NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 8, 2016 10:55:42 GMT -5
My mom bought my junior prom dress. It was $150. My grandmother did my hair. I found all my accessories at Claire's. I bought shoes on clearance at Payless for $5 I got lucky and found my senior prom dress on the clearance rack at Deb's (a now defunct teen store) for $20. I wore accessories and shoes I already owned. Didn't do my hair for the senior prom, it was long enough I let it hang free with a flower pin we found at the dollar store. There is no way my parents would have bought me a $500 prom dress. I couldn't even spend that much on my wedding gown. I was fresh out of college and kept thinking that $500 was a semester's worth of textbooks.
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bookkeeper
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Post by bookkeeper on Feb 8, 2016 10:56:07 GMT -5
OK people, the time to shop for a prom dress is a month after the prom season, not a month before.
I walk through the department stores in June and all these fantastic dresses are on clearance for $50 or less. Sometimes to get what you really want at a price you can afford, a little planning ahead is in order.
I would be looking at rental dresses. We have sons, so we rented tuxedos for prom. We could have purchased suits for less than two tux rentals each, but that is how it turned out. Each son knew exactly what I was willing to spend when they went to choose their rental.
I myself spent about $100 on a dress in 1981 for prom. It was very nice, but I didn't wear it again. For senior prom, I made my dress in home ec class. I think I had around $20 wrapped up in the whole thing because I already owned the shoes.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Feb 8, 2016 11:18:29 GMT -5
The problem here is that no expectations or limits were set. I don't think spending that much on a prom dress is a good lesson - and from what I can tell, the household likes to wallow in opulence that they can't afford. This is just another symptom of the underlying problem. Maybe I could somehow rationalize it if she were senior prom queen or something... but, yeah, no. I think my dresses came from regular department stores on sale. I agree with most the other suggestions - honestly, our goodwill is FULL of cute prom dresses. Or on clearance from Macy's, or even rent the runway. But $500 is just right out IMO. I must be odd but I have NEVER had my hair and makeup done in my entire life, and I got my first manicure when I was in my mid-20's. This new idea of beauty and beauty standards is quite objectionable to me, honestly. I have a low maintenance hair/face and just keep it that way. Teenage girls have their own eyelashes; they don't need fake ones for any event. I've also never been in a limo despite being to all the proms and homecomings in my youth. You just don't need all that. Hell, for senior prom I re-wore a dress and a friend and I went to McDonalds. It isn't the damn Oscars, people. I went online and looked at other retailers, pointing out that there are a lot of cheaper options out there. GF responded, "Fine, the next time you want to do something for $500 and can't afford it, I'm going to tell you no, that there are cheaper options out there." I kind of exploded and said, "When have I EVER come to you and asked for help because I couldn't afford something?!?!" Beer, I really don't like how she talks to you. She clearly doesn't get it and she doesn't respect the situation you are in, or your pocket book. Your situation is complicated enough without always being made the bad guy. I really, really think you need counseling with her, or a financial planning heart-to-heart, or something. Of course, I was brought up that you don't ask anyone for anything so I may be overly harsh, but the very least that she could do would be to present the situation in a calm and logical manner as opposed to angry. That is what I sense in her tone is anger. Maybe that's not how it really is; but that how it comes across to me in your posts.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Feb 8, 2016 11:19:04 GMT -5
OK people, the time to shop for a prom dress is a month after the prom season, not a month before. How does that work? Do you go to your high school's senior prom after your first year of college? Or buy as a junior, and then - end up not going to prom after all? My school had prom and homecoming every year. Frosh - Senior year.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Feb 8, 2016 11:32:04 GMT -5
But beer has stated that the GF doesn't want to change the way things are paid for now. So while we don't like it and don't feel that's it's actually working in anyone's best interest, it's not like he gets to unilaterally change it.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Feb 8, 2016 11:37:35 GMT -5
I suspect that she'll be rethinking her position once he tells her no on the $500. That would mean that not only is he not paying rent, but now he's going to reneg on the "extras" too. What exactly is he contributing then?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 8, 2016 11:42:19 GMT -5
OK people, the time to shop for a prom dress is a month after the prom season, not a month before. How does that work? Do you go to your high school's senior prom after your first year of college? Or buy as a junior, and then - end up not going to prom after all? I did that for sorority formals. Deb was having a fantastic sale on cocktail dresses. I knew I'd need some. I bought 3 for $15 to $20 each.
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Anne_in_VA
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Post by Anne_in_VA on Feb 8, 2016 11:50:33 GMT -5
Why not? If he wants to change how their finances work then he can just figure what is equitable and give her that amount every month.
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MarleyKeezy78
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Post by MarleyKeezy78 on Feb 8, 2016 12:05:29 GMT -5
Well, what kind of extras every month? If he is consistently paying for things like going out to eat, movies, games, ect... Do they add up to near the amount she pays for the non fun stuff? If so I think it's unreasonable to then have him pay for a $500 dress because it will be much more than that, shoes, hair, whatever else... That's asking an awful lot. She needs a budget for sure.
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 8, 2016 12:09:14 GMT -5
Well, what kind of extras every month? If he is consistently paying for things like going out to eat, movies, games, ect... Do they add up to near the amount she pays for the non fun stuff? That's all part of what makes the money relationship complicated and difficult. The amount appears to vary and it varies based on how generous Beer is feeling, if he approves of the stuff, if he will get personal enjoyment out of the stuff and other random things. So GF and kids are constantly in a position of trying to wheedle, beg or cajole favors out of Beer since their money goes to the necessities and it's up to him to decide what "fun" stuff gets paid for and Beer is constantly in a position of feeling like the GF and kids view him as a wallet for their fun. It doesn't sound like a good set up for anybody.
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MarleyKeezy78
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Post by MarleyKeezy78 on Feb 8, 2016 12:12:58 GMT -5
Well, what kind of extras every month? If he is consistently paying for things like going out to eat, movies, games, ect... Do they add up to near the amount she pays for the non fun stuff? That's all part of what makes the money relationship complicated and difficult. The amount appears to vary and it varies based on how generous Beer is feeling, if he approves of the stuff, if he will get personal enjoyment out of the stuff and other random things. So GF and kids are constantly in a position of trying to wheedle, beg or cajole favors out of Beer since their money goes to the necessities and it's up to him to decide what "fun" stuff gets paid for and Beer is constantly in a position of feeling like the GF and kids view him as a wallet for their fun. It doesn't sound like a good set up for anybody. Ah, then I agree with the posts about them setting an amount he pays every month so they can be done with it and not have these issues.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 8, 2016 12:17:36 GMT -5
I've also never been in a limo despite being to all the proms and homecomings in my youth. You just don't need all that.
I don't recall many people renting a limo when I went to prom. It seemed to be falling out of favor b/c even divided up among multiple couples it was insanely expensive. The trend was guys getting to borrow dad's "nice" car or rent a nice car to take their dates to the prom.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Feb 8, 2016 12:22:18 GMT -5
I suspect that she'll be rethinking her position once he tells her no on the $500. That would mean that not only is he not paying rent, but now he's going to reneg on the "extras" too. What exactly is he contributing then? I think you're right. It seems that OP is looking for outside opinion to justify contributing less and less overall. And - everyone would totally support him 100% if they didn't know the back story - which, IIRC - was very slow in being revealed, and only after much questioning. You live with someone, both are working, everyone assumes you are paying rent and utilities and then you complain about paying 100% for a vacay and not-your-kid's camp, and everyone is on your side - you are doing so much for them, they are ungrateful, etc. etc. A bit dishonest if you are keeping it quiet that you are not paying rent or bills, etc. Won't she just buy the dress and ask beer to cover something else? It's a vicious cycle.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 8, 2016 12:55:50 GMT -5
Well, what kind of extras every month? If he is consistently paying for things like going out to eat, movies, games, ect... Do they add up to near the amount she pays for the non fun stuff? If so I think it's unreasonable to then have him pay for a $500 dress because it will be much more than that, shoes, hair, whatever else... That's asking an awful lot. She needs a budget for sure. Every boyfriend I ever had paid for those "extras". The ones who lived with me paid 1/2 rent, 1/2 utilities and extras. Beer's contribution would likely not be fair market rent and instead be something along whatever he gave his parents before he moved in with his girlfriend. He seems very petty when it comes to money, so I suspect at most he would offer 1/4 of the living expenses because he'd reason he's only 1 out of 4 people living there and only cover enough food to feed himself. The situation would be more like roommates and I could totally see why the gf would object. Plus, he said once that if he contributed anything resembling "rent" he would feel he was owed a stake in the home equity and he doesn't want partnership in the house. Never mind, that rent doesn't mean you're all of a sudden entitled to ownership.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 8, 2016 13:05:22 GMT -5
I can see it. My daughters dress for the sophomore social was over $400.
I am going looking at prom dresses with her this Friday. I don't expect the dress to be less than the sophomore social dress
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 8, 2016 13:06:57 GMT -5
Beer refuses to consider a monthly contribution until she reveals a very detailed budget. It is only at that point he will consider what a fair contribution should be.
I strongly disagree that she needs to show her complete and detailed financial picture for him to know what fair market value is to rent a house in her neighborhood (and divide in half as he is 1/2 of the adults in the house) and whatever they think is fair for utilities- I would again say half. One could definitely argue that he shouldn't have to pay half, but if it weren't her house and they found a house together to rent- I bet it would be split evenly. There is no possible way anybody who was receiving nothing wouldn't find this agreeable. Which, is why I suspect beer wouldn't offer anything nearly as fair.
For whatever reason, she hasn't handed over the requested budget. Maybe she doesn't have one that meets his requirements.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Feb 8, 2016 13:10:08 GMT -5
OP decided to just say no . It sounded punitive. I hope the girl isn't being punished because YM was being contrarian and put OP in a temper? See and this is where I start to diverge a bit. It's always in mom's power to say, you know beer, perhaps you ought to live separate for awhile while I focus on my kids. That way he can't be seen as a drain on her finances. She is way too co-dependent to do that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 13:21:44 GMT -5
So can he.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 8, 2016 13:27:19 GMT -5
Oops...looks like I should have read further into the thread before posting.
As a single mom, I can't imagine asking my boyfriend to cover expenses for my children. That seems bizarre to me. Im the parent and they have a father...buying dinners out or something small like that seems reasonable but expecting them to pay for the cost of my children seems unreasonable.
Then again, I can't imagine letting a boyfriend move in and pay me 25% of the living expenses, either.
All Iknow is that reading beer's posts it sounds like a very unhappy and unhealthy relationship...I would get out while the getting is good!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 13:28:47 GMT -5
Would you let him live there for free Tequilla?
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Feb 8, 2016 13:40:45 GMT -5
I've also never been in a limo despite being to all the proms and homecomings in my youth. You just don't need all that.
I don't recall many people renting a limo when I went to prom. It seemed to be falling out of favor b/c even divided up among multiple couples it was insanely expensive. The trend was guys getting to borrow dad's "nice" car or rent a nice car to take their dates to the prom. Well kids rent limos around here, and I gathered from parental discussions that they went along with it b/c they did not then have to worry as much about drinking and driving. Kids also often get together as a group and rent a mini-bus. ETA. Kids can not rent cars until they are 21 and you must have a credit card - so I don't think that happens anymore.
I made my dress for prom, and I did not have my hair done (early 80's) - but I felt out of place even then. I didn't have a professional manicure until probably 8 years ago? But I knew a lot of people getting professional manicures for a long time before I started. I worked with a lot of college students about 15 years ago - and professional manicures and regular tanning were very common.
I have a niece who has a sister who graduated with a degree In Fashion design. She did a semester in Paris and is very talented. The stuff she does for my Grand niece is very well done. She did a prom dress for one of my niece's and they did not like it at all. My SIL took niece to a Bridal store a few days before the event and they bought something off the rack. I used to sew a lot, but I do not sew garments from scratch anymore. It is just too expensive (flat yard goods are way more expensive than a finished garment ) and to hard to predict if the finished item will look good on you.
All my DD's friends went for nails and hair - even the ones that are not as well off financially. Maybe they are all more with it than I was in HS, but I think the times have just changed. Even the less formal dresses my DD has worn to events have been $100-$200. Yeah she is a Diva. I told her she would be a Bridezilla if she ever gets married, but I don't see her going there any time soon - so I am not at all concerned about it.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 8, 2016 13:47:05 GMT -5
Would you let him live there for free Tequilla? Go no. But to split based on the number of heads in a house when you are including children is ludicrous to me. He should pay a fair rent and half of the utilities.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 13:49:54 GMT -5
Thanks for the clarification.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Feb 8, 2016 13:52:17 GMT -5
Would you let him live there for free Tequilla? This is what I don't understand. Not only the fact that a man pulls his own weight and he is not, but that the GF puts up with it. I don't know any self respecting woman that would let some guy live in their house rent free. Maybe she has a self esteem issue that he is taking advantage of.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Feb 8, 2016 13:52:39 GMT -5
I think half is ridiculous for 3 kids that aren't his own and a house that he has no ownership stake in.
I think, half the taxes and insurance portion of the payment, and maybe even half of the interest portion if the others are negligible. If not half the interest portion, then half the food. And one fifth of the utilities, as they don't go up that significantly with one more person. The mom and birth dad should cover all kid stuff. This is for a live-in bf situation, not a step-parent.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Feb 8, 2016 14:03:18 GMT -5
This whole situation had the making of a really difficult dynamic. I rarely say this but this is one case where meeting with a counselor would be invaluable!
A younger man who goes from living with their parents to living with a woman who has some kids is ripe for difficulties with finding the balance for what is fair under the best of circumstances. Add in that she does want to get married and he doesn't and it really gets complicated enough to make my head hurt.
Seriously Beer see a counselor and let the two of you get some reasonable agreement about the finances between the two of you. This is something that just doesn't get better without some serious intervention IME. Good luck!
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Works4me
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Post by Works4me on Feb 8, 2016 14:04:18 GMT -5
I think that maybe the whole point - that him living there, that going for 4 to 5 residents, really does nothing to change her expenses. Her house payment and most other expenses remain the same. Utilities might increase slightly but that amount would be negotiable with 3 teens in the house. Him picking up the grocery bill and "extras" theoretically saves her money. Is any of this right? Not in my opinion. However, I can understand the thinking behind it even if I disagree with it and even if I think it is inherently flawed.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 8, 2016 14:10:39 GMT -5
I think half is ridiculous for 3 kids that aren't his own and a house that he has no ownership stake in. I think, half the taxes and insurance portion of the payment, and maybe even half of the interest portion if the others are negligible. If not half the interest portion, then half the food. And one fifth of the utilities, as they don't go up that significantly with one more person. The mom and birth dad should cover all kid stuff. This is for a live-in bf situation, not a step-parent. That's why I said a fair rent and not half of the mortgage.
But if the utilities don't go up that much for one person, couldn't the same be said in reverse? He would be paying more if he got utilities in his own name then paying half there? Because regardless of how much you use, there is the flat fee for service to the house?
I wouldn't let a man move in with me and mooch from me. If he wants to nickel and dime me he can find his own house to live in and foot all of the bills. Sharing expenses is usually cheaper for both parties...so to say that he should benefit from having a roommate but she shouldn't is ludicrous . If they aren't working towards a future together then they really should just live separately.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 8, 2016 14:18:16 GMT -5
I'd have to agree that the whole scenario of Beer living there, not contributing to household expenses, but paying for extras for kids that are not his is just whacked and has led to this whole passive aggressive financial dance.
Man up and pay rent. It's the right thing to do. And stop playing sugar daddy. It's a bad example for the kids.
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MarleyKeezy78
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Post by MarleyKeezy78 on Feb 8, 2016 14:19:03 GMT -5
Well, what kind of extras every month? If he is consistently paying for things like going out to eat, movies, games, ect... Do they add up to near the amount she pays for the non fun stuff? If so I think it's unreasonable to then have him pay for a $500 dress because it will be much more than that, shoes, hair, whatever else... That's asking an awful lot. She needs a budget for sure. Every boyfriend I ever had paid for those "extras". The ones who lived with me paid 1/2 rent, 1/2 utilities and extras. Beer's contribution would likely not be fair market rent and instead be something along whatever he gave his parents before he moved in with his girlfriend. He seems very petty when it comes to money, so I suspect at most he would offer 1/4 of the living expenses because he'd reason he's only 1 out of 4 people living there and only cover enough food to feed himself. The situation would be more like roommates and I could totally see why the gf would object. Plus, he said once that if he contributed anything resembling "rent" he would feel he was owed a stake in the home equity and he doesn't want partnership in the house. Never mind, that rent doesn't mean you're all of a sudden entitled to ownership. I only meant if he paid near the same as her every month, but it sounds as if that's not the case. Sounds like they really need to sit down and come up with a better way because he needs to pay his fair share for living there, but it sounds like the mom and daughter need to get a grip on reality as well.
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