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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Feb 8, 2016 14:21:30 GMT -5
I think half is ridiculous for 3 kids that aren't his own and a house that he has no ownership stake in. I think, half the taxes and insurance portion of the payment, and maybe even half of the interest portion if the others are negligible. If not half the interest portion, then half the food. And one fifth of the utilities, as they don't go up that significantly with one more person. The mom and birth dad should cover all kid stuff. This is for a live-in bf situation, not a step-parent. No, you have to completely disengage from the ownership angle. What is fair market rent for that house? what is the fair % of that for him to pay? that is how to establish what he should pay to be self supporting. I'm in this position somewhat. I have absolutely no financial interest in TD's house since he owned it before I moved in. He does not want me to have interest as it is his asset, not mine. However, when we broke the finances down between what he pays to live here, and what I'd pay to help out, it seemed stupid for me to pay half of bills. So what we do is split it down by expenses. I buy groceries. This generally runs me from $500-800/mo. My share of his utility bills would probably be around $200-300/mo.....so this works for us. This is about 1/3 of my income at this time, which both of us thought was fair. When/if I can start working, we will renegotiate.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 8, 2016 14:23:01 GMT -5
I'd have to agree that the whole scenario of Beer living there, not contributing to household expenses, but paying for extras for kids that are not his is just whacked and has led to this whole passive aggressive financial dance.
Man up and pay rent. It's the right thing to do. And stop playing sugar daddy. It's a bad example for the kids.
I would never ask a boyfriend to foot any of the bills for my children. My ex and I are fully responsible for paying for the costs of raising the children we had together. Not to say that I wouldn't allow a boyfriend to pick up a dinner tab for my kids but I would NEVER allow, let alone ask him, to pay for things like prom dresses, camps, etc.
the entire set up is just so screwed up. Pay rent and yoru share of things and let her know that the children's expenses are now hers to take care of. And where the hell is the father? Doesn't she get child support for the children? Granted, I don't get child support but the ex does pay me half of what I spend on them for things like braces, daycare, clotehs, etc.
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 8, 2016 15:21:22 GMT -5
I think every thread you've posted has the same theme and conclusions. What's appropriate for you to contribute financially is really dependent on the nature of your relationship with your GF. If you are a family and have a future together then it isn't what's fair for you to contribute but what's best for everyone and meets your goals as a family and as partners. If you are not fully committed to being a family and building a life together then you need to give her a set amount of money and back off from decisions that are about their futures and not yours.
And stop testing her, especially with things she doesn't know are a test. If you are holding off on marrying her until she's financially stable - clearly define what "stable" is and have that discussion with her. As it is, your arrangement is set up to encourage the exact behavior that upsets you. There's no incentive for her to change spending habits under the current arrangement, yet the current arrangement upsets you. You won't marry her until she changes something she doesn't know she needs to change...
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Blonde Granny
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Post by Blonde Granny on Feb 8, 2016 15:28:07 GMT -5
If you have read many of OP topics and posts, you may remember that most of the time what beer talks about is "I" "I" "Me" "Me".......he's the Daddy of the entire household, and he loves every minute of it. I said once he is a control freak, and they way he does it is control with money. It was him that took 1 of the daughters to the bank to open an account (one that he wanted her to have) same with buying DD a car, it was what he wanted for her, and when he doesn't get his way, he pouts or withholds money.
Oh, the drama of a dysfunctional relationship, too bad the 3 kids have been drawn into it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 15:38:13 GMT -5
I don't understand the set-up here either. Not that I would EVER move a guy in at this point...I refused to do that before with one kid...no boyfriends...but if I did, it would be a straight up "you pay me $X/month" kind of a deal. That just seems so much easier. If you're going to be married (or live that way) and combine everything with a joint budget, then do that, but the random bill paying here and there is just odd.
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Blonde Granny
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Post by Blonde Granny on Feb 8, 2016 15:44:16 GMT -5
But he doesn't want to get married, and I believe he uses her lack of financial ability as the excuse. He's got the best of both worlds. You know the old expression "why buy the cow......."
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Feb 8, 2016 15:46:44 GMT -5
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Post by mojothehelpermonkey on Feb 8, 2016 15:50:44 GMT -5
And I will say this about pretty in pink, which incidentally, came out when I was just a few years out of high school (and I was a pioneering new waver at the time) was ugly. I couldn't even believe she cut up two dresses that each would have been better than that horrid thing she wore to prom. I remember seeing the movie for the first time, and I was so excited to see the dress she came up with and I was like WTF? So - just because the movie pretended it was a nice dress, it was not. Ugly, ill fitting, shapeless, unflattering. Holding that monstrosity up as a way to go? I saw Pretty in Pink in the mid-90s when I was a teenager. When I saw her dress, I remember thinking the prom scene was going to involve all the rich kids making fun of her awful dress until she had a Carrie-style meltdown. When that didn't happen, I chalked it up to me just not understanding 80s fashions.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 8, 2016 15:57:09 GMT -5
Beergut...you didn't ask for a bunch of advise or criticism on your living arrangements but rather on whether or not to chip in for a prom dress. I would say that you should sit down and figure up what it costs your girlfriend to support you. I realize those are expenses that she would have to pay anyway even if you weren't there, but they are also expenses you would have to pay if you lived on your own. Then figure out what you contribute to those expenses. If there is a huge difference, and you feel like you want to help out, then give them X amount of dollars toward the purchase and let them decide from that point if they want to go ahead with the expensive dress or choose one that isn't as expensive. ETA: I realize you are not (nor should you be) obligated to contribute anything. I'm just saying that if you wish to....
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 8, 2016 15:59:07 GMT -5
Seriously, the dress in PIP was the ugliest dress ever made. I would be horrified if anybody suggested I make my own and referenced Pretty in Pink. Also, young girls bodies change so much from year to year, that buying a year in advance is not always practical. I couldn't wear any of my dresses in college because I ballooned up to a size 6 and finally had breasts. I was able to borrow a lot of dresses from girls on the hall my freshman and sophomore years and then from my roommates- and that was definitely a bonus.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Feb 8, 2016 16:01:48 GMT -5
I think half is ridiculous for 3 kids that aren't his own and a house that he has no ownership stake in. I think, half the taxes and insurance portion of the payment, and maybe even half of the interest portion if the others are negligible. If not half the interest portion, then half the food. And one fifth of the utilities, as they don't go up that significantly with one more person. The mom and birth dad should cover all kid stuff. This is for a live-in bf situation, not a step-parent. That's why I said a fair rent and not half of the mortgage.
But if the utilities don't go up that much for one person, couldn't the same be said in reverse? He would be paying more if he got utilities in his own name then paying half there? Because regardless of how much you use, there is the flat fee for service to the house?
I wouldn't let a man move in with me and mooch from me. If he wants to nickel and dime me he can find his own house to live in and foot all of the bills. Sharing expenses is usually cheaper for both parties...so to say that he should benefit from having a roommate but she shouldn't is ludicrous . If they aren't working towards a future together then they really should just live separately.
I'm not saying she shouldn't benefit too. This goes back to other old threads, but I always said that it should be mutually beneficial. Paying half of everything has him supporting the kids--even more than she is if she's getting child support. That's not really fair to him then.
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Post by mojothehelpermonkey on Feb 8, 2016 16:50:57 GMT -5
My experience is people with less means often spend more on Prom and HS grad than people with more money. My read is that HS grad is a bigger deal to them in their family and experience. I always expected my kids to go to college and graduate with at least a BA. So it wouldn't occur to me to spend a thousand or more on a prom. But if I was from a family where a HS graduation was the highest goal achieved or worse often not achieved at all maybe I would spend a shit load of money on it thinking it was the biggest deal of their lives so far. PS sorry for the super long run on sentence at the end. I'm just to tired today to fix it. Also, call me a feminist (I don't consider that an insult), but it makes me sad that proms and weddings are still being promoted as the most important days in a woman's life. I remember one of my coworkers in high school telling me I would eventually regret not going to my prom. That was almost 20 years ago, and the regret still hasn't kicked in. However, the prom does seem like one of those rites of passage though where it would be sad for kids not to be able to go because they couldn't afford it. (Expensive dresses, hair, limos, etc... are not required as far as I know.) I think Beergut and his GF should sit down together and make a budget so there is no resentment about who is paying for what. I can't believe no one has suggested that yet.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 8, 2016 16:52:22 GMT -5
My experience is people with less means often spend more on Prom and HS grad than people with more money. My read is that HS grad is a bigger deal to them in their family and experience. I always expected my kids to go to college and graduate with at least a BA. So it wouldn't occur to me to spend a thousand or more on a prom. But if I was from a family where a HS graduation was the highest goal achieved or worse often not achieved at all maybe I would spend a shit load of money on it thinking it was the biggest deal of their lives so far. PS sorry for the super long run on sentence at the end. I'm just to tired today to fix it. Also, call me a feminist (I don't consider that an insult), but it makes me sad that proms and weddings are still being promoted as the most important days in a woman's life. I remember one of my coworkers in high school telling me I would eventually regret not going to my prom. That was almost 20 years ago, and the regret still hasn't kicked in. However, the prom does seem like one of those rites of passage though where it would be sad for kids not to be able to go because they couldn't afford it. (Expensive dresses, hair, limos, etc... are not required as far as I know.) I think Beergut and his GF should sit down together and make a budget so there is no resentment about who is paying for what. I can't believe no one has suggested that yet. This isn't the first thread about this.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Feb 8, 2016 16:53:08 GMT -5
My experience is people with less means often spend more on Prom and HS grad than people with more money. My read is that HS grad is a bigger deal to them in their family and experience. I always expected my kids to go to college and graduate with at least a BA. So it wouldn't occur to me to spend a thousand or more on a prom. But if I was from a family where a HS graduation was the highest goal achieved or worse often not achieved at all maybe I would spend a shit load of money on it thinking it was the biggest deal of their lives so far. PS sorry for the super long run on sentence at the end. I'm just to tired today to fix it. Also, call me a feminist (I don't consider that an insult), but it makes me sad that proms and weddings are still being promoted as the most important days in a woman's life. I remember one of my coworkers in high school telling me I would eventually regret not going to my prom. That was almost 20 years ago, and the regret still hasn't kicked in. However, the prom does seem like one of those rites of passage though where it would be sad for kids not to be able to go because they couldn't afford it. (Expensive dresses, hair, limos, etc... are not required as far as I know.) I think Beergut and his GF should sit down together and make a budget so there is no resentment about who is paying for what. I can't believe no one has suggested that yet. I regret GOING to my proms. It was dull and boring. And annoying. I hate being fancy.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 8, 2016 16:55:25 GMT -5
DH regrets graduating early so he never went to his senior prom. I'm "meh" about having gone to prom. I have no idea where the photos are anymore. There is a lot of wiggle room between Pretty in Pink and a $500 prom dress with professional hair/nails and a limo.
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Feb 8, 2016 16:57:30 GMT -5
Also, call me a feminist (I don't consider that an insult), but it makes me sad that proms and weddings are still being promoted as the most important days in a woman's life. I remember one of my coworkers in high school telling me I would eventually regret not going to my prom. That was almost 20 years ago, and the regret still hasn't kicked in. However, the prom does seem like one of those rites of passage though where it would be sad for kids not to be able to go because they couldn't afford it. (Expensive dresses, hair, limos, etc... are not required as far as I know.) I think Beergut and his GF should sit down together and make a budget so there is no resentment about who is paying for what. I can't believe no one has suggested that yet. I regret GOING to my proms. It was dull and boring. And annoying. I hate being fancy. I love being fancy, but I didn't go to any of my high school dances/proms. I was too cool for that stuff back then, but I don't regret not going at all. On the night of my senior prom I got baked with my HS boyfriend and saw Gladiator. Totally better memory.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 17:01:51 GMT -5
My experience is people with less means often spend more on Prom and HS grad than people with more money. My read is that HS grad is a bigger deal to them in their family and experience. I always expected my kids to go to college and graduate with at least a BA. So it wouldn't occur to me to spend a thousand or more on a prom. But if I was from a family where a HS graduation was the highest goal achieved or worse often not achieved at all maybe I would spend a shit load of money on it thinking it was the biggest deal of their lives so far. PS sorry for the super long run on sentence at the end. I'm just to tired today to fix it. Also, call me a feminist (I don't consider that an insult), but it makes me sad that proms and weddings are still being promoted as the most important days in a woman's life. I remember one of my coworkers in high school telling me I would eventually regret not going to my prom. That was almost 20 years ago, and the regret still hasn't kicked in. However, the prom does seem like one of those rites of passage though where it would be sad for kids not to be able to go because they couldn't afford it. (Expensive dresses, hair, limos, etc... are not required as far as I know.) I think Beergut and his GF should sit down together and make a budget so there is no resentment about who is paying for what. I can't believe no one has suggested that yet. No regrets here either nearly 30 years later, so I think you're safe.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Feb 8, 2016 17:05:41 GMT -5
So far my experience with my kids is that DS thought of school as more a prison sentence than educational opportunity and didn't want anything to do with any of those kinds of activities. He doesn't regret missing it at all. DD is still in middle school and has been to several dances (not formals) in several inexpensive or borrowed dresses. She has enjoyed them but was saying that she didn't think she wants to go to the next dance, which is soon. I have no idea what my youngest will think about it all.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 17:17:04 GMT -5
Well, what kind of extras every month? If he is consistently paying for things like going out to eat, movies, games, ect... Do they add up to near the amount she pays for the non fun stuff? If so I think it's unreasonable to then have him pay for a $500 dress because it will be much more than that, shoes, hair, whatever else... That's asking an awful lot. She needs a budget for sure. Every boyfriend I ever had paid for those "extras". The ones who lived with me paid 1/2 rent, 1/2 utilities and extras. You make it sound like there have been a lot of boy friends paying 1/2 rent, 1/2 utilities and extras lol
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 8, 2016 17:20:41 GMT -5
Cotillion is extremely popular in my neighborhood. Sigh, my girls will have to beg me. So many things I'd rather spend money on than fancy dresses and primping.
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musicjenny
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Post by musicjenny on Feb 8, 2016 17:23:02 GMT -5
My bf has lived with me and the kids (3) for about 4 years. At first I just charged him what he was paying for his own apartment and utilities which added up to a little less than half of my expenses. He got to move into a bigger house with cable, a big yard and room to do all his man stuff. After awhile he just started paying a few bills that added up to about the same, plus he pays my small car payment. I feel we're evenly matched and if we move and buy a house together I would count his contributions towards any equity I've built up while he has been here. He typically buys supplies for any improvements we've made to the house and does all the handyman/lawn and garden work. I pay for everything for my kids except for an occasional meal out or a very modest Christmas/birthday present he would buy them himself. They already have a dad that pays support and picks up some of their extras. There is no way in hell I would ever expect bf to pay those. He makes more money than me and I know I could count on him if I fell into a genuine pinch. He would step up in an emergency without me asking and I would do the same.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 8, 2016 17:24:22 GMT -5
Every boyfriend I ever had paid for those "extras". The ones who lived with me paid 1/2 rent, 1/2 utilities and extras. You make it sound like there have been a lot of boy friends paying 1/2 rent, 1/2 utilities and extras lol Just a couple, but really my point was that many boyfriends pay for extras because they love their women and want to treat them. Paying rent does not automatically excuse you from paying for extras nor does it validate not paying living expenses. In my opinion, it shouldn't be one or the other. Although dinner and vacations is one thing, summer camp and prom dresses is another.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 8, 2016 17:34:52 GMT -5
Cotillion is extremely popular in my neighborhood. Sigh, my girls will have to beg me. So many things I'd rather spend money on than fancy dresses and primping. Why would they have to beg? Either you'll pay for the dresses or you won't. Making them beg seems kind of cruel. If you've already decided you won't spend money on "dresses and primping", let them know in advance so they can make arrangements to earn the money/save somehow to pay for it themselves.
My mom let me know well in advance of school shopping that she would NOT be paying for blue jeans with holes in them. I worked during the summer so I could buy them myself.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 8, 2016 17:42:57 GMT -5
Cotillion is extremely popular in my neighborhood. Sigh, my girls will have to beg me. So many things I'd rather spend money on than fancy dresses and primping. Why would they have to beg? Either you'll pay for the dresses or you won't. Making them beg seems kind of cruel. If you've already decided you won't spend money on "dresses and primping", let them know in advance so they can make arrangements to earn the money/save somehow to pay for it themselves.
My mom let me know well in advance of school shopping that she would NOT be paying for blue jeans with holes in them. I worked during the summer so I could buy them myself.
Not beg me to buy them dresses, beg me to enroll them in cotillion. If people think prom is expensive, cotillion is a whole new level. I'm not sure if its popularity is due to the parents or the kids. But, I'm athlete and my girls are 1, 4 and coming in March, so what do I know.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Feb 8, 2016 17:45:00 GMT -5
My experience is people with less means often spend more on Prom and HS grad than people with more money. My read is that HS grad is a bigger deal to them in their family and experience. I always expected my kids to go to college and graduate with at least a BA. So it wouldn't occur to me to spend a thousand or more on a prom. But if I was from a family where a HS graduation was the highest goal achieved or worse often not achieved at all maybe I would spend a shit load of money on it thinking it was the biggest deal of their lives so far. PS sorry for the super long run on sentence at the end. I'm just to tired today to fix it. Also, call me a feminist (I don't consider that an insult), but it makes me sad that proms and weddings are still being promoted as the most important days in a woman's life. I remember one of my coworkers in high school telling me I would eventually regret not going to my prom. That was almost 20 years ago, and the regret still hasn't kicked in. However, the prom does seem like one of those rites of passage though where it would be sad for kids not to be able to go because they couldn't afford it. (Expensive dresses, hair, limos, etc... are not required as far as I know.) I think Beergut and his GF should sit down together and make a budget so there is no resentment about who is paying for what. I can't believe no one has suggested that yet. Thing 2 is such a hermit, I haven't been able to talk her into going to dances either. She went to homecoming last year with Thing 1 and her friends, but hasn't been to anything this year. Thing 1 has since graduated and isn't here to drag her along. I really hope she goes to her senior prom though. I just want her to have the experience. We'll see if she goes. She's a sophomore now, so we'll see if she's less of a hermit in a couple of years.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 8, 2016 18:04:56 GMT -5
My experience is people with less means often spend more on Prom and HS grad than people with more money. My read is that HS grad is a bigger deal to them in their family and experience. I always expected my kids to go to college and graduate with at least a BA. So it wouldn't occur to me to spend a thousand or more on a prom. But if I was from a family where a HS graduation was the highest goal achieved or worse often not achieved at all maybe I would spend a shit load of money on it thinking it was the biggest deal of their lives so far. PS sorry for the super long run on sentence at the end. I'm just to tired today to fix it. Also, call me a feminist (I don't consider that an insult), but it makes me sad that proms and weddings are still being promoted as the most important days in a woman's life. I remember one of my coworkers in high school telling me I would eventually regret not going to my prom. That was almost 20 years ago, and the regret still hasn't kicked in. However, the prom does seem like one of those rites of passage though where it would be sad for kids not to be able to go because they couldn't afford it. (Expensive dresses, hair, limos, etc... are not required as far as I know.) I think Beergut and his GF should sit down together and make a budget so there is no resentment about who is paying for what. I can't believe no one has suggested that yet. Well I certainly don't think the prom should be "the best night of my daughter life". But I do want her to look and feel beautiful It is different around here. The kids that can afford to go all out do, and the ones that can't dont. I can afford it so I plan on buying my daughter a nice dress. My mom couldn't afford it so I worked and bought my own dress. I didn't want to look like the poor girl from PIP...Ii would have sooner stayed home! I've always loved to dress up so I don't get the hate on the prom.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 18:14:26 GMT -5
Well I certainly don't think the prom should be "the best night of my daughter life". But I do want her to look and feel beautiful It is different around here. The kids that can afford to go all out do, and the ones that can't dont. I can afford it so I plan on buying my daughter a nice dress. My mom couldn't afford it so I worked and bought my own dress. I didn't want to look like the poor girl from PIP...Ii would have sooner stayed home! I've always loved to dress up so I don't get the hate on the prom. I don't hate on prom...I just thought it was stupid. I just don't get the "Omg, you can't skip prom! It's a right of passage and you'll regret it later in life", thing that gets thrown around all the time. I was showing horses back then and spent a crap ton of money there, way more than a prom dress, so it's not the money aspect.
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musicjenny
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Post by musicjenny on Feb 8, 2016 18:19:18 GMT -5
I guess I don't really get that gf or daughter didn't just save up for this, it's not like they didn't know it was coming. Even if you don't have a job as a teenager you can babysit, shovel snow, save your birthday money or do something to get ready. My parents never came out and said that they weren't able to spring for prom stuff but you bet I picked up on it. Do the kids know about the money conflicts you two have?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 8, 2016 18:35:01 GMT -5
I guess I don't really get that gf or daughter didn't just save up for this, it's not like they didn't know it was coming. Even if you don't have a job as a teenager you can babysit, shovel snow, save your birthday money or do something to get ready. My parents never came out and said that they weren't able to spring for prom stuff but you bet I picked up on it. Do the kids know about the money conflicts you two have? Only if they're deaf and stupid.
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 8, 2016 19:10:32 GMT -5
Cotillion is extremely popular in my neighborhood. Sigh, my girls will have to beg me. So many things I'd rather spend money on than fancy dresses and primping. Why would they have to beg? Either you'll pay for the dresses or you won't. Making them beg seems kind of cruel. If you've already decided you won't spend money on "dresses and primping", let them know in advance so they can make arrangements to earn the money/save somehow to pay for it themselves.
My mom let me know well in advance of school shopping that she would NOT be paying for blue jeans with holes in them. I worked during the summer so I could buy them myself.
Cotillion starts in 7th grade (at least it does around here.) It can be tough for a 12 year old to earn her own money. Without advocating for or against Cotillion, at 7th grade it's likely to be something that involves some parental support.
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