Bonny
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Jun 21, 2015 18:37:05 GMT -5
Post by Bonny on Jun 21, 2015 18:37:05 GMT -5
I'm glad she's made the spreasheet and wants to show it to you. That's probably a big, and difficult, step for her. You clearly want to try and make this work, and so does she. I hope you are able to both listen to each other during the first spreadsheet conversation. In some ways, you are financially coaching her. Instead of making statements to her about her money, you might ask her questions about money that will lead her to think critically about it. Then it won't seem like you're telling her what to do. Maybe you already do something like that. Where I live, child support is expected by the state to be reviewed every 36 months. Maybe there's a statute like that where you live? Or mom makes a lot more than Dad.
Sad but funny story about DH's parent's CS. DFIL finds out that one of his cousins is paying for DH's private schooling. Plus DH has a job. DFIL goes to court to see if he can get his CS reduced. Judge looks at how much DFIL is getting between his job and the income from his inheritance and ups the CS payment!
Now even though that was clearly a douchebag move, I do understand why he did it. DMIL had basically turned his remaining family against DFIL and very much played the victim. Of course it was she who had the affair but she fails to share THAT part of why the marriage didn't work out.
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Deleted
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Jun 21, 2015 18:39:05 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 18:39:05 GMT -5
Whoever had the affair, it wasn't the kid...
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jun 21, 2015 19:11:14 GMT -5
Whoever had the affair, it wasn't the kid... My point is that Beergut is pushing the GF to go back for more CS. It's possible that GF makes a lot more than ex. Going to court can be a cr*pshoot.
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mamasita99
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Jun 21, 2015 20:29:37 GMT -5
Post by mamasita99 on Jun 21, 2015 20:29:37 GMT -5
Whoever had the affair, it wasn't the kid... My point is that Beergut is pushing the GF to go back for more CS. It's possible that GF makes a lot more than ex. Going to court can be a cr*pshoot. That is exactly why I don't push to have our CS revisited. It may seem like it's not a lot of CS, but when I consider all of the other factors (ex's fluctuating contractor job, no more need for day care, my slow but steady rise in salary, etc.), the CS is probably about right. If ex would go out and get a better paying job then I could see CS increasing, but as it stands now, I won't risk the chance that CS could get reduced.
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lurkyloo
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Jun 21, 2015 20:36:00 GMT -5
Post by lurkyloo on Jun 21, 2015 20:36:00 GMT -5
I have a suggestion: I wouldn't hold the money she requested against her exactly, but I would make it uncomfortable for her. Be careful about how you do it--you don't want to come off as her parent or a jerk in general--but tell her you're really concerned that she had to ask you for money twice, on a vacation that you thought was too expensive already. Have her go over the details with you of why exactly she went $300 over budget, why she never accounted for the lamp shade, etc. Best case scenario, it may actually help her to stop and think next time before she drops a bunch of money she doesn't have on non-necessities; worst case she'll still think twice before treating you as her EF again because she'll have negative associations with the consequences. (OK, maybe worst case she blows up at you treating her like a child and dumps you, but if you're careful about the way you do it and she still does that then it might be for the best...)
Bumps and mishaps happen. If you're satisfied with her overall effort, then I'd let it go...but I'd still make her a little uncomfortable about it first. Just my $0.02.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Jun 21, 2015 21:21:38 GMT -5
Beergut pays his share of the household bills with food and vacations. If I had a bf who lived with me and didn't pay anything toward the main living expenses (I have), then yes I would probably feel entitled to ask for the money for this trip. Especially given that it wouldn't have been necessary in the first place if he handed bought the camps...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2015 6:55:04 GMT -5
Lets see, if my BF moved in with me and was urging me to get into better financial shape, I would expect practical contributions to the household. If I was only spending 300/month on groceries and he came in and started spending 900/month I'd want thim to understand that he only took $300 worth of pressure off of me, not $900. And maybe at least some of that $300 is being absorbed somewhere else now in costs associated with him being there. If I've been foregoing vacations, taking me on vacation isn't helping either, in fact it's likely to be causing me to spend money I wouldn't have otherwise.
Beergut may be spending quite a bit of money on GF and the children, but not necessarily in a way that makes it easier for to get her shit together while he's living there. It's not right or wrong, but I think it matters since he does live there and he does want her to improve her finances. And I could be way off base with this whole post, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.
beergut, I like how thoughful you seem to be with her children. I raised 2 kids by myself and it's just really nice to "hear" a man speak about his GF's teenage kids with a positive attitude and talk about how they're really good kids.
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beergut
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Jun 22, 2015 7:22:56 GMT -5
Post by beergut on Jun 22, 2015 7:22:56 GMT -5
Whoever had the affair, it wasn't the kid... My point is that Beergut is pushing the GF to go back for more CS. It's possible that GF makes a lot more than ex. Going to court can be a cr*pshoot. I don't know a ton about child support, which is why I ask this question. Would the fact that I live in the house enter into the equation, i.e. why does she needs more CS when she has another employed adult in the house? It would explain why she is hesitant to bring it up with him.
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zibazinski
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Jun 22, 2015 7:23:59 GMT -5
Post by zibazinski on Jun 22, 2015 7:23:59 GMT -5
They probably are. On the other hand, what are they learning? That a man is the answer to their problems? Especially financial ones. That's great if they ar drop dead gorgeous and they can use that to marry a very rich guy but very rich guys usually protect their money so maybe they benefit until they get traded in for newer models. A man is not a plan. They seem to be athletic. if they are also smart or smart enough to get into college on an athletic scholarship, it'd be a lot better for them to focus on supporting themselves and living within their means. Beer may not be paying his own way but he may well be. Food for 5 people a month could easily be a grand or more. So her buying food is a non issue anymore. But like a lot of people, that savings just gets spent. DH thinks because I live for "free" with him that I should be better off than I was. Part of that is true but most of it isn't. I still think whatever he was spending before supporting himself on his own should be given to her every month. If she is unable to support her kids and herself with that help then she is in deeper doo doo than maybe Beer wants or should deal with. Some people , no matter how much they have, spend every dime. You give them more, they spend more. There's two ways of handling it. Either give her money each month and it should add up to what you spent before moving in or go over every expense she has, utilities, house payment, taxes, insurance, yada yada, and then her income including CS. Figure it out from there. As far as an increase in CS? She makes more money and she has a live in. I wouldn't go there at all.
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beergut
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Jun 22, 2015 7:31:13 GMT -5
Post by beergut on Jun 22, 2015 7:31:13 GMT -5
Lets see, if my BF moved in with me and was urging me to get into better financial shape, I would expect practical contributions to the household. If I was only spending 300/month on groceries and he came in and started spending 900/month I'd want thim to understand that he only took $300 worth of pressure off of me, not $900. And maybe at least some of that $300 is being absorbed somewhere else now in costs associated with him being there. If I've been foregoing vacations, taking me on vacation isn't helping either, in fact it's likely to be causing me to spend money I wouldn't have otherwise.
Beergut may be spending quite a bit of money on GF and the children, but not necessarily in a way that makes it easier for to get her shit together while he's living there. It's not right or wrong, but I think it matters since he does live there and he does want her to improve her finances. And I could be way off base with this whole post, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.
beergut, I like how thoughful you seem to be with her children. I raised 2 kids by myself and it's just really nice to "hear" a man speak about his GF's teenage kids with a positive attitude and talk about how they're really good kids. Some good food for thought in your post. My impression has been that before she met me, they didn't do a lot as far as traveling goes. They were a one-income household, and when her money ran out, they waited until the next payday. If an emergency like an auto repair came up and she didn't have the cash, she went to her father for help. My big concern is that because I'm there, she now thinks she can do the things she couldn't afford to do before, and she has champagne tastes. I'm also worried that she thinks I will 'save her' like her daddy did when she made poor decisions, and I want her to understand that there is no Prince Charming in the world, that's just a Disney story. FWIW, when we go on vacation, I pay for everything. I'm usually the one who pushes to go certain places, especially weekend getaways once every few months. She needs time away from the kids, and we need time together.
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Deleted
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Jun 22, 2015 7:34:22 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2015 7:34:22 GMT -5
My point is that Beergut is pushing the GF to go back for more CS. It's possible that GF makes a lot more than ex. Going to court can be a cr*pshoot. I don't know a ton about child support, which is why I ask this question. Would the fact that I live in the house enter into the equation, i.e. why does she needs more CS when she has another employed adult in the house? It would explain why she is hesitant to bring it up with him. In my state, child support is based on both parent's income and they're expected to support the children's basic needs in proportion to their incomes. I'm almost sure it's based on individual income, not household income. But it's been a long time since I've dealt with CS so I could be wrong. The guidelines and the calculations are provided on my state's website. Maybe the information is available online for your state too. A word of caution, you might not want to push too much on the CS issue even though I'm sure you mean well. Unless we were married and you were fully supporting me and my kids (like I didn't work or couldn't take care of us by myself), I'd probably tell you to stay in your lane if you pressed the issue too much. But that's just me, your GF could be totally different.
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Deleted
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Jun 22, 2015 7:35:37 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2015 7:35:37 GMT -5
My point is that Beergut is pushing the GF to go back for more CS. It's possible that GF makes a lot more than ex. Going to court can be a cr*pshoot. I don't know a ton about child support, which is why I ask this question. Would the fact that I live in the house enter into the equation, i.e. why does she needs more CS when she has another employed adult in the house? It would explain why she is hesitant to bring it up with him. Yeah it very well might, even if you're not married. For other support (WIC, food stamps, etc.), the question for qualification is "household income". As in all money coming into the house whether it's a spouse or not. You need to prove completely separate finances to not have to claim that (legally that is, people still do it all the time). So if he brought up you it would probably sway the judge to not just go by the standard calculator spit out with her income.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Jun 22, 2015 7:49:39 GMT -5
I don't know a ton about child support, which is why I ask this question. Would the fact that I live in the house enter into the equation, i.e. why does she needs more CS when she has another employed adult in the house? It would explain why she is hesitant to bring it up with him. In my state, child support is based on both parent's income and they're expected to support the children's basic needs in proportion to their incomes. I'm almost sure it's based on individual income, not household income. But it's been a long time since I've dealt with CS so I could be wrong. The guidelines and the calculations are provided on my state's website. Maybe the information is available online for your state too. A word of caution, you might not want to push too much on the CS issue even though I'm sure you mean well. Unless we were married and you were fully supporting me and my kids (like I didn't work or couldn't take care of us by myself), I'd probably tell you to stay in your lane if you pressed the issue too much. But that's just me, your GF could be totally different. But if he's expected to stay in his lane, shouldn't she also stay in hers and take care of all her kids needs/wants on her own and not be asking him for money? Just my take.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2015 7:51:52 GMT -5
Lets see, if my BF moved in with me and was urging me to get into better financial shape, I would expect practical contributions to the household. If I was only spending 300/month on groceries and he came in and started spending 900/month I'd want thim to understand that he only took $300 worth of pressure off of me, not $900. And maybe at least some of that $300 is being absorbed somewhere else now in costs associated with him being there. If I've been foregoing vacations, taking me on vacation isn't helping either, in fact it's likely to be causing me to spend money I wouldn't have otherwise.
Beergut may be spending quite a bit of money on GF and the children, but not necessarily in a way that makes it easier for to get her shit together while he's living there. It's not right or wrong, but I think it matters since he does live there and he does want her to improve her finances. And I could be way off base with this whole post, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.
beergut, I like how thoughful you seem to be with her children. I raised 2 kids by myself and it's just really nice to "hear" a man speak about his GF's teenage kids with a positive attitude and talk about how they're really good kids. Some good food for thought in your post. My impression has been that before she met me, they didn't do a lot as far as traveling goes. They were a one-income household, and when her money ran out, they waited until the next payday. If an emergency like an auto repair came up and she didn't have the cash, she went to her father for help. My big concern is that because I'm there, she now thinks she can do the things she couldn't afford to do before, and she has champagne tastes. I'm also worried that she thinks I will 'save her' like her daddy did when she made poor decisions, and I want her to understand that there is no Prince Charming in the world, that's just a Disney story. FWIW, when we go on vacation, I pay for everything. I'm usually the one who pushes to go certain places, especially weekend getaways once every few months. She needs time away from the kids, and we need time together. Well, if she's always relied on someone else (her Dad) to bail her out, chances are, she'll kind of expect you to step into that role. It sounds like this is a pattern for her, which is why she thinks it's ok to buy a $200 lamp that blows her account when it goes through and why she thinks it's ok to splurge on clothes and incidentals around the same time that the $200 lamp screws her up. It's ok because she has back-up. I'm starting to think that even if she was embarrassed to keep calling you for money, that wasn't the last time it's going to happen. She has to learn how to manage her affairs so that she doesn't need to be bailed out. Even if you cover weekend getaways, she might still have incidental expenses for things she wouldn't have bought otherwise. Especially if I'm getting a clearer picture of her. Going to a beach, I need a new swimsuit. My old one is old and I wanna look good for my man. Oh, and I need a coverup too. And maybe some flip flops. I need something nice to wear to dinner, something he hasn't seen before since he's taking me out of town. And since he's paying for the trip, I need to plan to do something nice for him while we're away, maybe take him out for a nice lunch or pay for dinner, or something. That is how people with champagne tastes operate and a free vacation isn't always free. I know, because I have champagne tastes too. But I also know I have a beer pocketbook and nobody to bail me out, so that tempers how I handle my champagne-ish ideas. I'm not trying to be negative. It's clear that you care about your GF and her kids. I'm just starting to think that maybe they're some red flags and you need to proceed with caution. I'd hate for your kindness and generosity to be taken advantage of, even if in her mind it's not intentional. It sounds like depending on others to bail her out is all she knows.
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beergut
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Jun 22, 2015 7:59:13 GMT -5
Post by beergut on Jun 22, 2015 7:59:13 GMT -5
They probably are. On the other hand, what are they learning? That a man is the answer to their problems? Especially financial ones. That's great if they ar drop dead gorgeous and they can use that to marry a very rich guy but very rich guys usually protect their money so maybe they benefit until they get traded in for newer models. A man is not a plan. They seem to be athletic. if they are also smart or smart enough to get into college on an athletic scholarship, it'd be a lot better for them to focus on supporting themselves and living within their means. Beer may not be paying his own way but he may well be. Food for 5 people a month could easily be a grand or more. So her buying food is a non issue anymore. But like a lot of people, that savings just gets spent. DH thinks because I live for "free" with him that I should be better off than I was. Part of that is true but most of it isn't. I still think whatever he was spending before supporting himself on his own should be given to her every month. If she is unable to support her kids and herself with that help then she is in deeper doo doo than maybe Beer wants or should deal with. Some people , no matter how much they have, spend every dime. You give them more, they spend more. There's two ways of handling it. Either give her money each month and it should add up to what you spent before moving in or go over every expense she has, utilities, house payment, taxes, insurance, yada yada, and then her income including CS. Figure it out from there. As far as an increase in CS? She makes more money and she has a live in. I wouldn't go there at all. You have something against paragraphs, zib? The 17 yr old already has an IRA set up, and sends money to it every month. It is a way to get her into investing, and a way to make sure she has to keep a healthy balance in her bank account. The 15 yr old constantly asks me for books on investing, and is an avid reader. I think (hope?) they'll both learn to be financially stable from me. GF has admitted to me that money burns a hole in her pocket. I think forced savings in the way of automatic drafts to a savings account might help.
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zibazinski
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Jun 22, 2015 7:59:30 GMT -5
Post by zibazinski on Jun 22, 2015 7:59:30 GMT -5
Double, triple, quadruple amen!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 22, 2015 8:00:54 GMT -5
I know. I write like I talk. Great for my life but not so great for my books. My cousin edits for me, thank GOD.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2015 8:01:03 GMT -5
In my state, child support is based on both parent's income and they're expected to support the children's basic needs in proportion to their incomes. I'm almost sure it's based on individual income, not household income. But it's been a long time since I've dealt with CS so I could be wrong. The guidelines and the calculations are provided on my state's website. Maybe the information is available online for your state too. A word of caution, you might not want to push too much on the CS issue even though I'm sure you mean well. Unless we were married and you were fully supporting me and my kids (like I didn't work or couldn't take care of us by myself), I'd probably tell you to stay in your lane if you pressed the issue too much. But that's just me, your GF could be totally different. But if he's expected to stay in his lane, shouldn't she also stay in hers and take care of all her kids needs/wants on her own and not be asking him for money? Just my take. Yup. I would rather my boyfriend contribute to household expenses or do things for me, than do things directly for my kids. Even if that indirectly lets me spend more on my kids. I don't turn down gifts, but I need to feel like I'm taking care of my own responsibilities. If I don't need your money and I'm not asking for it, I can invite you out of my business. But my way isn't everybody's way and that's why I said his GF could be totally different. AND, this is probably 1 of several reasons I should stay single. My attitude sucks sometimes.
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beergut
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Jun 22, 2015 8:06:18 GMT -5
Post by beergut on Jun 22, 2015 8:06:18 GMT -5
I know. I write like I talk. Great for my life but not so great for my books. My cousin edits for me, thank GOD. I used to do that A LOT. Blogging every day forced me to stop, though. I still occasionally use commas as a place for the reader to catch their breath, though.
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zibazinski
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Gah!!!
Jun 22, 2015 8:09:09 GMT -5
Post by zibazinski on Jun 22, 2015 8:09:09 GMT -5
Heh heh.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Jun 22, 2015 8:10:54 GMT -5
But if he's expected to stay in his lane, shouldn't she also stay in hers and take care of all her kids needs/wants on her own and not be asking him for money? Just my take. Yup. I would rather my boyfriend contribute to household expenses or do things for me, than do things directly for my kids. Even if that indirectly lets me spend more on my kids. I don't turn down gifts, but I need to feel like I'm taking care of my own responsibilities. If I don't need your money and I'm not asking for it, I can invite you out of my business. But my way isn't everybody's way and that's why I said his GF could be totally different. AND, this is probably 1 of several reasons I should stay single. My attitude sucks sometimes. I am this same way. And it IS one of several reasons I stay single. I want to be able to walk away if I had to with no strings attached. It is also one of the many reasons why I don't date men with kids. I have enough to deal with for my own kids. I don't want to deal with anyone else's.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 22, 2015 8:13:22 GMT -5
But if he's expected to stay in his lane, shouldn't she also stay in hers and take care of all her kids needs/wants on her own and not be asking him for money? Just my take. Yup. I would rather my boyfriend contribute to household expenses or do things for me, than do things directly for my kids. Even if that indirectly lets me spend more on my kids. I don't turn down gifts, but I need to feel like I'm taking care of my own responsibilities. If I don't need your money and I'm not asking for it, I can invite you out of my business. But my way isn't everybody's way and that's why I said his GF could be totally different. AND, this is probably 1 of several reasons I should stay single. My attitude sucks sometimes. No, you have self respect and are not dependent on anyone but yourself. It's speaks well of your character.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 22, 2015 9:26:03 GMT -5
Substitute Beer for Daddy and Bingo, we have a winner!!! Daddy must be grateful.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jun 22, 2015 11:15:46 GMT -5
I don't think this is the way to go in a relationship. And for me, if I was trying to make some fundamental changes due to the requests of an SO, and in the process of making those changes, I had a misstep and needed to request help on an emergency basis - and then someone thought it was a good idea to try to make me feel worse than I already did? that would not go over well with me. Are these emergency situations, though? I know when we moved into our house we HAD to go and buy a lamp that day. Our house is a 70's house, where there were no light fixtures in the bedrooms. We had 4 bedrooms and three lamps. Actually, we still need to get better lighting...but I keep putting it off because we can make due. I'm also wondering how over spending on incidentals is an emergency. When we go on vacation, we do have a fairly strict budget. The only time, really, in the past decade that I've been surprised by an extra cost is during BILs wedding. But, that was $50. And it was my own fault because I didn't read. To me, these are different than what I would consider unplanned expenses..like the head gaskets going on my car, having unplanned necessary surgery, or even phase two of braces being moved up by 2 years and given no notice about that. Even these, I have not called emergencies..
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jun 22, 2015 11:30:29 GMT -5
if you plan well enough there are no emergencies.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Jun 22, 2015 13:12:39 GMT -5
Tread carefully, beergut. Even if she is trying to become more financially responsible, she's not there yet. I dated DH for 6 years before I married him and I wouldn't have even thought of expecting him to foot the bill for DS' needs and wants. (DS was 12 when DH and I started dating.) He was my spawn, I brought him into the world (along with a bio dad who turned out to be totally irresponsible in the end), I saw no reason for a guy I was dating to help support him. (He bought reasonable Christmas and birthday presents or brought over a pizza or cooked dinner sometimes.)
And where is the bio Dad of these kids? How come YOU're sending them to camp and paying for extras? Who let Bio Dad off the hook? Bio Dad is something of a bone of contention. He pays child support, but the payment is based off their agreement years ago, and I don't think it has fluctuated at all. I mentioned before that my brother recently got divorced. He has joint custody of his daughter, but she lives with his ex part of the week. He pays child support, and what he pays for his daughter is more than what Bio Dad pays for his three kids combined. Bio Dad has never missed a child support payment, which is the only positive I'll give him. Other than that, he is almost completely absent. He sees the kids maybe two or three times a year, usually on Christmas, Thanksgiving, and if one of them or he has a birthday, he'll do something. IMO, a lot of his visitation with his kids is driven by his parents (the paternal grandparents) or if he has a girlfriend who doesn't want to believe she is dating a shyte father, so she makes him spend time with his kids. When I told GF she needs to tell Bio Dad he needs to up his child support, she balked at that suggestion. She said he whines every time a medical bill comes up, and he has to pay his part, so he wouldn't go in for paying more in support.
Unfortunately, the kids think he is a great father. Since he is the only dad they've ever known, they have no idea what it is like to have a father who is actively involved in their lives. And these kids are awesome. He's an idiot who is missing out. I've told GF this several times. I've already seen several messages from them to their father since today is Father's Day. It is heartbreaking when you think about it. I don't know what she does with the child support every month, I'm assuming she spends it on stuff for the kids. She said she has made a spreadsheet of her whole budget so she can show me where all of her money goes, so we need to sit down and look at it. This was a conversation we had just before she left on vacation. So what if he balks? Take him back and up it.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Jun 22, 2015 13:14:51 GMT -5
My point is that Beergut is pushing the GF to go back for more CS. It's possible that GF makes a lot more than ex. Going to court can be a cr*pshoot. I don't know a ton about child support, which is why I ask this question. Would the fact that I live in the house enter into the equation, i.e. why does she needs more CS when she has another employed adult in the house? It would explain why she is hesitant to bring it up with him. because it's not your responsibility to pay for them, it's the parents'.
Your income isn't a factor
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zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 22, 2015 13:20:12 GMT -5
As long as he doesn't marry her. But her ex could bring up to the judge there's a boyfriend living there. That raises questions.
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swamp
Community Leader
THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,617
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Post by swamp on Jun 22, 2015 13:24:48 GMT -5
As long as he doesn't marry her. But her ex could bring up to the judge there's a boyfriend living there. That raises questions. No, not really.
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zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
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Gah!!!
Jun 22, 2015 13:27:45 GMT -5
Post by zibazinski on Jun 22, 2015 13:27:45 GMT -5
In some states it does. Both Michigan, Oregon, and Florida have cohabitation rules. When there are minor children.
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