mmhmm
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It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 9, 2016 13:37:11 GMT -5
I'm aware, andi. However, rather than defending yourself with further insults, it would seem better to simply ignore the insults coming from beergut . The best alternative would be to use the Report function to report said insults to staff and we'll deal with them, and beergut. mmhmm, Administrator Right on. I just didn't report anything thinking that I'm a big girl and can handle myself. But I get what you're saying. Great! It's not about whether you can handle it yourself. It's about how it's best handled to facilitate the needs of all posters. We're better able to do that only because we have the tools to make it effective.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2016 16:12:18 GMT -5
It doesn't matter if 3 is the magic number, or 7 or 2... The issue is the cycle Works4Sarah put up... Sometimes kids who have what some of you prefer to call a revolving door, i.e. What swamp was talking about new guys all the time, never get to 'new normal'... Right or wrong, sometimes that's actually EASiER to 'adjust' to, because you don't actually ever adjust. The reality stays the same all the time, i.e. new people are always in and out, and no, you don't ever trust anyone, because that is your constant state of being. But you learn the rules and you live by them. Is it good, no, but honestly it can be less traumatic than those who go through the the slower cycle of readjusting every year/ few years to 'new normals', new rules, new trying to figure out who to trust and on what terms... I've said before, it isn't just that a new stepparent makes changes for the kids, but often in this type of relationship the primary PARENT also changes in the new relationship, attempting to redefine themselves... That can honestly be a much harder deal.
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chen35
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Post by chen35 on Mar 9, 2016 18:30:58 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm not sure this is really a case of revolving door that many are jumping on here. Here is true case of revolving door, when my xSIL left my brother, she moved in with one POS. She filed a PPO against my brother at the same time, so there was absolutely nothing he could do about it. She left POS guy, and moved in with another, whom she eventually married and then divorced within a year. Apparently, he was somewhat abusive? (My DB never touched her, but she kept managing to get PPOs against him for no reason.) She cheated on her 2nd husband with her current live-in BF. This has all happened in about 7 years. She was never alone for more than a week or 2 if at all, and there was absolutely nothing my DB could do about the kids, as she had primary custody. She ignored the custody orders (my DBs time) throughout. He has always gotten the kids whenever it was convenient for her, regardless of the judges orders. She moved an hour away, and could have moved 8 hours away with the kids, and it would have been my DBs fault if he couldn't see them. Fortunately, DB and xSIL are getting along fine now. Her BF thanked my DB for stepping up lately. DB told me that, and I was like, WTF? He always wanted to see his kids--it was xSIL who was preventing it. So, BGs GF doesn't seem so bad to me in comparison. I would have wanted to punch that guy in the face.
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beergut
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Post by beergut on Mar 9, 2016 19:31:20 GMT -5
I didn't see any woman tearing any other woman apart. Y'all are harshly judging someone you have never met based on your assumptions and a lot of what is your wild imagination. You're tearing her apart because it is much easier to judge someone else you've never met than to look at yourself in the mirror.
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beergut
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Post by beergut on Mar 9, 2016 19:44:30 GMT -5
If anyone ever wanted to know why women don't like or trust other women, they only need to read this thread. Y'all just can't wait to tear each other apart. I don't see anyone tearing each other apart in this thread (well, except you and andi). But a lot of us have pointed out that the revolving door of men in the kids lives just isn't healthy. I'm sure it is difficult for you to see it because you dont' have kids and will never understand the need to put your children's well being above your own. The fact that she has moved a few men in, even over a long time span, tells me she makes bad choices when it comes to men. Those poor kids have not known stability because your gf puts her need of a man above her children's needs.
It isn't just Andi saying this, those you seem to keep targeting her. Read the thread...pretty much everyone on here is saying that same thing. It isn't an attack on you, just an observation that a woman without some of her own issues wouldn't move men in and out like that with kids in the picture.
You can start attacking me if you wish but I won't respond. But you really do need to take a step back and see what we are all telling you on here.
ETA: it appears that I can no longer spell....I don't care enough to edit
Maybe it comes down to semantics, but two men in ten years (or three in eleven, however you want to view it) isn't a 'revolving door'. You see that and say it is a revolving door and she makes poor choices in men (which is also a backhanded insult towards me, but I'll ignore that). I see a woman who fell in love, tried to give her kids some stability by moving in the person she thought would become a father figure and someone they all would have a future with, and it later turned out that person wasn't who she thought he was, so she moved him out. This probably may not be a popular opinion among some of the single moms on here, but I firmly believe children need both a mother and a father (or at least a father figure) to grow up well-adjusted. GF has tried hard since she divorced her ex to give her children that. And can we nip that "you don't have children, you don't understand" condescension in the bud. If I said, "You're not a male, you don't understand how it takes a man to raise a boy into a man", it would be just as condescending, and I'm sure it would probably really piss you off. If you think three men in 11 years is a 'revolving door', respectfully, you don't know what a revolving door is.
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beergut
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Post by beergut on Mar 9, 2016 19:50:07 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm not sure this is really a case of revolving door that many are jumping on here. Here is true case of revolving door, when my xSIL left my brother, she moved in with one POS. She filed a PPO against my brother at the same time, so there was absolutely nothing he could do about it. She left POS guy, and moved in with another, whom she eventually married and then divorced within a year. Apparently, he was somewhat abusive? (My DB never touched her, but she kept managing to get PPOs against him for no reason.) She cheated on her 2nd husband with her current live-in BF. This has all happened in about 7 years. She was never alone for more than a week or 2 if at all, and there was absolutely nothing my DB could do about the kids, as she had primary custody. She ignored the custody orders (my DBs time) throughout. He has always gotten the kids whenever it was convenient for her, regardless of the judges orders. She moved an hour away, and could have moved 8 hours away with the kids, and it would have been my DBs fault if he couldn't see them. Fortunately, DB and xSIL are getting along fine now. Her BF thanked my DB for stepping up lately. DB told me that, and I was like, WTF? He always wanted to see his kids--it was xSIL who was preventing it. So, BGs GF doesn't seem so bad to me in comparison. Wow If bio-dad said that me, I'd deck him. Kudos to your brother for not getting arrested for assault.
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Works4me
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Post by Works4me on Mar 9, 2016 21:10:17 GMT -5
I don't see anyone tearing each other apart in this thread (well, except you and andi). But a lot of us have pointed out that the revolving door of men in the kids lives just isn't healthy. I'm sure it is difficult for you to see it because you dont' have kids and will never understand the need to put your children's well being above your own. The fact that she has moved a few men in, even over a long time span, tells me she makes bad choices when it comes to men. Those poor kids have not known stability because your gf puts her need of a man above her children's needs.
It isn't just Andi saying this, those you seem to keep targeting her. Read the thread...pretty much everyone on here is saying that same thing. It isn't an attack on you, just an observation that a woman without some of her own issues wouldn't move men in and out like that with kids in the picture.
You can start attacking me if you wish but I won't respond. But you really do need to take a step back and see what we are all telling you on here.
ETA: it appears that I can no longer spell....I don't care enough to edit
Maybe it comes down to semantics, but two men in ten years (or three in eleven, however you want to view it) isn't a 'revolving door'. You see that and say it is a revolving door and she makes poor choices in men (which is also a backhanded insult towards me, but I'll ignore that). I see a woman who fell in love, tried to give her kids some stability by moving in the person she thought would become a father figure and someone they all would have a future with, and it later turned out that person wasn't who she thought he was, so she moved him out. This probably may not be a popular opinion among some of the single moms on here, but I firmly believe children need both a mother and a father (or at least a father figure) to grow up well-adjusted. GF has tried hard since she divorced her ex to give her children that. And can we nip that "you don't have children, you don't understand" condescension in the bud. If I said, "You're not a male, you don't understand how it takes a man to raise a boy into a man", it would be just as condescending, and I'm sure it would probably really piss you off. If you think three men in 11 years is a 'revolving door', respectfully, you don't know what a revolving door is. You miss the point: if you count their father, you are the fourth man these children have lived with in their short lives. FOUR! There is no way that creates a stable and secure home for children. Maybe you are just young still, but four father-figures in 12 years is a revolving door. Children need stability not men coming and going from their lives. A custodial parent does not have the same freedoms that a single adult with no children has. A responsible parent waits until s/he knows the other person before moving someone into their home. A respectable adult does not move into a home with children unless and until s/he is ready to make a full commitment to the entire family. You can object all you want and make as many excuses as you wish, but the bottom line is the home that you are creating with your girlfriend is not a desirable one for the children. It creates adults who are insecure, that have issues with commitment and bonding to others.
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suesinfl
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Post by suesinfl on Mar 9, 2016 21:50:51 GMT -5
I look at myself in the mirror everyday and I have no problems with the decisions that I have made, would I have made different ones if I could now? Sure, but that's a part of life and I made sure that I evaluated how my decisions would have affected my kids.
Well, sometimes I do look in the mirror and realize that I'm having a really bad hair day, then I regret looking in the mirror.
I also believe that boys need a "father figure" to be well-adjusted. My solution is/was to have my son involved in sports, Scouts and friends to help build the male bond and teach him things that I can't. He's fourteen and is doing great for the most part. Teenage hormones still come into play.
This may not work for everyone, but sometimes you have to try other alternatives other than bring men into your house. Just saying.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2016 21:57:14 GMT -5
Maybe it comes down to semantics, but two men in ten years (or three in eleven, however you want to view it) isn't a 'revolving door'. You see that and say it is a revolving door and she makes poor choices in men (which is also a backhanded insult towards me, but I'll ignore that). I see a woman who fell in love, tried to give her kids some stability by moving in the person she thought would become a father figure and someone they all would have a future with, and it later turned out that person wasn't who she thought he was, so she moved him out. This probably may not be a popular opinion among some of the single moms on here, but I firmly believe children need both a mother and a father (or at least a father figure) to grow up well-adjusted. GF has tried hard since she divorced her ex to give her children that. And can we nip that "you don't have children, you don't understand" condescension in the bud. If I said, "You're not a male, you don't understand how it takes a man to raise a boy into a man", it would be just as condescending, and I'm sure it would probably really piss you off. If you think three men in 11 years is a 'revolving door', respectfully, you don't know what a revolving door is. You miss the point: if you count their father, you are the fourth man these children have lived with in their short lives. FOUR! There is no way that creates a stable and secure home for children. Maybe you are just young still, but four father-figures in 12 years is a revolving door. Children need stability not men coming and going from their lives. A custodial parent does not have the same freedoms that a single adult with no children has. A responsible parent waits until s/he knows the other person before moving someone into their home. A respectable adult does not move into a home with children unless and until s/he is ready to make a full commitment to the entire family. You can object all you want and make as many excuses as you wish, but the bottom line is the home that you are creating with your girlfriend is not a desirable one for the children. It creates adults who are insecure, that have issues with commitment and bonding to others. You keep nailing it!
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Mar 9, 2016 22:53:37 GMT -5
And can we nip that "you don't have children, you don't understand" condescension in the bud. No, it's not condescending..It's the truth. The peanut is my 3rd child. DH and I were no where prepared or equipped to deal with a "high needs" child. Even after doing the dog and pony show twice before. My first two slept through the night for 12 hours by 10 weeks of age. After child #2, I firmly believed that other people made shit up about sleep deprivation. That it didn't exist. Then we had our third. And all I can say is THANK GOD I kept my mouth shut. Because that child, #3, has knocked us off of our parenting high horse and humbled us in more ways that I can count. When parents complain about sleep deprivation now I'm like "Right there with you." Because I get it. But it took me sleeping 3-5 hours a night for 13 months to understand sleep deprivation. I work/have worked with kids, lots of them. One dad drove his girl an hour, round trip, for a half hour lesson with me. Why? The girl and her mom were at odds for much of their relationship, and the dad wanted the girl to have a safe place to talk about it if she needed it. I never once pretended to have the authority of a parent with her. Even though I was her confidant, I was NOT her mom. If DH wants to start a fight with me, he tells me he understand the pressures of being solely responsible for the financial wellbeing of the entire family. Because it's bull crap. He works 20 hours a week to pay for private school, some of his needs (mostly car related), and his wants. It pisses me off, because he has NO CLUE. Same as if I take care of the kids by myself for a week. That doesn't entitle me to say "DH, I totally understand the tedium of changing 90% of the diapers for 10 years, because I did it 10 days with one child." Also bullcrap. I get that it takes a village. Do you influence those kids? Sure. Is your influence valuable? Most definitely. That doesn't mean you understand....Unless you've got bio kids that have gone through the exact same situation as your GF's kids.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2016 23:14:00 GMT -5
Or were one.
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beergut
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Post by beergut on Mar 10, 2016 0:14:42 GMT -5
There is a collection of essays by people who study families called "Families as they really are" which is a great read. Interestingly enough children of single mothers do quite well, even compared to married mothers, if their mothers do not have a lot of different men in their lives. Boys appear to be especially vulnerable to the presence of step-fathers and boyfriends. If it makes you feel better I have a single mom friend who complains about her ex and his revolving door of "fiances." Her sons get attached to the girlfriend and then are mystified when they disappear completely. As much as you don't want to hear it being a parent changes your perspective. One of the things that I've learned is that what's good for me is not necessarily good for my child and vice versa. My child is an individual with his own thoughts, feelings, and experiences. You can have a good relationship with your GF and it can still be hard on her kids. Her exes can be complete assholes and her kids might still miss them and have feelings of loss and confusion regarding their absence and the presence of someone new. Malcolm Gladwell in David and Goliath had a whole section on how kids who lost one of their parents to premature death can thrive because they have experienced the worst thing that can happen to a kid, so their ability to be risk-takers in life is magnified.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 10, 2016 6:08:56 GMT -5
I don't see anyone tearing each other apart in this thread (well, except you and andi). But a lot of us have pointed out that the revolving door of men in the kids lives just isn't healthy. I'm sure it is difficult for you to see it because you dont' have kids and will never understand the need to put your children's well being above your own. The fact that she has moved a few men in, even over a long time span, tells me she makes bad choices when it comes to men. Those poor kids have not known stability because your gf puts her need of a man above her children's needs.
It isn't just Andi saying this, those you seem to keep targeting her. Read the thread...pretty much everyone on here is saying that same thing. It isn't an attack on you, just an observation that a woman without some of her own issues wouldn't move men in and out like that with kids in the picture.
You can start attacking me if you wish but I won't respond. But you really do need to take a step back and see what we are all telling you on here.
ETA: it appears that I can no longer spell....I don't care enough to edit
Maybe it comes down to semantics, but two men in ten years (or three in eleven, however you want to view it) isn't a 'revolving door'. You see that and say it is a revolving door and she makes poor choices in men (which is also a backhanded insult towards me, but I'll ignore that). I see a woman who fell in love, tried to give her kids some stability by moving in the person she thought would become a father figure and someone they all would have a future with, and it later turned out that person wasn't who she thought he was, so she moved him out. This probably may not be a popular opinion among some of the single moms on here, but I firmly believe children need both a mother and a father (or at least a father figure) to grow up well-adjusted. GF has tried hard since she divorced her ex to give her children that. And can we nip that "you don't have children, you don't understand" condescension in the bud. If I said, "You're not a male, you don't understand how it takes a man to raise a boy into a man", it would be just as condescending, and I'm sure it would probably really piss you off. If you think three men in 11 years is a 'revolving door', respectfully, you don't know what a revolving door is. We will have to agree to disagree on the acceptability of having 3 men plus the fatheriving with the kids over a 10 year span. That is not stability...that is chaos to kids. But you don't see it or don't want to see it so there is no point arguing back and forth You will be surprised but I agree with you about having a father in a biys life. My ex father died when he was two and I know he was very sad to grow up without a father. I also think he never knew how to be a good father (or at least not a selfish one) because he didn't have a role model. So I actually do agree with you there. Unfortunately not all kids have good fathers. I do think the loss of tr family unit is one of the things bringing this country down. And I say that as someone whose kids are now living in a broken hone
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 10, 2016 6:16:16 GMT -5
I think this is it. You and I both had revolving doors of people (you with your dad and me with my mom). We lived it and see how damaging it is for children.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Mar 10, 2016 9:07:28 GMT -5
There is a collection of essays by people who study families called "Families as they really are" which is a great read. Interestingly enough children of single mothers do quite well, even compared to married mothers, if their mothers do not have a lot of different men in their lives. Boys appear to be especially vulnerable to the presence of step-fathers and boyfriends. If it makes you feel better I have a single mom friend who complains about her ex and his revolving door of "fiances." Her sons get attached to the girlfriend and then are mystified when they disappear completely. As much as you don't want to hear it being a parent changes your perspective. One of the things that I've learned is that what's good for me is not necessarily good for my child and vice versa. My child is an individual with his own thoughts, feelings, and experiences. You can have a good relationship with your GF and it can still be hard on her kids. Her exes can be complete assholes and her kids might still miss them and have feelings of loss and confusion regarding their absence and the presence of someone new. Malcolm Gladwell in David and Goliath had a whole section on how kids who lost one of their parents to premature death can thrive because they have experienced the worst thing that can happen to a kid, so their ability to be risk-takers in life is magnified. Any kid CAN thrive in any situation, but in generally, 4 guys moving in and out of the house in 10-12 years is really not a good idea and conducive to raising stable children.
Children should have a stable male figure in their life, not a succession of them.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Mar 10, 2016 9:09:03 GMT -5
Maybe it comes down to semantics, but two men in ten years (or three in eleven, however you want to view it) isn't a 'revolving door'. You see that and say it is a revolving door and she makes poor choices in men (which is also a backhanded insult towards me, but I'll ignore that). I see a woman who fell in love, tried to give her kids some stability by moving in the person she thought would become a father figure and someone they all would have a future with, and it later turned out that person wasn't who she thought he was, so she moved him out. This probably may not be a popular opinion among some of the single moms on here, but I firmly believe children need both a mother and a father (or at least a father figure) to grow up well-adjusted. GF has tried hard since she divorced her ex to give her children that. And can we nip that "you don't have children, you don't understand" condescension in the bud. If I said, "You're not a male, you don't understand how it takes a man to raise a boy into a man", it would be just as condescending, and I'm sure it would probably really piss you off. If you think three men in 11 years is a 'revolving door', respectfully, you don't know what a revolving door is. We will have to agree to disagree on the acceptability of having 3 men plus the fatheriving with the kids over a 10 year span. That is not stability...that is chaos to kids. But you don't see it or don't want to see it so there is no point arguing back and forth You will be surprised but I agree with you about having a father in a biys life. My ex father died when he was two and I know he was very sad to grow up without a father. I also think he never knew how to be a good father (or at least not a selfish one) because he didn't have a role model. So I actually do agree with you there. Unfortunately not all kids have good fathers. I do think the loss of tr family unit is one of the things bringing this country down. And I say that as someone whose kids are now living in a broken hone I don't think anyone disagrees with you that it is important to have a father/stable father figure. It's the number of them that is the problem.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Mar 10, 2016 9:42:38 GMT -5
We will have to agree to disagree on the acceptability of having 3 men plus the fatheriving with the kids over a 10 year span. That is not stability...that is chaos to kids. But you don't see it or don't want to see it so there is no point arguing back and forth You will be surprised but I agree with you about having a father in a biys life. My ex father died when he was two and I know he was very sad to grow up without a father. I also think he never knew how to be a good father (or at least not a selfish one) because he didn't have a role model. So I actually do agree with you there. Unfortunately not all kids have good fathers. I do think the loss of tr family unit is one of the things bringing this country down. And I say that as someone whose kids are now living in a broken hone I don't think anyone disagrees with you that it is important to have a father/stable father figure. It's the number of them that is the problem. If she's on BF #3 in about 10 years (assuming each one of them lives with her for at least a few years), then it seems to me that she's moving these men into her home with her children pretty quickly. Mind you, I don't understand why single parents move BFs and GFs into their homes without being engaged (or a similar level of commitment if you don't believe in marriage). I would think if the relationship is serious enough that you want that you want that person to be in your kid's on a more permanent basis that you would have already discussed that the relationship is now a long-term permanent one.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Mar 10, 2016 12:17:21 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm not sure this is really a case of revolving door that many are jumping on here. Here is true case of revolving door, when my xSIL left my brother, she moved in with one POS. She filed a PPO against my brother at the same time, so there was absolutely nothing he could do about it. She left POS guy, and moved in with another, whom she eventually married and then divorced within a year. Apparently, he was somewhat abusive? (My DB never touched her, but she kept managing to get PPOs against him for no reason.) She cheated on her 2nd husband with her current live-in BF. This has all happened in about 7 years. She was never alone for more than a week or 2 if at all, and there was absolutely nothing my DB could do about the kids, as she had primary custody. She ignored the custody orders (my DBs time) throughout. He has always gotten the kids whenever it was convenient for her, regardless of the judges orders. She moved an hour away, and could have moved 8 hours away with the kids, and it would have been my DBs fault if he couldn't see them. Fortunately, DB and xSIL are getting along fine now. Her BF thanked my DB for stepping up lately. DB told me that, and I was like, WTF? He always wanted to see his kids--it was xSIL who was preventing it. So, BGs GF doesn't seem so bad to me in comparison. Wow If bio-dad said that me, I'd deck him. Kudos to your brother for not getting arrested for assault. So he could get yet another PPO against him, only for a legitimate reason? DB has come a long way in getting along with his ex and actually likes this new BF of hers. I just think it's funny the spin that ex has put on it all, evidently. First, my DB was the devil and now he's great, except he's pretty much the same. He's more willing to chip in for extras now that his child support isn't astronomically high. Go figure!
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Mar 10, 2016 12:17:57 GMT -5
I don't think anyone disagrees with you that it is important to have a father/stable father figure. It's the number of them that is the problem. If she's on BF #3 in about 10 years (assuming each one of them lives with her for at least a few years), then it seems to me that she's moving these men into her home with her children pretty quickly. Mind you, I don't understand why single parents move BFs and GFs into their homes without being engaged (or a similar level of commitment if you don't believe in marriage). I would think if the relationship is serious enough that you want that you want that person to be in your kid's on a more permanent basis that you would have already discussed that the relationship is now a long-term permanent one. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I swear each other BF was there less than a year. Which was the boy's issue, he doesn't think anything is going to be permanent. I've read too many pages now to be sure and am cross eyed from all the assumptions.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Mar 10, 2016 12:35:42 GMT -5
I thought they had been there for a year or two each. Though I don't know how long beer has been dating or living with the mom.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Mar 10, 2016 13:20:20 GMT -5
And can we nip that "you don't have children, you don't understand" condescension in the bud. No, it's not condescending..It's the truth. I politely call BS. I TOTALLY agree that at least in *some* arenas, it is condescension to put the other party in their place and/or get them to shut up - pure and simple.
You do not have to know how to lay an egg to make a good omelette.
Some of the best parents I have seen are folks without biological offspring who have the knowledge and skills to care for and grow up responsible children.
Some of the worst parents I have seen are parents only by the accident of biology.
I am NOT defending beergut or taking an oppositional stand to any of the conversations about revolving doors, but I AM calling out the "you don't have children, you don't understand" myth.
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justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
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Post by justme on Mar 10, 2016 13:21:18 GMT -5
There are a million ways to find good male role models for children. But no where in the list of attributes of what makes a good male role model for kids is schtooping their mom.
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mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 10, 2016 13:46:22 GMT -5
I haven't participated here as a poster. I've only participated as staff. However, I've dealt with a lot of patients over the years who have undergone exactly what's being discussed here. It's not about what we, as adults (whether a part of the situation or simply onlookers), think about what's being done with regard to providing a "father figure". It's about how the kids for whom said "father figure" is being provided feel about it.
It's really difficult to get kids to talk about how they feel; especially, about this sort of thing. Their feelings are usually pretty mixed up since they really don't have the life experience to figure out all the aspects of the situation. Most of the time, nobody asks them how they feel about it anyway. If they're older, they might be asked how they feel about someone moving in, but they're not asked about how they feel about somebody ELSE moving in after others have moved in, then moved out. If healthcare providers get the opportunity, the kids will sometimes talk to us. I always referred to a psychologist/psychiatrist since I didn't feel qualified to deal with such deeply personal, emotional issues; however, I've fielded a lot of questions and wiped a lot of tears.
I'd suggest psychological counselling for all involved. Whether one, or both of the adults involved think they're coping just fine isn't what's important, as I see it. What's important is what the kids feel, what they're learning, and what effects they're experiencing. Having children is a wonderful gift. It's also a huge responsibility. I do feel for these young ones. Their lives have been confusing, believe me. They'd benefit from the opportunity to discuss matters with a professional so they can sort it out and come to truly understand.
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Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 10, 2016 13:51:25 GMT -5
No, it's not condescending..It's the truth. I politely call BS. I TOTALLY agree that at least in *some* arenas, it is condescension to put the other party in their place and/or get them to shut up - pure and simple.
You do not have to know how to lay an egg to make a good omelette.
Some of the best parents I have seen are folks without biological offspring who have the knowledge and skills to care for and grow up responsible children.
Some of the worst parents I have seen are parents only by the accident of biology.
I am NOT defending beergut or taking an oppositional stand to any of the conversations about revolving doors, but I AM calling out the "you don't have children, you don't understand" myth.
If you don't have children you will never know the unconditional love or need to put your children above your own needs. Sorry if you think that is BS. I didn't understand it until I had children. I chose to bring them into this world and it is my responsibility to put their health (including mental) and needs above my own. If my niece and nephew came to live with me when they were younger I wouldn't have had that same unconditional feeling towards them because they weren't my children.
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Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 10, 2016 13:52:42 GMT -5
I haven't participated here as a poster. I've only participated as staff. However, I've dealt with a lot of patients over the years who have undergone exactly what's being discussed here. It's not about what we, as adults (whether a part of the situation or simply onlookers), think about what's being done with regard to providing a "father figure". It's about how the kids for whom said "father figure" is being provided feel about it. It's really difficult to get kids to talk about how they feel; especially, about this sort of thing. Their feelings are usually pretty mixed up since they really don't have the life experience to figure out all the aspects of the situation. Most of the time, nobody asks them how they feel about it anyway. If they're older, they might be asked how they feel about someone moving in, but they're not asked about how they feel about somebody ELSE moving in after others have moved in, then moved out. If healthcare providers get the opportunity, the kids will sometimes talk to us. I always referred to a psychologist/psychiatrist since I didn't feel qualified to deal with such deeply personal, emotional issues; however, I've fielded a lot of questions and wiped a lot of tears. I'd suggest psychological counselling for all involved. Whether one, or both of the adults involved think they're coping just fine isn't what's important, as I see it. What's important is what the kids feel, what they're learning, and what effects they're experiencing. Having children is a wonderful gift. It's also a huge responsibility. I do feel for these young ones. Their lives have been confusing, believe me. They'd benefit from the opportunity to discuss matters with a professional so they can sort it out and come to truly understand. I appreciate your views as a medical professional. I can only speak as a mother and as a child who saw men roll in and out of my life.
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Deleted
Joined: Oct 7, 2024 12:27:52 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2016 13:56:44 GMT -5
Wow If bio-dad said that me, I'd deck him. Kudos to your brother for not getting arrested for assault. So he could get yet another PPO against him, only for a legitimate reason? DB has come a long way in getting along with his ex and actually likes this new BF of hers. I just think it's funny the spin that ex has put on it all, evidently. First, my DB was the devil and now he's great, except he's pretty much the same. He's more willing to chip in for extras now that his child support isn't astronomically high. Go figure! Maybe when they break up your brother will keep him as a friend. One of my dads best friends is stepmother 4's most recent ex husband before dad.
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mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 10, 2016 14:00:38 GMT -5
I haven't participated here as a poster. I've only participated as staff. However, I've dealt with a lot of patients over the years who have undergone exactly what's being discussed here. It's not about what we, as adults (whether a part of the situation or simply onlookers), think about what's being done with regard to providing a "father figure". It's about how the kids for whom said "father figure" is being provided feel about it. It's really difficult to get kids to talk about how they feel; especially, about this sort of thing. Their feelings are usually pretty mixed up since they really don't have the life experience to figure out all the aspects of the situation. Most of the time, nobody asks them how they feel about it anyway. If they're older, they might be asked how they feel about someone moving in, but they're not asked about how they feel about somebody ELSE moving in after others have moved in, then moved out. If healthcare providers get the opportunity, the kids will sometimes talk to us. I always referred to a psychologist/psychiatrist since I didn't feel qualified to deal with such deeply personal, emotional issues; however, I've fielded a lot of questions and wiped a lot of tears. I'd suggest psychological counselling for all involved. Whether one, or both of the adults involved think they're coping just fine isn't what's important, as I see it. What's important is what the kids feel, what they're learning, and what effects they're experiencing. Having children is a wonderful gift. It's also a huge responsibility. I do feel for these young ones. Their lives have been confusing, believe me. They'd benefit from the opportunity to discuss matters with a professional so they can sort it out and come to truly understand. I appreciate your views as a medical professional. I can only speak as a mother and as a child who saw men roll in and out of my life. I hear you! I've heard you with other faces and other names. I've dried your tears by proxy and I felt the pain and confusion behind those tears. Kids are really good at covering things like this. They don't want to cause a problem. Many of them blame themselves when the latest "new dad" walks out of their lives. They're sure they were the sole reason. That's kids - it's how they think. You start stacking up that blame with multiple, missing "new dads" and you're creating a really bad situation for that child that's going to have to be dealt with sooner or later. Otherwise, that individual will suffer the emotional consequences until it is dealt with. It can cause lifetime damage. There's no question about that.
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beergut
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 11, 2011 13:58:39 GMT -5
Posts: 2,184
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Post by beergut on Mar 10, 2016 14:40:13 GMT -5
I politely call BS. I TOTALLY agree that at least in *some* arenas, it is condescension to put the other party in their place and/or get them to shut up - pure and simple.
You do not have to know how to lay an egg to make a good omelette.
Some of the best parents I have seen are folks without biological offspring who have the knowledge and skills to care for and grow up responsible children.
Some of the worst parents I have seen are parents only by the accident of biology.
I am NOT defending beergut or taking an oppositional stand to any of the conversations about revolving doors, but I AM calling out the "you don't have children, you don't understand" myth.
If you don't have children you will never know the unconditional love or need to put your children above your own needs. Sorry if you think that is BS. I didn't understand it until I had children. I chose to bring them into this world and it is my responsibility to put their health (including mental) and needs above my own. If my niece and nephew came to live with me when they were younger I wouldn't have had that same unconditional feeling towards them because they weren't my children.
Oh, please. When the F5 tornado hit Oklahoma and leveled a school, they found dead teachers huddled over their still-living students, protecting them from the destruction. But "they don't understand unconditional love or the need to put children above their own needs" because those kids aren't their biological children, right?
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beergut
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 11, 2011 13:58:39 GMT -5
Posts: 2,184
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Post by beergut on Mar 10, 2016 14:41:57 GMT -5
No, it's not condescending..It's the truth.
You do not have to know how to lay an egg to make a good omelette.
Thank you. This is putting it succinctly.
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Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 10, 2016 14:43:13 GMT -5
If you don't have children you will never know the unconditional love or need to put your children above your own needs. Sorry if you think that is BS. I didn't understand it until I had children. I chose to bring them into this world and it is my responsibility to put their health (including mental) and needs above my own. If my niece and nephew came to live with me when they were younger I wouldn't have had that same unconditional feeling towards them because they weren't my children.
Oh, please. When the F5 tornado hit Oklahoma and leveled a school, they found dead teachers huddled over their still-living students, protecting them from the destruction. But "they don't understand unconditional love or the need to put children above their own needs" because those kids aren't their biological children, right? I do like how you select very few things on here to quote..yet you completely disagree with the health professional who tells you that you and your gf are fucking up the kids....way to deflect the bigger issues at hand
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