finnime
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Post by finnime on Feb 10, 2015 13:11:33 GMT -5
That is awful, finnime. I'm so sorry. Did your employer give a reason for the termination? Seems like they could be on shaky legal grounds if you just yesterday asked for FML and your boss was amenable. (Really demonstrates the dual definition of FML, too...) Reason given is job performance, which I do and do not understand. I'm not up to par for me, but -medical leave is protected, I think. I thought. They (HR was there, too) did say they'd pay me through the end of the month, and not contest (!!) unemployment claims. I can't file for UI right now; I'm not able to work, truly. I did start the filing for FML/STD process. Right to work = right to fire?
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Feb 10, 2015 13:11:47 GMT -5
Did termination come from the boss, a higher up or HR? I'm guessing not HR because, well, they'd likely not accept the FML stuff if they were involved. But I could be wrong.
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finnime
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Post by finnime on Feb 10, 2015 13:19:13 GMT -5
He terminated me. HR was there (on the phone - they're in another state). But it was all on him. I did say that I had informed him yesterday of my health issues, to which he agreed. And I also said I would be filing for FML/STD. Still reeling, there's such an unreal quality to it all.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Feb 10, 2015 13:31:46 GMT -5
Did you have any warning talks about job performance? Or suggestions that you need to work better? Anything?
I work for local gov't so we've always had to have a crap ton of documentation and having "soft" one on one meetings with the immediate supervisor. It could literally be YEARS before it ever got to the HR write up and the formal discussion of how to improve things. I know, I was the one stuck doing documentation and the soft meetings for 2 of the people I supervised. I ended up with an ulcer from it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2015 13:32:20 GMT -5
Oh wow. I don't know what to say. I'm sorry finnime.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 10, 2015 13:41:54 GMT -5
Did you ever receive a write up or a Personal Improvement Plan? Here they have to file a write up/disciplinary notice that lists all the reasons why you are being considered for termination and give you so much time to improve and I have a right to contest it with HR.
There are violations that result in immediate termination and if you are in your probation period it's fair game to fire you without reason. But for the majority there is a process that has to be followed before termination can happen.
I agree with Mid they may be on shaky legal ground with your termination coming on the heels of you confessing you are depressed and on medication.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Feb 10, 2015 13:44:39 GMT -5
sounds like grounds for a lawsuit, especially if it came without any warning about your declining job performance and the day after you ask for time off. You may not have the energy to do this yourself, so if you have a good friend or close family member you can trust, please reach out to them and ask them to help you find a lawyer who can take your case pro bono.
(lawyers on here, please let me know if what I'm suggesting is wrong!)
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Feb 10, 2015 13:48:32 GMT -5
<HUGS>
So sorry your company is apparently run by heartless jerks. Go ahead & fight for your FML/STD!
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 10, 2015 13:51:23 GMT -5
If you don't want to call a lawyer the DOL has a "ask a question" box on their web site. You can post what happened there and ask if you may have a wrongful termination case. Worst they can say is no.
They were helpful when I inquired about how DH's former employer handled FMLA leave for him. Turned out I was right, they what they were doing was totally illegal, but DH chose not to pursue a case.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 10, 2015 14:03:01 GMT -5
Another thing, if it is not too late get the agreement that they won't contest unemployment in writing. DH had an employer do that, turns out it was lip service to get him to leave quietly. When he went to actually file they contested it immediately.
He contacted the DOL, got a wrongful termination suit going and won.
Be aware and be prepared. Don't just take their word for it. Their actions after you opened up about your problems clearly demonstrates they aren't to be trusted. Paper trail paper trail paper trail.
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finnime
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Post by finnime on Feb 10, 2015 14:30:14 GMT -5
Another thing, if it is not too late get the agreement that they won't contest unemployment in writing. DH had an employer do that, turns out it was lip service to get him to leave quietly. When he went to actually file they contested it immediately.
He contacted the DOL, got a wrongful termination suit going and won.
Be aware and be prepared. Don't just take their word for it. Their actions after you opened up about your problems clearly demonstrates they aren't to be trusted. Paper trail paper trail paper trail. Thanks for the tips, NomoreDramaQ1015. We had one talk last week about my performance not being all it should. He proposed that I look through pending/planned projects and identify some to pick up. I did that. Yesterday I acknowledged a health issue that required stabilizing, and that was exacerbated by stress. He seemed to take that well. Then at midnight he sent me a meeting request for 10:30 a.m. Then we met, and he terminated me. Did you know this physically hurts? Like I've been whacked with a 2 x 4.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Feb 10, 2015 14:35:06 GMT -5
Did he acknowledge the response to the pending projects pickup? (Say that 3x fast...) Because if he did, then that could be interpreted as working with you. Did you have any glaring mistakes/missed deadlines between then and yesterday? If not, what time zone is HR in? Because a midnight email suggests to me a late conference call with someone in a different time zone.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 10, 2015 14:36:59 GMT -5
I understand.
I got terminated from a job out of the blue as well. They had some valid points but they way they handled it was completely inappropriate. if I had wanted to push it I could have made a case against them terminating me but I decided fighting it would hurt me more than it hurt them so I left with my tail between my legs.
It was really upsetting, embarrassing and hurtful.
Take a deep breath and start gathering what you need to document the events surrounding your termination. Demand any promises in writing and keep those in your file. When it comes time to file for unemployment you want to be as prepared as possible in case they go back on their word.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Feb 10, 2015 14:39:28 GMT -5
And again, I'm really sorry you're going though this.
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finnime
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Post by finnime on Feb 10, 2015 15:00:15 GMT -5
Did he acknowledge the response to the pending projects pickup? YES Because if he did, then that could be interpreted as working with you. Did you have any glaring mistakes/missed deadlines between then and yesterday? NO If not, what time zone is HR in? Central Time, vs. Eastern Time. Because a midnight email suggests to me a late conference call with someone in a different time zone. I think maybe he decided he'd rather just get me gone than be concerned with me taking medical leave.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Feb 10, 2015 15:04:05 GMT -5
Did he acknowledge the response to the pending projects pickup? YES Because if he did, then that could be interpreted as working with you. Did you have any glaring mistakes/missed deadlines between then and yesterday? NO If not, what time zone is HR in? Central Time, vs. Eastern Time. Because a midnight email suggests to me a late conference call with someone in a different time zone. I think maybe he decided he'd rather just get me gone than be concerned with me taking medical leave. Or he'd had a chance to think about what having you on FMLA would mean for him - more paperwork and addressing your workload (I keep channeling that Barriers to Women thread today [sorry about that]) I think you should follow Drama's link to the DOL website and see if you have a case.
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finnime
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Post by finnime on Feb 10, 2015 15:05:22 GMT -5
I understand.
I got terminated from a job out of the blue as well. They had some valid points but they way they handled it was completely inappropriate. if I had wanted to push it I could have made a case against them terminating me but I decided fighting it would hurt me more than it hurt them so I left with my tail between my legs.
It was really upsetting, embarrassing and hurtful.
Take a deep breath and start gathering what you need to document the events surrounding your termination. Demand any promises in writing and keep those in your file. When it comes time to file for unemployment you want to be as prepared as possible in case they go back on their word.
It is upsetting, embarrassing and hurtful. Tomorrow - tomorrow I'll put documentation together. Have an appointment with my shrink. Get moving. Today, not. A very long time ago (20 years) I was working for a company that went bankrupt overnight on December 31. Hundreds of us, instantly unemployed. That was tough - awful; I was the primary breadwinner, and the company was moving us up to its headquarters. But bad as it was, we banded together and supported one another in finding new jobs, getting settled, moving on with our lives. This today is just being scraped raw.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 10, 2015 15:08:05 GMT -5
Unfortunately you do have to be careful when taking leave even for a medical reason unrelated to pregnancy. DH had a co-worker who had a broken foot and was out for the 12 weeks. When she got back all of a sudden she could do nothing right and every little thing was being documented.
After she'd been back long enough for them to not be accused of firing her for using FMLA they brought her into the office and told her they were terminating her employment due to her performance and oh by the way here's the documentation showing we have proof to terminate you.
So you could have a case fin but the hard part is proving it. I suggest again you go to the DOL's web site and contact them to see if you have a case for wrongful termination. If you do then they will be able to advise you on what you need to do to make your case.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 10, 2015 15:09:06 GMT -5
This today is just being scraped raw.
FWIW we're all here for you. Since you'll now be job hunting feel free to come over to the Job Hunt thread. I've found everyone there very supportive and encouraging.
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CarolinaKat
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Post by CarolinaKat on Feb 10, 2015 15:20:46 GMT -5
Did you ever receive a write up or a Personal Improvement Plan? Here they have to file a write up/disciplinary notice that lists all the reasons why you are being considered for termination and give you so much time to improve and I have a right to contest it with HR.
There are violations that result in immediate termination and if you are in your probation period it's fair game to fire you without reason. But for the majority there is a process that has to be followed before termination can happen.
I agree with Mid they may be on shaky legal ground with your termination coming on the heels of you confessing you are depressed and on medication.
If she's eligible for FML wouldn't this mean she's out of a probation period? So sorry for everything finnime
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finnime
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Post by finnime on Feb 10, 2015 15:30:57 GMT -5
I've been with this employer for over 4 years. So probation is N/A.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Feb 10, 2015 15:37:56 GMT -5
Did you ever receive a write up or a Personal Improvement Plan? Here they have to file a write up/disciplinary notice that lists all the reasons why you are being considered for termination and give you so much time to improve and I have a right to contest it with HR.
There are violations that result in immediate termination and if you are in your probation period it's fair game to fire you without reason. But for the majority there is a process that has to be followed before termination can happen.
I agree with Mid they may be on shaky legal ground with your termination coming on the heels of you confessing you are depressed and on medication.
If she's eligible for FML wouldn't this mean she's out of a probation period? So sorry for everything finnimeI took Drama's comment to be the general you/your and not specific to finnime's. Probably because that's my normal.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 10, 2015 15:41:06 GMT -5
Yeah it was a general there are exceptions. I didn't want anyone to see my post and things dissolve into "Well in MY state or well at MY employer . ". So I figured I'd cover my bases.
It takes a lot to get fired without any kind of warning around here. Even then I'd argue if you did something dumb enough to warrant immediate termination you are probably aware of why they called you in the office.
The fact that fin has never been given any disciplinary notices or a PIP and was terminated mere hours after she requested a week's leave is fishy.
Could they have grounds she isn't aware of? Probably I am sure they have covered their butts. But it's still worth looking into and calling the DOL. Especially since this could affect her getting unemployment. You at least want them to know you'll fight hard enough that it wouldn't be worth their time to contest it.
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finnime
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Post by finnime on Feb 10, 2015 16:03:31 GMT -5
Could they have grounds she isn't aware of? Probably I am sure they have covered their butts. But it's still worth looking into and calling the DOL. Especially since this could affect her getting unemployment. You at least want them to know you'll fight hard enough that it wouldn't be worth their time to contest it.
I will give them a call. There is no down side that I can see. I don't think there is grounds here legally for termination, but at my age have seen enough to know that the law doesn't really forestall anything. After the fact it can be used, but as you noted, NomoreDramaQ1015, there is often a hard fight that is not worth the ends. Right now, for me, sustaining the energy for a job hunt is daunting. I want to hide under my bed!
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Feb 10, 2015 16:13:59 GMT -5
He terminated me. HR was there (on the phone - they're in another state). But it was all on him. I did say that I had informed him yesterday of my health issues, to which he agreed. And I also said I would be filing for FML/STD. Still reeling, there's such an unreal quality to it all. That's terrible!!
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Feb 10, 2015 16:17:35 GMT -5
Could they have grounds she isn't aware of? Probably I am sure they have covered their butts. But it's still worth looking into and calling the DOL. Especially since this could affect her getting unemployment. You at least want them to know you'll fight hard enough that it wouldn't be worth their time to contest it.
I will give them a call. There is no down side that I can see. I don't think there is grounds here legally for termination, but at my age have seen enough to know that the law doesn't really forestall anything. After the fact it can be used, but as you noted, NomoreDramaQ1015, there is often a hard fight that is not worth the ends. Right now, for me, sustaining the energy for a job hunt is daunting. I want to hide under my bed! Could you explain the situation to them? There is no reason not too at this point.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 10, 2015 16:20:36 GMT -5
Right now, for me, sustaining the energy for a job hunt is daunting. I want to hide under my bed
There is no need to start job hunting right this second. Go ahead and allow yourself some time to wallow. If you feel you must look at the calendar and circle a date. That's the date you stop hiding under the bed and start applying.
Unless you can't afford to pay your bills you can take a week or two to process what just happened before you throw yourself back into the shark infested waters of the job market.
And as far as fighting, if they do attempt to block your unemployment claim it is absolutely worth fighting over. DH fought over that and won, unemployment is too important to "turn the other cheek" over.
I didn't fight because I didn't stand to gain very much, they would have just found another reason to fire me. If they had attempted to mess with me though after employment was terminated the gloves would have come off.
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plugginaway22
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Post by plugginaway22 on Feb 10, 2015 22:50:06 GMT -5
Oh no, I am just reading this! So so, sorry that they did this to you. Unbelievable. As awful as it sounds, you having an extended 'break' while collecting Unempl benefits might be helpful. Can you handle that financially for the time being? Again, I am so sorry!
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lurkyloo
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Post by lurkyloo on Feb 11, 2015 0:25:42 GMT -5
So very sorry to hear this. I believe Drama has a 2x4 that may come in handy while YMOT "explains" things to your former supervisor...and I've heard rumors that EE has a freezer More seriously, I think you absolutely have some legal options here if you want to pursue them. Definitely take some time to absorb things first--and we're always here as a sounding board.
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CarolinaKat
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Post by CarolinaKat on Feb 11, 2015 7:52:46 GMT -5
So very sorry to hear this. I believe Drama has a 2x4 that may come in handy while YMOT "explains" things to your former supervisor...and I've heard rumors that EE has a freezer More seriously, I think you absolutely have some legal options here if you want to pursue them. Definitely take some time to absorb things first--and we're always here as a sounding board. We're currently hiding bodies in Alaska while The Home 6 is still there so we can have plenty of frEEzer space when she gets back. I'm sure no one can find the supervisor in the frozen tundra
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