imanangel
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jun 8, 2014 12:18:00 GMT -5
Posts: 1,042
|
Post by imanangel on Dec 13, 2014 3:27:54 GMT -5
FB ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/heart.png) her fencebuddy back. (Uh oh I called you a fencebuddy. Too passive aggressive? Here, have a flower ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/rose.gif) Girls like flowers.) Sorry if my comment about having mostly guy friends offended you. Maybe I am jaded about female friendships because of the majority of the ones I am around tend to be completely opposite of me in every way (politically, religiously, wear their husband's rank...etc). I do not fit in well with other military wives. It is hard being a liberal in this group. It is hard having a different opinion. I have been black balled, I have been gossiped about, I have been told I was a horrible military wife, etc. I was not saying that ALL women are horrible. So, yes, in THIS "world" I have mostly guy friends because they do not treat me that way. In the civilian world, I do have a lot of female friends.
|
|
imanangel
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jun 8, 2014 12:18:00 GMT -5
Posts: 1,042
|
Post by imanangel on Dec 13, 2014 3:37:40 GMT -5
I am utterly astonished that you just called parents who choose to enlist and defend our country as 'Not so Good Parents'. That is one of the most pathetic things I have ever heard and you should be thanking them every day for their service that allows you to spew forth this bullshit! the rest of your post is so much crap it's not worth reading. Oh please, deployed overseas people are doing a great job at defending our country and serving the nation. However, they are absent at home and do not serve the family unit. Nothing wrong with enlisting, but how can you be a good parent if you are not around at home? Give the good thing(s) deployment does for the family except for providing a paycheck and benefit? If I said that I was a business man travelling the world, would you say that I am a Good parent? Of course not! I will have to let my husband know that he is NOT a good parent since he is military, moves us around a lot, and has had to deploy!
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jul 8, 2024 18:34:33 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2014 6:32:58 GMT -5
I don't have any kids (so no dog in the fight) but I admire people who can be stay at home parents. I was at home for a few weeks between graduating school and finding a job and found myself doing pretty much nothing (Watched a lot of daytime TV though ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png) . The house was still a wreck (could have been spotless) and I didn't have motivation. What made it worse was I am naturally a night owl so I would be staying up all night then sleeping til 2 then watching tV. Coupled with the fact that I am an introvert (but one who gets depressed without some interaction(Does that make sense?)), staying at home allowed me to see no people and become depressed. I found working gives me enough people exposure to keep the depression away but not so much that it overwhelms the introvert in me (At work, we have a tasks to focus on and can just small talk a little). Absolutely this. I lack internal motivation without some sort of required schedule. So I will sit on my ass in my pajamas watching TV all day even if my list of things to do is miles long. And because I lack motivation & because I am shy, I won't get out and socialize, which is depressing & lonely. I need to work some to get my ass in gear & get stuff done. I would be happier if I could get by working 20 hours per week, but that's life.
Same here. Only difference for me is I indulge the night owl bit by working overnight. Job's a suckhole but at least I get paid and I'm up all night anyway. Otherwise I'd be in a drunken stupor on the couch 7 nights a week. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png) And I already got the platitudes about drinking because I'm bored and lonely and blah blah. I know that already and the plan was to cut down when I started working again and I have. A LOT. My vodka bottle misses me and I miss it but my schedule doesn't allow for as much togetherness as I'd like. Now I just need to up my ante and find an overnight desk job at the emergency vet hospital the next town over because kitchen work is killing my hands! Dishpan hands from industrial strength cleaner sucks!! At least my feet stopped hurting. I have no children, just a disabled DH, but for me, working is definitely something I want, not just need, to do because I was unemployed for 2 and 1/2 years and it is frickin" BORING!!!!!!!!!!!! I joined networking workshops in my area and all that good stuff, mostly for the UI reporting and they were useless to me but I went because they got me out of the house.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jul 8, 2024 18:34:33 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2014 8:05:37 GMT -5
Oh please, deployed overseas people are doing a great job at defending our country and serving the nation. However, they are absent at home and do not serve the family unit. Nothing wrong with enlisting, but how can you be a good parent if you are not around at home? Give the good thing(s) deployment does for the family except for providing a paycheck and benefit? If I said that I was a business man travelling the world, would you say that I am a Good parent? Of course not! I will have to let my husband know that he is NOT a good parent since he is military, moves us around a lot, and has had to deploy! and make sure you point him to the examples on here of GOOD parents....
|
|
Angel!
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:44:08 GMT -5
Posts: 10,722
|
Post by Angel! on Dec 13, 2014 8:13:55 GMT -5
So....you still send your kids to school for 6-7 hours/day? That horrible, liberal indoctrination camp that really just functions as a babysitter for your little ones? Seems to me a real full-time parent (per your definition) would home-school their kids. Sorry, but by your own definition I don't think you would qualify as a 'full-time parent'. But, whatever you want to believe that makes you feel like you are a better parent than others. And feel free to make up definitions while you are at it to insult others. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/smiley.png) Definitions do not praise or insult anyone. Definitions just are. I just made the mistake of assuming that making the distinction between someone who's primary role is work, and someone who's primary role is parenting is not terribly controversial. I forgot that there are those who think it's possible that they be both primarily a parent, and primarily an employee even though it sounds as silly to a rational reader as it does to me as I just typed it. The alternative would be to admit that one is not primarily a parent, or homemaker and I guess we're reading into it that I find that morally reprehensible and there's some judgment attached to the statement. As I said before- far from it. I'm simply pointing out that the words "Stay At Home" are inaccurate at best, and at worst deliberately condescending. A person- mother or father, may simply have placed a higher priority on raising the children and keeping the home than being employed, running a business, or otherwise generating income. The over-senstivity on the subject is a sign of low self-esteem, or guilt- justified or not, I won't be the one to say- and not anything I've said. We're human. We're not omnipresent. We simply cannot be a full time employee and full time parent. We can't be primarily an employee, and primarily a parent. And even though time isn't the ONLY way to measure our priorities, it's heavily weighted in determining someone's priorities. After all, time is the essence of life. What defines our priorities better than how we spend our time? And look, I understand a person going to work and saying, "I'm doing this for my family", but whatever our reasons- there are only so many hours in a day and how we spend them is how we spend them. Made-up stupid defitions can be insulting. The only difference between you and me is my kids are in school 2.5 hours more per day on average. Actually there is one more difference...you are splitting duties with someone. Unless you are both present 100% of the non-school hours, that is, which I doubt. So hour to hour comparison...I've got about 120 hours per week. You've got at best 133, if you never leave your wife alone with the kids, which again I doubt. At best you have 10% more hours than me. Sorry, but that doesn't really distinguish you as full- time and me part-time, imo. To think I value work over family and therefore I am not a full-time parent is just silly and insulting. My kids come first just like yours do for you.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jul 8, 2024 18:34:33 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2014 8:22:11 GMT -5
Definitions do not praise or insult anyone. Definitions just are. I just made the mistake of assuming that making the distinction between someone who's primary role is work, and someone who's primary role is parenting is not terribly controversial. I forgot that there are those who think it's possible that they be both primarily a parent, and primarily an employee even though it sounds as silly to a rational reader as it does to me as I just typed it. The alternative would be to admit that one is not primarily a parent, or homemaker and I guess we're reading into it that I find that morally reprehensible and there's some judgment attached to the statement. As I said before- far from it. I'm simply pointing out that the words "Stay At Home" are inaccurate at best, and at worst deliberately condescending. A person- mother or father, may simply have placed a higher priority on raising the children and keeping the home than being employed, running a business, or otherwise generating income. The over-senstivity on the subject is a sign of low self-esteem, or guilt- justified or not, I won't be the one to say- and not anything I've said. We're human. We're not omnipresent. We simply cannot be a full time employee and full time parent. We can't be primarily an employee, and primarily a parent. And even though time isn't the ONLY way to measure our priorities, it's heavily weighted in determining someone's priorities. After all, time is the essence of life. What defines our priorities better than how we spend our time? And look, I understand a person going to work and saying, "I'm doing this for my family", but whatever our reasons- there are only so many hours in a day and how we spend them is how we spend them. Made-up stupid defitions can be insulting. The only difference between you and me is my kids are in school 2.5 hours more per day on average. Actually there is one more difference...you are splitting duties with someone. Unless you are both present 100% of the non-school hours, that is, which I doubt. So hour to hour comparison...I've got about 120 hours per week. You've got at best 133, if you never leave your wife alone with the kids, which again I doubt. At best you have 10% more hours than me. Sorry, but that doesn't really distinguish you as full- time and me part-time, imo. To think I value work over family and therefore I am not a full-time parent is just silly and insulting. My kids come first just like yours do for you. and because they come first, that's why you work - to provide a roof over their heads and food in their stomachs and clothes on their backs. this part time parent shit is ridiculous. so since my DD's away at college I don't parent her at all?
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,448
|
Post by Firebird on Dec 13, 2014 9:22:11 GMT -5
Angel, the quote I was referring to wasn't from you (also, I wasn't offended by it- just rubbed me the wrong way). And I don't necessarily think there's anything wrong with having more guy friends than girls. I just don't like it when people generalize about how women are/communicate with each other, basically implying they all suck in mostly the same ways. I've never seen you do that.
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Dec 13, 2014 9:29:56 GMT -5
Why do we all respond to Paul? He obviously gets his kicks by posting inflammatory remarks in order to file everyone up. And if I'm wrong and he really believes the shit he says, even a better reason to ignore him
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Dec 13, 2014 9:36:12 GMT -5
Damn autocorrect...rile everyone up...not file them!lol
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,448
|
Post by Firebird on Dec 13, 2014 9:50:49 GMT -5
I stopped taking Paul seriously a long time ago, but sometimes it's fun to feed the tool.
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,436
|
Post by swamp on Dec 13, 2014 10:00:30 GMT -5
I stopped taking Paul seriously a long time ago, but sometimes it's fun to feed the tool. Feed the tool. Pure awesomeness
|
|
Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,448
|
Post by Firebird on Dec 13, 2014 10:34:42 GMT -5
Oh wow. I swear I meant troll. But this is so much better! Sometimes autocorrect is your friend.
|
|
imanangel
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jun 8, 2014 12:18:00 GMT -5
Posts: 1,042
|
Post by imanangel on Dec 13, 2014 11:39:11 GMT -5
Angel, the quote I was referring to wasn't from you (also, I wasn't offended by it- just rubbed me the wrong way). And I don't necessarily think there's anything wrong with having more guy friends than girls. I just don't like it when people generalize about how women are/communicate with each other, basically implying they all suck in mostly the same ways. I've never seen you do that. I understand.
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Dec 13, 2014 11:55:56 GMT -5
Oh wow. I swear I meant troll. But this is so much better! Sometimes autocorrect is your friend. Lmfao!!!!
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,700
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Dec 13, 2014 14:52:21 GMT -5
... It it wrong that I want my son to be able to grow up and make enough money to support the household with a SAHM, yet I want my daughter to marry a good guy who can support the household? "I want my child to grow up capable of making enough money to support a household including a non-income producing spouse. I want that child to find a spouse who is also capable of making enough money to support a household including a non-income producing spouse." Sound good?
|
|
trimommy
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2, 2011 17:08:18 GMT -5
Posts: 107
|
Post by trimommy on Dec 13, 2014 18:15:25 GMT -5
"I want my child to grow up capable of making enough money to support a household including a non-income producing spouse. I want that child to find a spouse who is also capable of making enough money to support a household including a non-income producing spouse." Sound good? I actually do not agree with this. I hope my daughter will recognize that she has value to the world beyond her skills as a wife/mother. I hope my son will recognize the value of a strong partner and the need for both parties to contribute equally to home and work. I am trying to raise kids who would work, outside of the home in whatever capacity, even if they hit a multimillion dollar lottery jackpot.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,700
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Dec 13, 2014 18:27:03 GMT -5
"I want my child to grow up capable of making enough money to support a household including a non-income producing spouse. I want that child to find a spouse who is also capable of making enough money to support a household including a non-income producing spouse." Sound good? I actually do not agree with this. I hope my daughter will recognize that she has value to the world beyond her skills as a wife/mother. I hope my son will recognize the value of a strong partner and the need for both parties to contribute equally to home and work. I am trying to raise kids who would work, outside of the home in whatever capacity, even if they hit a multimillion dollar lottery jackpot. I guess I am not sure what you disagree with. It says that a child of either gender should, as an adult, have the skills necessary to support a household independent of another adult bringing money into the household. This would allow for them to be self supporting if a spouse 1) dies, 2) becomes disabled, 3) simply leaves, 4) there is a decision made to have a spouse not work a job outside the home. What I question is "I hope that my daughter ..." - "I hope that my son ...". Why isn't it "I hope that my child ..."?
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,510
|
Post by thyme4change on Dec 13, 2014 18:29:26 GMT -5
I hope my kids grow up happy. I don't have a categorical theory on how I want them to live.
|
|
trimommy
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2, 2011 17:08:18 GMT -5
Posts: 107
|
Post by trimommy on Dec 13, 2014 18:53:35 GMT -5
I guess I am not sure what you disagree with. It says that a child of either gender should, as an adult, have the skills necessary to support a household independent of another adult bringing money into the household. This would allow for them to be self supporting if a spouse 1) dies, 2) becomes disabled, 3) simply leaves, 4) there is a decision made to have a spouse not work a job outside the home. What I question is "I hope that my daughter ..." - "I hope that my son ...". Why isn't it "I hope that my child ..."? It is. Your quote said that a child could support a non-working spouse. Whether a man or woman, I hope that my child would not choose to support a non-working spouse, no matter their level of income. That is the same for my son and my daughter.
|
|
trimommy
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2, 2011 17:08:18 GMT -5
Posts: 107
|
Post by trimommy on Dec 13, 2014 18:58:20 GMT -5
And I equally hope that neither of my children would ever choose to be a non-working spouse (or non-income producing, if you prefer). That is what I was trying to get at with my equivocation.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,700
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Dec 13, 2014 19:03:06 GMT -5
What's weird about the debate is that most parents will at one time or the other have taken on all these roles: working, not working, working more than full time, working part time. Unless you are a member of a fundamentalist religion it's very unlikely that you will be simply one thing the entire time your child is a minor. Reality may be that but it seems to me the debate is what do you teach your children the expectation is in regards to being capable of supporting themselves and others. Should there be a different expectation taught based on a child's gender? Seems like it is not uncommon for a male to be raised that they should be able to support a family including a spouse if that is the decision they make. Is the same expectation placed on a female during her upbringing?
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,700
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Dec 13, 2014 19:05:52 GMT -5
And I equally hope that neither of my children would ever choose to be a non-working spouse (or non-income producing, if you prefer). That is what I was trying to get at with my equivocation. Thank you for that clarification.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jul 8, 2024 18:34:33 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2014 19:10:43 GMT -5
Trimommy, shouldn't your adult children make those decisions for themselves? ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/idunno.gif)
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jul 8, 2024 18:34:33 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2014 19:12:46 GMT -5
And for that matter it's not always a choice... Having the capacity helps protect from eventualities.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,700
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Dec 13, 2014 19:14:36 GMT -5
Trimommy, shouldn't your adult children make those decisions for themselves? ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/idunno.gif) My two cents on this: The discussion is on what you teach your children as far as expectations. It seems like what is being suggested is that she will teach them that being a stay at home parent is never an acceptable option. Of course, adults will make their own decisions on such things.
|
|
giramomma
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 11:25:27 GMT -5
Posts: 21,664
|
Post by giramomma on Dec 13, 2014 19:16:07 GMT -5
I actually do not agree with this. I hope my daughter will recognize that she has value to the world beyond her skills as a wife/mother. I hope my son will recognize the value of a strong partner a nd the need for both parties to contribute equally to home and work. I am trying to raise kids who would work, outside of the home in whatever capacity, even if they hit a multimillion dollar lottery jackpot. How do you define equal? And, what do you do when the reality is that life is not always 50/50 or even 100/100? One can do a lot of damage in relationships if the expectation is everything MUST be handled 50/50. (I don't know about you, but keeping score isn't cool. And I won't be teaching my kids that.) I also hope for your sake, and the sake of your kids, that no one in your family experiences severe illness. I know, personally, if I've got cancer and a limited time left on this earth, and my kids wanted to cut back in their work schedule to be with me, I would welcome them with open arms. I wouldn't tell them "No, no, you HAVE to work, and keep working full time. That's the only acceptable option."
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jul 8, 2024 18:34:33 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2014 19:22:23 GMT -5
Trimommy, shouldn't your adult children make those decisions for themselves? ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/idunno.gif) My two cents on this: The discussion is on what you teach your children as far as expectations. It seems like what is being suggested is that she will teach them that being a stay at home parent is never an acceptable option. Of course, adults will make their own decisions on such things. Seems she is teaching that being or having one parent not working for pay is inherently inferior. It seems like she's saying if they would choose, or for some reason need, to have a one income household, that she would not value or respect them as highly. Everyone can raise their kids as they see fit, obviously. It's not a position I'd take.
|
|
trimommy
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2, 2011 17:08:18 GMT -5
Posts: 107
|
Post by trimommy on Dec 13, 2014 19:25:23 GMT -5
Everything about this discussion always boils down to each family deciding what works best for them. And of course things will never be a penny-for-penny 50:50 split. I do not advocate keeping score at all (unless it works for you, in which case I don't really care).
What I advocate, for my own children, is that they recognize they have intrinsic value to the world beyond what the support they can provide to a spouse or their children. They have more to give and do, whether that earns $10/hour or $100K/year. It is about their contribution, not their remuneration.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,700
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Dec 13, 2014 19:26:40 GMT -5
My two cents on this: The discussion is on what you teach your children as far as expectations. It seems like what is being suggested is that she will teach them that being a stay at home parent is never an acceptable option. Of course, adults will make their own decisions on such things. Seems she is teaching that being or having one parent not working for pay is inherently inferior. It seems like she's saying if they would choose, or for some reason need, to have a one income household, that she would not value or respect them as highly. Everyone can raise their kids as they see fit, obviously. It's not a position I'd take. It is that "need" that would concern me. Can you imagine being raised that you only have value if you are working outside of the home and you become disabled. Set-up for suicide?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jul 8, 2024 18:34:33 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2014 19:28:03 GMT -5
Everything about this discussion always boils down to each family deciding what works best for them. And of course things will never be a penny-for-penny 50:50 split. I do not advocate keeping score at all (unless it works for you, in which case I don't really care). What I advocate, for my own children, is that they recognize they have intrinsic value to the world beyond what the support they can provide to a spouse or their children. They have more to give and do, whether that earns $10/hour or $100K/year. It is about their contribution, not their remuneration. So long as their contribution comes with a paycheck.... which is is actually the opposite of intrinsic...
|
|