Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 28, 2014 10:23:43 GMT -5
One other thing to consider, there is something in life called "traction". It can become very easy to adjust to the comfort of staying at home all the time to work and not have to jump through the hoops for The Man. It becomes harder to return to that if your business has failed. BTW, has he tried other MLM type businesses? Or, has he only focused on this? Has he been tossed in the wind with MLM type promises before moving on to Ebay or do you truly think this is a solid business concept?
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Post by Amateur Genealogist on Dec 28, 2014 10:24:15 GMT -5
Has he talked to the self employed friends? Not just vague questions, but taken them out for a cup of coffee and really questioned them and most importantly "listened". Get the full story, the full scope. Possibly not breaking even 5 years into it, working 100 of hours and bringing home nothing, taking on a second PT job to supplement his business, etc. Don't just look at the end result : self employed friends doing well and happy and think: that is a sweet and easy gig, I want to be like that. You need the WHOLE story, good and bad, and knowing that the majority of small businesses do not succeed! Does he have all those facts? They do okay, but don't make a good living - if they weren't married to gainfully employed people, they'd be "living in a van down by the river" (Chris Farley reference). But, they aren't in the buying/selling business either, so he doesn't see the comparison. He said he knows he'll be working 100 hours/week, and he's fine with that because he loves it. He said it doesn't feel like work because it's so enjoyable. He said he feels like this is a good fit for him, and that's why he won't consider not doing it. He said he will do his part for the family and says he's committed to replacing his income. That said, he thinks we live too high on the hog, and we don't need nearly as much as we have, so if we can cut our expenses, then we can get by on less so it won't matter. He probably would be happy living in a van down by the river, so I think the right balance is between what he wants us to have and what I want to have.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 28, 2014 10:24:58 GMT -5
Yup, your SIL would have to pay to support him with alimony and fork over half the assets.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Dec 28, 2014 10:28:27 GMT -5
Has he talked to the self employed friends? Not just vague questions, but taken them out for a cup of coffee and really questioned them and most importantly "listened". Get the full story, the full scope. Possibly not breaking even 5 years into it, working 100 of hours and bringing home nothing, taking on a second PT job to supplement his business, etc. Don't just look at the end result : self employed friends doing well and happy and think: that is a sweet and easy gig, I want to be like that. You need the WHOLE story, good and bad, and knowing that the majority of small businesses do not succeed! Does he have all those facts? They do okay, but don't make a good living - if they weren't married to gainfully employed people, they'd be "living in a van down by the river" (Chris Farley reference). But, they aren't in the buying/selling business either, so he doesn't see the comparison. He said he knows he'll be working 100 hours/week, and he's fine with that because he loves it. He said it doesn't feel like work because it's so enjoyable. He said he feels like this is a good fit for him, and that's why he won't consider not doing it. He said he will do his part for the family and says he's committed to replacing his income. That said, he thinks we live too high on the hog, and we don't need nearly as much as we have, so if we can cut our expenses, then we can get by on less so it won't matter. He probably would be happy living in a van down by the river, so I think the right balance is between what he wants us to have and what I want to have. Let me put this the most politically correct way possible: YOU ARE SCREWED!!! What does he gross now vs what you gross? Your husband is not being realistic thinking he will love working 100hours and see no money coming in. Where is Sum Dum Gai when you need him?
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Post by Amateur Genealogist on Dec 28, 2014 10:29:55 GMT -5
Do you have life insurance and disability? What would happen if you couldn't work? We have life insurance and disability. My disability is through work; we pay for his out of pocket. I have 2 months of sick days saved up now and disability that will kick in after 3 months. That would replace 60% of my income. He'd pretty much have to keep a regular job if I became permanently disabled.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 28, 2014 10:30:32 GMT -5
He isn't going to love working 100 hours a week to fill ebay orders. And, if he does sooo what does that do to the quality of your family life?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2014 10:31:56 GMT -5
Has he talked to the self employed friends? Not just vague questions, but taken them out for a cup of coffee and really questioned them and most importantly "listened". Get the full story, the full scope. Possibly not breaking even 5 years into it, working 100 of hours and bringing home nothing, taking on a second PT job to supplement his business, etc. Don't just look at the end result : self employed friends doing well and happy and think: that is a sweet and easy gig, I want to be like that. You need the WHOLE story, good and bad, and knowing that the majority of small businesses do not succeed! Does he have all those facts? They do okay, but don't make a good living - if they weren't married to gainfully employed people, they'd be "living in a van down by the river" (Chris Farley reference). But, they aren't in the buying/selling business either, so he doesn't see the comparison. He said he knows he'll be working 100 hours/week, and he's fine with that because he loves it. He said it doesn't feel like work because it's so enjoyable. He said he feels like this is a good fit for him, and that's why he won't consider not doing it. He said he will do his part for the family and says he's committed to replacing his income. That said, he thinks we live too high on the hog, and we don't need nearly as much as we have, so if we can cut our expenses, then we can get by on less so it won't matter. He probably would be happy living in a van down by the river, so I think the right balance is between what he wants us to have and what I want to have. There are bigger issues at play here then. I think I would defiantly make debt payment a precursor of quitting and a minimum expectation from him in 5 years contingent. This way you will be able to afford more of what you want on your income, and make sure he realizes he can't just contribute nothing forever. Is he working 100 hours now? If not he DSM be beefing up ebay stuff now. Will he be contributing more to household chores, etc. Since he'll be working more from home.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Dec 28, 2014 10:32:10 GMT -5
He isn't going to love working 100 hours a week to fill ebay orders. And, if he does sooo what does that do to the quality of your family life? It is not just that, it is working 100 hours and not breaking even which a lot of new business go through. How is he going to handle that? Is he prepared for that?
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 28, 2014 10:34:43 GMT -5
In your heart of hearts, you know if this is the right move or not. And, it isn't all about him and what he wants to do. Sorry he isn't fond of his job but that's life. He can suck it up if it provides well or find something else. But, you know deep down if this is a good move. None of us know your DH. If he is a highly responsible self starter and you are confident that he will recognize if he is failing and will move back to traditional employment, then it may be a plan you can live with. But, if something in the back of your mind is screaming that this is just a pipe dream, then I would not just roll over and let him steam roll the family finances.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Dec 28, 2014 10:35:08 GMT -5
They do okay, but don't make a good living - if they weren't married to gainfully employed people, they'd be "living in a van down by the river" (Chris Farley reference). But, they aren't in the buying/selling business either, so he doesn't see the comparison. He said he knows he'll be working 100 hours/week, and he's fine with that because he loves it. He said it doesn't feel like work because it's so enjoyable. He said he feels like this is a good fit for him, and that's why he won't consider not doing it. He said he will do his part for the family and says he's committed to replacing his income. That said, he thinks we live too high on the hog, and we don't need nearly as much as we have, so if we can cut our expenses, then we can get by on less so it won't matter. He probably would be happy living in a van down by the river, so I think the right balance is between what he wants us to have and what I want to have. Since there are only 168 hrs in a week that leaves you to be breadwinner and left to handle every other aspect of your lives. Exactly what does doing his part for the family entail? Unless he doesn't do anything outside of work now then maybe this won't be a change and no problem for you.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 28, 2014 10:36:30 GMT -5
We have all heard how he feels about it, but how do you feel about it? Will it bother you if you spend several years supporting him? Will it bother you if you feel the weight of the family finances on your shoulder?
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Dec 28, 2014 10:37:29 GMT -5
Do you have life insurance and disability? What would happen if you couldn't work? We have life insurance and disability. My disability is through work; we pay for his out of pocket. I have 2 months of sick days saved up now and disability that will kick in after 3 months. That would replace 60% of my income. He'd pretty much have to keep a regular job if I became permanently disabled.
Don't count on it if he has been out of the job market for years selling on ebay. He'll probably file for divorce before getting a regular job.
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Post by Amateur Genealogist on Dec 28, 2014 10:42:49 GMT -5
The last year I taught, I freelanced as well. I didn't quit until I was putting in our coffers (savings) ... An amount that was equal to the bare minimum I thought I'd need to contribute. And at the time we could easily live on one income. You don't seem to be set up on one income. And husbands side business is currently not contributing everything. What did you think of my idea to start living on your income now and send all of his to debt reduction... We could swing it in an absolutely perfect month with bare bones spending, no kids' extra-curriculars, and no unexpected expenses. Selfishly, I want my kids to continue with their activities (band, Girls on the Run, t-ball, swim lessons). Maybe, I keep them in those, but cut everything else.
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Post by Amateur Genealogist on Dec 28, 2014 10:43:25 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2014 10:46:28 GMT -5
The last year I taught, I freelanced as well. I didn't quit until I was putting in our coffers (savings) ... An amount that was equal to the bare minimum I thought I'd need to contribute. And at the time we could easily live on one income. You don't seem to be set up on one income. And husbands side business is currently not contributing everything. What did you think of my idea to start living on your income now and send all of his to debt reduction... We could swing it in an absolutely perfect month with bare bones spending, no kids' extra-curriculars, and no unexpected expenses. Selfishly, I want my kids to continue with their activities (band, Girls on the Run, t-ball, swim lessons). Maybe, I keep them in those, but cut everything else. If you send all of husbands income to the second mortgage, could you pay it off before he quits? If you pay it off how much does that remove from expenses? If the second is gone can you refi the first for better terms? How ow about he needs to put all of his full time job to debt payment AND replace kid activities with Ebay sales until his quit date...
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Post by Amateur Genealogist on Dec 28, 2014 10:50:15 GMT -5
I am the breadwinner. Per oped's suggestion yesterday I did run the numbers with just my income. It would be doable, but it wouldn't be fun. When I was thinking of cutting my budget, I wasn't expecting to go cold turkey on everything. Makes me sick to think about it. I know makes me sound like a big baby. But do you have a choice? Your husband plan to quit and it seems you have given him your blessing. Gotta do what you gotta do. What is your gross? What is his? My gross is $74. His is $42. I guess by not demanding that he stay at his job, I've given him my blessing. But, with his history of depression...long story...I don't feel that I can make that kind of demand, especially when there might be another solution...cut the spending.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Dec 28, 2014 10:52:11 GMT -5
He said he will do his part for the family and says he's committed to replacing his income. That said, he thinks we live too high on the hog, and we don't need nearly as much as we have, so if we can cut our expenses, then we can get by on less so it won't matter. He probably would be happy living in a van down by the river, so I think the right balance is between what he wants us to have and what I want to have. This isn't a money issue. It's a communication/negotiation issue. Have you considered seeing a therapist counselor to work through these issues. I work alot. More than I should. When I share this with my husband, he doesn't, essentially tell me STFU, that I don't get a say, even though I personally receive very little benefit from all the hard work I do. My family, now, they reap the rewards.. Me personally..um, no. He tells me that he appreciates what I do and asks me what I need to deal, and tries to make it happen. Of course it also helps that I married someone that has the same financial outlook as myself. And we had all this stuff ironed out before marriage. Stuff like this breeds resentment, which again is no good for the marriage.
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Post by Amateur Genealogist on Dec 28, 2014 10:52:55 GMT -5
Shooby beat me to it. What is the contingency plan if his side business doesn't work out? Or is he so determined that he hasn't considered it may not work out? Determination is a great thing, but this would worry me. He will just go back to a regular job, just not the one he's got. He won't have a choice in that matter, and he knows that, but he's not letting himself think like that just now. He seems very confident that this will work. shrug. I hope he's right.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Dec 28, 2014 10:55:46 GMT -5
Who agreed to spend so much money on the house?
We gross what you do, between 70 and 75K. Our mortgage is half of yours.
We've never had a car loan. I've also never owned a new car. I get hand-me-down cars, even though I make 70% of our families income. So who pushed for the car loan? Why not a cash car to keep expenses down?
Why not give lessons as part of your kids' presents? My DD1 is getting tap shoes for Christmas. She still has birthday presents that have been untouched. DS gets baseball gear for his birthday. The kid get bikes for gift giving occasions.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 28, 2014 10:56:12 GMT -5
If he has a history of depression, I would absolutely rethink working at home! Working at home is very isolating. It tends to make depression worse. That in of itself would be a good reason to NOT do this. And, no it isn't "selfish" for you to want to have your kids in extracurriculars. My kids play on travel teams and we all enjoy it. You are talking of your selfishness? I think him wanting to blow up your financial stability has him a bit more in the selfish corner in that regard. However, again, I don't know you or your situation or spouse. Maybe this is a good fit and plan. None of us can know that one way or the other. You have to go with your gut. But your gut should have equal say to his.
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Post by Amateur Genealogist on Dec 28, 2014 10:57:59 GMT -5
No, I know it won't be fun. But hopefully it won't be necessary for long either. But... 1) it will give husband a picture of what life will look like if there is no income coming in on his side. 2) it will give you a chance to agressively pay down debt so that when he quits you will be in a better position to live on one income if necessary. Make it it a game to see how little you all can spend and how creative you can be. If husband really hates the consumer society, this should be right up his alley... He will LOVE this. He'll say, see I told you so. You don't need all that stuff to make you happy. We can live on a lot less. I love the idea of aggressively paying down debt, too, but I don't want this cut lifestyle to be our new normal. I want to travel again, but am fine holding off for now. I want to help my kids cash flow college. I want to finish the basement. etc.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 28, 2014 10:58:15 GMT -5
As for becoming self employed, I didnt' just "wing" it. I didn't overextend myself on a home and other debts. I lived below my means. We had money banked and a very simple lifestyle. So, when it came time to jump, I could jump. But, too many people do not discipline themselves to lay the groundwork. Would you consider selling your home for this dream to happen? If not, then i think you need to rethink your and his level of commitment.
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Post by Amateur Genealogist on Dec 28, 2014 10:58:50 GMT -5
You do not sound like a big baby. You sound justifiably concerned. It seems like he is telling you, not asking you.
Are the student loans both of your? Or just yours? They are consolidated. Mostly mine, though.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Dec 28, 2014 10:59:08 GMT -5
I'm also wondering how long your DH has mentioned he doesn't want to work the hours? Did he just wake up a few weeks ago, and decide this? Or has he been mentioning it?
I have to say, I do feel bad that your DH is getting such a bath here.
Sure, staying at home likely won't help his depression, but being stuck at a job he doesn't want because his family has more stuff than he wants isn't going to help the depression, either.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 28, 2014 11:00:17 GMT -5
It isn't either/or. It isn't continue to work a job you hate or quit and sell at home on Ebay. There are a zillion options in between that.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 28, 2014 11:01:25 GMT -5
And, being at home strapped for cash and having financial stresses when you have quit your job and having the pressure to make your sales quota isn't particularly good for depression either.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Dec 28, 2014 11:02:35 GMT -5
It isn't either/or. It isn't continue to work a job you hate or quit and sell at home on Ebay. There are a zillion options in between that. Absolutely. But there isn't a lot we don't know about, either. And bottom line, it's still a communication/negotiation issue, not a money issue. We are also getting everything through the eyes of the OP. Her husband could easily come here complaining that his wife spends too much money, and how if she would just cut back, he could find a job that would make him happy. We'd all demonize her
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Dec 28, 2014 11:03:02 GMT -5
Shooby beat me to it. What is the contingency plan if his side business doesn't work out? Or is he so determined that he hasn't considered it may not work out? Determination is a great thing, but this would worry me. He will just go back to a regular job, just not the one he's got. He won't have a choice in that matter, and he knows that, but he's not letting himself think like that just now. He seems very confident that this will work. shrug. I hope he's right. In what industry is he? Can he look for another job that has more fixed hours / family friendly? 8 hours and your done kinda job... If he thinks he will be happy working 8 hours then he should look for a job where he can jus work 8 hours and call it a day!
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Post by Amateur Genealogist on Dec 28, 2014 11:03:41 GMT -5
Soo, the founders of Walmart are greedy but the owners of Ebay are not? Hmm.....lol.
Yeah, it won't be fun, but it sounds like it is going to be a lot less fun for you than for him. I say Walmart, but what he means is all crony capitalists - Eminent domain, subsidies, bailouts, lobbyists - he sees the small businessman as different than all that - more moral and justified. This is all going to be MUCH less fun for me than him.
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Post by Amateur Genealogist on Dec 28, 2014 11:04:12 GMT -5
Do you guys usually get a tax refund? If yes, next year I suggest sending that straight to your EF and buff that baby up in case you cannot convince your husband to not quit his day job. No refund. Usually end up paying about $500.
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