Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 10, 2016 14:54:15 GMT -5
On that note, I think I'm done arguing in this thread. There are serious issues that beergut doesn't want to admit or address and it just isn't worth my time. No sense in going back and forth any longer.
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kittensaver
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We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
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Post by kittensaver on Mar 10, 2016 14:55:16 GMT -5
I politely call BS. I TOTALLY agree that at least in *some* arenas, it is condescension to put the other party in their place and/or get them to shut up - pure and simple.
You do not have to know how to lay an egg to make a good omelette.
Some of the best parents I have seen are folks without biological offspring who have the knowledge and skills to care for and grow up responsible children.
Some of the worst parents I have seen are parents only by the accident of biology.
I am NOT defending beergut or taking an oppositional stand to any of the conversations about revolving doors, but I AM calling out the "you don't have children, you don't understand" myth.
If you don't have children you will never know the unconditional love or need to put your children above your own needs.
BS. Sorry. Agree to disagree.
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swamp
Community Leader
THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Mar 10, 2016 14:57:42 GMT -5
I think the presumption that single mother's problems would be fixed if they could attract and keep a "good" guy is offensive and simplistic. As counter-intuitive as it is there's evidence to suggest that when male children are in the picture the presence of a romantic partner, or even biological father, is not an unalloyed good. So when single mothers choose to keep their romantic relationships separate from child rearing to maintain stability it can be a logical response or best choice in a complicated situation rather than an inability to find a good partner. www.city-journal.org/html/boy-trouble-13615.htmlI don't think anyone is saying that finding a step dad for the kids should be the way to keep a stable male figure in kids' lives.
Bio dad, grandpa, uncle, cousin, or friend can be that person. A good friend of mine is a single mom. The dad is kind of useless. Nice guy, but useless. She is aware that her son needs positive male role models. That is filled by her dad and her brothers, not by whomever mom is dating at the time.
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beergut
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Post by beergut on Mar 10, 2016 15:12:56 GMT -5
Oh, please. When the F5 tornado hit Oklahoma and leveled a school, they found dead teachers huddled over their still-living students, protecting them from the destruction. But "they don't understand unconditional love or the need to put children above their own needs" because those kids aren't their biological children, right? I do like how you select very few things on here to quote..yet you completely disagree with the health professional who tells you that you and your gf are fucking up the kids....way to deflect the bigger issues at hand I like the way you completely ignore my response when I refute your position with a very relevant example of why you are wrong. I don't take opinion of healthcare 'professionals' who diagnose via internet forum the too seriously.
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mmhmm
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It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 10, 2016 15:47:07 GMT -5
I do like how you select very few things on here to quote..yet you completely disagree with the health professional who tells you that you and your gf are fucking up the kids....way to deflect the bigger issues at hand I like the way you completely ignore my response when I refute your position with a very relevant example of why you are wrong. I don't take opinion of healthcare 'professionals' who diagnose via internet forum the too seriously. Would you care to show me where any diagnosis has been made? I'd love to see that post.
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swamp
Community Leader
THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Mar 10, 2016 16:08:34 GMT -5
I like the way you completely ignore my response when I refute your position with a very relevant example of why you are wrong. I don't take opinion of healthcare 'professionals' who diagnose via internet forum the too seriously. Would you care to show me where any diagnosis has been made? I'd love to see that post. I saw an observation, not a diagnosis.
Maybe I should spell out the difference:
Observation: Many children raised in this similar situation have these issues. This is what you need to look for, and this situation is not generally good for kids Diagnosis: Your soon to be step child has anxiety and attachment disorder because mom has had 4 different men living in her house in the past 12 years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2016 16:33:18 GMT -5
I definitely think people who do not birth children can decide to give them the love and commitment they deserve. I also think some people who birth children do not. But I also don't think putting a child's best interests first is evident in the actions beer describes or in his response to boy. My opinion.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 10, 2016 18:26:27 GMT -5
I do like how you select very few things on here to quote..yet you completely disagree with the health professional who tells you that you and your gf are fucking up the kids....way to deflect the bigger issues at hand I like the way you completely ignore my response when I refute your position with a very relevant example of why you are wrong. I don't take opinion of healthcare 'professionals' who diagnose via internet forum the too seriously. Im not ignoring you. Im choosing not to waste my time arguig with you. You seem to want to debate everything except the issues with what those kids have been thru My opinion is that no man will love or care for my children like I do. You are proving my point by not caring what that boy has been through. All you want to do is excuse tr fact that that kid is hurting. Which proves his feelings and emotions mean absolutely nothing to you...I've dated guys like that...briefly. But the love for my children overruled any feelings I had for some guy that thought his needs came above my children's needs...because that's what a good mom does Now you can argue all you want, Im done with this thread. You bash everyone in here that thinks you are doing that kid harm. Not worth my time
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 10, 2016 18:26:58 GMT -5
I definitely think people who do not birth children can decide to give them the love and commitment they deserve. I also think some people who birth children do not. But I also don't think putting a child's best interests first is evident in the actions beer describes or in his response to boy. My opinion. I couldn't have said it better than this
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beergut
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Post by beergut on Mar 10, 2016 23:23:36 GMT -5
I like the way you completely ignore my response when I refute your position with a very relevant example of why you are wrong. I don't take opinion of healthcare 'professionals' who diagnose via internet forum the too seriously. Im not ignoring you. Im choosing not to waste my time arguig with you. You seem to want to debate everything except the issues with what those kids have been thru ------------------------------------------- Of course you're not going to argue that point, you're wrong. Teachers choosing to lay down their lives to protect children (who are not their own biological children) is proof that people (besides parents) can understand what it means to put children before themselves, but that completely refutes your argument, so you will just ignore that. ------------------------------------------- My opinion is that no man will love or care for my children like I do. You are proving my point by not caring what that boy has been through. All you want to do is excuse tr fact that that kid is hurting. Which proves his feelings and emotions mean absolutely nothing to you... I've dated guys like that...briefly. But the love for my children overruled any feelings I had for some guy that thought his needs came above my children's needs...because that's what a good mom does ------------------------------------------ 1. Actually, the fact that I'm willing to wait until he is comfortable and trusts me means the exact opposite. 2. You know this how? 3. See #1 4. Now you're projecting some bad experiences you had dating onto me. Wonderful. At least we know the crux of your problem now. ------------------------------------------- Now you can argue all you want, Im done with this thread. You bash everyone in here that thinks you are doing that kid harm. Not worth my time ------------------------------------------- So, if I completely refute your argument, does that still mean I'm 'bashing' you?
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beergut
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Post by beergut on Mar 10, 2016 23:30:00 GMT -5
I like the way you completely ignore my response when I refute your position with a very relevant example of why you are wrong. I don't take opinion of healthcare 'professionals' who diagnose via internet forum the too seriously. Would you care to show me where any diagnosis has been made? I'd love to see that post. Suggestion, diagnosis, opinion, doesn't matter what you call it, it is still worth what you paid for it.
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beergut
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Post by beergut on Mar 10, 2016 23:56:54 GMT -5
The latest, as updated on the shoe thread: 17YO received her income tax refund, and went out and bought a new pair of sandals, cost $113. I found this out when she called me to ask if I would transfer money into her account so she could buy a prom dress. When I asked how much the dress cost, she said, "$360." I told her to hold on, assuming she didn't know the tax refund just hit her account, knowing that the account balance should cover the full cost of this dress. When I saw she just spent $113 on something, I asked what it was, she said the sandals. Well, if you chose to buy the sandals, you also chose not to buy the dress today. She wanted me to 'loan' her the money to cover the remaining cost of the dress, and GF (who had told her she'd give her up to $200 for a dress) would pay me back. I said no. Then she said if I 'loaned' her the money, she'd pay me back with the $50 she is getting every week. Nope, not setting up a payment plan so she can get a dress today. The store won't hold the dress for her, or do layaway, so she is worried it might be gone if she doesn't buy it today. The purpose of the $50 a week plan was to teach the kids how to manage money. Making a purchase for one want has consequences, namely that you may not be able to afford another want. She says 'whatever', hangs up on me. Five minutes later, I'm on the phone with a casino in Vegas, and I receive a text from GF. 17YO claims I was angry at her for buying sandals. Uh, no. I explain what happened to GF. GF apparently called 17YO and told her she supports my decision. 17YO then gets upset, claims I've always favored the 16YO over her, and always give her whatever she wants. (Apparently, 16YO asking me to pick up a candy bar for her when I swing by the store after going to the gym is completely analogous to buying a $360 prom dress.) Gotta love sibling rivalry. So, no need for her older brother to replace her sandals, she bought her own. But she still doesn't have a prom dress. "Rent the Runway" didn't have a style she liked, apparently. Tune in next week, on "As The Prom Dress Turns"....
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mmhmm
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It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 11, 2016 8:08:38 GMT -5
Would you care to show me where any diagnosis has been made? I'd love to see that post. Suggestion, diagnosis, opinion, doesn't matter what you call it, it is still worth what you paid for it. Yes, it does matter what one calls something. A suggestion is not a diagnosis, just as an apple is not a cucumber. I paid nothing and neither did you. What you do with the advice and suggestions you've received here is, of course, up to you. It was, however, your idea to bring these matters here to the forums for comment. Nobody here solicited this information from you. If you choose to bring your personal matters here to the boards, you can expect others to comment. Most of us do so honestly and with the desire to provide useful information. That's what's been done here, for the most part. If the information and opinions you receive don't suit you, I'd suggest you refrain from bringing such personal information here for comment. mmhmm, Administrator
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Mar 11, 2016 8:22:54 GMT -5
That's great you and the GF are on the same page!
I'm wondering, in the past, how common it was for the 17 yo to experience boundary follow through like this?
I could be sibling rivalry, but it could be that she's also upset that you all are enforcing boundaries as a united front for the first time. My tween likes to tell me "Well, all my friends abc." because he's upset with boundaries. His MO is to not drag his siblings into it. DD1, is the opposite when it comes to boundary pushing.
Now, personally, myself, if enforcing financial boundaries is something new(er), I probably wouldn't pick *prom* as the time to do it. The timing of it is pretty cruel. Your GF had 16+ years to do this and chose not to.
I'm curious how you problem solved with her, too. Did you all remind her she could earn more money doing chores around the house? Did she wear the shoes outside? If not, returning the shoes could have been an option. Does she have a saving account she can draw from?
Is the oldest going to college next year.
(And it's still debatable about the oldest replacing the shoes...unless the oldest brother somehow forced the 17 yo to sleep in the same room with the known footwear-destroyer.)
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beergut
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Post by beergut on Mar 11, 2016 13:45:02 GMT -5
Suggestion, diagnosis, opinion, doesn't matter what you call it, it is still worth what you paid for it. Yes, it does matter what one calls something. A suggestion is not a diagnosis, just as an apple is not a cucumber. I paid nothing and neither did you. What you do with the advice and suggestions you've received here is, of course, up to you. It was, however, your idea to bring these matters here to the forums for comment. Nobody here solicited this information from you. If you choose to bring your personal matters here to the boards, you can expect others to comment. Most of us do so honestly and with the desire to provide useful information. That's what's been done here, for the most part. If the information and opinions you receive don't suit you, I'd suggest you refrain from bringing such personal information here for comment. mmhmm, Administrator There is no need to get defensive.
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beergut
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Post by beergut on Mar 11, 2016 13:49:00 GMT -5
That's great you and the GF are on the same page! I'm wondering, in the past, how common it was for the 17 yo to experience boundary follow through like this?I could be sibling rivalry, but it could be that she's also upset that you all are enforcing boundaries as a united front for the first time. My tween likes to tell me "Well, all my friends abc." because he's upset with boundaries. His MO is to not drag his siblings into it. DD1, is the opposite when it comes to boundary pushing. Now, personally, myself, if enforcing financial boundaries is something new(er), I probably wouldn't pick *prom* as the time to do it. The timing of it is pretty cruel. Your GF had 16+ years to do this and chose not to. I'm curious how you problem solved with her, too. Did you all remind her she could earn more money doing chores around the house? Did she wear the shoes outside? If not, returning the shoes could have been an option. Does she have a saving account she can draw from? Is the oldest going to college next year. (And it's still debatable about the oldest replacing the shoes...unless the oldest brother somehow forced the 17 yo to sleep in the same room with the known footwear-destroyer.) No idea, only been here for two-plus years. I do know that hearing 'no' is still something of a new experience for her. If it wasn't prom, it would have been something else.
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mmhmm
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It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 11, 2016 16:48:03 GMT -5
Yes, it does matter what one calls something. A suggestion is not a diagnosis, just as an apple is not a cucumber. I paid nothing and neither did you. What you do with the advice and suggestions you've received here is, of course, up to you. It was, however, your idea to bring these matters here to the forums for comment. Nobody here solicited this information from you. If you choose to bring your personal matters here to the boards, you can expect others to comment. Most of us do so honestly and with the desire to provide useful information. That's what's been done here, for the most part. If the information and opinions you receive don't suit you, I'd suggest you refrain from bringing such personal information here for comment. mmhmm, Administrator There is no need to get defensive. LOL! No need to worry about me, beergut. I see nothing against which to defend.
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beergut
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Post by beergut on Mar 15, 2016 1:44:01 GMT -5
Latest... GF's college roommate's daughter (got that?) came to visit and stay overnight yesterday. She brought along three prom dresses that she wore when she was in high school (she is a sophomore in college). 17YO tried them on, looked amazing in two of them, and will be wearing one to prom. She still claims she'd prefer the one she wanted from the store, but she is just being churlish. So, she may simply end up borrowing a dress from a friend. That works for everyone.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 15, 2016 5:59:14 GMT -5
Yes it does.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2016 9:40:00 GMT -5
I had a foreign exchange student do that once. It was a frustrating few weeks of looking during which I was like, let's look at dresses in your price range, while she was all, let's try on these lovely things, then was upset when they were too much...finally she borrowed an elaborate gown from an aquaintance for just the cleaning fee after. Sigh. I'm glad my kids have no interest in proms.
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