Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2015 16:36:21 GMT -5
The country was made great by ambitious people moving here for a better life. I have a lot of respect for people willing to leave home and move to a new country in order to better their life and the lives of their family. The illegal ones would come legally if that were more of an option. Immigration is one of the things that made us great and we are losing that greatness, lately.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Aug 18, 2015 16:41:10 GMT -5
After all, who needs rules? Just go ahead and shove your way to the front of line and eff anyone who actually believes in following the law of the land.
However, that does seem to be a bit of a recurring theme...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2015 16:43:21 GMT -5
I know a lot of people don't like the illegals but I do not understand why. Have they done something to you? If it is a welfare thing, I do not think that is the case, but if it is then maybe refigure welfare. I also do not think it is a crime thing. All types are criminals and all types are good people. I think statistics bear this out.
If it is a worry about them changing the country, I worry about that too. The solution is to hold strong to the constitution. We are not going to do that with or without them. We lose our freedoms with or without them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2015 16:45:27 GMT -5
After all, who needs rules? Just go ahead and shove your way to the front of line and eff anyone who actually believes in following the law of the land.
However, that does seem to be a bit of a recurring theme... Get rid of the rules and they will not be breaking them. The rules prevent lots of immigration. It is a bullshit argument, in my opinion, to say it is about them breaking rules. We have the rules because we don't want them. I say we should want them and lessen the rules.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Aug 18, 2015 16:47:17 GMT -5
I think some of the rules are a little over the top, but I wouldn't get rid of all of them together.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2015 16:49:12 GMT -5
I think some of the rules are a little over the top, but I wouldn't get rid of all of them together. Would you have a lot more legal immigration? Such that anyone who really wants to come can, provided they are not criminals? I think that is where it should be.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Aug 18, 2015 16:53:44 GMT -5
I think some of the rules are a little over the top, but I wouldn't get rid of all of them together. Would you have a lot more legal immigration? Such that anyone who really wants to come can, provided they are not criminals? I think that is where it should be. Yes. Maybe. But I think I would also put a few more restrictions. Don't know what exactly right off, but I'm sure the peanut gallery will chime in soon.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Aug 18, 2015 16:55:55 GMT -5
They are "illegal". AKA breaking the law. And, we have a crap economy so why do we want to depress the wages of Americans?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2015 17:00:10 GMT -5
They are "illegal". AKA breaking the law. And, we have a crap economy so why do we want to depress the wages of Americans? I think it is a proven fact that immigration raises the living standards of the rest of us. To be willing to leave your home country behind takes courage and initiative. Those are some things we need more of in America.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Aug 18, 2015 17:13:43 GMT -5
If you say so.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Aug 18, 2015 17:16:16 GMT -5
They are "illegal". AKA breaking the law. And, we have a crap economy so why do we want to depress the wages of Americans? I think it is a proven fact that immigration raises the living standards of the rest of us. To be willing to leave your home country behind takes courage and initiative. Those are some things we need more of in America. Only if Jose is welling to do YOUR JOB that you have for five dollars an hour less than you receive. Then our standard of living is better due to cheaper costs. Not so good for you, though. Let's start with say, vaccinations. How many illegals are actually vaccinated or up to date with their shots? No medical issues there, are there?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 18, 2015 17:18:49 GMT -5
I'm sick of press two for English. It offends me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2015 17:19:56 GMT -5
According to a 2010 survey of the economic literature on the subject, the Brookings Institute concluded that, “The most recent academic research suggests that, on average, immigrants raise the overall standard of living of American workers by boosting wages and lowering prices.”
link
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Aug 18, 2015 17:21:23 GMT -5
According to a 2010 survey of the economic literature on the subject, the Brookings Institute concluded that, “The most recent academic research suggests that, on average, immigrants raise the overall standard of living of American workers by boosting wages and lowering prices.”
link
Brookings Institute? Isn't that a right wing organization?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 18, 2015 17:22:19 GMT -5
Bullshit.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2015 17:23:06 GMT -5
Not letting immigrants come here because of our welfare system is one more reason we need to fundamentally rethink our welfare system.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 18, 2015 17:25:19 GMT -5
The country was made great by ambitious people moving here for a better life. I have a lot of respect for people willing to leave home and move to a new country in order to better their life and the lives of their family. The illegal ones would come legally if that were more of an option. Immigration is one of the things that made us great and we are losing that greatness, lately. Before the 60's you might have had a point. We get other nations refuse now and this country will soon look like the ones they came from.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2015 17:26:15 GMT -5
To answer part of sum dum's reply:
“Contrary to popular stereotypes, welfare states focus on the old, not the poor. Social Security and Medicare dwarf means-tested programs. Since immigrants tend to be young, they often end up supporting elderly natives rather than ‘milking the system.’ Illegal immigrants who pay taxes on fake Social Security numbers are pure profit for the Treasury. In 2005, Social Security’s chief actuary estimated that without all the taxes paid on invalid Social Security numbers, ‘the system’s long-term funding hole over 75 years would be 10 percent deeper.'”
from the same link above, quote from a George Mason economist.
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Aug 18, 2015 17:27:10 GMT -5
You have a poin there hickle but so does shooby! The system in place could be tuned up and made more efficient as far as legal immigration goes. I for one am one of the "law breakers" as shooby says but I came here for a reason and with a purpose. The purpose being I'm here to stay and do something with my life! The legal process is lengthy beyond reason: background checks and checks and medical examinations. This are after you apply at the embassy and wait on no end for an answer. The applications and even the interviews are theatrics. Anybody can lie and if you do it with conviction, you are in. Standards for levels of education are set so just those that have a certain level- college graduates preferably- have the upper hand. That is good somehow but I believe we churn out plenty of ignorance from our own colleges, why make it a requirement from others? An easier approach and selection of future "American citizens" would be a sponsorship type program where an American citizen sponsors an outsider and guarantees more or less for his/her character. A citizen should be allowed to do that say 2-3 times in a lifetime but only repeat if there is no failure. The sponsorship would refer to "no government support for the first 5 years, employement if possible NOT for the sponsor, at least a basic in English communication" And put limits "per nation/country" every year depending on overall population and living in U.S. Of said nationality citizens. That way you manage to turn the country into a more varied pot More later! I gotta go meet the "problem dude!"
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 18, 2015 17:28:33 GMT -5
Welfare is a huge evil to begin with but the absolute dregs coming in and committing crimes and clogging up our schools and hospitals. Draining resources from our citizens. ESOl is a curse and a plague on our schools
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Aug 18, 2015 17:31:17 GMT -5
VB, when I came here I had vaccines for illnesses that are considered extinct like small pox and such. In most countries, vaccination is mandatory or at least in communism was. I manage to dodge it until I got drafted and then they filled my ass with everything under the sun!
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Aug 18, 2015 17:35:47 GMT -5
VB, when I came here I had vaccines for illnesses that are considered extinct like small pox and such. In most countries, vaccination is mandatory or at least in communism was. I manage to dodge it until I got drafted and then they filled my ass with everything under the sun! I think you are from Europe, correct? I would expect you to have the proper shots. Mexico and central America are not especially proficient vaccinating the peasants. And my comment should have qualified the fact, I am talking about the children. If they are illegal, I am sure they are not up to date on their shots, and I sincerely doubt mom and dad brought their children's medical records with them across the border.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2015 17:36:58 GMT -5
VB, when I came here I had vaccines for illnesses that are considered extinct like small pox and such. In most countries, vaccination is mandatory or at least in communism was. I manage to dodge it until I got drafted and then they filled my ass with everything under the sun! I think you are from Europe, correct? I would expect you to have the proper shots. Mexico and central America are not especially proficient vaccinating the peasants. And my comment should have qualified the fact, I am talking about the children. If they are illegal, I am sure they are not up to date on their shots, and I sincerely doubt mom and dad brought their children's medical records with them across the border. Don't kids have to have proof of vaccines to get into school?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 18, 2015 17:37:10 GMT -5
I'm curious as to why you defend illegals and drunk drivers. Like they've got some redeeming qualities.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 18, 2015 17:39:05 GMT -5
I think you are from Europe, correct? I would expect you to have the proper shots. Mexico and central America are not especially proficient vaccinating the peasants. And my comment should have qualified the fact, I am talking about the children. If they are illegal, I am sure they are not up to date on their shots, and I sincerely doubt mom and dad brought their children's medical records with them across the border. Don't kids have to have proof of vaccines to get into school? No and in the last few years, they don't have to prove who they even are with birth certificates. I had to jump through hoops to get DS enrolled in public school but be illegal? Welcome to our school system.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Aug 18, 2015 17:42:15 GMT -5
I think you are from Europe, correct? I would expect you to have the proper shots. Mexico and central America are not especially proficient vaccinating the peasants. And my comment should have qualified the fact, I am talking about the children. If they are illegal, I am sure they are not up to date on their shots, and I sincerely doubt mom and dad brought their children's medical records with them across the border. Don't kids have to have proof of vaccines to get into school? why do you think we are having outbreaks ofdiseases in the U.S.A. that have been removed from common occurrences?
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Aug 18, 2015 18:16:31 GMT -5
I'm curious as to why you defend illegals and drunk drivers. Like they've got some redeeming qualities. Redeeming qualities- care to explain? I'm a bit thick today
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 18, 2015 18:20:03 GMT -5
I'm not thinking there are any so I was asking the OP of what value do drunk drivers and illegals have that offset their crimes?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 18, 2015 18:21:10 GMT -5
I think you are from Europe, correct? I would expect you to have the proper shots. Mexico and central America are not especially proficient vaccinating the peasants. And my comment should have qualified the fact, I am talking about the children. If they are illegal, I am sure they are not up to date on their shots, and I sincerely doubt mom and dad brought their children's medical records with them across the border. Don't kids have to have proof of vaccines to get into school? they do in CA, if the bill stands up.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2015 18:34:24 GMT -5
Oh, I totally forgot my other issue with letting the illegals stay, which is code for amnesty. We've been down that road in the past. It encourages more people to come in illegally. It sets the precedent that they can break the law to get here, break the law to stay here, work under stolen identities, and if they just hang in long enough they'll get rewarded for it. Every time we do it, we encourage more people to completely ignore immigration laws, and the rule of law in general, because we as a society will reward their bad behavior if they just wait a little while. Same reason I wasn't that thrilled with the Dream Act. We want to discourage illegal immigration, not encourage it. In order to do that we have to stop rewarding illegals with giveaways and goodies. It wouldn't be code for amnesty if we just called it amnesty. And we could stop encouraging people to come here illegally by allowing them to come here legally.
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