shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jan 19, 2016 18:59:30 GMT -5
We have a friend, whom we have known as a male for the last 20 years, who recently started telling friends that he/she is transgender and that she is starting to transition. This is a little complicated right now not only because of two decades of the male pronoun and name and switching to a female pronoun and name, but also because she is not widely "out". I am not even certain all of our friend group knows just yet. (We learned on New Years Eve.) In addition, a cousin of hir wife is staying at my house for the month, and neither of them (the transitioning friend and the wife) are ready for the wife's family to know just yet. This means that when they are over at our house, she still presents as a he.
Overall, once the cousin leaves in a couple of weeks, I think I know how to support our friend. Making the pronoun changes will be difficult, but we will actively work on it.
On some level, right now I am more concerned about how I support the wife. As far as I know, she has always identified as straight. She married a man who at the time did not identify as transgender or anything other than a hetero, cis male. So no matter how much she loves HIM, I have got to think it is going to be just as big a transition for the wife to love HER, as it is for our friend to go from a him to a her.
For now, they both say they are good, but the transitioning friend made a comment this weekend about "if they are still together after the transition is complete". No one of our friends will blame her (and we will all keep her as a friend) if this ends the marriage. It is kind of a big thing for the person you are married to to switch genders.
So what do I do to support her? I seem to remember that one of our posters (maybe The Captain, but maybe someone else, my memory is not great) is the spouse of someone who transitioned, so while I am open to ideas from all of you, I am also hoping for a voice of experience.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 19, 2016 19:01:25 GMT -5
raeoflyte She's not on as much as she used to be.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jan 19, 2016 19:02:55 GMT -5
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jan 19, 2016 19:36:12 GMT -5
Good lord, I don't know how a spiuse could accept that. Granted, Im old fashioned and would have a hard time accepting anyone transitioning let alone my spouse. I am pretty sure I would have to divorce if he cut off his penis...the penis is the only saving grace of a man!lol
For the friend, I would just be there and try not to interject my opinion. I honestly have no idea what I would even say to the wife
You are a good friend. Best of luck to you
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debthaven
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Post by debthaven on Jan 19, 2016 19:52:31 GMT -5
I don't have any specific advice for you but my best childhood friend made an award-winning documentary on the subject of transitioning. It was on PBS and it is now being used for teaching in hospitals and universities. It doesn't specifically address the issue of spouses, but you might like to see it. It's called "A Self-Made Man". It's actually about a woman who transitioned and became a youth advocate. He runs support groups for transitioning kids / their parents / their siblings. So again, it doesn't address the issues of spouses directly, but I think it's definitely worth watching.
This may seem unrelated, but please hear me out Shan. The husband of my of my closest friends committed suicide right before Christmas.
I think the best thing you can do for the wife is just to be there for her, both physically and emotionally. It may not be the same for your friend because she is still living with her transitioning spouse, but I'm guessing he probably has evening meetings or support groups. When you're going through hell, the evenings are VERY long, and there are seven of them every week.
It's still early days so I am still going to see her 4 times a week (it was every day before but now my semester has started up. Soon my marking will start up and I won't manage 4 times a week, but I hope to do 3.) I find the regularity important, and above all, I've noticed that at 8 pm (remember we're in France so people eat dinner late) EVERYBODY gets up and goes home. When I saw that I started a rota to make sure a close friend is with her at least 2 evenings a week. I would have liked it to be more often but most people prefer to go during the day, as do I, and few are willing to give up an evening.
Also when you're stunned / shocked / in depression (I don't know how your friend is reacting but I'm guessing not great) even everyday tasks can seem overwhelming. So I always text her the night before I go over to ask her if she needs anything. Sometimes she says no, other times she says yes. When I see her I try to bring a meal. I don't do that every time, but I do it about half the time. She likes my soups and she eats very little these days (she's lost 25 lbs in a month), so my family has been eating a lot of soups lately LOL.
The other thing I'm thinking is, your should help her think about potential separation issues, i.e. financial issues, if they were to divorce. And maybe, if they have kids to take them once in a while so they can have an evening alone.
Good luck to all of you. I am just shattered, both by my friend's death, because he was my friend too (of nearly 30 years) and by the time / emotional cost of the time I am spending with my friend. But that's what friends are for. She has always been there for me, and now I am there for her.
You are a good, good friend.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2016 20:26:05 GMT -5
I'd also ask her what she wants the public version of the story to be. Since you're a close friend, people may ask you because they're embarrassed about asking her anything. Just being able to show others your support of the two of them and to quash rumors will be a big help.
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gregintenn
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Post by gregintenn on Jan 19, 2016 20:36:11 GMT -5
Why would you feel the need to support such lunacy?
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Jan 19, 2016 20:38:52 GMT -5
Why would you feel the need to support such lunacy? Um, because she's not a judgmental a$$hole and has empathy for her friends?
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gregintenn
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Post by gregintenn on Jan 19, 2016 20:43:14 GMT -5
Why would you feel the need to support such lunacy? Um, because she's not a judgmental a$$hole and has empathy for her friends? Dude has a penis and a wife. HE'S NOT A WOMAN!!!!!
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Jan 19, 2016 20:44:38 GMT -5
Um, because she's not a judgmental a$$hole and has empathy for her friends? Dude has a penis and a wife. HE'S NOT A WOMAN!!!!! Yeah . . . so? What does that have to do with human connection, friendship, empathy and caring?
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gregintenn
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Post by gregintenn on Jan 19, 2016 20:47:00 GMT -5
Dude has a penis and a wife. HE'S NOT A WOMAN!!!!! Yeah . . . so? What does that have to do with human connection, friendship, empathy and caring? Friendship, empathy, and caring would explain to him he's a guy.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Jan 19, 2016 20:49:59 GMT -5
Yeah . . . so? What does that have to do with human connection, friendship, empathy and caring? Friendship, empathy, and caring would explain to him he's a guy. If you go back and employ reading comprehension skills, you will clearly see that the OP is asking about how to support THE WIFE. Not the transitioning person (although s/he gets mention in there also - the primary concern right now is for the wife).
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gregintenn
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Post by gregintenn on Jan 19, 2016 20:51:26 GMT -5
Friendship, empathy, and caring would explain to him he's a guy. If you go back and employ reading comprehension skills, you will clearly see that the OP is asking about how to support THE WIFE. Not the transitioning person (although s/he gets mention in the also - the primary concern right now is for the wife). If the wife is tolerating this, it'll be hard to support her.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2016 20:51:58 GMT -5
So, if we wanted to be a good friend to you greg we'd explain to you what you are...
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Jan 19, 2016 20:52:17 GMT -5
Yeah . . . so? What does that have to do with human connection, friendship, empathy and caring? Friendship, empathy, and caring would explain to him he's a guy. In your eyes, maybe. In his, clearly not. Only s/he gets a say in how s/he feels in her own skin. Not you, not me, not any kind of social or cultural construct that is placed upon her.
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quince
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Post by quince on Jan 19, 2016 20:52:45 GMT -5
Transitioning doesn't always involve genital reconfiguration.
I was supportive of my brother when he dipped his toe into being a Mormon. People support all kinds of "lunacy" in people they love. To be fair, I would probably be a whole hellofalot less supportive if my spouse dabbled in religiosity, but I AM a low-empathy, judgmental asshole.
Inexperienced me says be an available ear, take your cues from them, ask what they need from you, and when in doubt and without other requests or guidance, treat them the same as always (other than pronouns)- they are still the same friends, despite whatever they may be going through.
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gregintenn
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Post by gregintenn on Jan 19, 2016 20:54:31 GMT -5
So, if we wanted to be a good friend to you greg we'd explain to you want you are... Just looked to confirm......I'm a guy!
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Jan 19, 2016 20:55:28 GMT -5
If you go back and employ reading comprehension skills, you will clearly see that the OP is asking about how to support THE WIFE. Not the transitioning person (although s/he gets mention in the also - the primary concern right now is for the wife). If the wife is tolerating this, it'll be hard to support her. You mean, it would be hard for YOU to support her. Please don't lay your feelings about this on others as somehow right or superior.
There are many ways to see the world.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Jan 19, 2016 20:56:56 GMT -5
I suspect the very fact that you want to be supportive and are nonjudgmental will be the support the wife needs. I have a childhood friend who transitioned several years ago from male to female and she lost a lot of friends during her transition. There were many people who said they would be supportive but simply weren't in the long-term. Transitioning is a long difficult process, my friend is still getting surgeries.
i feel for this couple because people can be judgmental and cruel over a situation that isn't anyone's fault.
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gregintenn
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Post by gregintenn on Jan 19, 2016 20:57:02 GMT -5
If the wife is tolerating this, it'll be hard to support her. You mean, it would be hard for YOU to support her. Please don't lay your feelings about this on others as somehow right or superior.
There are many ways to see the world.
I'd find it difficult, honestly. Would you not feel uncomfortable in that situation?
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Jan 19, 2016 21:00:21 GMT -5
You mean, it would be hard for YOU to support her. Please don't lay your feelings about this on others as somehow right or superior.
There are many ways to see the world.
I'd find it difficult, honestly. Would you not feel uncomfortable in that situation? It's TOTALLY OKAY to find it difficult! It's just not okay to pass judgment on someone else going through something huge and life-changing about which you know very little or nothing.
And FWIW, if I were in that situation (my DH up and decided to transition), I would be devastated. And I would need the uber-support of everyone I could get. OP recognizes this in her friends and wants to help. Kudos to her.
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quince
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Post by quince on Jan 19, 2016 21:01:29 GMT -5
I think I'd also pay attention and make sure she knows that she won't be negatively judged by her friends if she doesn't stay in the marriage after her spouse's transition. That you understand that she can still love the person she married, regardless of the gender they identify as, but not be OK with the dynamic of being a same-sex marriage. I can imagine after such a long relationship, there could be guilt for NOT staying through a transition. The voices in peoples heads are relentless, I tell you, relentless! (Or maybe it is just the voices in my head?)
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Jan 19, 2016 21:13:46 GMT -5
Greg, I know this is probably impossible for you to comprehend, but just because a person is born one gender or another doesn't mean they actually identify as that gender. It's like being gay/lesbian. You can't help who you are attracted to. And all the homophobia etc., in the world isn't going to change that. Maybe you should try to be a little more tolerant? It's not hurting you, or affecting you in any way. It doesn't change the person that they are on the inside, and shouldn't that be the most important thing?
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gregintenn
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Post by gregintenn on Jan 19, 2016 21:20:23 GMT -5
Greg, I know this is probably impossible for you to comprehend, but just because a person is born one gender or another doesn't mean they actually identify as that gender. It's like being gay/lesbian. You can't help who you are attracted to. And all the homophobia etc., in the world isn't going to change that. Maybe you should try to be a little more tolerant? It's not hurting you, or affecting you in any way. It doesn't change the person that they are on the inside, and shouldn't that be the most important thing? You guessed right. Impossible for me to comprehend. You have a penis, you are male. I'm not sure what I'm missing here, but carry on.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jan 19, 2016 21:28:59 GMT -5
Unless you are attracted to little kids. Then you are a freak
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gregintenn
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Post by gregintenn on Jan 19, 2016 21:31:45 GMT -5
Unless you are attracted to little kids. Then you are a freak
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2016 21:34:27 GMT -5
Just simply being there and listening is a great start. Maybe you can take her for a girls night out?
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jan 19, 2016 21:49:26 GMT -5
I think I'd also pay attention and make sure she knows that she won't be negatively judged by her friends if she doesn't stay in the marriage after her spouse's transition. That you understand that she can still love the person she married, regardless of the gender they identify as, but not be OK with the dynamic of being a same-sex marriage. I can imagine after such a long relationship, there could be guilt for NOT staying through a transition. The voices in peoples heads are relentless, I tell you, relentless! (Or maybe it is just the voices in my head?) Yes!!!! IMO it is a LOT to ask for someone to stay in a relationship where the other person switched gender, and that person shouldn't be made to feel bad that they couldn't or wouldn't accept that.
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Jan 19, 2016 21:56:00 GMT -5
Greg, I know this is probably impossible for you to comprehend, but just because a person is born one gender or another doesn't mean they actually identify as that gender. It's like being gay/lesbian. You can't help who you are attracted to. And all the homophobia etc., in the world isn't going to change that. Maybe you should try to be a little more tolerant? It's not hurting you, or affecting you in any way. It doesn't change the person that they are on the inside, and shouldn't that be the most important thing? You guessed right. Impossible for me to comprehend. You have a penis, you are male. I'm not sure what I'm missing here, but carry on. Yes, that is true for you, because you identify as male and are attracted to women /heterosexual. That is not true for everyone, however. And to call someone who feels they are trapped in the wrong physical body a freak, or make no effort to see their perspective is wrong. Not saying you have said those things..just making a general statement. Just as it takes more than just biology to make a mom or dad, it takes more than a penis or vagina to truly be one gender or another.
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gregintenn
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Post by gregintenn on Jan 19, 2016 21:59:53 GMT -5
You guessed right. Impossible for me to comprehend. You have a penis, you are male. I'm not sure what I'm missing here, but carry on. Yes, that is true for you, because you identify as male and are attracted to women /heterosexual. That is not true for everyone, however. And to call someone who feels they are trapped in the wrong physical body a freak, or make no effort to see their perspective is wrong. Not saying you have said those things..just making a general statement. Just as it takes more than just biology to make a mom or dad, it takes more than a penis or vagina to truly be one gender or another. Actually, scientifically, it does not. Also, you are correct. I don't believe I called anyone anything other than calling the friend's husband a guy.
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