Police vs "Old-Fashioned Parents" - update in reply #216

[Deleted]

I was being snarky about drive at 12. In general though I am not being snarky, I'm just trying to understand. 

I have a hard time understanding how people can restrict the right to control what IS under ones ability to control ie. Ones own body and environment. And then suggest the same kid should be able to manage things that are outside their ability to control... Other people, vehicles, animals, etc. 

I don't understand how you can say a kid is too young to know something (that there are predators out there in the world... the terms that one finds in Cards against humanity)... But then put them in a position in which they could potentially have to deal with those issues alone.

I was just wondering if anyone had some insight on that. 

I have very confident kids. Maybe too confident in some ways. Because they are comfortable in their own skin, know who they are, express what they think... I give them a shit load of freedom and control. Over things that actually are within their power to control. And as they become aware of and able to handle the things outside their control, the sphere of control translates to a larger environment. 

[Deleted]

Jan 21, 2015 14:20:32 GMT -5 Malarky said:

I'm not criticizing your choices on how to parent.  Your children, your choice.

I'm just asking that people who like to let their children have more freedom be allowed to do so without people freaking out and involving the authorities.  

How is someone supposed to know? Seriously? How is someone supposed to know on the surface if a child is in need of assistance or not? 

To to me the rights first and foremost are to the children, not the parent. A child has a right to be safe from harm. I'd rather have to explain why my child was safe from harm, then have no one ask a child who was in danger if they needed help. 

I have this frequent argument with homeschool moms... As I am actually in favor of regulation and am not particularly happy our state has been reducing regulations.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Does the child look upset or in need of assistance?  If the kids (since there are 2 in this case) were walking down the street, what, besides them being alone, struck the caller as why he/she needed to call the police in the first place? 

Kids crying, yes, needs to be checked out.
Kids skipping along, no. 
Kids running like the devil is after them, um, this one's harder because my boy usually runs like he's chasing someone or is being chased. 

As for the owning their bodies and environments at home, to a degree, yes. I started a long response to this when you first asked but didn't come back to it.  Do my kids get to pick out their hairstyles, mostly.  DD wants longer hair now.  If she's going to take care of it, fine.  DS is 5.  Unless he says no, he's getting a buzz cut again come late spring.  Tats - legal age.  Piercings, we'll talk.  Food, there's a shelf in the fridge with cheese sticks and snacks.  They can help themselves if they want a snack.  And they remind us of stuff for they want for the grocery list.  Do they help cook, badly.  Do they turn of the burners or take stuff out of the oven, no.  Do they help pick out their clothes, yes.  Updating their rooms, yeah, they have input.  Put their dishes in the sink/kitchen table and dirty clothes down the stairs - works in progress.  They want to help with laundry and cleaning.  I see no reason they shouldn't. 

[Malarky]

I'm not going to look this up right now, but if I remember correctly neither the 6 and 10 year old walking nor the 9 year old in the park while her mother was working showed any sign of distress.  

It was simply not acceptable to the well meaning adults who saw them that they be allowed that level of independence.  

If I thought a child was in distress, I would step in if I were present.  I might ask a child who is alone if they needed anything or would like me to call someone.  I would do so from a distance, in a non threatening manner.  I would also take into consideration that if that child becomes frightened, it might be because I accosted him/her.  

But I don't assume that any child who isn't under direct adult supervision is in danger.  Or neglected.  

Each child is different and this approach isn't for everyone, but at what point do you feel comfortable letting go?  At what age can they step outside by themselves.  When can they go a block, a mile?  

[ArchietheDragon]

Another reason to be friends with y our neighbors. 

[Malarky]

Jan 21, 2015 15:35:08 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Another reason to be friends with y our neighbors. 

I used to hear about my kids walking home from elementary school (two blocks-one with a crossing guard) all the time from my neighbors.  

I would mention they aren't alone...all you busy bodies are keeping an eye on them.  

[Iggy aka IG]

Jan 21, 2015 15:35:08 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Another reason to be friends with y our neighbors. 

Or at least know their "situation".  On my commute home at dusk last night, two of the (ahem) children were walking home from IDK where on one of the rather deserted side streets (new subdivision, only two homes on that particular street completed and inhabited) about a 1/4-1/2 mile from home.  As mentioned in a prior post, their parents let them roam all over creation, so after I recognized one (he started to cross the street before he saw my truck) I worried less.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Jan 21, 2015 15:33:39 GMT -5 Malarky said:

I'm not going to look this up right now, but if I remember correctly neither the 6 and 10 year old walking nor the 9 year old in the park while her mother was working showed any sign of distress.  

It was simply not acceptable to the well meaning adults who saw them that they be allowed that level of independence.  

If I thought a child was in distress, I would step in if I were present.  I might ask a child who is alone if they needed anything or would like me to call someone.  I would do so from a distance, in a non threatening manner.  I would also take into consideration that if that child becomes frightened, it might be because I accosted him/her.  

But I don't assume that any child who isn't under direct adult supervision is in danger.  Or neglected.  

Each child is different and this approach isn't for everyone, but at what point do you feel comfortable letting go?  At what age can they step outside by themselves.  When can they go a block, a mile?  

I can tell you that despite my postings here, my kids currently are not permitted to walk the 3+ blocks to the closest playground.  There used to be someone on the sex offender list on the closest way.  I haven't check recently on that.  But until I do MY homework, it's a no go for them.  Also, they're extremely happy with the backyard at this point. 

They are also limited in which neighbor kids they can play with.  The 10 year old next door (A), fine.  The 10 year from 2 streets over (D), not so much.  It's not the distance, it's the parental involvement I see or sense.  I haven't met D's parents yet but my interactions with her have me concerned about them (and I'm using pronouns for a dual parent household but I suspect it's a single mom) and D.  So my kids are not permitted to go there.  And I don't much want them playing with D but haven't actually forbidden it yet. 

[swamp]

Jan 21, 2015 13:48:32 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

I started learning to drive at 12.  My uncle taught us in his old pickup, and would take us out on the dirt roads around his place to practice.  We could also take the three wheeler out to roam around the desert on our own at 12.  That thing had a top speed of somewhere around 55-60 miles an hour.

Now a parent gets weird looks for letting a 12 year old walk to school alone.

DH's parents owned a dairy farm.  He was driving the tractor and milking at 10.   Apparently he had bad parents.

[swamp]

Jan 21, 2015 14:00:55 GMT -5 Malarky said:

It's fine if you want to keep your kids under supervision at all times until you deem them mature enough to be off on their own.  That is your prerogative.

I do ask that you stop trying to criminalize those of us who have different parenting views.  Despite your concerns, we are aware that things could happen but are comfortable with the risk vs. reward.

But how do they mature enough to be on their own if they are never left alone?

[Iggy aka IG]

Jan 21, 2015 15:57:14 GMT -5 swamp said:

Jan 21, 2015 14:00:55 GMT -5 Malarky said:

It's fine if you want to keep your kids under supervision at all times until you deem them mature enough to be off on their own.  That is your prerogative.

I do ask that you stop trying to criminalize those of us who have different parenting views.  Despite your concerns, we are aware that things could happen but are comfortable with the risk vs. reward.

But how do they mature enough to be on their own if they are never left alone?

Damn.  No wonder you're a successful attorney!  Nice one!

[Malarky]

Beth,

That's your call as a parent and I have no problem with that.  You do what is best for your own children.  

I would have an issue if my kid walks past your house unsupervised and you call the police.   Just because I am not standing there supervising at all times does not translate into lack of parental involvement.  I didn't blindly send him/her off without a set of ground rules.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Jan 21, 2015 16:02:40 GMT -5 Malarky said:

Beth,

That's your call as a parent and I have no problem with that.  You do what is best for your own children.  

I would have an issue if my kid walks past your house unsupervised and you call the police.   Just because I am not standing there supervising at all times does not translate into lack of parental involvement.  I didn't blindly send him/her off without a set of ground rules.

Yep.  And I admit, I'm struggling with the whole D situation.  So is DH.  But moving on.

Anyway, no, I'm not calling the cops on kids walking unattended.  There are 2 public schools within a 6 block radius.  There are 2 sets of bus lines a few blocks north or east of us.  And astonishingly, people do just walk in the neighborhood.  I've taken the kids on walks.  And sometimes they're WAY ahead of me when we do so. 

[Ryan]

If I saw some kids walking down the street on their own (at those ages), I wouldn't think TOO much of it.  If I saw kids repeatedly walking a mile to a park and then hanging out there for 1-2 hours, I'd think it was very strange.  Still though, I wouldn't call the cops or anything.

Parents can do what they want, but I still think that the primary reason for letting your kids roam seems to be that it's much easier for the parents.    

[Deleted]

Jan 21, 2015 15:57:14 GMT -5 swamp said:

Jan 21, 2015 14:00:55 GMT -5 Malarky said:

It's fine if you want to keep your kids under supervision at all times until you deem them mature enough to be off on their own.  That is your prerogative.

I do ask that you stop trying to criminalize those of us who have different parenting views.  Despite your concerns, we are aware that things could happen but are comfortable with the risk vs. reward.

But how do they mature enough to be on their own if they are never left alone?

Did you read the Atlantic article? 

[gooddecisions]

I wouldn't think it was strange at all to see kids (a 10 year old with a 6 year old, for example) repeatedly walking to the playground a few blocks away to play for 1-2 hours. I would think it was great and refreshing. I'm not impressed with today's reality of overly supervised kids who are content to be inside playing on devises all day. And, I'm even less impressed with busy-bodies who call the police.

[Deleted]

I never said I'd call the cops. What I would do is very dependent upon situation. 

If I decided to send my kids 6 and 10 (and he didn't look 10) to the park a mile from my house for hours by themselves, I would not be surprised if I was asked questions about it some day.

Because if something did happen to that 6 or 10 year old... Everyone would be asking WTf were those parents and authorities doing. 

And if some kids are being neglected... Walking their young siblings to the park every day because their drunk parents can't be bothered to watch or feed them... Then I feel the rights of those kids for intervention supersedes my right not to be questioned...

[Deleted]

I've watched my six year old shovel mortar into a bucket, drag it to the rope, latch it on, scale two box of scaffolding and pull the bucket up the rope.

I routinely set up 20+ art stations in my house... paint, clay, pottery wheels, splatter paint, spiral paint, exacto knives, wire cutters, scissors, hair dryers, henna, markers, glue, glue guns, beads, glitter, etc. All over the place and 50+ kids ages preschool on up all exploring what and where they want... And yes someone gets cut... Hell someone once got bit by a chipmunk (they also run the property and hammocks and walls and swings and trees, etc)... They have total freedom... AND enough peripheral oversight so that IF something happens, someone can step in and assist. 


You don't have to send them out on their own to give them independence and freedom. 

[thyme4change]

My 12 year old has been taking public transportation to and from school for the past two years. She has to cross two busy streets to get to the station.

My 10 year old son is going to start riding his bike to school. I think it is 2 miles. He will ride along a busy street that has a bike path and will cross 4 times at a traffic light.

If the police show up, I'm fucked

[NastyWoman]

Jan 16, 2015 15:43:10 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Jan 16, 2015 15:32:53 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

This is a very brief little statement so I might be misunderstanding. But I will give it a go.

"Hi little kids. Where do you live?" "Over there." "Okay, lets go see your parents." "This is my Dad." "May I please see a piece of ID that confirms that you are the parent, like a driver's license."

My driver's license confirms that not only am I a parent but I'm C and K's parent?  Nope, my confirms that I am Beth and I live at this address.  Now, if the cops RUN my driver's license, there's undoubtedly a link to me as mom to C and K but just looking at my license at the front door ain't gonna do squat for them. 

I am days late to this party, but the only thing that stops me from adding a big  to this statement is, how do the cops know that the kids they picked up would be C and K?  Did they show identification?  Maybe they would like to have Beth and Mr. Beth fofor parents rather than their own?  Or maybe they are "just kidding".
This is all so silly and reminds me very much of that thread a few months back about kids being left in a car, and what age was old enough?  I think we ended up with locked in teens for a few minutes might be acceptable if the keys were left in the ignition to keep the car cool/warm enough and my admission that my kids would probably have driven off with said car.  From everything I have read I was a lousy mom and someone (anyone) should have taken my kids away from me before I ended up putting them through college.   Busybody fail for which I paid dearly

[gooddecisions]

If I wanted to be a lazy, drunk parent, I'd just give them a devise and keep them inside. No safety issues, no busy bodies judging, no po-po and I could get as black-out drunk as I wanted. Why would I tell them to go play at the park.

[thyme4change]

Jan 21, 2015 18:08:28 GMT -5 gooddecisions said:

If I wanted to be a lazy, drunk parent, I'd just give them a devise and keep them inside. No safety issues, no busy bodies judging, no po-po and I could get as black-out drunk as I wanted. Why would I tell them to go play at the park.

So....you have read my book:  "A drunk's guide to parenting."  

[Deleted]

Seriously you've  never known kids allowed to roam because their parents don't want to deal with them? Want quiet? Want to turn tricks? Get drunk? Do drugs? 

[gooddecisions]

In fact, my 3 year old has a devise right now while I'm on mine and I'm feeling pretty dag-on lazy. I think we'll put on a coat and go outside to look at the giant moon.

[thyme4change]

Of course I don't know any kids whose parents are turning tricks.  Or at least not publicly.  I know it happens - but not in my social circle.  Who do you hang out with?    

[Deleted]

I've worked special Ed a good bit of my professional life. Rural and urban.

[Deleted]

It's dichotomous... They should leave me the f alone to do what I want with my kids... And they should take those kids away from their bad parents... 

And they should know the difference by sight... Or because I say so.

[thyme4change]

But they don't take kids away from bad parents.  The situation has to get pretty dire before they sever parental rights.  You would think a walk to the park wouldn't compare to what has to happen for severance.  

[Iggy aka IG]

Jan 21, 2015 18:38:52 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

But they don't take kids away from bad parents.  The situation has to get pretty dire before they sever parental rights.  You would think a walk to the park wouldn't compare to what has to happen for severance.  

There are 7 kids next door.  For years we've watched them run the neighborhood-playing ball in the street, nearly being run over several times.  We've witnessed the dad hop in his vehicle after drinking (or WHILE drinking) and drive away (yes, this was reported, no nothing happened).  He swears at them, calls them names, etc.  Sometimes they aren't dressed appropriately for outdoors.  Sometimes they are playing in weather they shouldn't be outside in.  As mentioned before, the youngest disappears to the neighbors house for hours and no one comes looking for him.  Ya' can't fix stupid. 

[Deleted]

Jan 21, 2015 18:53:50 GMT -5 Iggy aka IG said:

Jan 21, 2015 18:38:52 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

But they don't take kids away from bad parents.  The situation has to get pretty dire before they sever parental rights.  You would think a walk to the park wouldn't compare to what has to happen for severance.  

There are 7 kids next door.  For years we've watched them run the neighborhood-playing ball in the street, nearly being run over several times.  We've witnessed the dad hop in his vehicle after drinking (or WHILE drinking) and drive away (yes, this was reported, no nothing happened).  He swears at them, calls them names, etc.  Sometimes they aren't dressed appropriately for outdoors.  Sometimes they are playing in weather they shouldn't be outside in.  As mentioned before, the youngest disappears to the neighbors house for hours and no one comes looking for him.  Ya' can't fix stupid. 

So you shouldn't question it?