Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 28, 2014 16:09:11 GMT -5
How many items does he need to sell per month to replace his current monthly income? What is the maximum number of items he has ever made in a month? Are you going to take out a loan to buy more inventory? Is he set up as an S Corp or sole proprietor or LLC? Are you taking into account the taxes that will need to be paid, the possible need to file quarterly, etc?
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 28, 2014 16:12:55 GMT -5
Nobody has a crystal ball. And, as long as you are going into it eyes wide open, then there is nothing wrong with taking a shot at your dream. If you are willing to to do what it takes to move in that direction then it may be worth trying.
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justme
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Post by justme on Dec 28, 2014 16:14:22 GMT -5
Things don't look quite as dire as others are seeing, in my opinion. He currently makes 24k a year with limited benefits right? It's not that hard to replace that salary. Can he do so on Ebay? Probably, plenty of people make that much selling on Amazon or Ebay. The question is, does he have the product supply to do so? Reselling yard sale finds and whatnot can be lucrative, but it's also the most hit and miss way to do online sales, because you have no steady supply of product. He'll spend most of his time scouring yard sales, antique stores, flea markets, estate sales, etc. The time and gas add up quick. Selling new products is more reliable on the supply side, for obvious reasons, but has lower margins and he has to find a product that's not already saturated, where the supplier isn't already selling directly on Ebay/Amazon, and that could always change after he's put in time building up sales. Either way the money will be sporadic in the beginning, and might not ever snowball and become reliable. The decent things going for it are extremely low overhead and a pretty modest income goal. It's doable, but will take a good chunk of time, as in it would probably be a lot easier to work for somebody else and make more than $24k a year, with less risk, less stress, fewer hours invested, and no financial strain on the household. $42k.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Dec 28, 2014 17:20:03 GMT -5
I also look at the bookkeeping end of things. If he is buying product for resale is he getting receipts from person he bought from - I've never seen anyone give a receipt at a yard sale but they might. And yes I know he will be buying from other sources but all outgoing/incoming money has to be documentated. What about state sales tax returns that may be required - sometimes even on internet sales.
Will he be paying himself a salary? If not the FICA/Medicare % will be 15.3 plus any fed and/or state tax on money. Also have to generate W-2 if drawing salary.
Have the guidelines changed about considering the difference between a hobby/business if he keeps claiming loss year after year (long time since had to check this out so just wondering)
I guess I am just saying I hope they have all their ducks in a row if this is considered a business for tax purposes.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 28, 2014 17:22:22 GMT -5
I just worry about you getting stuck with supporting him forever. IF he makes a good faith effort to seek counseling, IF you get some debts paid off and a healthy EF, IF he makes decent money while you are monitoring his sales, THEN you give it a shot, with the written, signed, and witnessed provision that in X amount of time he makes a good living at it or he gets another job. In that written agreement, no way does he get alimony or anything that he has not contributed to, like your retirement. IF he is willing to do all those things, take a chance. IF he isn't, his actions are loud and clear.
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phil5185
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Post by phil5185 on Dec 28, 2014 18:39:08 GMT -5
You probably said elsewhere - but what does he do?
Well, he's certainly not the first to hit teacher-burnout, the education system has become almost dysfunctional in many districts. Just among our relatives, 3 have left teaching. And a friend of mine bailed. Unrealistic rules/regs, screwy administrators, parents-from-hell, slacker teachers, dysfunctional compensation algorithm, etc.
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Post by Amateur Genealogist on Dec 28, 2014 19:24:57 GMT -5
You probably said elsewhere - but what does he do? He works in the vending supply industry - stocking mostly.
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Post by Amateur Genealogist on Dec 28, 2014 19:28:29 GMT -5
Wouldn't selling full time on eBay be a lot of desk work? And he'd start over with zero vacation time and never have any. If he doesn't work he won't have any pay. He realize the risk he's taking. At least to start, he would probably feel like every day is a vacation just because he's not having to put on a uniform and go into a job. I've heard him say he'd work part-time next year (2016) while he transitioned.
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Post by Amateur Genealogist on Dec 28, 2014 20:08:56 GMT -5
How many items does he need to sell per month to replace his current monthly income? What is the maximum number of items he has ever made in a month? Are you going to take out a loan to buy more inventory? Is he set up as an S Corp or sole proprietor or LLC? Are you taking into account the taxes that will need to be paid, the possible need to file quarterly, etc? He says his goal is $200/day in sales as a bare minimum, split between money into the family budget and money back in the business to pay fees/buy inventory. At that rate, he'd be replacing most of his income. He says at the rate he's going, that won't be difficult. 2015 will be the telling year. This year was a big learning curve, and each month got better and better. He won't take out a loan. He's firm about that. That's why he didn't take his friend's start-up capital. Even though that was an investment, DH saw it as a moral obligation to repay. We will file taxes, but haven't figured that all out yet.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 28, 2014 20:35:10 GMT -5
Well, good. He can take everything he doesn't need to sell stuff and pay off debt . If you see a lot of debt getting paid off then you know this might work out.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Dec 28, 2014 20:39:33 GMT -5
He seems like a good guy and you are trying your best to be supportive.
For the next week, with him, come up with a plan on how you are going to cut back to fit everything under your salary. Everything is on the table and up for debate.
And see how January goes... Make some changes and work on February. Remember, just your salary. And take his salary to pay down debt and beef up savings.
This way when the times comes for him to quit and give the business a go: - you won't have to worry about covering the bills - you will have less bills/debt to worry about - you will have a bigger EF - he will have less stress about making a profit ASAP to contribute to the family pot.
Good luck!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2014 20:40:14 GMT -5
Is he paying taxes on the money he is making?
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Dec 28, 2014 21:03:20 GMT -5
Wouldn't selling full time on eBay be a lot of desk work? And he'd start over with zero vacation time and never have any. If he doesn't work he won't have any pay. He realize the risk he's taking. At least to start, he would probably feel like every day is a vacation just because he's not having to put on a uniform and go into a job. I've heard him say he'd work part-time next year (2016) while he transitioned. Perhaps you are wording things very poorly, but this whole thread has screamed "not in a partnership." You guys are entering into a huge enterprise with a whole lot of emotional baggage ready to hurl at each other. You really need to be able to work TOGETHER, which means both of you have equal say in things.
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justme
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Post by justme on Dec 28, 2014 21:03:41 GMT -5
200 revenue will replace his income? So his margin is 80 percent. In other words for every 200 he sells his expenses, including cost of goods sold, is only 40? I find that incredibly hard to believe.
Eta my numbers are from splitting 42k by 52 weeks and dividing by 5 days a week. The numbers would be slightly different if it's 7 days a week or something.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Dec 28, 2014 21:06:18 GMT -5
How many items does he need to sell per month to replace his current monthly income? What is the maximum number of items he has ever made in a month? Are you going to take out a loan to buy more inventory? Is he set up as an S Corp or sole proprietor or LLC? Are you taking into account the taxes that will need to be paid, the possible need to file quarterly, etc? He says his goal is $200/day in sales as a bare minimum, split between money into the family budget and money back in the business to pay fees/buy inventory. At that rate, he'd be replacing most of his income. He says at the rate he's going, that won't be difficult. 2015 will be the telling year. This year was a big learning curve, and each month got better and better. He won't take out a loan. He's firm about that. That's why he didn't take his friend's start-up capital. Even though that was an investment, DH saw it as a moral obligation to repay. We will file taxes, but haven't figured that all out yet.
$200/day in sales does not equate $200/day in profit. If this isn't just some midlife crisis and it's an valid biz idea, he needs to have a business plan with all this ducks in a row number-wise. And if it's a valid biz idea, he shouldn't be defensive about forecasting and crunching numbers with you.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Dec 28, 2014 22:05:13 GMT -5
My husband's family sells stuff. Some of them are retired while others stopped working regular jobs to sell stuff. Their whole houses, garages, sheds and more sheds have been taken over with inventory. They are up all night doing stuff with their inventory. God help them, they love it. Shudder, you couldn't pay me enough.
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wonderland
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Post by wonderland on Dec 28, 2014 22:05:50 GMT -5
Why won't he get help for depression? It is an illness, just like the flu or cancer or a heart condition. There is treatment. If he is looking at this as an answer to his depression, he will crash and burn. After the excitement of "I'm free from the man" or whatever wears off, and the day to day realities of running a business set in, the depression will be back. He will shut down. Without a boss on him to make sure work gets done, he will easily fall into very bad habits. I have seen it happen. Because looking for the answer to depression from outside sources never ends well. The depression has to be fixed internally.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Dec 28, 2014 22:53:57 GMT -5
Is he paying taxes on the money he is making? If not, he should be. If he is using paypal, at some point, they send information about sales. Not sure what eBay does as I sell maybe once or twice a year. I have sold two collectible items at a gain and reported them on Schedule D and paid the collectibles tax rate. That is higher than the SE rate and I am not in the business of selling. However, the sales of the collectibles did go on my tax return.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Dec 29, 2014 1:35:42 GMT -5
Why won't he get help for depression? It is an illness, just like the flu or cancer or a heart condition. There is treatment. If he is looking at this as an answer to his depression, he will crash and burn. After the excitement of "I'm free from the man" or whatever wears off, and the day to day realities of running a business set in, the depression will be back. He will shut down. Without a boss on him to make sure work gets done, he will easily fall into very bad habits. I have seen it happen. Because looking for the answer to depression from outside sources never ends well. The depression has to be fixed internally. x 1000. In a million years, I would never recommend someone depressed start a business.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Dec 29, 2014 8:52:57 GMT -5
Is he paying taxes on the money he is making? See her post 131 about figuring that out.
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Post by Amateur Genealogist on Dec 29, 2014 14:13:01 GMT -5
I really do appreciate everyone's suggestions. Thank you!
Guess what I was thinking about first thing when I woke up this morning? When I wrote this post I had no idea it would go off in this direction, but you've given me a lot to think about, and I'm more worried now than ever before.
On the money side, I made several calls this morning and managed to cut homeowner's insurance, landline/internet, and satellite people to the tune of $95!, $15, and $22/month, respectively. I had shopped the insurance probably 3 years ago, but prices weren't any different then. I haven't convinced myself to get rid of satellite altogether just yet because I can swing it on my salary. Maybe - we'll see after January.
On the mental health side of things, that will be a big battle. The men in his family DO NOT go to doctors/counselors or take medication, and definitely not for mental health issues. He's no different. He won't even take ibuprofen. I have to think more about how to handle that.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 29, 2014 14:28:00 GMT -5
Good for you for being proactive on the financial front. However regarding his mental health issues, only HE can own that. You cannot own his depression for him. You cannot make it better for him nor can you make him seek help he doesn't want to seek. You can only be supportive. You may want to approach it from a couples counseling point of view. And, btw, you don't have to be on the verge of divorce to have counseling and make a good marriage even better. He might be willing to listen to somebody in that regard.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Dec 29, 2014 15:37:35 GMT -5
Shooby beat me to it. What is the contingency plan if his side business doesn't work out? Or is he so determined that he hasn't considered it may not work out? Determination is a great thing, but this would worry me. He will just go back to a regular job, just not the one he's got. He won't have a choice in that matter, and he knows that, but he's not letting himself think like that just now. He seems very confident that this will work. shrug. I hope he's right. 1. What kind of shape is your pension plan in right now? I know you said something about the state constitution. Or basically, what state are you in? 2. Who's the poster from IL who does a 6 figure side business online? Find him or his old posts and have your husband consider adding that kind of thing to his online store. Hired his dad to do the warehouse type stuff because Dad needed a job and it's working out for them, more or less? I, personally, think getting your finances in order is a good idea. I also think, as 1/2 of a couple in their early 40s with 2 kids (ours are 5 and 6), your husband is freaking nuts to do this to your family. Depression or no depression. (we're dealing with some too)
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Dec 29, 2014 15:43:17 GMT -5
He will just go back to a regular job, just not the one he's got. He won't have a choice in that matter, and he knows that, but he's not letting himself think like that just now. He seems very confident that this will work. shrug. I hope he's right. 1. What kind of shape is your pension plan in right now? I know you said something about the state constitution. Or basically, what state are you in? 2. Who's the poster from IL who does a 6 figure side business online? Find him or his old posts and have your husband consider adding that kind of thing to his online store. Hired his dad to do the warehouse type stuff because Dad needed a job and it's working out for them, more or less? I, personally, think getting your finances in order is a good idea. I also think, as 1/2 of a couple in their early 40s with 2 kids (ours are 5 and 6), your husband is freaking nuts to do this to your family. Depression or no depression. (we're dealing with some too) Tagging Ryan
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Dec 29, 2014 15:51:01 GMT -5
Thanks Mid. Amateur Genealogist - find ryan's old posts. He went over the whole thing fairly recently (last 3-4 months) and I don't think he posts much so it shouldn't be too hard to find from his history.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Dec 29, 2014 16:06:39 GMT -5
<<< Kittensaver steps on her soap box >>>
Depression is not a personality flaw. Depression is not a character weakness. Depression is a real medical condition (a brain chemistry problem) that if left untreated and/or unacknowledged can have profound negative consequences for the patient, his/her family and his/her future. But the good news is that because it is a real medical condition, there are real treatment answers out there. Many people are hesitant or outright refuse to seek treatment - or even acknowledge a problem at all - because of the stigma that still exists in our social circles and the larger culture. There is absolutely no need to "suffer in silence" or hide behind a wall of fear or stigma. If caught early enough, many persons can return to a fulfilling, depression-free life.
If you - as his life partner - can help "normalize" his depression as a legitimate medical condition, you will be providing a big piece of "stigma busting" and encourage him to get needed help. He doesn't have to say anything to people who will stigmatize him for it (aka, other male family members), but definitely talk to him "straight" (kindly but firmly) about the long-range consequences for him and for all of you to allow a medical condition to go untreated. He does NOT need to suffer with this legitimate condition when help is available.
Good luck, God Bless and many hugs from someone who has 20 years of experience working in the public mental health system and has "lived experience" with family suffering from depression.
<<< Kittensaver steps off her soap box >>>
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Dec 29, 2014 16:11:02 GMT -5
Beth stands up and gives kittensaver a standing ovation, complete with whistles and hoots.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2014 17:18:09 GMT -5
I really do appreciate everyone's suggestions. Thank you! Guess what I was thinking about first thing when I woke up this morning? When I wrote this post I had no idea it would go off in this direction, but you've given me a lot to think about, and I'm more worried now than ever before. On the money side, I made several calls this morning and managed to cut homeowner's insurance, landline/internet, and satellite people to the tune of $95!, $15, and $22/month, respectively. I had shopped the insurance probably 3 years ago, but prices weren't any different then. I haven't convinced myself to get rid of satellite altogether just yet because I can swing it on my salary. Maybe - we'll see after January. On the mental health side of things, that will be a big battle. The men in his family DO NOT go to doctors/counselors or take medication, and definitely not for mental health issues. He's no different. He won't even take ibuprofen. I have to think more about how to handle that. Maybe a marriage 'coach' helping you sort out feelings about his plan and your new roles and expectations would be a good first start. depression surely is real kitten, but at this point it seems self diagnosed? So I'm not sure of criteria used...
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Dec 29, 2014 17:42:50 GMT -5
OP, I think addressing the need for counseling as part of the "prework" needed for the business might help. Saying you want to make sure you're a team and there aren't any underlying resentments as you head into the endeavor would help you both, etc. OTOH, you could also simply say he can't quit unless you guys do counseling first. He seems pretty comfortable arbitrarily demanding things, he might as well expect the same from you. FWIW, DH and I went to counseling a few times several years ago. The counselor always said (and it made sense to me) that it's much easier to help a derailment when it's fresh vs when each person has been dug in their heels due to resentment, etc. DH and I are pretty good at communicating now and rarely fight, but if I start to get a sense that we're getting out of alignment, I'd be back to the counselor in a flash so we could work though it. It's so much better than spending months/years quietly pissed off.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Dec 29, 2014 18:44:20 GMT -5
I really do appreciate everyone's suggestions. Thank you! Guess what I was thinking about first thing when I woke up this morning? When I wrote this post I had no idea it would go off in this direction, but you've given me a lot to think about, and I'm more worried now than ever before. On the money side, I made several calls this morning and managed to cut homeowner's insurance, landline/internet, and satellite people to the tune of $95!, $15, and $22/month, respectively. I had shopped the insurance probably 3 years ago, but prices weren't any different then. I haven't convinced myself to get rid of satellite altogether just yet because I can swing it on my salary. Maybe - we'll see after January. On the mental health side of things, that will be a big battle. The men in his family DO NOT go to doctors/counselors or take medication, and definitely not for mental health issues. He's no different. He won't even take ibuprofen. I have to think more about how to handle that. If this is the case then I am wondering who diagnosed him with depression? Did he say he suffers from depression? Glad you have found some ways to cut expenses. Every little bit will help
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