weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 12, 2015 11:51:25 GMT -5
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Aug 12, 2015 11:53:39 GMT -5
The PC term is "First Nations" (FN) People. Many FN people live in squalor on reservations under the supervision of fantastically corrupt tribal chiefs and tribal councils. Circa 2015, the only way Canada's warriors for social justice will let any government deal with them is through the tried-and-guaranteed-to-fail five point strategy: - Throw more money at the problem, which invariably goes to the corrupt tribal leadership who do nothing but service their own interests with it.
- Pay lip service to the deplorable conditions on the reservations in Parliament. Also to the cultural treasure constituted by Canada's First Nations, and our need to preserve it.
- Negotiate with legions of angry, often violent, FN protesters as they block major commerce routes, bridges, highways, etc., which is no small part of why many Canadians resent them.
- Shoot down any and all attempts at cultural assimilation that might lead to integration with broader society, which is now labeled as "cultural genocide".
- See no evil; hear no evil; speak no evil. Especially when it comes to the root cause of the racism, which categorically originates from repeated offenses perpetrated by FN individuals against non-FN Canadians that the non-FNs generalize to all FN people. Examples in the invective of my friends/family include accidental fires burning down rural townships, attempted rape, rampant alcoholism, abuses of Canada's equivalent of Affirmative Action, racist and misogynistic attitudes, worksite disasters, trespassing, overfishing, and random drunk crazy people.
Dysfunctional FN reserves in Canada are miniature versions of Ferguson. The people can't help themselves. Nobody else has any idea how to help them. "Handling" them consists of keeping them segregated (consistent with their declared wishes, I might add), throwing money at their leaders, and preventing them from disrupting commerce. Which party is responsible for this strategy? All of them. It's been the same for 40+ years now, though governments of every colour and stripe. Which party will continue with this strategy? All of them. Cutting off the flow of funds is unthinkable. Cultural assimilation is unthinkable. Dismantling the reservations, handing the residents cheques, and giving them a year to find houses and jobs in the same pool as the rest of us is unthinkable. Community action projects don't work. "Give back to your community" initiatives for the successful individuals who escape the cycle of poverty have proven effective but are relatively rare. The only option left is the guaranteed-to-fail five-point strategy, and you can bet it will be the go-to strategy for many a decade yet. The main difference between FN conflicts and US black/white conflicts would be the scale. Even relative to our population, FN issues affect far fewer Canadians per capita than the black/white conflict in the US. I daresay the vast majority of Canadians will never interact with on-reservation FN people. The conflicts are largely manifest in a handful of towns and cities. The city of Winnipeg is the biggest, and worst (conflict-wise). No excuses to be accepted here. Sounds quite a bit like our big city ghettos where the Democratic leadership refuses to explain the wasted billions of dollars handed out to the minorities without much success, or accounting, and yet our Canadian brethren berate conservatives here who demand an accounting for the funds.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Aug 12, 2015 11:55:48 GMT -5
^^^ This. (Virgil's post)
How much more money are we supposed to throw at them? We give them millions and millions. The chiefs pocket the money while the residents on the reservations live in squalor with no running water. When we ask for an accounting of the money we're told "None of your business." Just like the Democrats in the blue cities. No accounting for the funds, but must spend more on the failures in place. You are sounding like an American conservative Republican defending the country's stance on a minority that has been treated terribly for centuries, that you continue to denigrate south of your border. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png)
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 15, 2015 12:04:13 GMT -5
^^^ This. (Virgil's post)
How much more money are we supposed to throw at them? We give them millions and millions. The chiefs pocket the money while the residents on the reservations live in squalor with no running water. When we ask for an accounting of the money we're told "None of your business." This is a subject that I'm not convinced on either way. Well, I'm convinced that we committed atrocities - and they also did - but as far as what we should do legislation wise I don't know.
The stats are horrible. This last deployment I worked with a guy from the Oglala Sioux tribe, and he was very frank about the situation. But it's deeper than the stats in my opinion - and they are horrible - but what do they want? There is no industry on the Navajo reservation here in Arizona, there isn't really much of anything. But the other side of the argument is that this is their incestral land and where they are happy. When I went there I saw a lot of poverty, but that was from my point of view...if you want to live this way I won't interfere. I think the first thing to ask is "how do you want to live?" and then move on from there.
LOL!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2015 12:20:25 GMT -5
So which party, or person is going to take care of the Canadian Indian's desire to be made whole again from the transgressions of the English and French and are treated as Negroes are in the U.S.A.? I only bring this up because some posters from Canada continue to point out how bad we are south of the border here in race relations, as if Canada is lilly white in race relations. We criticize our own race relations, you just don't read it because it's always American politics on here. I've never met a Canadian that thinks we did everything right in that area. Or are doing everything right in that area.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 15, 2015 12:22:21 GMT -5
True story. The Navajo believe that Northeast Arizona/Northwest New Mexico is their ancestral land. Feel free to read up on it .
Dinetah
um....yeah. whoosh!!!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2015 12:27:17 GMT -5
LOL ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/grin.png)
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 15, 2015 12:46:06 GMT -5
This is a subject that I'm not convinced on either way. Well, I'm convinced that we committed atrocities - and they also did - but as far as what we should do legislation wise I don't know.
The stats are horrible. This last deployment I worked with a guy from the Oglala Sioux tribe, and he was very frank about the situation. But it's deeper than the stats in my opinion - and they are horrible - but what do they want? There is no industry on the Navajo reservation here in Arizona, there isn't really much of anything. But the other side of the argument is that this is their incestral land and where they are happy. When I went there I saw a lot of poverty, but that was from my point of view...if you want to live this way I won't interfere. I think the first thing to ask is "how do you want to live?" and then move on from there.
LOL! <chuckle> That got me, too! Sometimes, typos are hilarious! ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/grin.png)
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 15, 2015 12:54:41 GMT -5
<chuckle> That got me, too! Sometimes, typos are hilarious! ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/grin.png) something about that word combination really made me chuckle.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Aug 15, 2015 12:56:46 GMT -5
Honestly, that is a level of detail I would not expect to find. How about if you find it for me? ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/grin.png)
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 15, 2015 12:59:38 GMT -5
<chuckle> That got me, too! Sometimes, typos are hilarious! ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/grin.png) something about that word combination really made me chuckle. It did me, as well. I always get a laugh from typos that actually result in something ... interesting! ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png)
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 15, 2015 13:11:56 GMT -5
<chuckle> That got me, too! Sometimes, typos are hilarious! ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/grin.png) Haha, well they had some...err..."interesting" beliefs regarding that too ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/rofl.gif) . I'll let folks do the research on their own on that one ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/yikes.png) . I've read about some of that. Mother had an interest in American Indian history and beliefs and I picked it up. Both of us did a good deal of reading on the subject. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/smiley.png)
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 19, 2015 2:14:31 GMT -5
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 19, 2015 2:27:08 GMT -5
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Aug 19, 2015 5:57:21 GMT -5
Not quite so simple. The NDP political warchest is considerably smaller than the other parties', especially the PCs, and they're burning through their ad budget early. They're going to lose ground in the final weeks of the campaign. Having said this, I still think they'll eke out a narrow win.
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 19, 2015 9:37:59 GMT -5
Not quite so simple. The NDP political warchest is considerably smaller than the other parties', especially the PCs, and they're burning through their ad budget early. They're going to lose ground in the final weeks of the campaign. Having said this, I still think they'll eke out a narrow win. that was a conditional statement, and it really was just that simple. IF the numbers hold, they will crush HarperIF the numbers don't hold, all bets are off. you caught that, right?
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Aug 20, 2015 18:05:43 GMT -5
Not quite so simple. The NDP political warchest is considerably smaller than the other parties', especially the PCs, and they're burning through their ad budget early. They're going to lose ground in the final weeks of the campaign. Having said this, I still think they'll eke out a narrow win. that was a conditional statement, and it really was just that simple. IF the numbers hold, they will crush HarperIF the numbers don't hold, all bets are off. you caught that, right? Yeah. I'm saying the numbers probably won't hold.
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 21, 2015 12:08:10 GMT -5
that was a conditional statement, and it really was just that simple. IF the numbers hold, they will crush HarperIF the numbers don't hold, all bets are off. you caught that, right? Yeah. I'm saying the numbers probably won't hold. cool. but that doesn't contradict my point, at all. i think we end up arguing a lot because of stuff like this.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Aug 21, 2015 15:27:36 GMT -5
Yeah. I'm saying the numbers probably won't hold. cool. but that doesn't contradict my point, at all. i think we end up arguing a lot because of stuff like this. I guess so. To me, "If those numbers hold, they're going to crush Harper." is a rhetorical statement inviting a critique of the predicate. Namely, "If those numbers hold...". This is mainly because i) the statement itself is obvious, and ii) the statement didn't strike me as you cheering on the NDP, although "crush Harper" for a sub-7% margin is a curious choice of words. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png)
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 21, 2015 16:18:59 GMT -5
cool. but that doesn't contradict my point, at all. i think we end up arguing a lot because of stuff like this. I guess so. To me, "If those numbers hold, they're going to crush Harper." is a rhetorical statement inviting a critique of the predicate. Namely, "If those numbers hold...". This is mainly because i) the statement itself is obvious, and ii) the statement didn't strike me as you cheering on the NDP, although "crush Harper" for a sub-7% margin is a curious choice of words. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png) the statement is not obvious if you don't know the poll numbers, Virgil. when the Conservatives swept into majority rule, they did so with similar numbers. i would say that, given the historical significance of not having to form a coalition government, that CRUSH is a suitable way to describe it. and yeah, i would love to see Harper go down, because i find him loathsome. i don't know much about the NDP, but is there any reason i should worry about them, in your opinion?
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Aug 21, 2015 17:20:08 GMT -5
I guess so. To me, "If those numbers hold, they're going to crush Harper." is a rhetorical statement inviting a critique of the predicate. Namely, "If those numbers hold...". This is mainly because i) the statement itself is obvious, and ii) the statement didn't strike me as you cheering on the NDP, although "crush Harper" for a sub-7% margin is a curious choice of words. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png) the statement is not obvious if you don't know the poll numbers, Virgil. when the Conservatives swept into majority rule, they did so with similar numbers. i would say that, given the historical significance of not having to form a coalition government, that CRUSH is a suitable way to describe it. and yeah, i would love to see Harper go down, because i find him loathsome. i don't know much about the NDP, but is there any reason i should worry about them, in your opinion? Other than the fact that they spend like drunken sailors on the eve of the apocalypse, and were more or less singularly responsible for the "brain drain" phenomenon of the 1990's that saw Canadian professionals flee en masse down to the US, no. They'll undoubtedly hike taxes and run deficits. I'm hoping Mr. Mulcair learned the lessons of Bob Rae's disastrous NDP premiership and keeps the tax hikes somewhere below "punitive". Taxes could stand to go up a bit. Deficits are an inevitability, but the PCs sold out to the Princeton school of economic thought in 2008, hence deficits are an inevitability with all parties. The PCs also used to be the official party of not selling out to Quebec (Canada's money-sucking, cake-eating, debt-producing problem child), but that changed around the 2010 Olympics. Hence there's at least reason to hope that a federal NDP government will be the least worst alternative of all. Even more comforting is the fact that we're just as doomed to collapse as you guys are, hence now is as good a time as any to spend like it's the end of the world.
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 21, 2015 17:35:10 GMT -5
the statement is not obvious if you don't know the poll numbers, Virgil. when the Conservatives swept into majority rule, they did so with similar numbers. i would say that, given the historical significance of not having to form a coalition government, that CRUSH is a suitable way to describe it. and yeah, i would love to see Harper go down, because i find him loathsome. i don't know much about the NDP, but is there any reason i should worry about them, in your opinion? Other than the fact that they spend like drunken sailors on the eve of the apocalypse, and were more or less singularly responsible for the "brain drain" phenomenon of the 1990's that saw Canadian professionals flee en masse down to the US, no. They'll undoubtedly hike taxes and run deficits. I'm hoping Mr. Mulcair learned the lessons of Bob Rae's disastrous NDP premiership and keeps the tax hikes somewhere below "punitive". Taxes could stand to go up a bit. Deficits are an inevitability, but the PCs sold out to the Princeton school of economic thought in 2008, hence deficits are an inevitability with all parties. The PCs also used to be the official party of not selling out to Quebec (Canada's money-sucking, cake-eating, debt-producing problem child), but that changed around the 2010 Olympics. Hence there's at least reason to hope that a federal NDP government will be the least worst alternative of all. Even more comforting is the fact that we're just as doomed to collapse as you guys are, hence now is as good a time as any to spend like it's the end of the world. i would have to be pretty cynical to see that as optimistic.
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Post by deziloooooo on Aug 25, 2015 6:09:14 GMT -5
For anyone interested this is a pretty good explanation of the Canadian national parties. Interesting read....will have to skim it again to get it all down but thanks....always wanted to know more about our friend to the North but to lazy to ferrit it out..this did it just fine ....didn't know the seperat movement was no longer relevant...thought it was still strong similar to the move in Scotland which many resurface shortly...
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PauletteG
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Post by PauletteG on Aug 25, 2015 13:00:45 GMT -5
I'm a Canadian citizen (born, raised, educated there, never revoked citizenship, never took on another country's citizenship, have passport). I signed up on the Register of International Electors in May and on July 20 an Ontario Court overturned my voting rights.
I'm completely against Bill C-51, and I'm irritated that my country's government is afraid to let me vote. I'm asking as many Canadians as possible to bring a new or long-dormant voter with them to the polls, to compensate for the vote I would have cast. The percentage of Canadian voters participating in elections has gone down, and I don't see how removing me and other Canadian citizens from the register of Electors is going to help raise voter participation.
Please remind Canadian citizens who are still eligible to vote in October to do so on Election Day, October 19.
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 25, 2015 15:56:07 GMT -5
I'm a Canadian citizen (born, raised, educated there, never revoked citizenship, never took on another country's citizenship, have passport). I signed up on the Register of International Electors in May and on July 20 an Ontario Court overturned my voting rights. I'm completely against Bill C-51, and I'm irritated that my country's government is afraid to let me vote. I'm asking as many Canadians as possible to bring a new or long-dormant voter with them to the polls, to compensate for the vote I would have cast. The percentage of Canadian voters participating in elections has gone down, and I don't see how removing me and other Canadian citizens from the register of Electors is going to help raise voter participation. Please remind Canadian citizens who are still eligible to vote in October to do so on Election Day, October 19. What was the court's rationale in revoking your right to vote?
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PauletteG
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Post by PauletteG on Aug 25, 2015 16:09:14 GMT -5
I'm a Canadian citizen (born, raised, educated there, never revoked citizenship, never took on another country's citizenship, have passport). I signed up on the Register of International Electors in May and on July 20 an Ontario Court overturned my voting rights. I'm completely against Bill C-51, and I'm irritated that my country's government is afraid to let me vote. I'm asking as many Canadians as possible to bring a new or long-dormant voter with them to the polls, to compensate for the vote I would have cast. The percentage of Canadian voters participating in elections has gone down, and I don't see how removing me and other Canadian citizens from the register of Electors is going to help raise voter participation. Please remind Canadian citizens who are still eligible to vote in October to do so on Election Day, October 19. What was the court's rationale in revoking your right to vote? I'll quote from the Court's rationale: Firstly, the assumption that a non-resident citizen is less directly or less continually concerned with his country’s day-to-day problems and has less knowledge of them; secondly, the fact that it is impracticable for the parliamentary candidates to present the different electoral issues to citizens abroad and that non-resident citizens have no influence on the selection of candidates or on the formulation of their electoral programmes; thirdly, the close connection between the right to vote in parliamentary elections and the fact of being directly affected by the acts of the political bodies so elected; and, fourthly, the legitimate concern the legislature may have to limit the influence of citizens living abroad in elections on issues which, while admittedly fundamental, primarily affect persons living in the country. I don't have a date as to when I'm going to return. I do have an address in Canada for determining what riding I'd be voting in, however, and I do return to it annually. I just haven't gathered up all my stuff and departed for good the country I'm currently in.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 25, 2015 16:20:51 GMT -5
What was the court's rationale in revoking your right to vote? I'll quote from the Court's rationale: Firstly, the assumption that a non-resident citizen is less directly or less continually concerned with his country’s day-to-day problems and has less knowledge of them; secondly, the fact that it is impracticable for the parliamentary candidates to present the different electoral issues to citizens abroad and that non-resident citizens have no influence on the selection of candidates or on the formulation of their electoral programmes; thirdly, the close connection between the right to vote in parliamentary elections and the fact of being directly affected by the acts of the political bodies so elected; and, fourthly, the legitimate concern the legislature may have to limit the influence of citizens living abroad in elections on issues which, while admittedly fundamental, primarily affect persons living in the country. I don't have a date as to when I'm going to return. I do have an address in Canada for determining what riding I'd be voting in, however, and I do return to it annually. I just haven't gathered up all my stuff and departed for good the country I'm currently in. Reminds me of the recent vote in Ireland regarding same-sex marriage. To vote in the referendum, you had to vote in person in Ireland. Voting by mail if you lived abroad was not allowed. Many Irish citizens living abroad traveled back to Ireland just to vote in the referendum.
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PauletteG
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Post by PauletteG on Aug 25, 2015 16:28:44 GMT -5
My situation doesn't remind me of the recent vote in Ireland regarding same-sex marriage at all. I would have NO problem voting in person in Canada. The last election I participated in when I was living abroad I actually brought my ballot with me, had dinner with relatives at a restaurant in a Canadian city, filled in my ballot behind the menu, put it in an envelope, sealed it, stamped it.
I would have a problem presenting a utilities bill or a property tax bill as proof of residency in Canada, however. I wish the court delivered the compromise of "you want to vote? Fine, get a Canadian address, show up at the polls, or we'll mail you an advance ballot at that address and you vote with your Canadian stamp on an envelope dropped into a Canadian mailbox or postal outlet."
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PauletteG
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Post by PauletteG on Aug 25, 2015 16:45:16 GMT -5
If you no longer live there, why does it bother you so much? You won't have to live with any of the stupid decisions that the politicians you don't support would make. I would when I move back, and I don't know when that'll be. The politicians I, and apparently the majority of voting Canadians (the nonvoting citizens give approval via apathy) do not support are not acting in the best interests of the electorate. My friends there still have to live with those stupid decisions. That I am immune to any idiotic rules or laws or restrictions a government myopically rushes into a Commons and Senate vote but excludes the electorate (e.g. C-51) when I am in Canada is an incorrect statement. When I shop in Canada, I pay a Harmonized Sales Tax and a Provincial Sales Tax. I am never told "oh well, you don't benefit from government programs and infrastructure for the most part, so we won't charge you this tax." I am a Canadian citizen, and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the Constitution detail my rights, duties and responsibilities. Governments that rush in unconstitutional laws that violate the Constitution and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms by unreasonably limiting freedom of expression and ability to engage in proper democratic debate have no place in Ottawa, and my fellow citizens need all the help they can get bringing that message to Elections Canada.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 25, 2015 23:08:38 GMT -5
I'm a Canadian citizen (born, raised, educated there, never revoked citizenship, never took on another country's citizenship, have passport). I signed up on the Register of International Electors in May and on July 20 an Ontario Court overturned my voting rights. I'm completely against Bill C-51, and I'm irritated that my country's government is afraid to let me vote. I'm asking as many Canadians as possible to bring a new or long-dormant voter with them to the polls, to compensate for the vote I would have cast. The percentage of Canadian voters participating in elections has gone down, and I don't see how removing me and other Canadian citizens from the register of Electors is going to help raise voter participation. Please remind Canadian citizens who are still eligible to vote in October to do so on Election Day, October 19. Umm, do you mind if I ask who you wold have voted for?
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