swamp
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Post by swamp on Dec 12, 2014 16:12:21 GMT -5
I'm a full time human (of the female variety), with kids and a job. I give as much of myself as is necessary to each. Good enough? ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png) No. You suck. Next.
![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 16:22:55 GMT -5
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Dec 12, 2014 16:25:40 GMT -5
You all can have the discussion where you pretend to not know what full time vs. part time parent means among yourselves.
Or we can have a discussion about how this doesn't make any fucking sense and never will.
You're either a parent or you're not. How many hours a day you spend with your kid really doesn't play into that at all. A parent who is deployed overseas is still a parent. A parent who is divorced and only has his/her kid half the time is still a parent. And so forth.
IMO it is neither normal nor healthy for kids to spend all day every day with only their parents (apart from very young babies). For you to describe anything less than that as "part time parenting" is insulting and ridiculous. My kid doesn't call her daycare provider (or even her grandma, who looks after her 3 days a week at the moment) "Mommy." I'm Mommy. She's well aware of that, even during the tragic hours we are separated so I can make money at my job away from home.
I think I'm starting to figure out what the problem is here. We're talking about two different things. I am simply providing a statement of fact: a person's priorities, as well as the allocation of their time determines whether parenting is a full time or part time responsibility for that person.
Look, we get it. People who have to work for a living are suckers. People who choose not to have millions of dollars in passive investment income before having the audacity to reproduce are losers. People who value their life and identity outside their home and children have whacked priorities. Have I pretty much got it right?
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Dec 12, 2014 16:27:14 GMT -5
I'm now picturing a sort of reverse Idiocracy where ONLY people who have the means to stay home with their children full time and/or can work from home full time are allowed to have children and everyone else is SOL.
WILL THE HUMAN RACE SURVIVE? Coming soon to a theater near you.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Dec 12, 2014 16:33:50 GMT -5
My chest needs to get the message that I am a part time parent. Pumping at work sucks. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png)
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Dec 12, 2014 17:20:05 GMT -5
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Dec 12, 2014 17:22:40 GMT -5
My chest needs to get the message that I am a part time parent. Pumping at work sucks. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png) You just need to get more comfortable in your own lazy part-time parent skin. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/star.gif) KEEP DOING YOU! ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/star.gif)
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techguy
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Post by techguy on Dec 12, 2014 18:04:45 GMT -5
You're either a parent or you're not. How many hours a day you spend with your kid really doesn't play into that at all. A parent who is deployed overseas is still a parent. A parent who is divorced and only has his/her kid half the time is still a parent. And so forth. Well, there is Good parenting and Not So Good parenting. I would consider a parent who is deployed overseas in the Not So Good parenting camp. Sorry, but this is non-existent parenting. And I don't want to offend any deployed parents, but let's face the fact that this situation is horrible to the family unit. It causes the family to be disjointed and the worst is when they have to move every so often due to a change of geographic duties. Why can't we admit that not everyone is a good parent? There are bad SAHM parents and good SAHM parents. There are good working parents and bad working parents. But I will say that it's easier to be a good parent when you SAH since there isn't an external factor like work which takes up a large chuck of a person's time and energy. It it wrong that I want my son to be able to grow up and make enough money to support the household with a SAHM, yet I want my daughter to marry a good guy who can support the household?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 18:13:19 GMT -5
I want my son and daughter to grow up equipped with the skills and education necessary to allow them to decide for themselves, in their own family units, what their lives and the lives of their children will look like.
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siralynn
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Post by siralynn on Dec 12, 2014 18:23:55 GMT -5
You're either a parent or you're not. How many hours a day you spend with your kid really doesn't play into that at all. A parent who is deployed overseas is still a parent. A parent who is divorced and only has his/her kid half the time is still a parent. And so forth. But I will say that it's easier to be a good parent when you SAH since there isn't an external factor like work which takes up a large chuck of a person's time and energy. Haven't studies shown that it's easiest to be a good parent when the parent is happy - i.e. the kids benefit when the parent makes the right choice for THEM - whether it's working or SAH? I'll try to find a link later, but right now I've got to go catch my vanpool so that I can get home in a reasonable amount of time and see my toddler. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png)
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Dec 12, 2014 18:24:48 GMT -5
You're either a parent or you're not. How many hours a day you spend with your kid really doesn't play into that at all. A parent who is deployed overseas is still a parent. A parent who is divorced and only has his/her kid half the time is still a parent. And so forth. Well, there is Good parenting and Not So Good parenting. I would consider a parent who is deployed overseas in the Not So Good parenting camp. Sorry, but this is non-existent parenting. And I don't want to offend any deployed parents, but let's face the fact that this situation is horrible to the family unit. It causes the family to be disjointed and the worst is when they have to move every so often due to a change of geographic duties. Why can't we admit that not everyone is a good parent? There are bad SAHM parents and good SAHM parents. There are good working parents and bad working parents. But I will say that it's easier to be a good parent when you SAH since there isn't an external factor like work which takes up a large chuck of a person's time and energy. It it wrong that I want my son to be able to grow up and make enough money to support the household with a SAHM, yet I want my daughter to marry a good guy who can support the household?Depends - is that a serious question?
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Dec 12, 2014 18:29:30 GMT -5
Why can't we admit that not everyone is a good parent? There are bad SAHM parents and good SAHM parents. There are good working parents and bad working parents.
I didn't say all parents were good parents. Far from it. But whether you work or not has NOTHING to do with it. Time spent with your child daily, while important, is not the deciding factor on whether you're a good parent or not. It also has pretty much no bearing on how much of a "priority" you have made your family.
Lots of people work hellish jobs with endless hours for years while their kids are young in the hopes that they'll be in a good enough career position later to spend more time with them. Does this mean their family isn't a "priority" to them? What if the answer is "yes in the short term, no in the long term"?
You can be a great parent while spending very little time with your child - not easy, but possible. You can also be a horrible parent who spends tons of time with your child. So the idea that spending tons of time with your child means you're making them more of a "priority" than someone who works a lot and is away from said child more than they'd like to be... is laughable. At best.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Dec 12, 2014 18:34:32 GMT -5
I just have to jump in and point out we've gone almost 10 pages without someone deleting their account. I think that's a record on this topic.
That is all. Carry on.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Dec 12, 2014 18:41:50 GMT -5
You're either a parent or you're not. How many hours a day you spend with your kid really doesn't play into that at all. A parent who is deployed overseas is still a parent. A parent who is divorced and only has his/her kid half the time is still a parent. And so forth. Well, there is Good parenting and Not So Good parenting. I would consider a parent who is deployed overseas in the Not So Good parenting camp. Sorry, but this is non-existent parenting. And I don't want to offend any deployed parents, but let's face the fact that this situation is horrible to the family unit. It causes the family to be disjointed and the worst is when they have to move every so often due to a change of geographic duties. Why can't we admit that not everyone is a good parent? There are bad SAHM parents and good SAHM parents. There are good working parents and bad working parents. But I will say that it's easier to be a good parent when you SAH since there isn't an external factor like work which takes up a large chuck of a person's time and energy. It it wrong that I want my son to be able to grow up and make enough money to support the household with a SAHM, yet I want my daughter to marry a good guy who can support the household? As the former child of a parent who was deployed for the better part of my life (until i was 16) you are wrong. Just because someone is there 24/7 parent does not make them a good parent and the opposite is also true. i would hazard a guess that my military upbringing made me more flexible and able to change easier than most......and this has served me well for the most of my adulthood. Moving doesn't send me into a panic as it does many, and I do what needs to be done to make things work, sometimes with very little. Unless you have experience otherwise, these have been the observations I made over the years actually living this life.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 18:56:26 GMT -5
You're either a parent or you're not. How many hours a day you spend with your kid really doesn't play into that at all. A parent who is deployed overseas is still a parent. A parent who is divorced and only has his/her kid half the time is still a parent. And so forth. Well, there is Good parenting and Not So Good parenting. I would consider a parent who is deployed overseas in the Not So Good parenting camp. Sorry, but this is non-existent parenting. And I don't want to offend any deployed parents, but let's face the fact that this situation is horrible to the family unit. It causes the family to be disjointed and the worst is when they have to move every so often due to a change of geographic duties. Why can't we admit that not everyone is a good parent? There are bad SAHM parents and good SAHM parents. There are good working parents and bad working parents. But I will say that it's easier to be a good parent when you SAH since there isn't an external factor like work which takes up a large chuck of a person's time and energy. It it wrong that I want my son to be able to grow up and make enough money to support the household with a SAHM, yet I want my daughter to marry a good guy who can support the household? I am utterly astonished that you just called parents who choose to enlist and defend our country as 'Not so Good Parents'. That is one of the most pathetic things I have ever heard and you should be thanking them every day for their service that allows you to spew forth this bullshit! the rest of your post is so much crap it's not worth reading.
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techguy
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Post by techguy on Dec 12, 2014 19:16:29 GMT -5
Well, there is Good parenting and Not So Good parenting. I would consider a parent who is deployed overseas in the Not So Good parenting camp. Sorry, but this is non-existent parenting. And I don't want to offend any deployed parents, but let's face the fact that this situation is horrible to the family unit. It causes the family to be disjointed and the worst is when they have to move every so often due to a change of geographic duties. Why can't we admit that not everyone is a good parent? There are bad SAHM parents and good SAHM parents. There are good working parents and bad working parents. But I will say that it's easier to be a good parent when you SAH since there isn't an external factor like work which takes up a large chuck of a person's time and energy. It it wrong that I want my son to be able to grow up and make enough money to support the household with a SAHM, yet I want my daughter to marry a good guy who can support the household? I am utterly astonished that you just called parents who choose to enlist and defend our country as 'Not so Good Parents'. That is one of the most pathetic things I have ever heard and you should be thanking them every day for their service that allows you to spew forth this bullshit! the rest of your post is so much crap it's not worth reading. Oh please, deployed overseas people are doing a great job at defending our country and serving the nation. However, they are absent at home and do not serve the family unit. Nothing wrong with enlisting, but how can you be a good parent if you are not around at home? Give the good thing(s) deployment does for the family except for providing a paycheck and benefit? If I said that I was a business man travelling the world, would you say that I am a Good parent? Of course not!
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techguy
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Post by techguy on Dec 12, 2014 19:17:36 GMT -5
Well, there is Good parenting and Not So Good parenting. I would consider a parent who is deployed overseas in the Not So Good parenting camp. Sorry, but this is non-existent parenting. And I don't want to offend any deployed parents, but let's face the fact that this situation is horrible to the family unit. It causes the family to be disjointed and the worst is when they have to move every so often due to a change of geographic duties. Why can't we admit that not everyone is a good parent? There are bad SAHM parents and good SAHM parents. There are good working parents and bad working parents. But I will say that it's easier to be a good parent when you SAH since there isn't an external factor like work which takes up a large chuck of a person's time and energy. It it wrong that I want my son to be able to grow up and make enough money to support the household with a SAHM, yet I want my daughter to marry a good guy who can support the household? As the former child of a parent who was deployed for the better part of my life (until i was 16) you are wrong. Just because someone is there 24/7 parent does not make them a good parent and the opposite is also true. i would hazard a guess that my military upbringing made me more flexible and able to change easier than most......and this has served me well for the most of my adulthood. Moving doesn't send me into a panic as it does many, and I do what needs to be done to make things work, sometimes with very little. Unless you have experience otherwise, these have been the observations I made over the years actually living this life. Ok, I didn't want to go there, but since you brought it up, what makes your deployed overseas parent such a good parent to you until you were 16 (besides giving you the flexibilty of moving without panicing)?
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techguy
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Post by techguy on Dec 12, 2014 19:26:23 GMT -5
You can be a great parent while spending very little time with your child - not easy, but possible. You can also be a horrible parent who spends tons of time with your child. So the idea that spending tons of time with your child means you're making them more of a "priority" than someone who works a lot and is away from said child more than they'd like to be... is laughable. At best. How can you be a great parent if you spend "very little time with your child"? How can you 'parent' if you're not around and spend so very little time with them? I guess your definition of a great parent is more lax than the standard. (General you, not picking on you)
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techguy
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Post by techguy on Dec 12, 2014 19:30:44 GMT -5
I want my son and daughter to grow up equipped with the skills and education necessary to allow them to decide for themselves, in their own family units, what their lives and the lives of their children will look like. Yes, of course we all want that. BUT I don't want my daughter to marry some dude who can't provide for the family and needs her to work in order to make ends meet. If she wants to work, fine, but NEEDING to work is a different story. A good life is about having choices, and I would like my daughter to have a choice in working or not... Unfortunately, too many women have no choice and HAVE to work. I don't want my child to be in this position, and I think many would agree with me in this aspect.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Dec 12, 2014 19:31:36 GMT -5
Oh, how do I suck, let me count the ways...part-time mom, part-time daughter, part time wife, apparently...very part-time woman with her own needs/desires/ambitions...
Carry on, I see the discussion has moved on...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 19:41:42 GMT -5
I want my son and daughter to grow up equipped with the skills and education necessary to allow them to decide for themselves, in their own family units, what their lives and the lives of their children will look like. Yes, of course we all want that. BUT I don't want my daughter to marry some dude who can't provide for the family and needs her to work in order to make ends meet. If she wants to work, fine, but NEEDING to work is a different story. A good life is about having choices, and I would like my daughter to have a choice in working or not... Unfortunately, too many women have no choice and HAVE to work. I don't want my child to be in this position, and I think many would agree with me in this aspect. I would like both of my children to have that choice. I don't think gender matters.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Dec 12, 2014 19:44:03 GMT -5
As the former child of a parent who was deployed for the better part of my life (until i was 16) you are wrong. Just because someone is there 24/7 parent does not make them a good parent and the opposite is also true. i would hazard a guess that my military upbringing made me more flexible and able to change easier than most......and this has served me well for the most of my adulthood. Moving doesn't send me into a panic as it does many, and I do what needs to be done to make things work, sometimes with very little. Unless you have experience otherwise, these have been the observations I made over the years actually living this life. Ok, I didn't want to go there, but since you brought it up, what makes your deployed parent such a good parent to you until you were 16 (besides giving you the flexibilty of moving without panicing)? Because when he was home, he was home 200% of the time. i can't begin to count the things my dad taught me when he was home. However, he was most definitely NOT an uninvolved parent. Lemme start with that he taught me basic car repair, how to cook. He tutored me in math. He taught me how to get hit, and how to get back up. My ability to deal with my past years disability could be attributed to the way he taught me to deal with life. He taught me how to hit to right field, the rules of football, and to appreciate jazz. He took me deep sea fishing, how to choose fish from boats off a wharf, and how to open oysters. As a young adult, he helped me deal with ethical issues no 22 year old should have to wrestle with. Who I am now I can attribute to BOTH my parents, pieces of me in each that I can clearly recognize. That is not a poor parent, it is a parent that used his time wisely and did his damnedest while he had the opportunity.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 12, 2014 19:54:30 GMT -5
If they are both alive or even one of them, please tell them this.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Dec 12, 2014 20:15:13 GMT -5
It it wrong that I want my son to be able to grow up and make enough money to support the household with a SAHM, yet I want my daughter to marry a good guy who can support the household? Depends on the decade. I just checked the calendar and it's 2014, so, yes, I'd say, yes you are wrong. Look around you. It's not a Madmen world anymore. Seriously, it's bad enough my DH has to fight the stereotype that the measure of a man's worth is his paycheck. I'll be damned if my son has to fight that to. What happens if your daughter turns out to be a lesbian? That will put a rather large crimp in the dreams you have for daughter. What if your kids don't want to be parents? That also will put a rather large crimp in your hopes/dreams for your children.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Dec 12, 2014 21:06:46 GMT -5
I am utterly astonished that you just called parents who choose to enlist and defend our country as 'Not so Good Parents'. That is one of the most pathetic things I have ever heard and you should be thanking them every day for their service that allows you to spew forth this bullshit! the rest of your post is so much crap it's not worth reading. Oh please, deployed overseas people are doing a great job at defending our country and serving the nation. However, they are absent at home and do not serve the family unit. Nothing wrong with enlisting, but how can you be a good parent if you are not around at home? Give the good thing(s) deployment does for the family except for providing a paycheck and benefit? If I said that I was a business man travelling the world, would you say that I am a Good parent? Of course not! Part of being a good parent is the paychecks and the benefits. All of us could spend 100% of our time with our kids if we just opted not to work. But we realize it isn't just the quantity of time that makes us good parents. Providing for our family is important too. And for some the best way to do that is a career in the military.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 12, 2014 23:50:02 GMT -5
I tend to agree. My wife works, she makes good money-- but we both have arranged our work around our family and not the other way around. We both work remotely- no need to go to an office. This means that full time parenting-- which is how I define kids not needing full time day care / after care on a regular basis, etc. I define full time parenting as full time parenting. It's not a nuanced term, and it's not that complicated to understand. If you can work during school hours which are what? 7:00 to 3:00 give or take 30 minutes? Then that's great. So....you still send your kids to school for 6-7 hours/day? That horrible, liberal indoctrination camp that really just functions as a babysitter for your little ones? Seems to me a real full-time parent (per your definition) would home-school their kids. Sorry, but by your own definition I don't think you would qualify as a 'full-time parent'. But, whatever you want to believe that makes you feel like you are a better parent than others. And feel free to make up definitions while you are at it to insult others. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/smiley.png) Definitions do not praise or insult anyone. Definitions just are. I just made the mistake of assuming that making the distinction between someone who's primary role is work, and someone who's primary role is parenting is not terribly controversial. I forgot that there are those who think it's possible that they be both primarily a parent, and primarily an employee even though it sounds as silly to a rational reader as it does to me as I just typed it. The alternative would be to admit that one is not primarily a parent, or homemaker and I guess we're reading into it that I find that morally reprehensible and there's some judgment attached to the statement. As I said before- far from it. I'm simply pointing out that the words "Stay At Home" are inaccurate at best, and at worst deliberately condescending. A person- mother or father, may simply have placed a higher priority on raising the children and keeping the home than being employed, running a business, or otherwise generating income. The over-senstivity on the subject is a sign of low self-esteem, or guilt- justified or not, I won't be the one to say- and not anything I've said. We're human. We're not omnipresent. We simply cannot be a full time employee and full time parent. We can't be primarily an employee, and primarily a parent. And even though time isn't the ONLY way to measure our priorities, it's heavily weighted in determining someone's priorities. After all, time is the essence of life. What defines our priorities better than how we spend our time? And look, I understand a person going to work and saying, "I'm doing this for my family", but whatever our reasons- there are only so many hours in a day and how we spend them is how we spend them.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 13, 2014 0:05:00 GMT -5
You're either a parent or you're not. How many hours a day you spend with your kid really doesn't play into that at all. A parent who is deployed overseas is still a parent. A parent who is divorced and only has his/her kid half the time is still a parent. And so forth. Well, there is Good parenting and Not So Good parenting. I would consider a parent who is deployed overseas in the Not So Good parenting camp. Sorry, but this is non-existent parenting. And I don't want to offend any deployed parents, but let's face the fact that this situation is horrible to the family unit. It causes the family to be disjointed and the worst is when they have to move every so often due to a change of geographic duties. Why can't we admit that not everyone is a good parent? There are bad SAHM parents and good SAHM parents. There are good working parents and bad working parents. But I will say that it's easier to be a good parent when you SAH since there isn't an external factor like work which takes up a large chuck of a person's time and energy. It it wrong that I want my son to be able to grow up and make enough money to support the household with a SAHM, yet I want my daughter to marry a good guy who can support the household? I tend to agree. A parent who is deployed overseas is not a parent at all while they're deployed. Granted, there's the phone and Skype, etc. but really, this is negligible interaction. Again, I'm probably making the mistake of assuming that it's not terribly controversial to state that this situation is not optimal for marriage and child rearing. Am I ungrateful for those that make the sacrifice? No. But I do especially feel for the kids while mom or dad is deployed. I'm with those that say gender doesn't matter so much, but in just about any modern, Western economy, to say that two people HAVE to work is simply not true. It's a choice. I wish more people would make the choice to be there for their kids- especially in those first several years- until somewhere between 3 and 5 I think a kid's place is with a parent.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2014 0:15:46 GMT -5
I could make the argument, and actually frequently do, that n-5 actually aren't the most important ages for a kid to be with parents all day every day. For the most part, as long as you ensure a good caregiver, anyone can feed, change and sooth an infant. In terms of character development and shaping a human being, I think middle school ages are actually the most important. While I don't encourage true absentee parenting (ie tuning out and doing nothing) at any step, if you can only be home (and I usually make the argument if you can only homeschool) for a few years... Middle school would be the ages I'd pick...
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Dec 13, 2014 0:41:50 GMT -5
I could make the argument, and actually frequently do, that n-5 actually aren't the most important ages for a kid to be with parents all day every day. For the most part, as long as you ensure a good caregiver, anyone can feed, change and sooth an infant. In terms of character development and shaping a human being, I think middle school ages are actually the most important. While I don't encourage true absentee parenting (ie tuning out and doing nothing) at any step, if you can only be home (and I usually make the argument if you can only homeschool) for a few years... Middle school would be the ages I'd pick... I could not agree with this statement more. Actually, I said this almost verbatim the other day.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Dec 13, 2014 0:57:56 GMT -5
You can be a great parent while spending very little time with your child - not easy, but possible. You can also be a horrible parent who spends tons of time with your child. So the idea that spending tons of time with your child means you're making them more of a "priority" than someone who works a lot and is away from said child more than they'd like to be... is laughable. At best. How can you be a great parent if you spend "very little time with your child"? How can you 'parent' if you're not around and spend so very little time with them? I guess your definition of a great parent is more lax than the standard. (General you, not picking on you) For starters, not being around as much as you'd like FOR A CERTAIN TIME IN ORDER TO SECURE A BETTER/MORE FLEXIBLE FUTURE LATER is not the same as checking out entirely, e.g. absentee parents. If my husband were to go into sales, he would be making six figures easy. We would also never see him, and for our family right now we've decided that's not a worthwhile sacrifice. But we strongly considered it (and still are to some extent) because a few years of living like that would mean he could stay home by the time our daughter was in middle school, if not earlier. There's a really serious argument for going that route. It would mean rarely seeing us in her early years, only to be with her completely full time later. You can't tell me that's not prioritizing your family's future. Secondly, the QUALITY of that time matters. Plenty of parents are absorbed in their iPhone apps whenever they're not working. If you're playing Angry Birds and your kid is watching Teletubbies, I don't think you can argue that's great quality time. And maybe that's okay if you spend six hours a day with your kid and you have plenty of chances to be with them. Contrast that with a parent who gets one hour a day with his/her kids. Do you think that parent is likely to blow off that hour, or really engage with their kid because they take the time more seriously and have less of it to waste? Finally, leading by example. Let's imagine you're a single dad and you could either a) go on various welfare programs, not work, and spend all day with your kid or b) work two entry level jobs, build your skills, and hope to one day have a single job with great benefits such as flexible hours. Assume you will need to explain your choice to your children at some point. Which would you rather justify to them? I'd personally rather teach my kids that my first priority is keeping them healthy with good insurance, safe with a roof over their head in a decent area, and well fed with healthy food. After that comes all the quality time. With hopefully much, much more quality time together down the road when things are more stable. So can you be a "good parent" who never sees his/her children? Absolutely. I'd go so far as to say there are certain instances wherein not seeing your kids as much as you'd like because you're working to secure their futures makes you a better parent than if you'd chosen the alternative.
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