andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Feb 4, 2016 16:10:30 GMT -5
A lie by omission is still a lie. Why not be completely up front. When talking about dating when a guy says "Tell me about you" they get facts about me. I'm from KC, born and raised. I have two kids and don't want more... You get the idea. Leaving something like that out is completely dishonest. That needs to be disclosed pretty early on. Way before sex is involved. Why? Not being funny, being serious. If you think they're male, and they know they are and have had all the work done, then what's the difference? Some people don't want to date someone who was born a different sex. Does that make them an asshole? Maybe, maybe not. But they need to be allowed to make an informed decision. I personally have never dated anyone trans. Does that mean that I won't? I don't know. I've never had the opportunity to tell you how I would react. Doesn't mean I don't want to know.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Feb 4, 2016 16:17:21 GMT -5
I don't think it makes that person an asshole. But if it is something important to you (general you), and this goes for everything from STDs to debt load to wanting/not wanting kids, then you should ask rather than assume the other person will be up-front about whatever the issue may be. Different things carry different levels of importance to people.
For instance, I may not think twice about a guy I date being trans, but would definitely want to know if he had a felony conviction -- whereas he may consider that an unimportant part of his past that it would never occur to him to disclose.
Or, to use a real example, DH was deeply in debt when we started dating the second time (first was in HS). I saw that he had a nice car and knew he made decent money, so figured he was doing well. Was that his fault for not saying "I'm bankrupt!" the first time I came over, or mine for assuming he wasn't?
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Feb 4, 2016 16:19:32 GMT -5
In my honest opinion yes i believe it makes them an asshole. After surgery for one theyre no different then a cismale.
And one of the reason a transguy may not say so is because for some reason some people are assholes and say "i dont judge i just dont want to date a trans person" as if theyre different from a cismale which theyre not.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Feb 4, 2016 16:20:04 GMT -5
Why? Not being funny, being serious. If you think they're male, and they know they are and have had all the work done, then what's the difference? Some people don't want to date someone who was born a different sex. Does that make them an asshole? Maybe, maybe not. But they need to be allowed to make an informed decision. I personally have never dated anyone trans. Does that mean that I won't? I don't know. I've never had the opportunity to tell you how I would react. Doesn't mean I don't want to know. I don't want to fight about it, I was just curious. I'm sure you would know once they've decided you can be trusted to be told. There's a lot of things people don't confess right up front in the beginning of a relationship. I would assume a large amount are very cautious about who they tell because of the amount of hate still felt toward them. I don't have any trans friends and am pretty sure I've never dated anyone that was. I'm sure it's something that would take a bit to get my head around and there'd be a whole pile of feelings but I'd hope the first wouldn't be anger or something worse. Who the hell knows, but I do think I'd understand them feeling like they had the right to keep quiet a while.
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Feb 4, 2016 16:21:11 GMT -5
Like ok to change my mind? Why wouldnt someone want to date a trans guy that had bottom and top surgery? And looks like a cismale? What makes them different then a cismale? What makes someone want to date a cismale that a transman doesnt have?
Other then giving you a baby
Im using the word you sorry i mean a person i dont personally think your an asshole but those thoughts that people have are judgemental when a transmale is no different then a cismale
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 4, 2016 16:25:17 GMT -5
If a man that has had bottom surgery, has had chest surgery, has been on t for years lives his life as appearing as a cismale it is his damn right. If he wants nobody to know because he hates the label and other then being able to have children he is male and not all males can have children. If he doesnt want to tell a girl hes trans thats his choice. He looks like a cismale and had a functioning penis...he is a male..trans or not. He was born with a vagina but never a woman just in a feminine body that isnt anybodies business. Its his choice. And saying youd be mad if he finally told you after dating him is rediculous. You should be privilaged and happy he came out. It was hard for him. He didnt have to. Him being born with a vagina doesnt make him less of a male. If you dated him clearly you had no clue so saying youll only date guys with "real dicks" is redic when theres a chance youd never had known if someone was trans. You dont even want kids so thatd legit be no issue. You just want a cismale because you are being judgemental of trans because in your head your still viewing them as less of a man which theyre NOT And that is your opinion. I would feel betrayed and would never speak to the person again. I want to be able to make the choice myself if I want to date someone and I want all of the cards on the table. I truly don't care how someone lives their life until it impacts me. I only want to date men that have always been men. I am just as entitled to my feelings as you are to yours.
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quince
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Post by quince on Feb 4, 2016 16:25:55 GMT -5
Define "all the work", CL. I would be pretty enraged if I was conned into being sexually active with someone with female genitalia, despite their declared and presented gender. I am all for genitals not being a big deal in gender, but genitals are a big fucking deal when it comes to who I am actually having some kind of sex with. Not every trans person has bottom surgery, not all bottom surgery is functional. I would be angry because I DO care about the genitals I am interacting with, I would be upset at the guilt I would feel at the anger I would express in rejecting the person, I would be upset at the waste of my time and emotional investment. If there were bottom surgery, I would be less angry, but the relationship might still end because of the glossing over of information that may have influenced my decisions. Trans people are not so thick on the ground that "Are you cis?" is a question that has a high likelihood of being useful- it has a higher likelihood of needing to be defined to the person you are asking. If I ever date again, I might ask anyhow, because it is probably the best way to be clear that the information is important to me. Or maybe I'll just ask "Do you have functioning at least 75% biologically based male anatomy?" 'cause that's sure to get the romance in gear, and covers people with surgical solutions to erectile dysfunction, to boot.
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Feb 4, 2016 16:26:20 GMT -5
If a man that has had bottom surgery, has had chest surgery, has been on t for years lives his life as appearing as a cismale it is his damn right. If he wants nobody to know because he hates the label and other then being able to have children he is male and not all males can have children. If he doesnt want to tell a girl hes trans thats his choice. He looks like a cismale and had a functioning penis...he is a male..trans or not. He was born with a vagina but never a woman just in a feminine body that isnt anybodies business. Its his choice. And saying youd be mad if he finally told you after dating him is rediculous. You should be privilaged and happy he came out. It was hard for him. He didnt have to. Him being born with a vagina doesnt make him less of a male. If you dated him clearly you had no clue so saying youll only date guys with "real dicks" is redic when theres a chance youd never had known if someone was trans. You dont even want kids so thatd legit be no issue. You just want a cismale because you are being judgemental of trans because in your head your still viewing them as less of a man which theyre NOT And that is your opinion. I would feel betrayed and would never speak to the person again. I want to be able to make the choice myself if I want to date someone and I want all of the cards on the table. I truly don't care how someone lives their life until it impacts me. I only want to date men that have always been men. I am just as entitled to my feelings as you are to yours.
They HAVE always been men! And why!? Why what makes them essentially better and different then a trans male!?
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Feb 4, 2016 16:28:03 GMT -5
Here is another way to think about it.
My daughter is the product of incest. Is it a lie by omission if she does not tell everyone she dates/has sex with this? It is an important medical fact that will matter when she's ready to have kids (there's a rare type of brain cancer that runs in the family she's got the double whammy for), but if she's not going to have bio-kids - if she wants to adopt or decides not to have kids, why does anyone who is not her doctor need to know? Is it truly a betrayal if she chooses to keep this information to herself?
I feel the same way about people who are trans and transitioned before I met them. This is part of their medical history, and it's truly none of my business - yes, even if I am dating them. I would hope that if we got to the point of talking about a long term future together, the person would feel comfortable enough to share their medical history with me, but I don't think they should feel obligated to tell me until that level of trust has been established.
Like it or not, not everyone someone has sex with is someone they truly trust or want a long term relationship with. As long as people are honest about birth control and STDs, their sexual partners are not actually entitled to any other part of their medical history.
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Feb 4, 2016 16:28:01 GMT -5
Lol a transmales dick last longer in bed. Its functionable. More functionable then a cismale who may need viagra.
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Feb 4, 2016 16:30:28 GMT -5
Here is another way to think about it. My daughter is the product of incest. Is it a lie by omission if she does not tell everyone she dates/has sex with this? It is an important medical fact that will matter when she's ready to have kids (there's a rare type of brain cancer that runs in the family she's got the double whammy for), but if she's not going to have bio-kids - if she wants to adopt or decides not to have kids, why does anyone who is not her doctor need to know? Is it truly a betrayal if she chooses to keep this information to herself?
I feel the same way about people who are trans and transitioned before I met them. This is part of their medical history, and it's truly none of my business - yes, even if I am dating them. I would hope that if we got to the point of talking about a long term future together, the person would feel comfortable enough to share their medical history with me, but I don't think they should feel obligated to tell me until that level of trust has been established.
Like it or not, not everyone someone has sex with is someone they truly trust or want a long term relationship with. As long as people are honest about birth control and STDs, their sexual partners are not actually entitled to any other part of their medical history.Amen!
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Feb 4, 2016 16:31:59 GMT -5
OK, let's try to keep a lid on the dick talk please, or take it to PM... we need to keep things PG-13 as best we can, and this is a challenging topic.
(I apologize for posting as a poster and a mod in the same thread, we really try not to do that.)
Mid/mod
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Feb 4, 2016 16:33:45 GMT -5
Define "all the work", CL. I would be pretty enraged if I was conned into being sexually active with someone with female genitalia, despite their declared and presented gender. I am all for genitals not being a big deal in gender, but genitals are a big fucking deal when it comes to who I am actually having some kind of sex with. Not every trans person has bottom surgery, not all bottom surgery is functional. I would be angry because I DO care about the genitals I am interacting with, I would be upset at the guilt I would feel at the anger I would express in rejecting the person, I would be upset at the waste of my time and emotional investment. If there were bottom surgery, I would be less angry, but the relationship might still end because of the glossing over of information that may have influenced my decisions. Trans people are not so thick on the ground that "Are you cis?" is a question that has a high likelihood of being useful- it has a higher likelihood of needing to be defined to the person you are asking. If I ever date again, I might ask anyhow, because it is probably the best way to be clear that the information is important to me. Or maybe I'll just ask "Do you have functioning at least 75% biologically based male anatomy?" 'cause that's sure to get the romance in gear, and covers people with surgical solutions to erectile dysfunction, to boot. Yes, by "all the work" I meant top and bottom surgery. Visually no different from other males. I'd have to take any of this on a case by case basis for sure. I'm sure I'd be all kinds of ticked off to find that I didn't have all the info if we were talking about someone who had only done the top surgery. Mostly because I'd feel like they were amusing themselves by letting me discover it on my own. Waiting to see a reaction and get a laugh. And then, like you, I'd probably feel guilty about it.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Feb 4, 2016 16:34:59 GMT -5
quince - Perhaps the best question would be, when talking about having sex with someone new - Am I going to be surprised by your genitalia?
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Feb 4, 2016 16:37:42 GMT -5
quince - Perhaps the best question would be, when talking about having sex with someone new - Am I going to be surprised by your genitalia? And they wouldnt if the man had surgery. Im just trying to understand why someone wouldnt want to date a transman that for all intenses purpose looks exactly like a cismale private parts including? What makes a cismale better or different? Unless it just disgusts you and in that case which can be the only case im rolling my eyes. I DO understand if the man had not had bottom surgery though. I do get that
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 4, 2016 16:41:26 GMT -5
Furthermore...tricking you into dating them! Seriously! He is all male from his chest to his dick to his heart and to his mind. Unless you want kids thatd be the only issue but theres ways to have kids without needing his sperm furthermore males born with a dick cant always have kids either Also being straight and liking a trans person doesnt make you a lesbian it still makes you straight I'm about as open minded as they come and I completely disagree. I am all about honesty in a relationship. I have no problem with straight, gay, and anywhere in between. Trans doesn't bother me, nor does the color of people's skin. I make friends with anyone. But if I'm in a relationship with someone who's not completely honest about everything, I don't have a relationship with that person. What I have no tolerance for is dishonesty. SO MUCH THIS!!!
I am not as open when it comes to my partners. I am not open to dating a trans, to dating a female or to dating a man that used to be a female. But that is my right to feel the way I do. I am as respectful as I can be to others choices but the minute they impact my life I would hit the roof.
That is no different than saying that if someone has an open marriage and their spouse is cool with them dating, then I have no right to know...umm, yes I do! I don't believe in cheating and just because that person's definition of cheating is different than mine, doesn't make it ok to hide the fact that you have a spouse.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 4, 2016 16:44:50 GMT -5
A lie by omission is still a lie. Why not be completely up front. When talking about dating when a guy says "Tell me about you" they get facts about me. I'm from KC, born and raised. I have two kids and don't want more... You get the idea. Leaving something like that out is completely dishonest. That needs to be disclosed pretty early on. Way before sex is involved. Why? Not being funny, being serious. If you think they're male, and they know they are and have had all the work done, then what's the difference? Because I don't think they are male and it would make me extremely uncomfortable to date someone and then find out that they used to be a female. I am pretty sure you all know that I'm much more conservative than a lot of you. I try to be respectful but at the same time, I would never willingly be romantically involved with someone who wasn't born a man...and by that, I mean with the man parts and the DNA.
To take away my right to date what I consider a male is very, very deceitful and wrong.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 4, 2016 16:46:26 GMT -5
And that is your opinion. I would feel betrayed and would never speak to the person again. I want to be able to make the choice myself if I want to date someone and I want all of the cards on the table. I truly don't care how someone lives their life until it impacts me. I only want to date men that have always been men. I am just as entitled to my feelings as you are to yours.
They HAVE always been men! And why!? Why what makes them essentially better and different then a trans male!? Because I'm attracted to men that were born with male parts and male DNA. To me, there is a huge difference.
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quince
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Post by quince on Feb 4, 2016 16:46:36 GMT -5
Prostates, maybe, although that's kind of a niche interest for het/cis relationships.
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Feb 4, 2016 16:48:11 GMT -5
I'm about as open minded as they come and I completely disagree. I am all about honesty in a relationship. I have no problem with straight, gay, and anywhere in between. Trans doesn't bother me, nor does the color of people's skin. I make friends with anyone. But if I'm in a relationship with someone who's not completely honest about everything, I don't have a relationship with that person. What I have no tolerance for is dishonesty. SO MUCH THIS!!!
I am not as open when it comes to my partners. I am not open to dating a trans, to dating a female or to dating a man that used to be a female. But that is my right to feel the way I do. I am as respectful as I can be to others choices but the minute they impact my life I would hit the roof.
That is no different than saying that if someone has an open marriage and their spouse is cool with them dating, then I have no right to know...umm, yes I do! I don't believe in cheating and just because that person's definition of cheating is different than mine, doesn't make it ok to hide the fact that you have a spouse.
Im still asking you why? What makes a trans male with all the parts that work like a mans...that thinks and looks like a man...why is that an issue to you?
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Feb 4, 2016 16:48:35 GMT -5
What about guys who are genetically male but on the very very low end of the bell curve when it comes to endowment? I am guessing most women would be disappointed by that or even find it a deal-breaker... but is it actually dishonest not to bring it up before the clothes come off?
Or is it really just about not having the XY chromosomes?
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Feb 4, 2016 16:49:47 GMT -5
Um? Attracted to a born male?? -_- ii cant even right now...you cant possibly know what dna is and if you could then youd always know a transmale was trans
This is loony >)
Like you cant see the x and y chromosome
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 4, 2016 16:50:07 GMT -5
SO MUCH THIS!!!
I am not as open when it comes to my partners. I am not open to dating a trans, to dating a female or to dating a man that used to be a female. But that is my right to feel the way I do. I am as respectful as I can be to others choices but the minute they impact my life I would hit the roof.
That is no different than saying that if someone has an open marriage and their spouse is cool with them dating, then I have no right to know...umm, yes I do! I don't believe in cheating and just because that person's definition of cheating is different than mine, doesn't make it ok to hide the fact that you have a spouse.
Im still asking you why? What makes a trans male with all the parts that work like a mans...that thinks and looks like a man...why is that an issue to you? We all are attracted to different things. I would not be attracted to a person that was born with female parts. I just wouldn't be. There would be no point hiding that from me because the minute I found out the relationship would be over. Why not just be honest upfront?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 4, 2016 16:51:54 GMT -5
Um? Attracted to a born male?? -_- ii cant even right now...you cant possibly know what dna is and if you could then youd always know a transmale was trans This is loony >) LOL! It's ok if you think it's loony...I know what I'm attracted to and what would turn me off completely. I would be extremely unhappy to find out that I dated someone that was born a female. I dont' care if you understand or not, but I am not nor will I ever be attracted to a woman...or a person that was born with female parts. And to take that decision away from me is just wrong.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 4, 2016 16:53:29 GMT -5
What about guys who are genetically male but on the very very low end of the bell curve when it comes to endowment? I am guessing most women would be disappointed by that or even find it a deal-breaker... but is it actually dishonest not to bring it up before the clothes come off? Or is it really just about not having the XY chromosomes? For me it is totally about the XY chromosome. Ive come a long way in being more accepting of people htat are different of me...as long as it doesn't impact me personally. I kiss someone that was born with a vagina because the person didn't tell me and I would freak the fuck out...seriously, freak the fuck out!
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Feb 4, 2016 16:53:30 GMT -5
Being attracted to a transman does not make a person a lesbian! They are still straight!
You still have a long way to go with acceptance. Im appauled.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 4, 2016 16:54:21 GMT -5
Edited to remove deleted quote. - Mid/mod And that is your opinion...we are all entitled to our own opinion...funny though, I have to be accepting of you and your lifestyle choices but you get to call me disgusting...funny how that works
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Feb 4, 2016 16:56:07 GMT -5
Why? Not being funny, being serious. If you think they're male, and they know they are and have had all the work done, then what's the difference? Because I don't think they are male and it would make me extremely uncomfortable to date someone and then find out that they used to be a female. I am pretty sure you all know that I'm much more conservative than a lot of you. I try to be respectful but at the same time, I would never willingly be romantically involved with someone who wasn't born a man...and by that, I mean with the man parts and the DNA.
To take away my right to date what I consider a male is very, very deceitful and wrong.
I do know all that, and posted after andi on purpose even if I didn't quote her. I'm just trying to wrap my head around other people's thought processes too.
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Feb 4, 2016 16:56:14 GMT -5
I dont find you disgusting. I find your view disgusting because if someone really loved someone there male part no matter if it was always there or not wouldnt matter.
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Feb 4, 2016 16:57:38 GMT -5
I know very welll you dont accept me as a man. You made that very clear actually. You made it very clear that to you a man is only a man if he was born with the correct part. You made it clear that to you i lack and am less then a male
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