daughter giving her father a gift for fathers day is being called a "game changer" and her admitting that she wants to be ugly to her daughter and fiance about the whole thing tells me there is a whole lot more going on here.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 18, 2016 16:13:15 GMT -5
... You are my child. You have to consider my feelings. ... I demand respect. I am THE mother!!! One of the many benefits of my Father leaving my spoiled brat of a Mother after thirty years of marriage was that she was forced to realize the world didn't rotate around her. She then grew up and became a truly amazing adult as a result. miss you Mom
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Happy prose
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Post by Happy prose on Jun 18, 2016 16:32:08 GMT -5
Then it is unlikely any explanation would suffice.
It is my opinion that the deliberate exclusion of one family member was rude. I don't know how to explain that any differently.
It was a Father's Day gift to her Father. If it would have been a tie, would have been rude to not buy Mother a scarf? Nope. Apples and oranges.
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msventoux
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Post by msventoux on Jun 18, 2016 16:47:52 GMT -5
I would be slightly taken aback, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it a game changer and wanting to get vengeance by treating them differently, or by guilt-tripping your husband over it. At least if you've had a good relationship with everyone involved, which it sounds like you have up to this point if you've done things with the kids without your husband.
I would try to assume that they had the best of intentions by trying to get Dad out for some one-on-one time on his special day. Especially since he doesn't typically go out to things like that. And since you said that finances were probably part of it. I don't think I would have said anything until after they had gotten back from the trip, then I might mention to my daughter that it sounded really fun and if something like that comes up again you would be willing to pay for your own ticket and the soon to be son-in-law so you could enjoy it as a family.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 18, 2016 16:50:41 GMT -5
I wish I could have a talk with the fiance, ask him if the daughter is truly worth it.
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flamingo
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Post by flamingo on Jun 18, 2016 17:03:35 GMT -5
My family doesn't do everything together. We do/participate in the events that we are invited to or are fun for us. Even though I enjoy going out to dinner and to concerts and to sporting events, if my DH wanted to do any of those things with his parents/family without me, I'm ok with that. I visit my parents without DH all the time. DH and I are a team, but we can be a team independent of each other as well. I for sure learned this from my parents. My mom and dad love spending time together but guess what? They understand the value of spending time apart as well. And not because they don't have a lot of the same interests - they do. But sometimes, it's about bonding with others, without the spouse present. My mom and I go visit my grandparents without my dad all the time. When my grandparents were younger, we'd take them to minor league baseball games, even though we know how much my dad loves baseball. Guess what? He never had hurt feelings about it. He says, to this day, that he's glad I had the chance to bond with them. Sometimes, I even took grandpa to a baseball game for fathers without taking MY OWN DAD! So, FOR ME, I think it's more that I can't get over the idea that everyone has to be included all the time just because all the people would enjoy the activity.
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obelisk
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Post by obelisk on Jun 18, 2016 17:17:50 GMT -5
I don't think she intended to be rude, but I still think it is. Her fiance will be the one driving into NY, which we don't do. At first my husband thought nothing of it, until I pointed out how rude it was. We would never exclude his mother, nor we would have ever excluded daughter's fiance from anything. But to me, this is a game changer. If the fiancé was the only one able to drive into "NY which we don't do" then you are wrong!!!!!!
Perhaps that is the reason HE was invited.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 18, 2016 17:26:01 GMT -5
... At first my husband thought nothing of it, until I pointed out how rude it was. ... But I am sure he was very quick to agree with you once you made his feelings clear on how it was to be taken.
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Jun 18, 2016 17:30:31 GMT -5
I don't think it's rude.
Me and my girl do things with just my dad sometimes and sometimes just my mom.
Sometimes I do things with just my mom. Sometimes I do things with just my dad. Same with my girls parents.
I don't think that everyone should always have to do everything together ALL the time. If it was a father's day gift therefore, it was for the father.
I actually think it's really important for these bonding sessions as well where each parent isn't always there every time something is going on. It certainly helps me bond more with my girls dad when it's just us three. I don't think him and me would have been able to get on the terms we are now if her mom was always there because he'd just leave the talking up to her. It kind of forced us to talk to one another.
Me, My girlfriend, and him will go golfing together, fishing, and to racing events without her mom.
I also think it's important for everyone to do something together every so often but sometimes it's okay for one of the parents to be left out and should be the case every so often.
Heck I go out with my girlfriends dad just us two every so often as well now! It's great bonding moments
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Jun 18, 2016 17:35:24 GMT -5
I mean maybe if this wasn't father's day it might be a little different but it was a gift for father's day that they want to have with the dad.
My significant other isn't always included in every gift I receive for my birthday even if she's a huge fan or likes what I'm planning on going to go do and she's never got upset before. Vice versa. And my parents are also not included in every gift that the other parent gets.
It's actually common in my family for father's or mother's day that the kids go out with the parent just the kids and the parent without the other parent.
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