EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Apr 29, 2015 23:01:19 GMT -5
Makes sense- facing the fear of jail time for having a knife why wouldn't a 25yo ram their head into metal until he severed his own spine
But hey- that excuses the police for not belting him in per policy I guess.........The cop union is already all over that issue. He was probably on purple drank- case closed.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Apr 29, 2015 23:03:44 GMT -5
Baltimore has fired cops before. It's not unheard of. I just think you should let it play out first. If it plays out and you don't like it and protest okay. If you try to burn the town down before they get a chance to find out how it happened then you get zero support from me. All I'm seeing is a bunch of thugs causing problems. Firing them is one thing, but they killed someone. Not passively, not by mistake, maybe thinking they'd get close and he'd live, but they did it. Just getting fired and banned from police work forever seems insufficient punishment for a 6 versus 1 situation.
If an ambulance driver/EMT pair did a rough ride on a patient and transported him so roughly he died, do you think it would have taken anywhere near this time to charge them? Being fired would be the least of it. They might be banned from healthcare and serving jail time.
I don't approve of them causing problems, but I understand it. They are protesting because it is already obvious that justice will not play out in their favor. If at least one of these cops goes to jail for man slaughter, I'll be shocked but heartened. The Boston bomber is getting life sentences for people he killed. If the cop who killed BMW guy gets a similar life sentence my belief in the justice system will be restored somewhat. The cop who riddled the black guy in the car with an overkill of bullets also avoided all man slaughter charges.
The cop who shot the guy who ran, I don't think he'll get a life sentence. I'm not a lawyer, but I think in order to get life you have to have first degree murder, I think the most that cop could be charged with is second degree murder.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Apr 29, 2015 23:04:52 GMT -5
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 29, 2015 23:56:50 GMT -5
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 30, 2015 8:00:34 GMT -5
Oh, crap.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Apr 30, 2015 8:11:54 GMT -5
I am wondering about this story and its timing. April 12th was the arrest, April 19th he died. Today is April 30th, day nineteen from when it all started. Why is this story released now, not before the funeral?
It is possible, it is also possible it is a cover story the prisoner is telling in return for reduced sentence.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 30, 2015 8:12:59 GMT -5
Could be. Makes sense. Hopefully the truth will come out.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Apr 30, 2015 8:13:26 GMT -5
It is the best they were able to come up with after stonewalling for two weeks.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Apr 30, 2015 8:21:15 GMT -5
Firing them is one thing, but they killed someone. Not passively, not by mistake, maybe thinking they'd get close and he'd live, but they did it. Just getting fired and banned from police work forever seems insufficient punishment for a 6 versus 1 situation.
If an ambulance driver/EMT pair did a rough ride on a patient and transported him so roughly he died, do you think it would have taken anywhere near this time to charge them? Being fired would be the least of it. They might be banned from healthcare and serving jail time.
I don't approve of them causing problems, but I understand it. They are protesting because it is already obvious that justice will not play out in their favor. If at least one of these cops goes to jail for man slaughter, I'll be shocked but heartened. The Boston bomber is getting life sentences for people he killed. If the cop who killed BMW guy gets a similar life sentence my belief in the justice system will be restored somewhat. The cop who riddled the black guy in the car with an overkill of bullets also avoided all man slaughter charges.
The cop who shot the guy who ran, I don't think he'll get a life sentence. I'm not a lawyer, but I think in order to get life you have to have first degree murder, I think the most that cop could be charged with is second degree murder. You may be right. It is ironic? that how our laws are written is depending on how & when you kill the guy greatly influences the sentence. Chasing and then killing someone as you correctly state, is not murder one. We learned that from the Trayvon trial.
The Boston bomber set a trap and who he killed and injured was random. He received death sentences because of premeditation? The theatre shooting stuff is still in progress. What versions of murder/man slaughter will they be considered?
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on May 1, 2015 11:50:18 GMT -5
Well, turns out 6 officers will be charged with second degree murder or manslaughter.
So was all that rioting and violence worth it? I think it's obvious it wasn't.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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They killed Kenny, the bastards.
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on May 1, 2015 12:21:12 GMT -5
This morning the ME's report came out and declared it a homicide. Shortly after the SA (just elected in Jan) charged 6 officers. She had been investigating since day one.
Baltimore is not like Ferguson.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on May 1, 2015 12:27:15 GMT -5
Well, turns out 6 officers will be charged with second degree murder or manslaughter. So was all that rioting and violence worth it? I think it's obvious it wasn't. George Zimmer was charged, he was let go. OJ was charged, he was let go. They smell justice not being served and they may be right. Without the riots would they have been charged?
The defense cover story finally came out, beating the press conference for charges. Coincidence or sign?
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ken a.k.a OMK
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They killed Kenny, the bastards.
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on May 1, 2015 13:42:22 GMT -5
I believe the riots had nothing to do with charging them. The SA was investigating since day one, just waiting for the ME's report.
The looters are also subject to charges.
Let the system work, and in Baltimore we law abiding citizens proved it does work.
Congressman Elijah Cummings, who is from the looted area, said this is a national problem but praised our SA for doing her job quickly.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on May 1, 2015 15:10:25 GMT -5
Well, turns out 6 officers will be charged with second degree murder or manslaughter. So was all that rioting and violence worth it? I think it's obvious it wasn't. George Zimmer was charged, he was let go. OJ was charged, he was let go. They smell justice not being served and they may be right. Without the riots would they have been charged?
The defense cover story finally came out, beating the press conference for charges. Coincidence or sign?
What's your definition of justice? You do realize that if the burden of proof is not met, the accused is squirted. Is your definition of justice where the accused always gets convicted. I certainly hope the riots didn't influence the decision. I fear some may think it has and use it as justification in the future.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on May 1, 2015 15:14:51 GMT -5
It'll be interesting to see what happens. Lingering questions remain.
I hear a lot of rhetoric about this being a national problem, and how there needs to be reform, but no real specifics
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 1, 2015 15:34:03 GMT -5
Well, there's either the evidence or there isn't. Public spectacles shouldn't change that. I think charges were brought to placate the criminals that were rioting. It'll be interesting if the cops are found not guilty because there isn't enough evidence to support the charge, if the criminals will start rioting again. Pretty soon, only black cops will be hired to patrol black neighborhoods. That ought to be fun. But that's the way we're headed. Two black cops shot a black woman but not much reporting on that. Black on black shooting is okay? Is that where we're headed?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on May 1, 2015 15:39:39 GMT -5
... Two black cops shot a black woman but not much reporting on that. ... Googled "woman shot back of police car". I got "About 49,000,000 results (0.32 seconds)".
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 1, 2015 15:42:07 GMT -5
Well, turns out 6 officers will be charged with second degree murder or manslaughter. So was all that rioting and violence worth it? I think it's obvious it wasn't. i don't think that question has any meaning.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on May 1, 2015 15:42:37 GMT -5
... It'll be interesting if the cops are found not guilty because there isn't enough evidence to support the charge, ... It would be more interesting if the cops were found not guilty because they didn't kill the guy. It would just be the same old, same old to me if "there isn't enough evidence."
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ken a.k.a OMK
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They killed Kenny, the bastards.
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on May 1, 2015 15:50:54 GMT -5
Hey money gets good lawyers who get guilty people off. OJ got away with 2 murders. Not going to be like that here. Wait for the system to work.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on May 1, 2015 16:07:43 GMT -5
Well, there's either the evidence or there isn't. Public spectacles shouldn't change that. I think charges were brought to placate the criminals that were rioting. It'll be interesting if the cops are found not guilty because there isn't enough evidence to support the charge, if the criminals will start rioting again. Pretty soon, only black cops will be hired to patrol black neighborhoods. That ought to be fun. But that's the way we're headed. Two black cops shot a black woman but not much reporting on that. Black on black shooting is okay? Is that where we're headed? Current thread along with a news link. Woman fatally shot in back of Atlanta police car
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Robert not Bobby
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Post by Robert not Bobby on May 1, 2015 16:17:30 GMT -5
The DA is a little tender in ears and a little "over the top" in accusations: she may have been playing to an audience with expectations, and her husband is a city Councillor.
But let the legal process take its course.
I still believe in our Justice System...75% of the time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2015 20:29:39 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2015 20:36:31 GMT -5
Wait for the system to work. Some folks have been waiting a long time for that and it doesn't seem to have been happening. I was really surprised to see how many black men die at the hands of the police, or in police custody.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2015 20:38:54 GMT -5
I think charges were brought to placate the criminals that were rioting. What evidence do you have of that? The ME declared it a homicide. Only the police officers were in a position to commit that homicide. Why wouldn't you charge them?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2015 20:41:39 GMT -5
Pretty soon, only black cops will be hired to patrol black neighborhoods. It's so sad that we can't be secure that white cops can be trusted to not kill black men on a whim.
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kent
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Post by kent on May 1, 2015 20:48:10 GMT -5
I wasn't going to chime in on the issue of whether or not Gray hurt himself but I will given there are more than a few people that find that totally implausible.
In another life, in a galaxy far away, as part of my job I was involved in the apprehension and transfer (as driver) of unruly individuals. Some of them were VERY violent while being transported and a few actually exited the vehicle bleeding from fairly significant cuts on their head that weren't there when they were apprehended. So, it's "possible" he did it himself. I have to say "possible" because I wasn't there.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2015 20:55:03 GMT -5
Pretty soon, only black cops will be hired to patrol black neighborhoods. It's so sad that we can't be secure that white cops can be trusted to not kill black men on a whim. If your statement is true I guess we now know that black cops can't be trusted not to kill black men on a whim either.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on May 1, 2015 21:06:52 GMT -5
Hey money gets good lawyers who get guilty people off. OJ got away with 2 murders. Not going to be like that here. Wait for the system to work. Ken, you are right about the money. I have a feeling the cops will have decent lawyers. Probably less green than the prosecutor.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on May 1, 2015 21:20:34 GMT -5
George Zimmer was charged, he was let go. OJ was charged, he was let go. They smell justice not being served and they may be right. Without the riots would they have been charged?
The defense cover story finally came out, beating the press conference for charges. Coincidence or sign?
What's your definition of justice? You do realize that if the burden of proof is not met, the accused is squirted. Is your definition of justice where the accused always gets convicted. I certainly hope the riots didn't influence the decision. I fear some may think it has and use it as justification in the future. I'm just pointing out that people who are guilty often go free. I just wish justice meant you didn't have a 99% chance of going free versus a 1% chance of being convicted if you murdered someone. (Numbers totally made up FWIW.)
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