zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 28, 2014 9:14:06 GMT -5
I guess it is. My job was hot, dirty, physically demanding, and possibly skin cancer inducing. Yes, I managed to stay in it because I had responsibilities to others. I guess I could have found someone to pay my bills while I played but I was stupid, I guess. I love these people who find someone to pay off their student loans and other things. I guess those people know how to find the ones that'll pick up their slack. Kind of reminds me of those talk shows where women fight over these loser men that have umpteen babies with other women and no job. What are you fighting for? The BOOBY prize?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 28, 2014 9:20:43 GMT -5
That being said, if you're willing to support someone who wants to quit working because he wants to, then you need to get your ducks in a row. Pay off debt and get a good EF. Plus, have a plan of salary replacement or close to it within X amount of time or back to work.
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Post by Amateur Genealogist on Dec 28, 2014 9:25:11 GMT -5
I was going to call you on that $229/m for eating out - but then I realized that we (a retired couple) spend more than that on breakfast - we get up early and head out nearly every morning. I can't see much wrong with that budget - very detailed and reasonable - you're supposed to enjoy your daily routine, not punish yourselves. I would quit funding the EF, $5000 is about what we keep. A $5000 EF covers a new Water heater, DW, W/D, AC unit, auto trans on a car, the deductibles in case of illness/accident. The thing that is not covered is prolonged (6 months or more) unemployment for both earners. And I would not set aside that much 'dead money' in an EF, instead that kind of event means cashing out a 401k, selling a house, etc. Fortunately, the odds of dual & simultaneous unemployment are very remote. The $4800/yr going into the 401k is great, the key is to keep it working at 11%/yr. I would keep the car loan and SL. And be patient with the mortgages, you have about a $200k first w/ a HARM rate plus the $37k with the nasty rate. And a good goal would be to refi into a single 30 yr loan at a low fixed rate that is a 30-yr 'keeper'. In 3 or 4 years that $250k house could easily be a $300k house - and then start trolling for a single $250k 30 yr. And I would allocate the extra income stream to things that earn 11%/yr - ie, put your money to it's 'highest and best use' (rather than prepaying debt). You could direct some into a Roth, some into a taxable account, and some more into the 401k - it doesn't matter how you split them as long as they are all 11%/yr investments. I watched one of those going up in North Iowa a few years ago, looks like a great concept. Lots of thermal capacity, should last a jillion yrs. I'd be nervous with only $5K in an EF. I'm already nervous with it only being $13K. I'd invest more except I'm anticipating another big correction in the stock market in the next year or so which is when we'd most likely need to have access to the money. And, yes, we LOVE our insulated concrete form walls - very low heating bills in a cold climate, cool in the summer without air, quiet, and uniform heat throughout the house (no cold corners).
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 28, 2014 9:36:33 GMT -5
Selling things on Ebay doesn't sound like much of a plan. And, $20/hr with no bennies whatsoever as a self employed person is not going to sustain you. If you are OK with being the major breadwinner while he is home doing this, that is your business. But, with 2 small children, it sounds more like a pipe dream to me. But, who knows, I guess there are people making money doing that. But, I wonder how many people have managed to make a career out of it? I think it is fine as a side business to earn extra money but that's just my opinion. You have to also factor in lost opportunity cost if he quits a career that he already has experience in, the loss and cost of benefits, and the loss and cost of future earnings balanced versus an ebay business. As for "hating" one's job, there is a point in life where you have to accept that you have responsibilities. Most of the jobs today aren't all that difficult compared to jobs of old. Most of us work in air conditioned or heated offices, aren't breaking our backs and have a lunch break so "hate" seems a pretty strong word. Sometimes we need to think about how we talk to ourselves as well. But, again, I don't know the whole ebay market thing. And, there are obviously people who have done well taking a more entrepreneurial approach. But, you want proceed cautiously and not blow this up when you have 2 young kids to fend for.
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Post by Amateur Genealogist on Dec 28, 2014 9:39:17 GMT -5
Isn't it great when someone can just quit their job because they don't like it? It floors me when I read things like this I'm not thrilled with the idea myself. There's a lot going on in his mind to make him do this - livid at capitalism/rat race society American culture/working for the man, sees friends who are self-employed and happy, and no doubt some depression (but extremely happy with his side business). I do think he tends to make mountains out of molehills, though. He says if he only worked 8 hours a day, he probably wouldn't quit. Like I mentioned earlier, he's an all or nothing kind of a guy and has trouble thinking of anything else he could do where he could be happy. We've had the conversation about considering every other job in the world countless times over the years, but he's always got a reason why some other type of job won't work.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 28, 2014 9:40:59 GMT -5
He hates capitalism but is going to become a capitalist entrepreneur selling things on ebay? Oh, ok, lol.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 28, 2014 9:41:49 GMT -5
But, I do agree, he has to kind of figure it out for himself. You can give suggestions but it is something he has to work through.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Dec 28, 2014 9:45:56 GMT -5
Has he talked to the self employed friends? Not just vague questions, but taken them out for a cup of coffee and really questioned them and most importantly "listened".
Get the full story, the full scope. Possibly not breaking even 5 years into it, working 100 of hours and bringing home nothing, taking on a second PT job to supplement his business, etc.
Don't just look at the end result : self employed friends doing well and happy and think: that is a sweet and easy gig, I want to be like that. You need the WHOLE story, good and bad, and knowing that the majority of small businesses do not succeed!
Does he have all those facts?
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Post by Amateur Genealogist on Dec 28, 2014 9:49:56 GMT -5
How much saving do you have? How long would your husband expect this business to replace 100% his current income? We have $13K EF, $58K in Roth (haven't contributed to this for years), $65K in 401(k) and $12K in 529. I've heard him say many times he will never "work for the man" again. I've have gotten him to understand that he cannot have this mentality for me to support him quitting and convinced him to at least work part-time somewhere to have at least something regular coming in. I'm working now to convince him to have other things lined up for down times, like plowing snow with his truck in the winter and landscaping services in the summer. But, he truly believes he can replace 100% of his income with eBay.
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Post by Amateur Genealogist on Dec 28, 2014 9:51:22 GMT -5
Isn't it great when someone can just quit their job because they don't like it? It floors me when I read things like this It's a lot easier when you have someone to willing to take up the slack and most of the financial responsibility. Yes, I am the breadwinner - thankfully!
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 28, 2014 9:51:32 GMT -5
Well, I have seen people totally blow up their lives. All or none thinking can be an asset or it can be a problem. A acquaintance of mine quit a great job as the director of medical records at a hospital to pursue some self employed dream. Well, I wound up running into later on and she was a cashier at Walmart. She was nearing 50 when she quit and she totally blew up her life for that. He said his job would be OK if he wasnt' working more than 8 hrs? How many hours does he think he will work if self employed? Self employed people tend to work much more than that. I think that is kind of a big red flag.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 28, 2014 9:52:55 GMT -5
Do you have life insurance and disability? What would happen if you couldn't work?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2014 9:54:19 GMT -5
The last year I taught, I freelanced as well. I didn't quit until I was putting in our coffers (savings) ... An amount that was equal to the bare minimum I thought I'd need to contribute. And at the time we could easily live on one income.
You don't seem to be set up on one income. And husbands side business is currently not contributing everything.
What did you think of my idea to start living on your income now and send all of his to debt reduction...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2014 9:55:29 GMT -5
Who carries benefits?
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 28, 2014 9:55:39 GMT -5
However, I quit a good job to take my shot at self employment and it has worked out well. As long as you feel confident he will recognize that it isn't working out and go back to work. I would set a time frame where by he needs to be replacing x income and if not he needs to realize it is a hobby and move back to regular employment if it isn't producing.
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flutterby
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Post by flutterby on Dec 28, 2014 9:59:08 GMT -5
Shooby beat me to it. What is the contingency plan if his side business doesn't work out? Or is he so determined that he hasn't considered it may not work out? Determination is a great thing, but this would worry me.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Dec 28, 2014 10:00:09 GMT -5
The only people making money off of EBAY is the founder and BOD of EBAY
I have to wonder about this thread. She seems reasonable, and says he is the sensible one money wise, and yet, he wants to buy and sell things on the internet for a living. Does not compute.
Myself, if the housing market has improved, combine the two mortgages together, or at least double down on the second mortgage payment. Also skip Panera Bread at all times.
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Post by Amateur Genealogist on Dec 28, 2014 10:00:22 GMT -5
Well, start sending all his income to debt now then, and design a new budget on what you earn only. It will take some cutting, but it's what's needed if his deadline and plan are firm. I have to agree with oped... If your husband is going into business for himself best to assume his income will be near zero the first couple of years. So you need to re-align your household spending to fit under your income. Easier said if you are the breadwinner, harder if he is the breadwinner. (Ex: easier for us to cut back if my wife decide to go into business for herself 40k - vs me going into business for myself 80k+bonus). I hope in your case you are the main breadwinner. And stop using your pension as an excuse or you will save nothing outside of that pension. But I am bias, I have no faith in pensions... I am the breadwinner. Per oped's suggestion yesterday I did run the numbers with just my income. It would be doable, but it wouldn't be fun. When I was thinking of cutting my budget, I wasn't expecting to go cold turkey on everything. Makes me sick to think about it. I know makes me sound like a big baby.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Dec 28, 2014 10:04:31 GMT -5
I have to agree with oped... If your husband is going into business for himself best to assume his income will be near zero the first couple of years. So you need to re-align your household spending to fit under your income. Easier said if you are the breadwinner, harder if he is the breadwinner. (Ex: easier for us to cut back if my wife decide to go into business for herself 40k - vs me going into business for myself 80k+bonus). I hope in your case you are the main breadwinner. And stop using your pension as an excuse or you will save nothing outside of that pension. But I am bias, I have no faith in pensions... I am the breadwinner. Per oped's suggestion yesterday I did run the numbers with just my income. It would be doable, but it wouldn't be fun. When I was thinking of cutting my budget, I wasn't expecting to go cold turkey on everything. Makes me sick to think about it. I know makes me sound like a big baby. But do you have a choice? Your husband plan to quit and it seems you have given him your blessing. Gotta do what you gotta do. What is your gross? What is his?
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Dec 28, 2014 10:06:40 GMT -5
It's a lot easier when you have someone to willing to take up the slack and most of the financial responsibility. Yes, I am the breadwinner - thankfully! Just keep in mind that most owner businesses just break even in five years if he is still in business in five years. So you might want a five year plan for footing all the living expenses and hope that life doesn't backfire as it has a way of doing sometimes. But from your posts it sounds like you are already the breadwinner so guess there really isn't any change taking place?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2014 10:08:20 GMT -5
No, I know it won't be fun. But hopefully it won't be necessary for long either. But... 1) it will give husband a picture of what life will look like if there is no income coming in on his side.
2) it will give you a chance to agressively pay down debt so that when he quits you will be in a better position to live on one income if necessary.
Make it it a game to see how little you all can spend and how creative you can be.
If husband really hates the consumer society, this should be right up his alley...
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flutterby
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Post by flutterby on Dec 28, 2014 10:09:51 GMT -5
You do not sound like a big baby. You sound justifiably concerned. It seems like he is telling you, not asking you.
Are the student loans both of your? Or just yours?
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Post by Amateur Genealogist on Dec 28, 2014 10:10:18 GMT -5
He hates capitalism but is going to become a capitalist entrepreneur selling things on ebay? Oh, ok, lol. Poetic, isn't it? I told him the same thing. His response: He sees the capitalists as greedy and taking too much for themselves (think Walmart family), whereas he's just trying to make a basic living.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Dec 28, 2014 10:11:21 GMT -5
Yes, I am the breadwinner - thankfully! Just keep in mind that most owner businesses just break even in five years if he is still in business in five years. So you might want a five year plan for footing all the living expenses and hope that life doesn't backfire as it has a way of doing sometimes. But from your posts it sounds like you are already the breadwinner so guess there really isn't any change taking place? Depends by how much she is the breadwinner which is why I asked for their individual gross. If it is a 60/40 split... She has to kiss goodbye to 40% of their household income for the next 5 years while on post #1 it seems they were breaking even. That is a big adjustment....
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Dec 28, 2014 10:12:55 GMT -5
He hates capitalism but is going to become a capitalist entrepreneur selling things on ebay? Oh, ok, lol. Poetic, isn't it? I told him the same thing. His response: He sees the capitalists as greedy and taking too much for themselves (think Walmart family), whereas he's just trying to make a basic living. Can I call BULLSHIT!!! That is what I call changing the definition of something to fit one's agenda!
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Dec 28, 2014 10:17:44 GMT -5
Do you guys usually get a tax refund?
If yes, next year I suggest sending that straight to your EF and buff that baby up in case you cannot convince your husband to not quit his day job.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 28, 2014 10:19:47 GMT -5
Soo, the founders of Walmart are greedy but the owners of Ebay are not? Hmm.....lol.
Yeah, it won't be fun, but it sounds like it is going to be a lot less fun for you than for him.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 28, 2014 10:20:19 GMT -5
Stuff like this scares the crap out of me. Sometimes two incomes are barely enough to stay afloat. But give him the plan to get a lot of debt paid off first and a healthy EF and a time limit. No way do you want to get to a point of you're fed up and want out of this deal and you have to support him forever because he has no job.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 28, 2014 10:21:29 GMT -5
My former sister in law is supporting her husband, the photographer. She isn't happy about it. When she saw a lawyer to see how she would come out, she was even less happy.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Dec 28, 2014 10:23:27 GMT -5
Stuff like this scares the crap out of me. Sometimes two incomes are barely enough to stay afloat. But give him the plan to get a lot of debt paid off first and a healthy EF and a time limit. No way do you want to get to a point of you're fed up and want out of this deal and you have to support him forever because he has no job. That is not a bad plan... You can quit after: - debt is paid off - EF is up to 20k - Income from eBay is replacing 50% of current income (if he has to spend weekends, all free time on it so be it). But you must give up on the dream if: - after 5 years you cannot replace your previous income - in the red 2-3 consecutive a years - not bringing home any money. Something like that could work. Good thinking Zib!
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