Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Jan 16, 2015 14:10:30 GMT -5
Apparently, I am the worst parent ever. We live in a small town and my middle schooler rides his bike or walks to school, his friends, the library, baseball practice, the pool in summer.... The alternative is letting him sit at home all day rotting his mind with TV and video games. Of course- I did get him a cell phone so he could call if he needed anything and so that I could get ahold of him. Small town is a whole different kettle of fish versus a busy DC suburb that isn't the safest. Two very different things. If I hadn't walked that street myself I might not object to them being alone either. I was referring to Iggy's comment that she worries about middle schoolers walking on less traveled streets by themselves.
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Iggy aka IG
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Post by Iggy aka IG on Jan 16, 2015 14:11:05 GMT -5
That being said, I admit I worry a bit when I see the middle schoolers walking home alone on less traveled side streets. Yeah, I live in a small town, but we still have crime, and there is evil everywhere. I am glad they are getting exercise and fresh air, but still.... I'm not a mom, and I guess it would depend on the child(ren), maturity level, and a few other factors. Apparently, I am the worst parent ever. We live in a small town and my middle schooler rides his bike or walks to school, his friends, the library, baseball practice, the pool in summer.... The alternative is letting him sit at home all day rotting his mind with TV and video games. Of course- I did get him a cell phone so he could call if he needed anything and so that I could get ahold of him. I don't know you so...
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 16, 2015 14:11:41 GMT -5
I'm always relieved when I hear that someone committing a crime is dead. I think about the countless other crimes and victims that are now safe. Didn't you admit to tax fraud but not declaring income about a year ago? ?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 16, 2015 14:13:28 GMT -5
Too bad the man wasn't a lawyer and didn't know his rights.
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Jan 16, 2015 14:40:16 GMT -5
A lot of people keep saying times have changed, and it's not as safe today as it was in "the good old days".
I was a kid growing up in those "good old days". There was still stranger-danger then, as much so as today.
We would walk or ride our bikes for blocks (or miles). I had to walk 5 or 6 blocks to my elementary (grade) school - farther to Jr High, and travel even farther than that to HS.
When we were little, there was a playground 2 blocks away - that we walked to alone or with our friends and without adult supervision. We'd also ride our bikes for miles to the local pool.
We didn't have cell phones to carry with us, and there weren't security cameras on every street corner and on every building.
There wasn't nearly as much media coverage to incidents, and there was no "Amber Alert" system.
Considering all the security cameras and electronic observing there is today , I'd say it's leaps and bounds more safe today for kids than when I was growing up - but parents seem to be more paranoid today - and helicopter parenting is going to the extreme.
There's such a thing as being cautious and protective, and then there's being paranoid & keeping your child trapped in an an invisible plastic bubble by not allowing them out of sight of off their leash for one second.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2015 15:24:25 GMT -5
I'm confused. You wanted them to hand the kids over with no identification? What about rights of the kids?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 16, 2015 15:32:53 GMT -5
I'm confused. You wanted them to hand the kids over with no identification? What about rights of the kids? This is a very brief little statement so I might be misunderstanding. But I will give it a go. "Hi little kids. Where do you live?" "Over there." "Okay, lets go see your parents." "This is my Dad." "May I please see a piece of ID that confirms that you are the parent, like a driver's license."
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 16, 2015 15:43:10 GMT -5
I'm confused. You wanted them to hand the kids over with no identification? What about rights of the kids? This is a very brief little statement so I might be misunderstanding. But I will give it a go. "Hi little kids. Where do you live?" "Over there." "Okay, lets go see your parents." "This is my Dad." "May I please see a piece of ID that confirms that you are the parent, like a driver's license." My driver's license confirms that not only am I a parent but I'm C and K's parent? Nope, my confirms that I am Beth and I live at this address. Now, if the cops RUN my driver's license, there's undoubtedly a link to me as mom to C and K but just looking at my license at the front door ain't gonna do squat for them.
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Iggy aka IG
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Post by Iggy aka IG on Jan 16, 2015 15:46:05 GMT -5
The kids in question are old enough to tell a police officer their address, parent's names, and verify for the officer that the guy answering the door is dad. Why would they need to hand them over at all? Why were the kids picked up by the officers? Were they in danger, or just walking to the park to play? If our communities are so dangerous that kids can't walk on public streets half a block from their home the cops have clearly failed and should all get canned. It would be time to institute martial law at that pointNOW it's time to give a shout out to Smith and Wesson.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 16, 2015 15:47:46 GMT -5
Right! I haven't looked at my driver's license in a while, but I don't remember a section that listed my kid's names. You'd need to see a birth certificate for that listing me as the father, then a picture ID to confirm I was the guy listed on the birth certificate. The only reason I see for the cop asking the dad for ID is because he had a foreign accent. Yep.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 16, 2015 16:06:43 GMT -5
... Now, if the cops RUN my driver's license, there's undoubtedly a link to me as mom to C and K ... That statement makes me curious. Not meant to be question you but is it true? From what data base would the information come from that the police would be accessing? Hmmm? Like I said, it is an interesting question to me.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 16, 2015 16:12:15 GMT -5
I don't know what DBs the cops use and link might be too strong of a word. But my kids are enrolled in the public school system here. And my name is all over that. As is my husbands. So that's a gov't record in a gov't db. While it's probably not directly linked to my DL, it's also probably not that hard to find out.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2015 16:12:40 GMT -5
I'm confused. You wanted them to hand the kids over with no identification? What about rights of the kids? This is a very brief little statement so I might be misunderstanding. But I will give it a go. "Hi little kids. Where do you live?" "Over there." "Okay, lets go see your parents." "This is my Dad." "May I please see a piece of ID that confirms that you are the parent, like a driver's license." Is that what happened?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2015 16:14:38 GMT -5
I don't understand how, if by law they can't be left in their own house without a parent, they can be at a playground all afternoon without a parent?
The oldest was 10 right?
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 16, 2015 16:15:18 GMT -5
WE don't know oped. Now I have to go pick up my kids from school. Because I'm a tad paranoid about our school bus system.
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Jan 16, 2015 16:20:25 GMT -5
I'm sure nothing will come of this, but they have to respond to calls so can't really blame the cops.
To me, I think 6 and 10 is too young to just let your kids roam around. If they go down to the park and play, they are probably unsupervised for a couple hours? I did not grow up with helicopter parents, but I was not really roaming very far until I got to junior high. It was mostly walking to friends house within the neighborhood and playing there.
As I'm saying that, I guess it depends on the neighborhood they live in. The area I grew up had a lot of kids and seemed more lively, so my entire block was basically where I could roam. I wouldn't let my kids roam around in my parents neighborhood today because it would just seem strange.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2015 16:28:08 GMT -5
So, ostensibly is the 10 year old responsible for the 6 year old at the park? Is he to watch her? What if she is taken on his 'watch'... forget kidnapping, what if she falls off a swing or a jungle gym... does he carry her home? Leave her there to go for help?
Sorry, i call it parents that are too f-ing busy with their own shit to take a laptop to the playground and at least be around the area if they are needed.
10 is way too young to be responsible for what could happen to a six year old... or even himself. If someone comes up to him, kidnapper or bully or dog or snake or wtf... he's responsible for what happens?
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Malarky
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Post by Malarky on Jan 16, 2015 16:32:40 GMT -5
OMFG!!!!!
I can't tell you how glad I am that my kids are older.
How long do you keep them in the bubble wrap? At what age can they go a block? Two blocks?
OH DEAR GOD!! Look at those kids-THEY'RE ALONE...IN BROAD DAYLIGHT!! Walking!
We are so screwed if we raise the future of our country to be afraid to do anything without supervision.
Oh, wait, we're already doing that and the results aren't pretty.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Jan 16, 2015 16:38:13 GMT -5
I agree with Ryan. I applaud the goal of parents who want independent/functional children, but 6 and 10 ARE a tad young. We walked every day (except when it was raining) almost a mile to school. We were the second-farthest-out kids on our route; we picked up neighbor kids along the way (walking as a large group), and then reversed the process on the way home. Because it was a K-8 Catholic school, we had kids and siblings of kids in that entire age range (yes, kindergarteners too). Small knots of kids forming a large band of students in uniform strung out along the streets walking home was a daily sight in my neighborhood. But none of us were ever entirely alone. And while I was free-range on my immediate street, I was not allowed off my street alone until I was around 12 or so. Sad as it is, I agree that it would be strange today to see free-range kids in the old neighborhood - not because it's dangerous, but because it just isn't "done."
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Malarky
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Post by Malarky on Jan 16, 2015 16:40:55 GMT -5
So, ostensibly is the 10 year old responsible for the 6 year old at the park? Is he to watch her? What if she is taken on his 'watch'... forget kidnapping, what if she falls off a swing or a jungle gym... does he carry her home? Leave her there to go for help? Sorry, i call it parents that are too f-ing busy with their own shit to take a laptop to the playground and at least be around the area if they are needed. 10 is way too young to be responsible for what could happen to a six year old... or even himself. If someone comes up to him, kidnapper or bully or dog or snake or wtf... he's responsible for what happens? Or maybe we could teach our children to be confident in the world without absolute, constant supervision. I'm a parent that let my kids be free range kids. Not because I was too f-ing busy, but because I value self confidence and self esteem and self sufficiency. That isn't gained by my being there to intervene and handling every problem that crops up. It means I taught them skills and instilled values and trusted them to take go forth and explore the world.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 16, 2015 16:46:33 GMT -5
This is a very brief little statement so I might be misunderstanding. But I will give it a go. "Hi little kids. Where do you live?" "Over there." "Okay, lets go see your parents." "This is my Dad." "May I please see a piece of ID that confirms that you are the parent, like a driver's license." Is that what happened? It is always tricky attempting to "flesh out" the skeleton of what is reported. I feel I have made a reasonable attempt in this situation to do so.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2015 16:53:06 GMT -5
I have pretty confident, self sufficient teenagers... and i didn't even have to let them go out for hours alone at age 10 and under to achieve it....
Seriously. Why can't someone answer me, if you don't leave your kids alone at home for hours at 6 and 10... why can you let them walk to and play at a park at that age?
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Malarky
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Post by Malarky on Jan 16, 2015 17:05:25 GMT -5
I did it because I seriously believed that they were capable of handling it. And they have proved me right.
For the parents who believe that their children must be supervised at all times, have at it.
For the rest of us, please stop treating it as a criminal offense just because you think our kids need constant supervision. They don't.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2015 17:13:09 GMT -5
How many emergency situations have your 10 and 6 year olds handled by themselves? Have they evaded predators? Have they dealt with gushing blood? A fall? Concussion? Broken arm? Runaway dog? Bullies who are physically threatening? Guns? Fire? Drunk Drivers? ... any of that?
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Iggy aka IG
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Post by Iggy aka IG on Jan 16, 2015 17:14:06 GMT -5
My nieces are 13 (tomorrow, YAY!) and 16.5. They're self-sufficient as well. My sis/their mom works long hours (still does) when they were younger, so they were independent at a young age. HOWEVER, sis knew where they were at all times because they were required to check in. I remember the fiasco of when the eldest walked across the mall parking lot to McD's several years ago. Sis was upset this change in location wasn't reported to her. The eldest also questioned her mom several years ago why she was so strict compared to other parents. It wasn't too long ago WE were kids, and know what can happen with pre-teen "downtime".
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Iggy aka IG
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Post by Iggy aka IG on Jan 16, 2015 17:16:12 GMT -5
How many emergency situations have your 10 and 6 year olds handled by themselves? Have they evaded predators? Have they dealt with gushing blood? A fall? Concussion? Broken arm? Runaway dog? Bullies who are physically threatening? Guns? Fire? Drunk Drivers? ... any of that? 911. Seriously. When I was almost 6, my mom went into convulsions, I heard it from the other room (I was watching Sesame Street). When I went into the kitchen and saw her flopping around the floor, I picked up the phone and called our neighbors two doors down.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 16, 2015 17:16:54 GMT -5
Geez, I just came back from picking up DH's prescriptions and for those of you on whatever time zone this is, it's getting kind of dark and it's now 5:15 so say it was 5 pm. Two young boys walking together and if they were 8, I'd be amazed. This in a town where if you still aren't breast feeding your two year old, you suck as a mother. I wonder if anyone called the cops?
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jan 16, 2015 17:23:23 GMT -5
Yeah - I think refusing to give your ID to the cops and sign a safety plan when CPS is already involved shows a lot of privileged thinking. You are not required to identify yourself to cops. If a cop comes to your home and demands to see an ID, you are within your rights to decline. Now, if you are driving, a cop has the right to ask to see your driver's license. But you do not have to ID yourself if you are in your house, or on the street.
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Iggy aka IG
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Post by Iggy aka IG on Jan 16, 2015 17:25:13 GMT -5
Geez, I just came back from picking up DH's prescriptions and for those of you on whatever time zone this is, it's getting kind of dark and it's now 5:15 so say it was 5 pm. Two young boys walking together and if they were 8, I'd be amazed. This in a town where if you still aren't breast feeding your two year old, you suck as a mother. I wonder if anyone called the cops? Our POS next door neighbors, the one's I've complained about in the past, are a blended family of 7 kids. Our new neighbor gal across the street told me the 3-year-old from next door was at their house, and, in the several hours he was there playing, no one came to look for him. I mean, WTE? Guess they figure they have more to spare?
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Iggy aka IG
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Post by Iggy aka IG on Jan 16, 2015 17:25:52 GMT -5
Yeah - I think refusing to give your ID to the cops and sign a safety plan when CPS is already involved shows a lot of privileged thinking. You are not required to identify yourself to cops. If a cop comes to your home and demands to see an ID, you are within your rights to decline. Now, if you are driving, a cop has the right to ask to see your driver's license. But you do not have to ID yourself if you are in your house, or on the street. Yup. BTDT.
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