Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jan 24, 2015 11:57:05 GMT -5
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jan 24, 2015 13:54:41 GMT -5
I think it's great to help girls do better in school, but maybe somewhere along the way the boys were forgotten about; or maybe people didn't realize (while some didn't care) that some of those same types of programs could benefit boys too.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 24, 2015 14:02:04 GMT -5
It would be interesting to look at numbers within numbers. What is the percentage of males going into high paying academic and vocational fields compared to women doing the same.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 24, 2015 16:56:27 GMT -5
Maybe girls are just smarter.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 17:34:03 GMT -5
Maybe they are over medicated.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 24, 2015 18:21:55 GMT -5
Maybe girls are just smarter. Whites attend college at higher rates than non whites, are white people just smarter too? There are more whites than non-whites in the US. Maybe that could have something to do with it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 18:44:43 GMT -5
People may hate to hear it, but... boys are not the same as girls. The educational system that was (they say) so bad for teaching girls was actually pretty good at teaching boys. Maybe we shouldn't have screwed it up for the boys when it was "fixed" for the girls.
While I wouldn't want "boys only" and "girls only" schools to be the norm, maybe we should have "boys only" and "girls only" classes (at least for "the three 'R's", as they're called)... each structured for the way it's specific gender learns best.
I also agree that over-medicating the boys to make them "not be active, rambunctious, aggressive boys" is another part of the problem.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 18:46:53 GMT -5
Whites attend college at higher rates than non whites, are white people just smarter too? There are more whites than non-whites in the US. Maybe that could have something to do with it. Not straight numbers... Percentages. Of population.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 18:48:07 GMT -5
People may hate to hear it, but... boys are not the same as girls. The educational system that was (they say) so bad for teaching girls was actually pretty good at teaching boys. Maybe we shouldn't have screwed it up for the boys when it was "fixed" for the girls. While I wouldn't want "boys only" and "girls only" schools to be the norm, maybe we should have "boys only" and "girls only" classes (at least for "the three 'R's", as they're called)... each structured for the way it's specific gender learns best. I also agree that over-medicating the boys to make them "not be active, rambunctious, aggressive boys" is another part of the problem. I just read Boys adrift, and the author was amazed when he investigated all boy schools... How much better boys did at them... How many went from meds to not needing meds...
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 24, 2015 19:14:21 GMT -5
There are more whites than non-whites in the US. Maybe that could have something to do with it. Not straight numbers... Percentages. Of population. Whites make up a larger percentage of the US population.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 19:29:21 GMT -5
Sigh. Statistics weren't your strong suit, huh.
if 40% of whites 25-29 get at least a bachelors degree, and only 20% of black people the same age have done so... It doesn't matter what the total numbers are... Fewer blacks, as a function of their population, are attaining higher degrees.
Ie. If you have 1000 white people and 100 black people, 400 white people and 40 black people with higher degrees among them would be equal rates of accomplishment. However, the results would be 400 white people with degrees and 20 black people with degrees... Not equal rates of attainment.
Girls didn't used to get degrees at higher rates. In 2000 or so it was about equal... Now girls are pulling ahead.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 19:30:44 GMT -5
I was surprised when I looked up. PA keystone tests to see that girls were now higher percentage of advanced than boys for algebra 1... The only math available. Boys were still slightly higher in Biology.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jan 24, 2015 20:42:15 GMT -5
Maybe girls are just smarter. There was a time when people said the same thing in reverse for boys vs girls. Of course those people are just called sexist or misogynistic. Some even argued that saying that was lowering the expectation for women, which in turn caused them to have lower test grades. Interesting the same logic isn't applied both ways.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 24, 2015 21:07:03 GMT -5
My friends who went to same gender schools absolutely loved them. I wish I could have given that experience to both my kids. I wished I'd had it for myself.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 21:19:59 GMT -5
Maybe girls are just smarter. There was a time when people said the same thing in reverse for boys vs girls. Of course those people are just called sexist or misogynistic. Some even argued that saying that was lower the expectation for women, which in turn caused them to have lower test grades. Interesting the same logic isn't applied both ways. I "liked" this post, but I don't so much find it "interesting" as I find it "sad".
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jan 25, 2015 10:13:34 GMT -5
There was a time when people said the same thing in reverse for boys vs girls. Of course those people are just called sexist or misogynistic. Some even argued that saying that was lower the expectation for women, which in turn caused them to have lower test grades. Interesting the same logic isn't applied both ways. I "liked" this post, but I don't so much find it "interesting" as I find it "sad". It is sad. If people say boys are smarter, it is hurting girls' self-esteem and sexist...but saying girl are smarter is perfectly acceptable. Men outnumber women in college, there is need for multiple programs to "fix" the issue...but when the situation is reversed, it doesn't seem to be a big concern. Boys doing better in math and sciences requires multiple programs to help girls succeed, but even when that no longer appears to be the case, these programs still continue and there doesn't really seem to be a concern. There is definitely a double standard...
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 25, 2015 10:32:02 GMT -5
Girls have enough issues with self esteem. Academically, they probably are smarter because their brains area are wired to learn the way things are taught in school. That doesn't mean boys are dumb and can't learn.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 10:48:01 GMT -5
Girls have enough issues with self esteem. Academically, they probably are smarter because their brains area are wired to learn the way things are taught in school. That doesn't mean boys are dumb and can't learn. At best that means girls are more likely to perform well in current school environment... Not that they are smarter.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 25, 2015 10:56:14 GMT -5
Oddly enough, when I was growing up, school and learning was totally geared toward boys and their learning. Girls managed to learn in spite of this bias.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 10:59:40 GMT -5
Oddly enough, when I was growing up, school and learning was totally geared toward boys and their learning. Girls managed to learn in spite of this bias. Actually, no, at least not in maths and sciences, and fewer girls went to college...
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 25, 2015 11:01:16 GMT -5
Fewer anybody went to college. Now college is equivalent to having a high school degree.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Jan 25, 2015 11:17:07 GMT -5
Girls are most able to stick to something with more routine like sitting and reading that aren't exciting. Boys seem to need to get it done sooner. All kids are impatient and want to get into a career or whatever they are going to do sooner than later. When I was in school boys dropped out to go work at a gas station or some other low paid work because they wanted the money. Girls wanted to get married and have kids the minute they were done with high school but less likely to drop out for a job. Some has to be expectations. We were taught for example that girls would be teachers, nurses, secretaries, dental hygienist, bookkeepers and boys would be doctors, lawyers, accountants or have a union trade. Now what are kids being told they can/should do? I see girls wanting to be fashion designers, vets or other things requiring college more than boys, girls seem to want to go to a passion not just earn a living so put up with years of college. Maybe boys know they can make a living without college where girls think they need it. A boy can be an auto mechanic or truck driver without investing 4 years or more in college. Too many kids have no direction so end up working at fast food until they are well past college age.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 25, 2015 11:29:16 GMT -5
Plus there still is an stigma to a trade school. In fact you are totally separated from regular high school kids if you go to one. My old school system, vocational high schools were for dummies and behavior problems. How stupid is that? So kids that wanted to go there were discouraged by having to go to school with kids who didn't even want to be in school. Contrast that to when schools expected that very few kids would go on to college. My uncle who graduated high school in the fifties was prepared to be an apprentice welder, electrician, or plumber. He also could work on cars. He not only had a good paying job all his life but was a very useful man to have around. At age 78, he is putting in a wood floor for me. He's healthy because he's active and always has been. He went to a regular high school, played football, and was in the band where he met my aunt.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 25, 2015 11:36:05 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 12:31:30 GMT -5
Or maybe boys and girls are equally smart but excel in different areas. I read about a school recently that went to all girl and all boy classrooms and showed no difference in performance. I can't remember the specifics though or where it was or where I read it .
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 25, 2015 12:59:40 GMT -5
Or maybe boys and girls are equally smart but excel in different areas. I read about a school recently that went to all girl and all boy classrooms and showed no difference in performance. I can't remember the specifics though or where it was or where I read it . Never could figure out how ovaries and testicles determined mental capabilities. Always thought there was something different than those in play.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jan 25, 2015 14:01:50 GMT -5
Oddly enough, when I was growing up, school and learning was totally geared toward boys and their learning. Girls managed to learn in spite of this bias. The same might be said about today's environment...the difference is when it was considered be more geared toward boys, there was a consensus that something needed to be changed. However, that same concern doesn't seem to be the case now.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jan 25, 2015 14:03:13 GMT -5
Girls have enough issues with self esteem. Academically, they probably are smarter because their brains area are wired to learn the way things are taught in school. That doesn't mean boys are dumb and can't learn. All kids have enough issues with self-esteem...just because many people don't think boys have an issue (or don't care), doesn't mean it isn't the case.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 14:41:35 GMT -5
I wrote a paper in the mid 2000's about same sex education and found the boy situation very interesting, even then the data was there that they were falling behind. I think most of the blame is a change in the way we educate, that favours the way girls learn. Sit quietly, read your assignment. Traits that are more common in boys are discouraged. It saddened me then, even though I only have a girl. DD's advanced math class is 90% girls. Her school offers a girl's only engineering class over the summer. While I am glad she is excelling, it seems like boys are getting the short end. I wonder how the parents of boys feel about how their education compares.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 14:43:05 GMT -5
I homeschool.
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