Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Feb 4, 2016 18:01:21 GMT -5
When I'm being accused of rape NO i refuse to accept that.
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gregintenn
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Post by gregintenn on Feb 4, 2016 18:03:09 GMT -5
When I'm being accused of rape NO i refuse to accept that. I took it to mean fraud instead of rape, but whatever.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 18:04:10 GMT -5
When I'm being accused of rape NO i refuse to accept that. I did not accuse you of rape. However you have taken away your partner's choice in this matter and that is their RIGHT. Your concern for rights seems a little one sided. It is very possible to support someone's right to choose without thinking that certain choices are good ones. I am falling into that category.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 4, 2016 18:05:15 GMT -5
IF. I do not want to have to put a label on myself I should NOT have to put a label on myself. If I WANT to blend in with the world as a cismale that SHOULD be my right. -- She wanted to have sex with me when I wasn't even sure I was ready to have sex to begin with as a transitioned male. It was CONSENSUAL. I was not giving her an STD. I was not forcing her to have sex with me. I will NOT recommend it to all of my trans friends. A transman that has a hook up with a girl should not be forced to tell every girl he sleeps with he is trans. He should not be forced to tell someone he is trans that he doesn't trust. A transman should have the right to sleep with someone just as much as a cismale as well without worrying about their identity being put through a blender. SHOULD we just never have sex? It's not easy to trust people with being transgender. It's not easy to trust it won't get out. Does that mean we don't deserve to be loved? Does that mean we don't deserve to have sex for fun like other cismen? Or have an intimate relationship with a women? It took me years to come out as trans. YEARS. And I have to worry about my future but I want love and I want to be loved. I tell girls as of now but it's my right not to if I'm to move and want to get into a job where nobody knows me. I'm not going to trust a person right off the back with me being trans after only a few months of knowing them if my job is on the line. And that's my right. It's my right to not want to be labeled. It's my right to just want to identify as a male and not a transmale. That is my RIGHT. If you don't trust someone you shouldn't be having sex with them If a trans person asked me out I would respectfully decline. I've been hit on by lesbians (I go out with my aunt sometimes and she has lesbian friends). I respectfully decline. If a grand person was ever deceitful and misled me and I found out, it would be my mission to out that slimy bastard to as many people as I could. I would plaster pictures on facebook and tell of the deceit...I would ask my friends to share the picture so no other unsuspecting woman fell victim Im all about honesty. Fuck with me and I make it my lifes mission to let everyone know what an asshole you are
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Feb 4, 2016 18:07:07 GMT -5
Life used to be more simple. You are attracted to someone. You spend time getting to know each other. Then comes the dreaded meeting the family. First time sex could be great or a learning experience. Many interesting points brought up here besides the trans part. Criminal record, financial debt, life goals, health, previous marriages. I lot goes into picking a life partner....and a bit of luck as well. Yes luck and work. Our parents taught us to give 100+% and never go to bed mad. It has worked for 45 years. 5 of them happy. Sorry I didn't mean that.
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Feb 4, 2016 18:07:28 GMT -5
I have NEVER in my entire life been accused of such a horrendous thing. I have NEVER forced myself upon a woman. I have NEVER even slept with a drunk girl or tried to get a girl drunk to sleep with me. I dont' even drink.
I have NEVER even been with a girl I haven't loved before. I have NEVER not told a girl i'm trans because I was afraid she wouldn't sleep with me either.
It has always been a fear that something would get out. That my life would be over if I was found out that I'm trans. EVEN people that trans people trust with high authority...that's something that if leaked could RUIN THEIR LIFE. Make them lose a job for one. It could destroy them if it leaked. Many people hide it so that they can blend in with the world and not have to fear society ruining their lives.
And yes...some trans men just don't think it's important...
But for me?
If I EVER was to withhold it. It would be BECAUSE I'm terrified it'll ruin my life if it got out. Not because I don't love her. Not because I want sex because to me I could go without...but the girls I've been with are very sexual... considering i've only been with three.
But should a transman have to never be loved or have sex because he fears it'll get out? That's not right. And in the age were living in people don't just have sex with people they love... it's often for fun now too. I know so many cis people that have sex just for fun. Heck.. my best cis male friend has literally been with 25 people... TWENTY-FIVE...that disgusts me a bit but I love him. I'd think being with a man that's been with 25 woman is a bigger issue then a transman but that's just me...I wouldn't want to catch something.
--
But here's the thing? In order to tell someone were trans...we'd have to risk it getting out and being destroyed rather we were upfront or not. We'd be having to tell SO many people... and risk so many times being told. Every time we were about to enter a new relationship we'd have to trust that person... it takes months to trust... months. years sometimes.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 4, 2016 18:07:42 GMT -5
But, I'm sorry if it appears I don't accept people. I do accept people. What I wasn't accepting was a view that were less of a man for not being born with a penis. That we should have to tell every person were with were trans early on and that being compared to rape if we don't. I don't understand why you would want to date someone who couldn't accept you as a partner (which is different than accepting you as a person). Why waste time dating when in the end it would never work?
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copperboxes
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Post by copperboxes on Feb 4, 2016 18:07:46 GMT -5
Not telling someone that you are going to have sex with that your trans takes away their choice. To me it's in the same category as getting someone drunk so they will have sex with you. It's slimy. Do you mean you feel all trans people should volunteer the information? I don't really see it. Some people would freak out if they slept with people of different enthnicities. I don't get it, but it's a big honking deal to them. It's not like people need to say at each date "full disclosure, I'm actually 1/4 XYZ even though you can't visually tell." Occasionally people of all walks of life are really startling frank about their racial preferences for dating or marriage sometimes, and it weirds me out how adamant some are about it, no matter which ethnicity is saying so. It's a thing for them. Some would feel tainted if they slept with people not of their preference. Yet people don't need to give their entire genetic background as a matter of course. If it's a huge honking deal to me, I'll ask as I get to know someone, even if it's fairly rare, because it's a big deal to me. Only if I ask and they lie to me is it a betrayal. If I didn't care enough to ask, I'm not going to slash at someone. That's my stance on relationships.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 4, 2016 18:11:16 GMT -5
Not telling someone that you are going to have sex with that your trans takes away their choice. To me it's in the same category as getting someone drunk so they will have sex with you. It's slimy. Do you mean you feel all trans people should volunteer the information? I don't really see it. Some people would freak out if they slept with people of different enthnicities. I don't get it, but it's a big honking deal to them. It's not like people need to say at each date "full disclosure, I'm actually 1/4 XYZ even though you can't visually tell." Occasionally people of all walks of life are really startling frank about their racial preferences for dating or marriage sometimes, and it weirds me out how adamant some are about it, no matter which ethnicity is saying so. It's a thing for them. Some would feel tainted if they slept with people not of their preference. Yet people don't need to give their entire genetic background as a matter of course. If it's a huge honking deal to me, I'll ask as I get to know someone, even if it's fairly rare, because it's a big deal to me. Only if I ask and they lie to me is it a betrayal. If I didn't care enough to ask, I'm not going to slash at someone. That's my stance on relationships. To be fair, I never would have thought I had to ask if the guy I was dating ever had a vagina. I tend to go for te alpha male types so I kind of assume they were born with a penis I do ask if they are married.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 18:12:54 GMT -5
But should a transman have to never be loved or have sex because he fears it'll get out? That's not right. And in the age were living in people don't just have sex with people they love... it's often for fun now too. I know so many cis people that have sex just for fun. Heck.. my best cis male friend has literally been with 25 people... TWENTY-FIVE...that disgusts me a bit but I love him. I'd think being with a man that's been with 25 woman is a bigger issue then a transman but that's just me...I wouldn't want to catch something. How would you feel finding out after the fact that your female partner has had over 50 partners?
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Feb 4, 2016 18:14:51 GMT -5
If you have an issue with it then yes...ask. That's much better then expecting them to tell you.
You may be disgusted finding out later. You may feel lied to.
But? Them? Risking telling someone. Risking having to trust after only a few months of knowing a person they want a relationship with? They risk a lot more then just being disgusted. They risk losing their job. They risk losing friends. They risk people finding out and living in a world where they don't want to be known as trans. They've spent their entire life wanting to blend in as a cismale... to just have it destroyed because they weren't upfront because it's hard when that can be your entire life at risk.
You can't expect every trans male not to be intimate for a year, two years, until they fully trust that person. Cis people dont' wait that long. Some trans male will be trusting enough but ... man is it hard.
I've lived it. I don't anymore as of now. But I did. I'm still scared. I'm still terrified my life will be ruined...that i'll never get where I'm meant to be because i'm trans.
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Feb 4, 2016 18:16:37 GMT -5
But should a transman have to never be loved or have sex because he fears it'll get out? That's not right. And in the age were living in people don't just have sex with people they love... it's often for fun now too. I know so many cis people that have sex just for fun. Heck.. my best cis male friend has literally been with 25 people... TWENTY-FIVE...that disgusts me a bit but I love him. I'd think being with a man that's been with 25 woman is a bigger issue then a transman but that's just me...I wouldn't want to catch something. How would you feel finding out after the fact that your female partner has had over 50 partners? It happens. And it depends how far into the relationship I was. I wouldn't expect her to be upfront after only a couple of months being together. HECK. A lot of relationships don't talk about how many people they've been with. It's her past. As long as she doesn't cheat on me I don't care. As long as she's clean as well. I'd only be angry if she knowingly had an STD and gave it to me. Because she'd make me sick.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 18:24:09 GMT -5
Kolt! you are dismissing the fact that this is an important issue to many people for very valid reasons. Having sex is not an inherent right, going without sex doesn't kill people and wanting to have sex does not justify taking away people's choices. That's the last time I'm going to comment on it. The chances of it being relevant to me are pretty slim. And I said way back around page 2, I address people in whatever way they present themselves. I'm not too concerned about who is cis and who is trans in my daily transactions with people.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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They killed Kenny, the bastards.
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Feb 4, 2016 18:24:29 GMT -5
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Feb 4, 2016 18:25:34 GMT -5
I feel like for some people on here as well...this isn't only a trans issue.
I think a lot of people here take sex as something as someone only should do if they love the person and have been with them for a long time.
-- But a lot of college kids don't do that. And, I don't think it's really fair to ask a transman to only have sex with people he's told that he's trans to because he'd only be able to tell those he truly trusts. And then? What he isn't supposed to enjoy the sex lifestyle as his cis male friends just because he's trans?
--
I don't know the sex for only relationships is a whole different ballpark. But, I just keep noticing people saying sex should only be for people you love and trust. I used to believe I'd only have sex after marriage. But...I don't know anymore. I used to believe that's how it should be and I'd even judge people that would sleep around a lot...but ...
I had to realize that sex isn't just for relationships anymore...now a days...people just have it for fun... One of my best girl friends is always just looking for a hook up and has no desire to be in a relationship. She just wants to sleep with someone and then they leave.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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They killed Kenny, the bastards.
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Feb 4, 2016 18:29:16 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 18:31:49 GMT -5
Not telling someone that you are going to have sex with that your trans takes away their choice. To me it's in the same category as getting someone drunk so they will have sex with you. It's slimy. Do you mean you feel all trans people should volunteer the information? I don't really see it. Some people would freak out if they slept with people of different enthnicities. I don't get it, but it's a big honking deal to them. It's not like people need to say at each date "full disclosure, I'm actually 1/4 XYZ even though you can't visually tell." Occasionally people of all walks of life are really startling frank about their racial preferences for dating or marriage sometimes, and it weirds me out how adamant some are about it, no matter which ethnicity is saying so. It's a thing for them. Some would feel tainted if they slept with people not of their preference. Yet people don't need to give their entire genetic background as a matter of course. If it's a huge honking deal to me, I'll ask as I get to know someone, even if it's fairly rare, because it's a big deal to me. Only if I ask and they lie to me is it a betrayal. If I didn't care enough to ask, I'm not going to slash at someone. That's my stance on relationships. I suspect there are going to be a lot more people asking this question. I remember seeing something like this on a sitcom and thinking it was hilarious that someone would ask "have you always been a man/woman". For it to be a serious question you need to ask now is weird.
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Feb 4, 2016 18:32:19 GMT -5
Kolt! you are dismissing the fact that this is an important issue to many people for very valid reasons. Having sex is not an inherent right, going without sex doesn't kill people and wanting to have sex does not justify taking away people's choices. That's the last time I'm going to comment on it. The chances of it being relevant to me are pretty slim. And I said way back around page 2, I address people in whatever way they present themselves. I'm not too concerned about who is cis and who is trans in my daily transactions with people. No. But if a female wants to have sex with a transman should they just say no every time until they trust the girl? Do they not deserve to have a sex life like that of a cismale just because they're trans? That's really unfair. That literally means they can only have sex and be intimate with someone that they trust and love...and some transmen never end up trusting anyone. -- And there's so many things out there that people don't tell like...finance problems, cheating on the past, sex partners, former stds, being in jail... but people don't accuse them of taking away a choice of wanting to sleep with the person. "OH DANG you slept with 25 people! I wish I hadn't slept with you!" "Oh DANG! You don't want to have kids some day! I wish I hadn't slept with you!" It's like... a lot of things are important to people. But... if someone sleeps with someone and it's consensual then at that moment that's all that matters. They wanted to at the time and it was their CHOICE. It doesn't matter if later they find out that the person slept with 25 people, they're trans, they're bisexual, they've been with a girl before and they're a girl, they're in debt... this list could go on forever to where people would have to forever be telling every SINGLE thing in their lives to make sure the person was really getting what they wanted in a person.
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Feb 4, 2016 18:34:34 GMT -5
um? nothing there well there is but stuff I still need to reply to. Nothing new? Unless you're hinting to reply to my older pms... BUT YOU WERENT ONE OF THEM YO
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ken a.k.a OMK
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They killed Kenny, the bastards.
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Feb 4, 2016 18:36:04 GMT -5
I was in college late 60's when my generation was tagged as the free sex generation. OK I saw some, but I think the tag was about the pill freeing up women. i met my wife in college and we were both virgins. Lived together a while after graduation then married. Going strong after 45 years. Trust and honesty are important.
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copperboxes
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Post by copperboxes on Feb 4, 2016 18:41:36 GMT -5
To be fair, I never would have thought I had to ask if the guy I was dating ever had a vagina. I tend to go for te alpha male types so I kind of assume they were born with a penisI do ask if they are married. In our travels, we find things are often not as they appear. One of our roommates from a couple years ago was gay. He was huge, 6'3", built for football, had a football doormat, big alpha male type, deep voice, fierce personality. He could really rumble bark out words when he got pissed. He was not an alpha male in relationships with other men. He just grew up in small town Oklahoma, and blended in. A lot of women hit on him, really wanting relationships at the apartment complex, but he felt he couldn't volunteer his orientation because they weren't the secret keeping type, and his experiences said it was better to not let it become widely known. Makeup, surgery, hormones, we find it's not generally wise to assume "oh big, deep voice, he's obviously a straight alpha male." We get told a fair amount of personal stuff by people since we're mild types. For personal experience, DH got mistaken as gay in high school, the same way I was mistaken as a lesbian (different high schools) because of our hobbies and body types. We're both straight. We grew up in a very open area, so there were openly lesbian super girly girls, very tough gay guys, and the whole range between. People don't usually fall into neat little boxes like on TV unless they want to, in our experience. Just my observations. I figure it's like finances. There's often a lot going on in the background most people won't know just from looking. If something is seriously a major deal to someone, I figure best to take a minute and confirm. I do find a lot of arguments about why it would freak someone out to sleep with a transgender person pretty distasteful, sort of like people who say they would flip out if they slept with someone who was of a different ethnicity. Rubs me the wrong way, looking at history. That just my personal feeling though.
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quince
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Post by quince on Feb 4, 2016 18:49:07 GMT -5
Or... Oh, dang, you slept with 25 people and told me you only slept with 2! I would not have slept with you if you had told me the truth!
Or... Oh, dang, you slept with 25 people, and I told you that I didn't want to sleep with anyone who had had more than 5 partners! How could you just go ahead and have sex with me anyway, when you know I would not have if I had known!?
Both of those are kind of heavily on the side of questionable consent, don't you think?
I do think that if the question is asked directly, a true answer has to be given, or it IS non-consensual sex. If the question is not asked, I think it is not non-consensual, but can be sleazy anyway.
Herpes: If STD status is asked and answered with deception, vs not asked at all. People often don't ask. They just don't. Herpes is super, super common. There's a stigma, but not everyone cares. People SHOULD ask. If they do, and you lie and say No to get laid, that's making consent iffy. If no one asks,I don't think consent is iffy, it's just kind of gross that a person would avoid a topic that might risk your chances of getting laid (even if you don't think it should).
I do think there's some additional sympathy due to the position trans people are in when it comes to the risk disclosure puts them at, but while it requires more understanding, it does not negate the right of people to be able to make fully informed consent to sex acts. I do think that because of the risk trans people face, the onus of asking the right questions should probably be on the partners (which means I'm updating my list of questions to ask potential sexual partners, obviously.)
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Feb 4, 2016 19:02:43 GMT -5
The thing is it's not always asked. And to expect a trans person to risk this every time they engage in something is just a bit...
And I don't know a lot of people my age now a days just hook up and no questions asked...kind of on both of their faults. It risks not only a 'trans' thing but disease and so many other things. Really at the end of the day you can't put the blame on just one person. Maybe it's their fault for not saying but maybe it's your fault for not asking. You don't know what's in the persons head or what seems like a big issue to someone...so don't assume. Ask if it's important. Both sides. Sometimes a trans person may assume that a person really wouldn't care. Sometimes a person just assumes that a person doesn't have a disease (which you should never do) it all depends. But in no way do I believe it should be considered rape if one is trans and doesn't say. Because then a lot of things that could potentailly upset someone finding out about a person later could fall under rape. I know far too many men that sleep around sadly...cis men mostly and they've passed around herpes...but you don't see them being accused of rape either...it's just 'kids being kids' apparently.
But the point of those questions were more on a hook up bases. As I said I do believe it is deceitful if someone is asked and they lie or if someone KNOWS that this person wouldn't want to be with a trans person and hooks up with them anyways, I do find that wrong.
But it's a bit crazy to expect a trans person to have to check every time they start something with someone...and sometimes relationships and sex just happens with someone without even meaning for it to happen. Honestly though? I'm assuming most of the people here that are upset about the idea of sleeping with someone trans are all over thirty...
Or i'm just in a really liberal places. Because every time I meet someone new I'm a dork and ask if they'd be ok dating someone trans and not once have I ever asked a girl my age this that said she couldn't do it. I know a few girls my age not from around here that have but they're from really religious families and it's often been because of what their parents told them. Even when I was on tinder and put I was trans I still and girls press that like button. Girls that are straight as well and were in shock I was trans. But didn't care.
--
I personally could never have a hook up though. But I know guys that do like to have them and girls too. I'd get too attached. I mean I've been in love with the same girl for the past three years so... >.> And I have a hard time even having the idea of being with someone else because of this. I have dated other girls but some how I still come back to this girl.
So a lot of what I say isn't always in defense of myself but other trans men. But most trans men Do NOT not tell someone because they're afraid they won't get laid. And eventually some girls do want to sleep with their guys... even if he's trying to hold off. I know I've felt the pressure before and the girl started to feel as if I didn't find her attractive because I was holding off on sex.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Feb 4, 2016 19:27:42 GMT -5
Still waiting on my answer....
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Feb 4, 2016 19:29:29 GMT -5
OH GOSH IM SORRY
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Feb 4, 2016 19:40:16 GMT -5
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Feb 4, 2016 19:57:07 GMT -5
In my honest opinion yes i believe it makes them an asshole. After surgery for one theyre no different then a cismale. And one of the reason a transguy may not say so is because for some reason some people are assholes and say "i dont judge i just dont want to date a trans person" as if theyre different from a cismale which theyre not. Why? Because they have a preference? I refuse to date men with children. Does that make me an asshole? I don't think so. If others do, that's ok. I'm still not going to do it. What about guys that like fat girls? What about people that date significantly older or younger? People have preferences. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't make them wrong. Just like them disagreeing with you doesn't make you wrong.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Feb 4, 2016 19:57:24 GMT -5
So which one of those is you?
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Feb 4, 2016 19:59:11 GMT -5
So many many moons ago this is what happened among a group of college age guy friends.
There was a party. Lots of guys. Lots of girls were invited. Lots of drinking. They decided to play a game. They hung a curtain with a hole in the middle. The girls were on one side of the curtain and guys were on another side. A guy would come over, stick his penis through the hole and some girl would give him a BJ.
I have no idea how long that game was going for, since I wasn't there, but at some point the curtain fell and guys realized that they were giving a BJ by another guy. Some laughed it off. Some thought it didn't happen to them, only to the last guy. One guy got very very disturbed by it. He killed himself a few months later. May be it was related to this event, may be it wasn't
It's not a secret that our sexual attractions are all in our heads. Certain mental pictures can be more powerful than anything else.
So, even if a trans guy looks completely male, having a mental pic of him not looking so could be very hard to handle. That's why it's important to disclose that to your partner.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Feb 4, 2016 20:01:03 GMT -5
In my honest opinion yes i believe it makes them an asshole. After surgery for one theyre no different then a cismale. And one of the reason a transguy may not say so is because for some reason some people are assholes and say "i dont judge i just dont want to date a trans person" as if theyre different from a cismale which theyre not. Why? Because they have a preference? I refuse to date men with children. Does that make me an asshole? I don't think so. If others do, that's ok. I'm still not going to do it. What about guys that like fat girls? What about people that date significantly older or younger? People have preferences. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't make them wrong. Just like them disagreeing with you doesn't make you wrong. I haven't dated a black guy since my first boyfriend. I'm sure that makes me look like some sort of Uncle Tom traitor or something, but I can't change who I'm attracted to. Being black isn't a dealbreaker, but apparently I have a looks type that they don't fit. I like what I like and I shouldn't have to defend it.
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