beergut
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Post by beergut on Feb 7, 2016 23:39:36 GMT -5
I'm now leaning towards contributing nothing, and completely recusing myself from the process. GF and 17 yr old and bio-dad can figure it out.
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mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on Feb 7, 2016 23:56:33 GMT -5
I suggested to GF that she ask ex-husband/bio father for help, and was laughed off. As to the question of whether he is out of the picture, I'm not sure how to answer that. Financially speaking, he is a deadbeat, underpaying child support, and not paying his portion of medical bills. He shows up at his convenience for certain events during the year. The younger daughter just turned 16, and earned her drivers license last week. He wasn't there for her birthday, but will be going to a get-together at an indoor skydiving place tomorrow. I'm intrigued by the indoor skydiving place. What exactly is it?
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beergut
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Post by beergut on Feb 8, 2016 2:52:43 GMT -5
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beergut
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Post by beergut on Feb 8, 2016 2:58:41 GMT -5
I'm now leaning towards contributing nothing, and completely recusing myself from the process. GF and 17 yr old and bio-dad can figure it out. Why? Making sure the 17 yr old enjoys her prom really isn't my responsibility. It is her responsibility, and (if she wants their help) the responsibility of her mother and father. The 17 yr old has two months, if she wants to get a part-time job and earn the money for the dress, the opportunity is there. Removing myself from the situation takes the pressure off of me, and puts it on the responsible parties in this situation.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Feb 8, 2016 4:09:19 GMT -5
Making sure the 17 yr old enjoys her prom really isn't my responsibility. It is her responsibility, and (if she wants their help) the responsibility of her mother and father. The 17 yr old has two months, if she wants to get a part-time job and earn the money for the dress, the opportunity is there. Removing myself from the situation takes the pressure off of me, and puts it on the responsible parties in this situation. It is the cost of your rental obligation this month. Unfortunately you don't have a fixed price for your rent and this happens to be an expensive month.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Feb 8, 2016 6:09:36 GMT -5
Making sure the 17 yr old enjoys her prom really isn't my responsibility. It is her responsibility, and (if she wants their help) the responsibility of her mother and father. The 17 yr old has two months, if she wants to get a part-time job and earn the money for the dress, the opportunity is there. Removing myself from the situation takes the pressure off of me, and puts it on the responsible parties in this situation. Funny!!!
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beergut
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Post by beergut on Feb 8, 2016 6:35:04 GMT -5
Making sure the 17 yr old enjoys her prom really isn't my responsibility. It is her responsibility, and (if she wants their help) the responsibility of her mother and father. The 17 yr old has two months, if she wants to get a part-time job and earn the money for the dress, the opportunity is there. Removing myself from the situation takes the pressure off of me, and puts it on the responsible parties in this situation. It is the cost of your rental obligation this month. Unfortunately you don't have a fixed price for your rent and this happens to be an expensive month. Nope. We have three weddings to go to this Spring, and I just bought a car last week. The bank is closed. If 17YO and GF want this dress, they have two months to figure it out. If they want 17 YO to feel 'special' and get the nails done, hair done, and the 'dress of her dreams', they can foot the bill.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 8, 2016 7:05:19 GMT -5
I hope that works out for you.
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skubikky
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Post by skubikky on Feb 8, 2016 8:16:26 GMT -5
17 yr old is dress shopping. The dress she wants is $460, so over $500 with tax. Is this normal? It sounds to me like they are preparing these girls for the racket that is the wedding industry. "They" aren't doing anything. Those who decide to purchase are the ones to look at. Does this 17 year old have a PT job or savings from a summer job? What would you like her to contribute if anything at all? I would look at some of the consignment shops or even ebay if you want to get the cost down. You as a parent need to decide whether a $500 prom dress is something that you choose to do for your daughter. There is also the cost of the limo(if they do that), tickets to the prom dinner/dance whatever, hair, makeup, shoes, accessories. Sit down and talk to your daughter so that each of you can fully understand the expectations that each has.
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taz157
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Post by taz157 on Feb 8, 2016 8:25:13 GMT -5
17 yr old is dress shopping. The dress she wants is $460, so over $500 with tax. Is this normal? It sounds to me like they are preparing these girls for the racket that is the wedding industry. "They" aren't doing anything. Those who decide to purchase are the ones to look at. Does this 17 year old have a PT job or savings from a summer job? What would you like her to contribute if anything at all? I would look at some of the consignment shops or even ebay if you want to get the cost down. You as a parent need to decide whether a $500 prom dress is something that you choose to do for your daughter. There is also the cost of the limo(if they do that), tickets to the prom dinner/dance whatever, hair, makeup, shoes, accessories. Sit down and talk to your daughter so that each of you can fully understand the expectations that each has. It's not his daughter. It's his girlfriend's daughter.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 8:33:07 GMT -5
It is the cost of your rental obligation this month. Unfortunately you don't have a fixed price for your rent and this happens to be an expensive month. Nope. We have three weddings to go to this Spring, and I just bought a car last week. The bank is closed. If 17YO and GF want this dress, they have two months to figure it out. If they want 17 YO to feel 'special' and get the nails done, hair done, and the 'dress of her dreams', they can foot the bill. Out of curiosity, are they weddings for your friends and family? Or hers? I also thought she she took out a loan for the car?
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 8, 2016 8:33:31 GMT -5
17 yr old is dress shopping. The dress she wants is $460, so over $500 with tax. Is this normal? It sounds to me like they are preparing these girls for the racket that is the wedding industry. "They" aren't doing anything. Those who decide to purchase are the ones to look at. Does this 17 year old have a PT job or savings from a summer job? What would you like her to contribute if anything at all? I would look at some of the consignment shops or even ebay if you want to get the cost down. You as a parent need to decide whether a $500 prom dress is something that you choose to do for your daughter. There is also the cost of the limo(if they do that), tickets to the prom dinner/dance whatever, hair, makeup, shoes, accessories. Sit down and talk to your daughter so that each of you can fully understand the expectations that each has. It's not his daughter. It's the daughter of his girlfriend. Who he lives with - rent free. The arrangement appears to be that she pays all the boring stuff - mortgage utilities, etc. - and he pays for eating out and fun stuff like travel. But since their definition of "fun stuff" doesn't always agree, that causes constant negotiation. Like a few months ago when he felt they didn't need to travel any more (ie - he didn't need to pay for any more travel) since they had just returned from a trip to see his family; for some reason the GF didn't agree that traveling to see his family was sufficient "fun".
Reading between the lines, that might also be part of the issue here. He feels there's no more need for spending since he just bought himself a new car, but for some reason GF doesn't view this transaction the same way.
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skubikky
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Post by skubikky on Feb 8, 2016 8:33:53 GMT -5
got it
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 8, 2016 8:44:53 GMT -5
Nope. We have three weddings to go to this Spring, and I just bought a car last week. The bank is closed. If 17YO and GF want this dress, they have two months to figure it out. If they want 17 YO to feel 'special' and get the nails done, hair done, and the 'dress of her dreams', they can foot the bill. Out of curiosity, are they weddings for your friends and family? Or hers? I also thought she she took out a loan for the car? Wild guess - but he's not talking about the car she bought a few months ago. I'm betting he just bought himself a new car. But since GF and kids will get to ride in it and maybe even drive it sometimes, it's totally for their benefit and counts as his contribution to the household.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 8, 2016 8:45:54 GMT -5
Maybe he gave someone in the house his old one?
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 8, 2016 8:49:42 GMT -5
Maybe he gave someone in the house his old one? If a car title was actually signed over to someone else in the house, that would be a contribution. If not...
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 8, 2016 8:51:58 GMT -5
Yeah, I know. I doubt that happened or we'd have heard all about it. What a strange situation.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 8, 2016 9:00:06 GMT -5
I think a $500 prom dress is excessive. That is my opinion and I recognize others will disagree.
I would give her $x and tell her that's your contribution.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Feb 8, 2016 9:03:29 GMT -5
My DD went to prom last year and the year before. For her junior year she had a kicking short dress that we happened to find at Sears for $35. Don't laugh! I swear it was crazy cute and totally prom. It was short, white with lots of glitter and sparkles. She ended the night having danced so much she had her shoes in her hands, her corsage in three pieces in her purse, her up do that we paid $30 to get done had fallen down, and one strap on the dress broke needing to be pinned back on. If she had been drinking I would have sworn she had spent the night in Vegas. Her senior year she got a dress from JCPenny's. It was $100 on sale. I think it's retail was $150. It was a long strapless corseted ball gown. It had tulle under it to make it kind of puffy and princess dress like but wasn't cupcake worthy if people know what I mean. It had a top over lay that was sheer with sparkles so the whole dress shimmered. He hair was free that year because she asked me to do it. The hair I normally do doesn't fall down the the last year it had. So we went to a store called Icing and got some sparkely fake jewelry and stuff to put her hair up with that was also super sparkely. I think we spent at least $30 there. Her friends got together and got a jitney to drive them. Her share was maybe $15. The only other thing I remember is $10 to shorten the hem. She wore the shoes both years because she adored them. I think they were $50? Christian Seriano's from Payless. And these numbers are from only two years ago. She actually had a PT job but she knew she was going to college and needed the money for that. I also think the people who were in $500 gowns didn't necessarily look better. In fact a couple of those super expensive gowns were hideous!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 9:12:42 GMT -5
I think a $500 prom dress is excessive. That is my opinion and I recognize others will disagree.
I would give her $x and tell her that's your contribution. I would never choose to spend that money on a dress. I would never give my child that much to spend on a dress. They would be coming up with the lions share themselves. That isn't really the issue here though, unless the mother/girlfriend's willingness to lay out that much signifies a discrepancy in spending priorities which make the relationship unsustainable. The mother can choose to spend discretionary income on what she chooses to prioritize. The issue is that the mother has no direct control over discretionary income. She pays all the necessary bills, and beer decided what is 'appropriate' discretionary expenditures. Maybe the girls don't want to go to three weddings this spring. Maybe they prefer to spend less money on that, and more money on a dress. But they don't have control over those decisions. Only beer does.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Feb 8, 2016 9:14:13 GMT -5
I will also say that shopping for dresses like this requires trying them on. My Dd and others would just look at gowns and think they were pretty so they must look good on them. It was strange for her to find out that the dresses that looked great on were not always the ones she had loved on the hanger. Some she loved on the hanger looked awful on and some she was meh on the hanger looked amazing on.
I would NEVER recommend someone buy any dress for more than maybe $50 online without having tried it on first!
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MarleyKeezy78
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Post by MarleyKeezy78 on Feb 8, 2016 9:42:02 GMT -5
My prom was in 97' and my neighbor made my dress for me. I think the dress was under $100, I bought inexpensive cute shoes and had my hair done. Did my own makeup. Under $200 for everything. I think $500 for a prom dress is way too much, hell my wedding dress was $450 eleven years ago and it was beautiful!
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Feb 8, 2016 9:53:09 GMT -5
My experience is people with less means often spend more on Prom and HS grad than people with more money. My read is that HS grad is a bigger deal to them in their family and experience. I always expected my kids to go to college and graduate with at least a BA. So it wouldn't occur to me to spend a thousand or more on a prom. But if I was from a family where a HS graduation was the highest goal achieved or worse often not achieved at all maybe I would spend a shit load of money on it thinking it was the biggest deal of their lives so far. PS sorry for the super long run on sentence at the end. I'm just to tired today to fix it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 9:55:34 GMT -5
The issue is that the mother has no direct control over discretionary income. She pays all the necessary bills, and beer decided what is 'appropriate' discretionary expenditures. Maybe the girls don't want to go to three weddings this spring. Maybe they prefer to spend less money on that, and more money on a dress. But they don't have control over those decisions. Only beer does. Important lesson for the girls here. If you don't earn the money, you don't get to decide how it will be spent. Heck, I wanted to go to Europe when I was a teenager. Parents had this silly idea of wanting to save money for my college education. They provided the education. I got myself to Europe many times after that. If you want it badly enough, you work for it.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Feb 8, 2016 9:56:19 GMT -5
But this all goes back to the root of the problem. Beer lives there but does not pay rent. He doesn't pay for regular utilities, etc. He pays for food and "extras" - and then he constantly complains about the "extras". We have repeatedly told him to pay market rent and a portion of utilities, but then he wouldn't get to complain about every single thing GF and kids do regarding money. Meanwhile, the GF may well think he should pay more for these extras, cuz - sheesh - he isn't paying rent, or heat, or electric. And the only way to up his contribution, is push for more and pricier "extras" Why would any self respecting grown man not be paying rent + at least 25% of utilities? That is just ridiculous. Exactly!
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musicjenny
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Post by musicjenny on Feb 8, 2016 10:00:02 GMT -5
I went to prom in '98. I think my dress was $120 from Bon Ton. I paid for it myself - they had layaway. Shoes were off the clearance rack, did my own hair and makeup. I had a great time and ended up donating it to the thrift shop a few years later. She can check consignment and even thrift shops. Facebook yard sale pages are also good for finding a dress that's been worn once. My girlfriend has a stepdaughter and she's found all of her dresses for prom, homecoming court, glee club etc. that way for less than $100 each. $500 plus money for all the other "necessary" stuff is nuts. That's close to my mortgage payment.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 10:02:06 GMT -5
The issue is that the mother has no direct control over discretionary income. She pays all the necessary bills, and beer decided what is 'appropriate' discretionary expenditures. Maybe the girls don't want to go to three weddings this spring. Maybe they prefer to spend less money on that, and more money on a dress. But they don't have control over those decisions. Only beer does. Important lesson for the girls here. If you don't earn the money, you don't get to decide how it will be spent. Heck, I wanted to go to Europe when I was a teenager. Parents had this silly idea of wanting to save money for my college education. They provided the education. I got myself to Europe many times after that. If you want it badly enough, you work for it. Girlfriend does earn her own money. In fact more than beers if I remember correctly. She just spends all of hers on the necessities, while he gets to decide all the discretionary items...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 10:24:52 GMT -5
Is the bio dad still in the picture? If so, the step name is probably just for distinction without any connotation attached.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Feb 8, 2016 10:28:35 GMT -5
The fact that mom didn't set a budget on the dress before going looking seems indicative of the "dip into beer's pocket" problem. Now she has created a situation where beergut will be the "bad guy" if he doesn't cough up the money asked for. This seems seriously manipulative. I won't say more, but the issue is with mom and not the daughter in my opinion. Who says it the Mother's fault? I know that based on past posts it might well be, but if the girl is old enough to go to prom, she is old enough to shop on her own. I was not with DD when she bought her Prom Dress and she was shopping 40 miles from home. She called me on her way to the shop. She was driving on the expressway in Rush Hour Traffic. What can I say, I raised up a self confident young woman.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Feb 8, 2016 10:34:42 GMT -5
My experience is people with less means often spend more on Prom and HS grad than people with more money. My read is that HS grad is a bigger deal to them in their family and experience. I always expected my kids to go to college and graduate with at least a BA. So it wouldn't occur to me to spend a thousand or more on a prom. But if I was from a family where a HS graduation was the highest goal achieved or worse often not achieved at all maybe I would spend a shit load of money on it thinking it was the biggest deal of their lives so far. PS sorry for the super long run on sentence at the end. I'm just to tired today to fix it. I just read this last week: Source: money.cnn.com/2015/03/31/pf/prom-spending-poor/Well I submit that if you are Poor, you probably keep track of every penny and to a certain extent if you make $50,000 you probably still track how much is spent on something like Prom pretty well, but if you make something in the neighborhood of $100,000 then things like manicure/pedicure and shoes might not count in the budget, because there is already room in the monthly budget for those expenditures.
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