Apology After More Than a Decade of Silence

[Green Eyed Lady]

From someone who has actually been there and been down the long road of recovery, let me just say this. I think we get stuck on the term "forgiveness". It does not mean absolution from guilt (at least IMO). It does not mean forgetting. It means getting past it and going on.   What it especially means to me is not letting that person steal one more second of my life. 

And they do steal from you well after the fact.  They steal the moments you feel anger instead of happiness.  They steal your health when, as Dark said, your blood pressure rises just thinking about them.  They steal from your future relationships.  Forgiveness to me is the decision to not allow one more second of my life to be stolen by someone who isn't worth one more second of my life.  It's easier said than done and to me, Dark's example is even more horrifying.  I think I'd rather be kicked in the teeth than have to watch someone I love hurt.  

Peace to all who are still in pain.  Don't let that person steal anything else from you. 

[Green Eyed Lady]

It might not, Dark. Each person heals in their own way. I'm certainly not trying to tell you how to feel. I can honestly tell you that when I think of the person who harmed me, I feel nothing.  Perhaps that's not so good either. I don't think there is a right way or a wrong way - just your way.    As I said, I think your story is more horrifying. I honestly believe it's easier to let go of something done to you than to let go of something done to someone you love. Just as each story is different, each path after that story is different.

[taz157]

Aug 11, 2015 14:59:34 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

I don't think there is a right way or a wrong way - just your way.

Very much Yeah that!

[zibazinski]

Dark, do remember that he's not worth going to jail for and also that when they finally die and no one gives a shit, that's karma at its finest. I also never give her a thought until some asshole relative, who knows what she was like, tries to bring her up to me. I used to just walk away. Now I ask them why the hell are they mentioning her name in my presence? That usually either shuts them up or I get the "forgive" speech. Which after they spew out the forgive speech I laugh at them like they're crazy people and walk away. It's ended all but two relatives who still try. If they continue I'll be more blunt.

[Deleted]

Aug 11, 2015 14:56:45 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Except when it comes up directly, like this thread, I spend almost no time whatsoever thinking about my stepfather. I can go months and months without him popping into my head at all. When something like this does come up, yeah I get angry. The things that animal did were horrible. They should make any sensible person angry.

Maybe I'll be able to let that go one day, but right now it doesn't even make sense. You guys are telling me I should be able to remember seeing him beat my mother and my siblings and feel what? Nothing? No anger? No sadness? No regret? I should remember him beating me and feel nothing? That's mentally healthy? Um... fuck that. If that's forgiveness he can have my forgiveness when he pries it from my cold dead hands.

On a day to day basis, I try not to spare him a single thought. He doesn't deserve the time in my head. However, when I remember the things he did, because somebody asks about them, yeah I feel anger. I feel regret. I honestly don't ever see that going away.

Nooo, nooo, that's not what I meant. I feel like I'm making it worse, so I'll leave it alone.

[mmhmm]

It's a lot harder, IMO, to forgive grievous wrongs done to those you love than it is to forgive those same wrongs done to you. Dark, to me, seems focused on the horrors inflicted on his mother and his siblings. That's a two-edged sword because it also involves guilt - guilt because he wasn't able to stop it. He wasn't able to keep them from harm. I understand that. It makes sense to me. It's the same thing that keeps me from having anything to do with my brother. I saw him use my parents up. He wasn't violent. He was just entitled and the ultimate con. A user. I wasn't able to stop him and I'll always feel some guilt for that. The guilt is mixed with the realization that he's the kind of person I'd reject as a friend, or even an acquaintance. I wonder if Dark doesn't feel the same way about his father.

[zibazinski]

Not me. My lack of thought about her keeps me from dwelling on what she did to me. I can't fix it and it's best for me to try to forget about her and what she did.

[Deleted]

Aug 11, 2015 14:59:34 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

It might not, Dark. Each person heals in their own way. I'm certainly not trying to tell you how to feel. I can honestly tell you that when I think of the person who harmed me, I feel nothing.  Perhaps that's not so good either. I don't think there is a right way or a wrong way - just your way.    As I said, I think your story is more horrifying. I honestly believe it's easier to let go of something done to you than to let go of something done to someone you love. Just as each story is different, each path after that story is different.

I think that's what happened with my father. I was mostly indifferent about him until I saw him unmoved when my grown ass brother was crying about his daddy not being there and that pushed me over the edge. After that, every time I thought about him, I'd see my grown ass brother crying and almost begging him for answers and that is what I refused to forgive over the next few years before he died. 

And the ironic part....... I was already getting angry because my brother was crying, trying to talk to this fool, but what set me off was when he kind of shrugged and told my brother these exact words, "At some point you oughta get over it". No kindness or empathy, just oh well. When he said that, the whole world shoulda shook from my rage.

[Deleted]

How could you watch something like that in your head and feel nothing?
 
I'm not the smartest chick ever, but I'm smart enough to say "I don't know" when it matters and it's the truth.

[Green Eyed Lady]

I don't know either other than that I distance myself from the "show". It's not me, personally, in that "show" anymore. Maybe I am nuts! Maybe another reason is because the alternative is just too much to deal with. 

[Virgil Showlion]

Aug 11, 2015 9:19:13 GMT -5 GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl said:

I won't presume to speak for Dark, but, I must say that I can't agree that he needs to forgive and reconnect with his stepfather.

...

Let's allow Dark to make that decision for himself (and for his own family).  In the meantime, he needs people to truly hear what he is saying and not quickly brush it aside with suggestions to simply forgive and reconnect.  Sometimes, it is just not that simple. 

I don't think anyone is suggesting it's easy, or that things will be peachy if a reconciliation takes place. My point is simply that 'never' is a very long time; forgiveness takes effort, it doesn't happen spontaneously; and harbouring resentment inevitably harms the harbourer.

I wouldn't presume to put a timeline on it, but there is a finite time limit. Time doesn't heal all wounds. Bravery, conviction, and initiative are necessary for the process to begin. The timer can run out and the resentment exact its toll if one waits to feel comfortable before proceeding. I used the bullet analogy for a reason.

Aug 11, 2015 10:29:54 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

That doesn't mean you're stuck living in bitterness. You accept that this person is the way he is, and that you want to minimize any contact you have with him, then write him off and move forward. IMHO, the people who get stuck living in bitterness are those people who live their lives expecting people like Dark's step dad to suddenly feel remorse and beg forgiveness - if you live your life never expecting the person to be anything other than what he's always been, you don't feel any bitterness or regret. Just happiness you didn't turn out to be a turd like him, and that you no longer have to be in close contact with him.  

You (and several others) are conflating forgiveness with reconciliation. Reconciliation is one of the possible benefits of forgiveness, but as you point out, it requires that the offender repent and agree to reconcile. This obviously doesn't always happen. Forgiveness is possible even without the prospect of reconciliation, which was Pink Cashmere's earlier point.

Forgiveness in the absence of reconciliation is not unlike "moving on". It's stricter in the sense that "moving on" doesn't always imply letting go of resentment, while genuine forgiveness does. Be careful too not to conflate resentment with reasonable self-preservation. Resentment is a form of hatred. It's the force that fills you with rage, inspires you threaten physical harm, provokes you to slander, diminishes your trust in people generally. It's not simply wanting nothing to do with an unrepentant individual, which I sense is how some people are defining it.

Some of the anecdotes thus far presented very clearly communicate lingering resentment, and I stand by my assessment 100% that it is a poison to body, mind, and spirit. Others express sentiments that are more consistent with self-preservation, which can coexist with forgiveness.

For those crowing loudly about who knows what, here's hoping you keep your mouths tightly zipped in the next Israel-on-Palestine thread, or Sunni-on-Shia thread, or black/white violence thread, because all of those neverending hatreds are born straight from the same unwillingness to forgive offenses. These are offenses you've never suffered personally--murder, genocide, war--hence you apparently fail to qualify to comment on them. We wouldn't want you to look like flaming hypocrites by advocating for peace and forgiveness.

[milee]

The only one "crowing" about something they know nothing about is you, Virgil.

You are a grown white male. You were taken care of as a child and grew into the physically dominant person in a relationship and structure in which you believe (and apparently so do the others in your family) that you are dominant and the "leader" simply because you were born male. You have stated that you've never experienced, nor has anyone you are close to, experienced violence at home.  You have never been abused, never seen abuse, never had to deal with the fallout of abuse in your home.  You have never had to feel scared, never had to stay in a situation where you were hurt and scared but couldn't escape, never had to comfort someone who was scared of a situation that they could not escape.  And unless something very drastic changes, you will most likely live the rest of your life quite secure in the knowledge that this is not something you will be at risk of experiencing especially directed at you.

So given your incredibly privileged existence, it is very sanctimonious for you to continue to press your opinion on the matter, to state what of Dark's reaction you "condone" (even the implication that he would need your approval for his emotions smacks of your blithe assumption that your proclamation or blessing is required) and to attempt to "simplify" the situation which you know nothing about is offensive.  And your use of an emoticon that implies you that any comment contrary to yours is so inconsequential as to be barely worth acknowledging, thus the flippant reply further demonstrates your contempt for any alternate opinion; it's contemptuous and rude.

[Virgil Showlion]

Aug 11, 2015 15:57:01 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

I'm probably misunderstanding you guys, but when people tell me to forgive him, that's what it sounds like to me. I should be able to think about the memories I have of him hurting the people I love and feel nothing. Have no more emotion about it than I do watching an action movie. I just don't ever see that happening. It doesn't even make sense to me. How could you watch something like that in your head and feel nothing?

I think a good first step is not doting on the worst memories. If an individual is truly reformed, it's not wrong to dissociate former misconduct from them.

What helps me is to imagine the cruelest, foulest, most selfish thing I've ever done to anyone (admittedly my worst doesn't approach your step-dad's) and imagine what it would be like if the person I did it to carried that "Virgil" everywhere they went with them. I would always be that person to them. No matter what I said or did, they would look at me and see Virgil, the most despicable individual they ever met.

I'm not perfect. I've sinned against a lot of people. I've made people weep. I've had people scream themselves hoarse at me for offenses I knew were wrong and never apologized for. I've done some things that make me sick with guilt when I think back on them.

I'm such a staunch proponent of forgiveness because I know what it's like to be forgiven, and what it's like to not be forgiven. My resolution is to do unto others as they do unto me, includes forgiving those who've wronged me. If that includes forgiving offenses greater than any I've committed--if I'm assaulted or raped or one of my loved ones is attacked--may God help me to forgive those offenses too. If that means thinking no evil, bringing my thoughts into captivity, so be it. I can't say with certainty that I'll prevail, but I believe in the ideal.

An Israeli Jew could never sit down with a Palestinian to discuss terms of peace if all that's running through the mind of the Jewish man is his family shop bombed into ashes and his infant son dead by mortar fire, and all that's running through the mind of the Palestinian man is the limp body of his wife shot dead by Israeli bullets. At least one of them has to look at the person sitting across from them and dissociate him from all the blood and carnage of a past time. I've seen documentaries where it's happened. It is possible. Hence I have hope.

[milee]

Now that response deserved the eye roll.    Dark, apparently it's important that you forgive because it's all about Virgil and what's important to him.  He'd feel awful knowing that people hadn't forgiven him.  And apparently if something awful ever does happen, he hopes to forgive so it will all be good - in theory.  So forgiveness is important.  Oh, and of course let's not forget about Israel and Palestine; that's a biggie for Virgil so Dark should listen up to how forgiveness needs to come into play there, too. 

The tips of what helps Virgil to forgive were especially helpful... probably need another eye roll there.

[Lizard Queen]

Aug 11, 2015 12:27:40 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Aug 11, 2015 12:13:24 GMT -5 milee said:

You haven't come across as sanctimonious.  (I know your quote wasn't directly addressing me, but I'm the one that threw the "sanctimonious" phrase out there, so wanted to respond.)  Your posts come across as caring and thoughtful.

Thank you for saying that.

Like zib said, we've had these conversations before about forgiveness, and I'm usually the lone person trying to explain how it can benefit the person that was wronged. So I kind of felt anyway, that I should finally explain that I do know exactly how difficult it can be to let certain things go, and I didn't just read about how letting things go can be good for your own well being, I've lived it. Even if they still disagree, or it's just not right for them, at least people can understand that I'm not just talking out my ass when I keep saying the same thing over and over every time the subject comes up.

I just wanted to thank you for talking about this, and others for sharing their stories. The wrongs committed against me were much less in comparison, but i still have a hard time letting go completely, i guess. I mean, i think I've completely moved on, and then something else dredges it back up and i realize that at least some of it is still there. I guess it's sort of like your boxed up feelings.
Anyway, thanks again for talking about this. It sounds like you could write an entire book on the subject.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Then something like this comes up, or somebody I know is in a bad situation, and I use my past experiences to offer some help or guidance, and I think about it.

I can't "like" that enough.  You aren't pretending you are an expert on the subject but rather offering your experience.  That is valuable.  Its horrible to feel completely alone.  Speaking up lets that next person know they aren't alone and that people do go through this and come out the other side. 

[Virgil Showlion]

Aug 11, 2015 19:17:46 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

I'm not going to pretend it never happened or try to forget. It happened. It sucked. It's a part of my past though.

It sounds like you're well on your way, then.

"Forgetting" past wrongs isn't really an accurate term. Strictly speaking, we can't willfully forget anything. It's more about what we keep in the forefront of our minds and how we condition ourselves to perceive others.

For example, I know that if I ask a happily married married man what his wife is like, he'll describe the good times he's had with her, their latest vacation, the goofy thing she did on their anniversary, and very little bad will creep into the narrative. It's not that he's forgotten their raging fight from a year ago or that time she threw out his favourite shirt, these just aren't preeminent in his mind. He doesn't reflect on them or meditate on them. With time, he eventually forgets all but the worst offenses, and these seem very distant. Because he loves his wife. That's the filter he sees her through.

Of course it's far easier for him to do this when the bond of trust hasn't been broken. Grave sins like abuse and infidelity can shatter trust, and at that point I don't believe a couple can ever reconcile to the point where everything is as it was before. If they do, it's a minor miracle. But reconciliation to a degree is better than none at all, and indeed that's the whole premise of marriage counseling if a troubled couple finds themselves in a state where they're no longer able to overlook each other's faults or forgive each other's sins.

I think to an extent we have to apply the same kind of filtering if we hope to forgive and possibly reconcile in other kinds of relationships. It's like compartmentalizing the past and segregating it from the present, recalling the past only when absolutely necessary. It aspires to forgetting the past in a sense, because it's like letting the natural attrition of the mind efface the old relationship while continually edifying the new.

Again, just my idealistic $0.02.

Aug 11, 2015 19:17:46 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

What helps me is to imagine the cruelest, foulest, most selfish thing I've ever done to anyone (admittedly my worst doesn't approach your step-dad's) and imagine what it would be like if the person I did it to carried that "Virgil" everywhere they went with them. I would always be that person to them. No matter what I said or did, they would look at me and see Virgil, the most despicable individual they ever met.

Hate to break it to you buddy, but they do. Even if you apologize later, they accept it, and you move on there's always that little part of them that sees the worst you. They know you're capable of it. That knowledge, and the memory that goes with it never goes away. If you don't want people looking at you like a monster, don't act like one in the first place.

That doesn't help me now, though, does it?

It's good advice, but if people always behaved lovingly and rationally, we wouldn't have jealous girlfriends prowling the company parking lot with crowbars. We wouldn't have people drinking too much, acting carelessly, giving into primal lusts, succumbing to greed and envy. Sometimes people hurt others simply because hurting others is the only thing they were taught how to do.

As for the people I've hurt always harbouring that scar, you're exactly right. Some people will always see me that way. I wish they wouldn't. I wish I could take it back. Hence the more they can forgive, the more grateful I am to be forgiven.

[milee]

I have never been hungry and am a member of a privileged class that will never be hungry.  Those silly peasants who complain about being hungry should just eat cake.

In fact, the more they complain about their petty hunger concerns, I will just roll my eyes and explain in many different ways why they should eat cake and why eating cake is superior to hunger.  If I write clearly about how cake is simply the only option, they will surely see the error of their ways and revel in the righteousness of my statements.  I may even condone some of their actions. 

If my eye rolls and pontificating on cake is not sufficient to convince them of the inherent superiority of my position, perhaps I shall post recipes about cake.

[msventoux]

Aug 11, 2015 20:22:54 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Aug 11, 2015 19:17:46 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

I'm not going to pretend it never happened or try to forget. It happened. It sucked. It's a part of my past though.

It sounds like you're well on your way, then.

"Forgetting" past wrongs isn't really an accurate term. Strictly speaking, we can't willfully forget anything. It's more about what we keep in the forefront of our minds and how we condition ourselves to perceive others.

For example, I know that if I ask a happily married married man what his wife is like, he'll describe the good times he's had with her, their latest vacation, the goofy thing she did on their anniversary, and very little bad will creep into the narrative. It's not that he's forgotten their raging fight from a year ago or that time she threw out his favourite shirt, these just aren't preeminent in his mind. He doesn't reflect on them or meditate on them. With time, he eventually forgets all but the worst offenses, and these seem very distant. Because he loves his wife. That's the filter he sees her through.

Of course it's far easier for him to do this when the bond of trust hasn't been broken. Grave sins like abuse and infidelity can shatter trust, and at that point I don't believe a couple can ever reconcile to the point where everything is as it was before. If they do, it's a minor miracle. But reconciliation to a degree is better than none at all, and indeed that's the whole premise of marriage counseling if a troubled couple finds themselves in a state where they're no longer able to overlook each other's faults or forgive each other's sins.

I think to an extent we have to apply the same kind of filtering if we hope to forgive and possibly reconcile in other kinds of relationships. It's like compartmentalizing the past and segregating it from the present, recalling the past only when absolutely necessary. It aspires to forgetting the past in a sense, because it's like letting the natural attrition of the mind efface the old relationship while continually edifying the new.

Again, just my idealistic $0.02.

Aug 11, 2015 19:17:46 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Hate to break it to you buddy, but they do. Even if you apologize later, they accept it, and you move on there's always that little part of them that sees the worst you. They know you're capable of it. That knowledge, and the memory that goes with it never goes away. If you don't want people looking at you like a monster, don't act like one in the first place.

That doesn't help me now, though, does it?

It's good advice, but if people always behaved lovingly and rationally, we wouldn't have jealous girlfriends prowling the company parking lot with crowbars. We wouldn't have people drinking too much, acting carelessly, giving into primal lusts, succumbing to greed and envy. Sometimes people hurt others simply because hurting others is the only thing they were taught how to do.

As for the people I've hurt always harbouring that scar, you're exactly right. Some people will always see me that way. I wish they wouldn't. I wish I could take it back. Hence the more they can forgive, the more grateful I am to be forgiven.

It's not about you.  The hallmark of the abuse I've suffered has been the abuser thinking the world revolved around him.  He was driven to do reprehensible acts by the behavior of others-not his fault.  He couldn't control himself-not his fault.  He feels remorse and golly gee whiz that's just horrible for him to live with...the people he abused are just unreasonable by not recognizing his efforts-not his fault.

How about the person who wronged other people takes responsibility for his actions, realizes some actions don't deserve forgiveness and or reconciliation, and doesn't expect the people he abused to be terribly concerned about what he is and isn't grateful for?

[Ombud]

Aug 8, 2015 21:05:02 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

There is also the possibility that she came to her senses and realized she acted like a total lunatic and it bothers her. Maybe she is generally a nice person that just went a little crazy for a while and she wanted to do what she could to make it as right as possible with you. Especially as she sees you every now and again and actually likes you.

And the moon is made of green cheese. More likely she started therapy and it's a suggestion as to how to repair her life. Wonder if she also apologized to the wife

[Deleted]

Aug 11, 2015 21:11:35 GMT -5 Ombud said:

Aug 8, 2015 21:05:02 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

There is also the possibility that she came to her senses and realized she acted like a total lunatic and it bothers her. Maybe she is generally a nice person that just went a little crazy for a while and she wanted to do what she could to make it as right as possible with you. Especially as she sees you every now and again and actually likes you.

And the moon is made of green cheese. More likely she started therapy and it's a suggestion as to how to repair her life. Wonder if she also apologized to the wife

You win, you are more cynical than I am.

[Virgil Showlion]

Aug 11, 2015 20:45:18 GMT -5 msventoux said:

It's not about you.  The hallmark of the abuse I've suffered has been the abuser thinking the world revolved around him.  He was driven to do reprehensible acts by the behavior of others-not his fault.  He couldn't control himself-not his fault.  He feels remorse and golly gee whiz that's just horrible for him to live with...the people he abused are just unreasonable by not recognizing his efforts-not his fault.

How about the person who wronged other people takes responsibility for his actions, realizes some actions don't deserve forgiveness and or reconciliation, and doesn't expect the people he abused to be terribly concerned about what he is and isn't grateful for?

The abuser not willing to take responsibility for their actions is by definition an unrepentant abuser. As I remarked earlier, this may prevent reconciliation, but it doesn't preclude genuine forgiveness.

Speaking to the rest, the whole point of forgiveness is that we eschew the whole concept of an eye for an eye on what people deserve. Forgiveness is about recompensing good for evil. Recompensing selflessness for selfishness.

I've written my previous posts casting myself as the offender to emphasize the fact that I've had people forgive me, recompense me selflessness for selfishness, and the fruits of that have led me to believe this is a behaviour I ought to emulate to the utmost. Indeed I believe we all ought to emulate it to the utmost if we aspire to be selfless people. It's not about what the objects of our derision deserve.

I can't quote scripture but suffice it to say that mercy triumphs over justice. We ought to at least champion the virtue of mercy as an ideal and strive for it, acknowledging that it's not an easy path to take at times.

We've all seen the fruits of unforgiving attitudes in sectarian conflicts the world over, some dating back millennia. The sins to be forgiven on both sides are monumental and pile up to the heavens. Both sides seek justice, but neither ever attains it. As I stated earlier, I've watched compelling documentaries where old enemies, recognizing the importance of mercy, forgive crimes of murder, torture, and great violence. The principle applies just as well to our enemies in our families as to our wartime enemies, ethnic enemies, etc. It affirms for me that forgiveness is possible.

[happyhoix]

Speaking to the rest, the whole point of forgiveness is that we eschew the whole concept of an eye for an eye on what people deserve. Forgiveness is about recompensing good for evil. Recompensing selflessness for selfishness.

Virgil I think you're focusing on this from a religious definition of forgiveness, with the belief that we can't be forgiven if we aren't willing to forgive others, and with your emphasis on the idea of mercy.

From a secular and practical point of view, if you've witnessed something as horrific as Dark has, happening to people that you love, if you can get to the point where you can let go of the anger and resentment towards that person and where you are indifferent to them, then you're good. Their bad actions no longer overshadow your life. From a mental health point of view, that's all that's required to live a happy and healthy life.  

[Virgil Showlion]

Aug 12, 2015 8:38:49 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

...if you can get to the point where you can let go of the anger and resentment towards that person and where you are indifferent to them, then you're good.

This is precisely how I define forgiveness (see the latter part of Reply #77), so there is no quarrel.

Reconciliation in addition to forgiveness is a "nice to have", not a necessity. And it isn't always possible.

I don't know whether it's possible in Dark's case. It seems like his step-father is repentant prima facie, trying to reconcile via Facebook, etc., hence there's at least a glimmer of hope.

[milee]

The peasants have commenced acceptance of my diatribe on the inherent correctness of the essential nature of buttercream frosting on their cake, hence there is a glimmer of hope.

When their beliefs align precisely with mine, there will be no need for the petty quarrel.  They will stop their whining about starving, eat their cake and shut the fuck up.  Hopefully that will happen soon or I will need to deploy more contemptuous emoticons.

[swamp]

I don't understand forgiveness. Some people have done some awful things to me. I don't spend my life dwelling on it, but I didn't forget what was done and I will NEVER trust that person again.

Letting go was for my own mental health. I don't give a fuck about the other persons mental well being, or what they think about me.

I don't consider that forgiveness.

[swamp]

Aug 12, 2015 9:45:30 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Aug 12, 2015 8:38:49 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

...if you can get to the point where you can let go of the anger and resentment towards that person and where you are indifferent to them, then you're good.

This is precisely how I define forgiveness (see the latter part of Reply #77), so there is no quarrel.

Reconciliation in addition to forgiveness is a "nice to have", not a necessity. And it isn't always possible.

I don't know whether it's possible in Dark's case. It seems like his step-father is repentant prima facie, trying to reconcile via Facebook, etc., hence there's at least a glimmer of hope.

Why should there be a glimmer of hope for reconciliation for the asshole?

[milee]

Aug 12, 2015 11:15:58 GMT -5 swamp said:

Aug 12, 2015 9:45:30 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

This is precisely how I define forgiveness (see the latter part of Reply #77), so there is no quarrel.

Reconciliation in addition to forgiveness is a "nice to have", not a necessity. And it isn't always possible.

I don't know whether it's possible in Dark's case. It seems like his step-father is repentant prima facie, trying to reconcile via Facebook, etc., hence there's at least a glimmer of hope.

Why should there be a glimmer of hope for reconciliation for the asshole?

Because I have Decreed it!!!

It's not about Dark, it's about how this might impact me and the mythology, um I mean Absolute Truth that is written in a book that not everybody believes in.  But never fear - I will just let you know how you need to think and feel.  Now eat your cake or I shall have to taunt you a second time.

[Green Eyed Lady]

This thread was a pretty helpful thread for me. It helps to be reminded once in awhile that a person isn't alone in some stuff they have to deal with. I can dive into a self-pity pool fairly quickly sometimes. This has been helpful to know what others are thinking....doing....saying.

But? Since it's devolved in to some extremely petty and immature behaviors which are apparently way more important to voice than actual real-life issues, I'll take it off my "participated in" list and realize I've gotten all from this thread that I'm going to get.  Thanks to those who have helped along the way. 

[MJ2.0]

it's devolved in to some extremely petty and immature behaviors which are apparently way more important to voice than actual real-life issues

yeah, seriously.