Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jan 25, 2015 15:20:51 GMT -5
I wrote a paper in the mid 2000's about same sex education and found the boy situation very interesting, even then the data was there that they were falling behind. I think most of the blame is a change in the way we educate, that favours the way girls learn. Sit quietly, read your assignment. Traits that are more common in boys are discouraged. It saddened me then, even though I only have a girl. DD's advanced math class is 90% girls. Her school offers a girl's only engineering class over the summer. While I am glad she is excelling, it seems like boys are getting the short end. I wonder how the parents of boys feel about how their education compares. The engineering class is a good example of what I mean. Many will say there is still a need for this and that boys have enough opportunities for programs like this...but I highly doubt there are any programs geared specifically toward "boys only." I'm excluding single-sex education schools, as I would expect them to only offer programs geared toward teh gender they are teaching. As I mentioned in an earlier post, it's great that people have concern over helping girls succeed, but somewhere along the way boys have been forgotten about and many of the same types of programs that help girls succeed can also help boys. I am curious if your school offered an engineering class over the summer for everybody who was interested or if there was only a class in engineering for girls offered? If there wasn't a class that boys could be apart of, then boys were purposefully excluded in that instance and were not given the same opportunities.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Jan 25, 2015 16:53:42 GMT -5
I think it's the way subjects are taught now. And, all the students (at least at our high school) are pushed on the college track, rather than there being multiple options to consider for a career once you're done with high school. Our vocational department has gotten a lot smaller, just during the last 7 years here. I've said it before: not everyone learns things the same way, and, not every student is college material.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 18:23:40 GMT -5
Or maybe boys and girls are equally smart but excel in different areas. I read about a school recently that went to all girl and all boy classrooms and showed no difference in performance. I can't remember the specifics though or where it was or where I read it . You have to change the way the subject is taught... not just limit the gender.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 25, 2015 19:11:15 GMT -5
You have to be able to teach the subject and the students need to be ready to learn. Been in a public school classroom lately?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 19:22:54 GMT -5
You have to be able to teach the subject and the students need to be ready to learn. Been in a public school classroom lately? Both of those are very true as well.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 21:19:58 GMT -5
Or maybe boys and girls are equally smart but excel in different areas. I read about a school recently that went to all girl and all boy classrooms and showed no difference in performance. I can't remember the specifics though or where it was or where I read it . You have to change the way the subject is taught... not just limit the gender. They may have. Like I said I don't remember the specifics.
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Jan 25, 2015 22:49:51 GMT -5
I don't think it has anything to do with whether you have ovaries or testes either. I've read studies that female brains are "wired" different than males.
Males seem to be able to understand the "mechanics" of a problem or getting a job done whereas a female will be more analytical in reaching a conclusion or solution.
Some studies were done using MRI's. www.livescience.com/41619-male-female-brains-wired-differently.html
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imanangel
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Post by imanangel on Jan 26, 2015 0:37:21 GMT -5
I think it's the way subjects are taught now. And, all the students (at least at our high school) are pushed on the college track, rather than there being multiple options to consider for a career once you're done with high school. Our vocational department has gotten a lot smaller, just during the last 7 years here. I've said it before: not everyone learns things the same way, and, not every student is college material. Our high school doesn't even have a vocational department. The options here are to go to college or go to the military. Both of my boys are really bright, but struggle with school. They have both built their own gaming computers, but can barely pass Chemistry. My youngest son told me that is because the teachers don't teach. They hand out packets of worksheets. We downloaded some videos for him, helped him make study cards, and quizzed him just trying to help him get a high enough grade on his mid-term to pass the class. We will see if it worked.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 26, 2015 7:26:51 GMT -5
Are your teachers forced to teach to the almighty test? I could see the difference in DS's education vs. DD's.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Jan 26, 2015 9:02:31 GMT -5
Are your teachers forced to teach to the almighty test? I could see the difference in DS's education vs. DD's. Truth! They DO spend a large chunk of time so the kids will pass that stupid standardized test.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 26, 2015 9:08:35 GMT -5
Argh! Testing when it is used properly is an awesome tool. Gives teachers, parents, and students an idea of strengths and weaknesses. But using it AGAINST those same people is just wrong on so many levels.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jan 26, 2015 19:44:39 GMT -5
My friends who went to same gender schools absolutely loved them. I wish I could have given that experience to both my kids. I wished I'd had it for myself. I did. It was good from an educational POV, but I was rather ackward in the boy/girl relationships. Could be personality or it could be because I went to same gender schools up until I went to college But as for poorer performance I would not underestimate the effect of "you get out of it, what you put into it" with "it" being education.
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imanangel
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Post by imanangel on Jan 27, 2015 0:51:26 GMT -5
Are your teachers forced to teach to the almighty test? I could see the difference in DS's education vs. DD's. No. We are actually given a lot of freedom in how we teach. We do have a curriculum, but we can use outside materials and tools to teach, as long as we are teaching the standards.
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spartan7886
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Post by spartan7886 on Jan 27, 2015 8:43:59 GMT -5
My friends who went to same gender schools absolutely loved them. I wish I could have given that experience to both my kids. I wished I'd had it for myself. I did. It was good from an educational POV, but I was rather ackward in the boy/girl relationships. Could be personality or it could be because I went to same gender schools up until I went to college My DH says the same thing, and he was only in a same gender school in HS.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 27, 2015 9:19:55 GMT -5
I'm sure it's personality. Even the same gender schools had dances and other interactions with the other gender schools.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jan 27, 2015 10:20:12 GMT -5
Without going through all the links, can someone help me understand how you teach boys and girls differently? Is it that boys need more breaks for physical activity that have been cut out of the school day or what?
That I can understand, but I'm not sure I believe the genders actually learn differently.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 27, 2015 10:59:21 GMT -5
I wonder how much of this is becoming a self fulfilling prophecy.
I have girls and I constantly read how I should NEVER tell them they aren't smart enough for things like math or science or that girls aren't "good" at it because that sets them up for failure.
Well now we're doing it to boys. We're telling them they can't learn in school, that the system is "not set for you" and it's "too hard" for them to get a proper education in it.
Not saying there cannot be changes made, not saying there isn't research saying there is a problem.
My question is how much of it is actually boys are "wired differently" and how much of it is that by sensationalizing these studies we've spoon fed teachers/parents/male students the idea that boys cannot succeed?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2015 12:04:19 GMT -5
Without going through all the links, can someone help me understand how you teach boys and girls differently? Is it that boys need more breaks for physical activity that have been cut out of the school day or what? That I can understand, but I'm not sure I believe the genders actually learn differently. I'm on my phone. So brief for now. This is 'tends to' ... Tere will always be some of one gender that learn more like other genders typical... So generalizing to a degree. But it's not just that boys need physical bresksbetwwen learning, it's that they tend to learn more through physical means, by doing, by ripping apart and putting together, by acting out... They are not as likely to learn it just by reading and writing about it, particularly when they are younger. Boys are motivated differently. They don't tend to respond to cooperative activities as well as girls. They need competition. Not that you need to play king of the hill, and cooperative can be combined with competition, but generally speaking boys respond better to competitive components. There is more, but for example those will do for now..,
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 27, 2015 12:28:05 GMT -5
Maybe girls are just smarter. There was a time when people said the same thing in reverse for boys vs girls. Of course those people are just called sexist or misogynistic. Some even argued that saying that was lowering the expectation for women, which in turn caused them to have lower test grades. Interesting the same logic isn't applied both ways. I have no problem calling that statement misandric.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 27, 2015 12:29:59 GMT -5
I think that this question is too complicated to be given a pithy reply. there are a variety of social and economic factors at play here both in the workplace and in education.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 27, 2015 13:49:12 GMT -5
I wish to toss into the conversation a couple of facts that I think are important to consider: The percentage of male students who dropped out of high school has decreased from 27.8% in 1960 to 8.5% in 2010.Read more: High School Dropout Rates by Gender, 1960–2010 www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0779196.html#ixzz3Q2qnpMPv and For men in 1961, 56 percent went on to enroll in college. ... For men in 2009, the college enrollment rate was 66 percent. www.wiareport.com/2011/05/a-historical-summary-of-gender-differences-in-college-enrollment-rates/ So secondary schools are graduating a much higher percentage of male students than in the past. A higher percentage of males are enrolling in college. Therefore, is it true that schools are now failing males where previously they weren't? I would contend not. I believe what has changed for the better are factors that previously kept some females from attending college. For example athletic scholarships for females: In the 2009-2010 school year, women had more basketball scholarships available than the men’s teams: 15 to 13. Among identical Division I-A sports, women have more athletic scholarships available than men in softball/baseball, fencing, cross country/track & field, golf, gymnastics, skiing, soccer, swimming, tennis, volleyball and water polo. The only sport--aside from those in which women don’t compete--in which men are awarded more scholarships than women is lacrosse. Women also compete in six more sports than men do. These trends are nearly identical in Division I-AA sports programs.
Read more : www.ehow.com/info_8144923_history-sports-scholarships.html I would also include all the great work that is being done to get females to reach their potential in fields that females were strongly discouraged to pursue in the past.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jan 27, 2015 14:31:43 GMT -5
Without going through all the links, can someone help me understand how you teach boys and girls differently? Is it that boys need more breaks for physical activity that have been cut out of the school day or what? That I can understand, but I'm not sure I believe the genders actually learn differently. I'm on my phone. So brief for now. This is 'tends to' ... Tere will always be some of one gender that learn more like other genders typical... So generalizing to a degree. But it's not just that boys need physical bresksbetwwen learning, it's that they tend to learn more through physical means, by doing, by ripping apart and putting together, by acting out... They are not as likely to learn it just by reading and writing about it, particularly when they are younger. Boys are motivated differently. They don't tend to respond to cooperative activities as well as girls. They need competition. Not that you need to play king of the hill, and cooperative can be combined with competition, but generally speaking boys respond better to competitive components. There is more, but for example those will do for now.., ahhh...this makes sense and matches what I've observed in the working world. So we can't have an educational model that uses and integrated both approaches so the individual can choose what suits them best?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2015 14:35:31 GMT -5
It's possible. It's complicated by other issues too... LD, BD, ESL, socioeconomicaly disadvantaged...
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Jan 27, 2015 15:49:56 GMT -5
As a father of two teenaged boys, I am going to blame the parents. We never pushed out boys in sports or other "macho" things. They both play sports and enjoy it, but they also love to read and can stay focused on class. Their self worth was never determined by how many points they scored, or how many games they started.
I don't believe in "boys will be boys" as an excuse for rowdy behavior, my boys and their friends have fun, and have gotten a little wild at times, but as a parent it is my job to keep them under control and set limits for them. Now that they are high school aged, I don't worry about them, they do great in school and will likely go on to great things.
Setting a structure in place for them early on has made the teenaged years a breeze. I see their friends get totally out of control without a parent around, no wonder they struggle in school.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jan 27, 2015 15:50:46 GMT -5
It's possible. It's complicated by other issues too... LD, BD, ESL, socioeconomicaly disadvantaged... LD? BD? (I got the other two)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2015 15:52:31 GMT -5
Learning disorders, behavior disorders
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2015 17:56:30 GMT -5
Billis, the only caveats is we don't have many apprenticeship programs any more and lots of jobs that used to be no college, from police officers though the trades, now do require higher education.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 27, 2015 18:13:20 GMT -5
Billis, the only caveats is we don't have many apprenticeship programs any more and lots of jobs that used to be no college, from police officers though the trades, now do require higher education. These statistics beg the question: What are K-12 educators doing wrong when it comes to preparing young men for a college education? (from the OP) I quote the question from the OP because I was addressing that specific question from the OP. Now - You answer a much more important question: What is society doing wrong when it comes to preparing young men for a successful adult life in the area of jobs?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2015 18:15:59 GMT -5
I say this with love. But that is not the correct use of 'begs the question'... I dont care about the grammers... Spellin stuff write ain't an issue... But that one just buuuuugs me lol....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2015 18:16:26 GMT -5
It is an excellent question though
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