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Post by Amateur Genealogist on Dec 30, 2014 14:55:18 GMT -5
It was a major depression 15 years ago - started getting drunk most nights, insomnia, crying uncontrollably, hopelessness, planning on stepping in front of a train. Never saw a doctor - wouldn't. He quit teaching, and the symptoms subsided. Now, he's dealing with milder symptoms that come and go, so no full on depression, but the history is there and potential for return.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Dec 30, 2014 15:00:09 GMT -5
I'd demand he see a doctor/psychiatrist for his depression before you agree to this endeavor. He should have full control of himself before he becomes self employed.
If he is really serious about this then he'll do it. You have every right to make sure you won't end up dealing with him having a nervous breakdown AND having to support the household by yourself financially.
Untreated depression does not just go away. It lurks in the background and will hit you upside the head when you can least afford it to.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Dec 30, 2014 15:04:27 GMT -5
Untreated depression does not just go away. It lurks in the background and will hit you upside the head when you can least afford it to. It also is going to affect your kids, and likely not in a positive way. I don't have fond memories of cleaning up after one of my parent's breakdown. Mental illness/emotional health is now my hill to die on, as an adult.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Dec 30, 2014 15:09:07 GMT -5
It was a major depression 15 years ago - started getting drunk most nights, insomnia, crying uncontrollably, hopelessness, planning on stepping in front of a train. Never saw a doctor - wouldn't. He quit teaching, and the symptoms subsided. Now, he's dealing with milder symptoms that come and go, so no full on depression, but the history is there and potential for return. Just because depression is not a full-on, full-blown episode that reaches crisis level does not mean that it is not affecting the person or their ability to function adequately. Dysthymia is the diagnosis of a milder form of depression. It is the kind of depression that lets you slog through life day after day, but there is no energy/zest/joy/juice in life - you live in a chronic state of exhaustion, hopelessness, worthlessness, "blah" and "why-bother" even while you continue to function with daily must-dos. Back in the day, clinicians called it "the depressive personality." And it can really be insidious. It doesn't have to be a crisis in order to negatively affect one's life and daily functioning. Just sayin' . . .
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Dec 30, 2014 15:38:55 GMT -5
It was a major depression 15 years ago - started getting drunk most nights, insomnia, crying uncontrollably, hopelessness, planning on stepping in front of a train. Never saw a doctor - wouldn't. He quit teaching, and the symptoms subsided. Now, he's dealing with milder symptoms that come and go, so no full on depression, but the history is there and potential for return. Just because depression is not a full-on, full-blown episode that reaches crisis level does not mean that it is not affecting the person or their ability to function adequately. Dysthymia is the diagnosis of a milder form of depression. It is the kind of depression that lets you slog through life day after day, but there is no energy/zest/joy/juice in life - you live in a chronic state of exhaustion, hopelessness, worthlessness, "blah" and "why-bother" even while you continue to function with daily must-dos. Back in the day, clinicians called it "the depressive personality." And it can really be insidious. It doesn't have to be a crisis in order to negatively affect one's life and daily functioning. Just sayin' . . . Great, now you are having me think I might be depressed !!!
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Dec 30, 2014 15:50:55 GMT -5
Just because depression is not a full-on, full-blown episode that reaches crisis level does not mean that it is not affecting the person or their ability to function adequately. Dysthymia is the diagnosis of a milder form of depression. It is the kind of depression that lets you slog through life day after day, but there is no energy/zest/joy/juice in life - you live in a chronic state of exhaustion, hopelessness, worthlessness, "blah" and "why-bother" even while you continue to function with daily must-dos. Back in the day, clinicians called it "the depressive personality." And it can really be insidious. It doesn't have to be a crisis in order to negatively affect one's life and daily functioning. Just sayin' . . . Great, now you are having me think I might be depressed !!! TheHaitian: check out this guy's writings:
www.mindbodygreen.com/0-12143/15-signs-youre-living-in-a-depressed-state-what-to-do-about-it.html
You can find him ("The Angry Therapist") on his website and on Facebook.
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Dec 30, 2014 15:59:26 GMT -5
How much saving do you have? How long would your husband expect this business to replace 100% his current income? We have $13K EF, $58K in Roth (haven't contributed to this for years), $65K in 401(k) and $12K in 529. I've heard him say many times he will never "work for the man" again. I've have gotten him to understand that he cannot have this mentality for me to support him quitting and convinced him to at least work part-time somewhere to have at least something regular coming in. I'm working now to convince him to have other things lined up for down times, like plowing snow with his truck in the winter and landscaping services in the summer. But, he truly believes he can replace 100% of his income with eBay. Your husband needs a wake-up call on so many things. Selling on ebay is the equivalent of working for "the man" without getting any benefits. He's going to be working as many hours to replace his income, going to be subject to pay cuts at any time (fees going up!), and will have no benefits in case he gets injured and can't work. If he doesn't like his job, tell him to look for a new one that's a little more suitable. If he needs to verify this on his own, then send him to any sellers forum on ebay/amazon and have him read responses of most of the sellers there. At this point, he should be using ebay to catch you up financially and put more into retirement; you shouldn't use it to replace an income. In some ways, my situation is kinda similar to yours. My wife is a teacher with a generous pension down the line, I work full-time, and I have a side-business selling online. I have been doing this and generating a full-time income since 2005, yet I still continue to work. I would never do this and take a really demanding job as well….the extra income allows me to accept a smaller salary and do the things I enjoy (or tolerate) a little more. I don’t think that being your own boss really gives you freedom. My dad was his own boss for 40 years and did very well for about 25 of those years, but it’s not like he just went wherever or did whatever he want without stress; he probably had 10x the stress that his friends had. I’m probably more on the conservative side when it comes to finances and most people would probably have quit their jobs by now. Still though, I don’t think many people would think (with 2 kids) that it’s a good idea to quit a job with the HOPE that they could replace the income. Tell him to bust his tail for 6 months and actually DO IT first (replace the income) and then you’ll talk about him leaving his job.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Dec 30, 2014 17:17:30 GMT -5
Taking your budget, I pulled out all the essentials that I'm guessing are necessary & difficult to cut:
mortgage/escrow $1,711 groceries & household supplies 572 (You may be able to cut this, but if you cut dining out & school lunches, this may be hard to drop significantly) student loan 471 auto loan 331 auto fuel 276 EF savings 250 auto maintenance/registration 160 afterschool childcare 150 (maybe??) auto insurance 124 LTD & life insurance 116 electric 97 landline/internet 82 (left for the ebay business) gas 34 garbage 18 TOTAL $4,392
Does your income alone cover that? My guess is no based on your income split, but it would depend on the various deductions & such. My guess is you can't even cover the basic, basics without additional income from him. And you will hate this budget, this leaves room for nothing fun.
I would be terrified he won't be able to bring in enough income or will start to have problems working for himself & not be productive enough to help cover the bills. I would want to be in a position where his income is totally optional & you can accept not having it before making the leap to self-employment.
Now my perception is totally colored by having an ex that always dreamed of being self-employed. He started many side businesses with gusto that always made good money in the beginning & they all eventually failed because he lacked the actual will to be self-employed. A history of depression & a growing inventory taking up space would worry me too. Why does he have a growing inventory just sitting? I don't buy the lack of time excuse because he is finding time to buy it. I would be worried he already doesn't enjoy one absolutely necessary aspect of the business (the selling part) & isn't focused enough on that.
That covers my opinion on the self-employment...another post to follow in a bit.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Dec 30, 2014 17:28:04 GMT -5
Just looking at your budget, it isn't bad, but there is a lot of fluff. Since this is the 2014 average, I thought it might help to turn some of the categories to annual numbers:
Gifts - 3276 Dining Out - 2748 Clothing - 2532 Travel - 2400 Kids enrichment - 2316 Home Furnishing - 1980 Entertainment - 1980 Misc - 1680 School Lunches - 1200
Total - $20,364
Those are just some of the categories that jumped out at me. To me they all represent some level of fun/entertainment/optional spending. Some is no doubt a necessity, no one want to give 0 gifts & kids need clothes. But, I would just run through a self-check to see if what you are spending on all these really reflect your priorities. $20K a year is a lot when you add up all these optional categories, that is over 25% of your take home.
Maybe look to cut back in some of the areas that aren't as important to you. Think of your spending in terms of your priorities in life & make sure you are spending on things that are important to you. And if you want to cut down spending, these are going to be the places to start.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Dec 30, 2014 18:37:54 GMT -5
It was a major depression 15 years ago - started getting drunk most nights, insomnia, crying uncontrollably, hopelessness, planning on stepping in front of a train. Never saw a doctor - wouldn't. He quit teaching, and the symptoms subsided. Now, he's dealing with milder symptoms that come and go, so no full on depression, but the history is there and potential for return. It's called an anniversary. But don't be fooled into thinking it can't turn into full blown depression at any given time frame. You've got a long road ahead of you
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 30, 2014 18:42:32 GMT -5
It was a major depression 15 years ago - started getting drunk most nights, insomnia, crying uncontrollably, hopelessness, planning on stepping in front of a train. Never saw a doctor - wouldn't. He quit teaching, and the symptoms subsided. Now, he's dealing with milder symptoms that come and go, so no full on depression, but the history is there and potential for return. It's called an anniversary. But don't be fooled into thinking it can't turn into full blown depression at any given time frame. You've got a long road ahead of you Gee not everyone that struggles with depression is doomed to a horrible life.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Dec 30, 2014 18:44:07 GMT -5
It's called an anniversary. But don't be fooled into thinking it can't turn into full blown depression at any given time frame. You've got a long road ahead of you Gee not everyone that struggles with depression is doomed to a horrible life. I know that, but if not treated the whole family will suffer and he isn't getting any help and it won't disappear by itself!!!!
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Dec 30, 2014 19:10:37 GMT -5
Gee not everyone that struggles with depression is doomed to a horrible life. I know that, but if not treated the whole family will suffer and he isn't getting any help and it won't disappear by itself!!!! Depression is a horrible disease that negatively impacts the whole family . It can permeate every aspect of family life (relationships, finances, family stability - everything). The sooner OP can find a way to convince DH to seek treatment, the better things will be for all of them. Sez me. But as always - - YMMV.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 30, 2014 20:14:27 GMT -5
Gee not everyone that struggles with depression is doomed to a horrible life. I know that, but if not treated the whole family will suffer and he isn't getting any help and it won't disappear by itself!!!! Oh, I agree completely. But, he has to want to get help as well. He has to come to that point of understanding he would benefit. And, I have already suggested a couples counseling as a start to maybe to address the issues.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Dec 30, 2014 20:14:41 GMT -5
Taking your budget, I pulled out all the essentials that I'm guessing are necessary & difficult to cut:
mortgage/escrow $1,711 groceries & household supplies 572 (You may be able to cut this, but if you cut dining out & school lunches, this may be hard to drop significantly) student loan 471 auto loan 331 auto fuel 276 EF savings 250 auto maintenance/registration 160 afterschool childcare 150 (maybe??) auto insurance 124 LTD & life insurance 116 electric 97 landline/internet 82 (left for the ebay business) gas 34 garbage 18 TOTAL $4,392
Does your income alone cover that? My guess is no based on your income split, but it would depend on the various deductions & such. My guess is you can't even cover the basic, basics without additional income from him. And you will hate this budget, this leaves room for nothing fun. She might be able to cover it all, it will come close, it won't be fun but she just might. She said she grossed 74k ... so that comes to $6,167/month Now depending on if she contributes to her own pension or not and withholding/deductions it will come really close!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 30, 2014 22:16:13 GMT -5
You need it.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Dec 30, 2014 22:44:40 GMT -5
Taking your budget, I pulled out all the essentials that I'm guessing are necessary & difficult to cut:
mortgage/escrow $1,711 groceries & household supplies 572 (You may be able to cut this, but if you cut dining out & school lunches, this may be hard to drop significantly) student loan 471 auto loan 331 auto fuel 276 EF savings 250 auto maintenance/registration 160 afterschool childcare 150 (maybe??) auto insurance 124 LTD & life insurance 116 electric 97 landline/internet 82 (left for the ebay business) gas 34 garbage 18 TOTAL $4,392
Does your income alone cover that? My guess is no based on your income split, but it would depend on the various deductions & such. My guess is you can't even cover the basic, basics without additional income from him. And you will hate this budget, this leaves room for nothing fun.
I would be terrified he won't be able to bring in enough income or will start to have problems working for himself & not be productive enough to help cover the bills. I would want to be in a position where his income is totally optional & you can accept not having it before making the leap to self-employment.
Now my perception is totally colored by having an ex that always dreamed of being self-employed. He started many side businesses with gusto that always made good money in the beginning & they all eventually failed because he lacked the actual will to be self-employed. A history of depression & a growing inventory taking up space would worry me too. Why does he have a growing inventory just sitting? I don't buy the lack of time excuse because he is finding time to buy it. I would be worried he already doesn't enjoy one absolutely necessary aspect of the business (the selling part) & isn't focused enough on that.
That covers my opinion on the self-employment...another post to follow in a bit.
That was my first thought too: he loves the hunt and the thrill that negotiating a deal gives him. But selling it isn't as fun - hence the growing inventory. His actions (based on your description) sound very emotional vs logical. IMVHO a person should be very logical about large endeavors about starting a business.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 31, 2014 6:28:51 GMT -5
So many people are so much better than me. I actually very unceremoniously dumped someone who actually thought I would keep working while he bought and sold used cars for a "profit!" First I started laughing because I thought he was kidding, then I told him to get the F out of my house. Thank god I wasn't married to him. Someone who pulled this stunt would find themselves on the receiving end of some pretty drastic moves. He's too precious and fragile to get mental help? Then he's too precious and fragile to start a business. I see no good end to this and you will end up supporting him while he has a "breakdown." Take a cue from my former sister in law. All she can do is hope and pray he dies before she does because she refuses to give him half of what she earned and alimony. He just gave her a dog he wanted for Christmas. You should see the pictures he posted on FB. The look on her face is pissed. She works many hours and extra shifts every week while he plays with the dog and takes pictures of the lake they live on, thanks to her.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 31, 2014 9:33:44 GMT -5
I know there is. It's pride. She's the only one out of the four kids to stay married. Everyone else left including me.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 31, 2014 9:35:29 GMT -5
What's sad is that when she had the chance to leave him before it would have cost her an arm and a leg and we both told her to, she didn't. She's been unhappy for years. Even had an affair but it didn't help. i hope she is now. She deserves some happiness.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 31, 2014 10:00:45 GMT -5
I know there is. It's pride. She's the only one out of the four kids to stay married. Everyone else left including me. And, for some people, it's just the Devil you know versus the one you don't. Sorry but I see a lot of men today who are not living up to their responsibilities and seem to have no qualms whatsoever about women supporting their arses while they sit and play video games.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 31, 2014 10:02:15 GMT -5
Me, too. That's why if I survive DF, soon to be DH-tomorrow btw, I'm never going down that road again.
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Post by Amateur Genealogist on Dec 31, 2014 10:05:20 GMT -5
Depression is a horrible disease that negatively impacts the whole family . It can permeate every aspect of family life (relationships, finances, family stability - everything). The sooner OP can find a way to convince DH to seek treatment, the better things will be for all of them. Sez me. But as always - - YMMV. wow - what if the only reason he is doing this is due to depression he blames work for? What if treatment changed his mind on this whole thing? I'm sure that's it! If he only worked 40 hours/week at this job and got some mental health help, I bet he wouldn't quit. Reduced hours where he works is not an option, so he'd have to find something else to do. Getting help and a new job "working for the man" would both be really hard sells to him on my part.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 31, 2014 10:08:55 GMT -5
The problem with "If only's" is that they never end. "If only" he worked 40hrs or less, "if only" there wasn't The Man. There are going to be a never ending supply of "if onlys" no matter what anyone does.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Dec 31, 2014 10:12:45 GMT -5
What's to stop him from bailing and having another breakdown when he realizes that doing his side hobby as a full time job isn't as awesome as he thinks?
No way would I support DH in this endeavor. Too much risk. If he were to approach me with a solid plan like ryan's then I would be potentially open to the idea, especially if he planned on keeping his job with "the man".
But to just quit and sell on Ebay because he thinks it'll solve all his problems? I don't freaking think so.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Dec 31, 2014 10:13:07 GMT -5
I'm sure that's it! If he only worked 40 hours/week at this job and got some mental health help, I bet he wouldn't quit. Reduced hours where he works is not an option, so he'd have to find something else to do. Getting help and a new job "working for the man" would both be really hard sells to him on my part. Only if you let it be. He is asking you to support not only him, but the entire family on your income alone. You have the power here to insist on what you want to insist on. And - out to the universe here - why is that when men make the money - women feel they have no power, and whent he woman makes the money - she feels no power tip toeing around the man's ego? A question for the ages and the sages here. You are asking the wrong person because I make 2X what my wife makes and she got all the power. Heck she carries my balls in her purse and only let me take them out to play on special occasions.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Dec 31, 2014 10:15:06 GMT -5
I know there is. It's pride. She's the only one out of the four kids to stay married. Everyone else left including me. And, for some people, it's just the Devil you know versus the one you don't. Sorry but I see a lot of men today who are not living up to their responsibilities and seem to have no qualms whatsoever about women supporting their arses while they sit and play video games. My mother painted little ceramic leafs instead of playing video games until Dad got tired of supporting her ass.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 31, 2014 10:15:56 GMT -5
We call that a "kitchen pass."
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 31, 2014 10:17:02 GMT -5
No one should be supporting a grown adult unless they BOTH are on board with it.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 31, 2014 10:17:55 GMT -5
And, for some people, it's just the Devil you know versus the one you don't. Sorry but I see a lot of men today who are not living up to their responsibilities and seem to have no qualms whatsoever about women supporting their arses while they sit and play video games. My mother painted little ceramic leafs instead of playing video games until Dad got tired of supporting her ass. There's that too. There is no shortage of lazy arse women either. However, when I was growing up, most of the moms were homemakers and they absolutely were engaged in taking care of the home, cooking, running the household. But, yes, there are plenty of women plopping their behinds in front of Facebook too. Not sure why I can't make a statement without always have to "qualify" it with 'oh but that applies elsewhere too" type comment.
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