Iggy aka IG
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Post by Iggy aka IG on Jan 16, 2015 11:37:40 GMT -5
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jan 16, 2015 11:44:57 GMT -5
I saw that story yesterday. I know where the cops picked them up at and it's a very busy street and area. I'm not sure I would feel comfortable with children that age walking that route. Plus you may have taught the children how to cross the street and what not but people drive like crazy around there.
The law states that any child under 8 has to be supervised by someone over 13 so they are in violation of that law. Do parents do far worse things? Yes, I'm sure they do. I don't know that the parents should be punished but I also don't agree with what they did knowing the area and the traffic.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 16, 2015 11:46:49 GMT -5
So 6 cop cars came to check out a report of 2 kids walking home from school by themselves? That part is just nuts.
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Jan 16, 2015 11:47:11 GMT -5
Good Gawd! Neglect?? Give me a BREAK!
And 6 cop cars show up? I'd be pissed at the nosy neighbor who called police because they happened to observe two kids walking up the street without an adult.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 16, 2015 11:48:32 GMT -5
I saw that story yesterday. I know where the cops picked them up at and it's a very busy street and area. I'm not sure I would feel comfortable with children that age walking that route. Plus you may have taught the children how to cross the street and what not but people drive like crazy around there. The law states that any child under 8 has to be supervised by someone over 13 so they are in violation of that law. Do parents do far worse things? Yes, I'm sure they do. I don't know that the parents should be punished but I also don't agree with what they did knowing the area and the traffic. The article has something that said that portion of the law does not specifically state outdoors. So technically, no they're not in violation of it.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jan 16, 2015 11:50:22 GMT -5
So, parents of the board, how many of you know your local laws on children inside and out? My kids walked a block to the park frequently. Under 13, for sure and the younger one was always accompanied by an older, but I have no clue if I broke local laws letting them do it.
I'm all for child protection laws but how about writing in some sort of 'get out of jail free' card on some of the smaller ones so you don't ruin everyone's life the first time they're caught. Especially if no actual harm came to the child(ren).
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jan 16, 2015 11:50:27 GMT -5
I don't agree that its neglect but what do you think should be done? They are in violation of the law regarding supervision of children. Either the law is there to protect children or it isn't.
I've been on that street plenty and I would think it was weird to see two small children walking alone. It's very industrial with some retail sprinkled around. I don't think I've ever seen children there. I also think if they wanted them to walk home from somewhere there are better places than through Silver Spring. It's not on the list of zip codes I'd live in.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jan 16, 2015 11:53:43 GMT -5
From what I read in The Washington Post there's debate over applying it. They say indoors but I'm inclined to think the same standards apply outside. I mean shouldn't you be safer indoors and there's a standard there? The path in question went through a very busy area, people coming and going from the metro station, buses and tons of cars.
I don't think they should throw the book at them but I also think the parents could have made a better choice.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 16, 2015 11:56:38 GMT -5
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jan 16, 2015 11:59:06 GMT -5
I just get pissed off when people defend themselves by stating that they are "well-educated", as if that absolves them from any possible poor decision making. A well-educated person can suck at parenting as easily as a GED person.
I don't know what's wrong or right. I don't have kids. However, I would think it would depend on the kid.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jan 16, 2015 12:00:48 GMT -5
Ooops. Anne beat me to it.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jan 16, 2015 12:02:11 GMT -5
I don't think it warrants that level of investigation. I can see where police would have concerns about children alone in that neighborhood though. I'm not saying the parents should be thrown in jail but that little trek is not through the best neighborhoods. Perhaps they could choose a better place for their walks.
I don't say the cops were 100% right but the father could have interacted in a better manor. This was in December after all of the police shootings. You ask for someone for id and they aren't cooperative of course they call for backup that's protocol.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 16, 2015 12:08:01 GMT -5
AS you can probably tell, I have issues with this. My kids are 5 and 6.5. I have plenty of family to give me hell when they think I'm screwing up. I don't need over zealous, over worked cops and social workers getting their panties in a knot over our parenting skills. In this case, they overstepped.
I get that we need to draw lines/boundaries about neglect. But let's fix the more painful cases first - the ones where kids who are clearly being abused by immediate family get sent back to them, repeatedly. And the kid dies. Or the kids who are not getting enough food or clothing and the shelter is iffy (no heat and/or full of bugs). Or the ones where a teacher, coach or other mandatory reporter is stepping in. If all you've got is a family that is letting their kids walk home alone, let's start by having a non-confrontational visit with the family.
I'm even ok with the kids being pulled out of class to talk to the social workers - although the reports of what the social workers to the kids said struck me as inappropriate but I suspect that is the kid telling Mom and Dad and then Mom and Dad telling the reporter, who then write the article.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jan 16, 2015 12:09:24 GMT -5
I wouldn't sign a safety plan with DSS either for that.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jan 16, 2015 12:13:29 GMT -5
Seriously... there are laws that says a 12 year old can't walk to school by themselves? That has to be a joke... it can't be serious. Oh someone please tell me that'I didn't read that correctly. A 12 year old could walk to school. The law says anyone under 8 must be supervised by someone 13 or older. I agree it has been blown out of proportion. I'm not 100% on the parents side though. Don't sign the plan but if the cop asks you for id give it! They'll do what they think is right as parents but I can't fault the cops for checking on them. Not in that neighborhood. It's just not that great of a place.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 16, 2015 12:16:03 GMT -5
Seriously... there are laws that says a 12 year old can't walk to school by themselves? That has to be a joke... it can't be serious. Oh someone please tell me that'I didn't read that correctly. Sroo, Wisconsin state law USED to say kids under 12 needed older supervision to stay home alone. I don't think that's changed. As a kid, I knew 12 was the age I could be left home alone or babysit other kids. I don't think anyone paid attention to that law when we were outside. I remember walking a mile plus with my bff to go swimming most days in summer. We started at age 6. And we crossed US 41 to do it. But there were a lot more SAHMs then and people knew each other more. We got busted one day for not crossing at the lights. So even if people didn't know me, they knew I was one of X's kids. Or in some cases, we were X's grandkids. And they'd sort of keep a discrete eye on the kids.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2015 12:17:37 GMT -5
My big issue is the divide between 'the world is safer today' and 'we are too paranoid and/or fearful today'... I'd there a causal relationship between the two?
Its a difficult balance.
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Bluerobin
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Post by Bluerobin on Jan 16, 2015 12:19:46 GMT -5
When this ends and the parents prevail, I see a huge lawsuit against the police and CPS. Hope the parents win. The law only applies to the home and cars, not the outdoors. Idiots!!!
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 16, 2015 12:22:27 GMT -5
I have friends that were investigated by D.H.S. after their 5 year old flashed someone on the playground. They cooperated fully, D.H.S. showed up once at the house and then observed the kid at school and it was over. I got the impression it was the parents that made it confrontational by not giving any ID. If you come to my door ask for me and I say I'm me, am I required to give ID? I'm guessing they heard the accent (guy's from Russia/former USSR) and they wanted more ID based on that alone.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 16, 2015 12:23:45 GMT -5
I'm curious why? The safety plan said the kids had to be supervised until child services could visit. Doesn't seem that onerous to me, especially considering the alternative. These are dedicated free range parents. They're not going to agree to supervision that would greatly conflict with their parenting plan.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jan 16, 2015 12:26:59 GMT -5
Cops need probable cause to subject you to a search, and that includes demanding ID or other paperwork. He was perfectly within his rights to refuse to provide ID and could have told them they can't enter the house at all without a search warrant. My kids walked to school and back before they were 13, and I wouldn't have signed the safety plan either. CPS can suck it. Don't they have enough cases of actual abuse to focus on? I'm also guessing the neighborhood was a lot safer and less busy than Silver Spring in front of the Discovery building.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jan 16, 2015 12:27:43 GMT -5
I'm curious why? The safety plan said the kids had to be supervised until child services could visit. Doesn't seem that onerous to me, especially considering the alternative. because by signing the safety plan, you are acknowledging you need one.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 16, 2015 12:28:11 GMT -5
I'm shocked that an institution as messed up as CPS would have the nerve to make a big deal out of this. I'm shocked the cops did, too. Too bad the 911 operator didn't ask were the kids in any danger before dispatching police. Seriously, someone needs to take a stand. I'd be pissed if a cop came to my door, questioned my parenting, made me show ID, and then I was threatened with my children being removed if I didnt comply with some bullshit made up nonsense. I hope they sue the bejesus out of the busybody that called the cops and the rest of the people involved.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Jan 16, 2015 12:30:10 GMT -5
Cops need probable cause to subject you to a search, and that includes demanding ID or other paperwork. He was perfectly within his rights to refuse to provide ID and could have told them they can't enter the house at all without a search warrant. My kids walked to school and back before they were 13, and I wouldn't have signed the safety plan either. CPS can suck it. Don't they have enough cases of actual abuse to focus on? They don't need probable cause to ask for ID. But they do need it for a search.
I provide ID just to not be a dick, but you aren't searching me or my house. Even though you would fall asleep during the search im so boring.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jan 16, 2015 12:32:24 GMT -5
I am well educated (well, I have an advanced degree, according to my kids I am not very smart) I grew up in a former Soviet Union, so I know what the husband talking about I lived in MD and am a bit familiar with Montogomery county I am probably a bit "free range", although, I am not sure exactly what it means, but I am certainly not a helicopter parent
I think those parents are idiots!
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 16, 2015 12:32:36 GMT -5
I'm not returning children to anyone who won't show their ID, which is what I assume was happening. And I'm assuming that they came to discuss the situation, heard the accent and wanted proof of id. He refused, they called for backup and it went downhill from there. The kids would have known their address and their parents. So we're at the 3 sides part of the story - parents, cop and the truth.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Jan 16, 2015 12:34:09 GMT -5
They can ask for whatever they want. I'm pretty sure there's no duty to comply without a warrant. exactly/
However, the standard for ID is lower than probable cause. You also have a right to refuse. But if the cops have my kids, I'm showing my ID to get them back. Even if I think he's a dick.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2015 12:36:02 GMT -5
So if you can't find a sitter you can just leave your kids outside and it's no problem?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 16, 2015 12:36:21 GMT -5
I wouldn't sign anything CPS pushed in my face on my doorstep either. They can suck it. If they want to threaten to take my kids I'll be on the phone with a lawyer so fast their head will spin.
You want me to sign it that bad you can wait until I get a lawyer to review it and we can sign it in your office. I am not going to let you bully me on my doorstep into handing over my signature.
I would show ID though and be polite about it. But no way would I roll over and meekly sign whatever document they shove under my nose.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2015 12:37:08 GMT -5
Why are they safer today?
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