Ava
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Post by Ava on Nov 11, 2014 14:41:55 GMT -5
No, I don't see the point. When someone in their 40s, 50s or over decide to marry I assume they are doing it for religious reasons. Otherwise, it doesn't really make sense. People should mind their own business instead of making comments of "living in sin",etc.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 14:47:26 GMT -5
No, I don't see the point. When someone in their 40s, 50s or over decide to marry I assume they are doing it for religious reasons. Otherwise, it doesn't really make sense. People should mind their own business instead of making comments of "living in sin",etc. That wasn't my reasoning. I'm pretty sure I heard the holy water sizzle when it hit me.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Nov 11, 2014 14:54:59 GMT -5
Why do people in their 40s or 50s that are already "established" get married? By established, I mean own a home and have other investments. They also have their own employer health and retirement plans. Please do not tell me that enough paperwork will get me the same treatment as being married. My aunts spend a grand a year on their legal paperwork which they haul around in a three-ring binder and they'll be the first to tell you that it's a pale, frail, partial simulation of being legally married. LOL. I don't know what state your aunts are in. Mine is a few sheets of paper for a POA and the will is a bit longer (mostly because of complications and desires regarding 1 minor child, 2 adult children). We also have a 1 sheet of paper of certified domestic partnership in our city. I think we paid $1500 for a one time document and that was 3+ years ago. Our domestic partnership had like a 5$ filing fee or something (one time). I don't see anything pale, frail, or partial.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Nov 11, 2014 15:03:44 GMT -5
Ok, so marriage is beneficial for some, detrimental for others, and a wash for some. It seems to depend on your circumstances: age and age differences, income differences, children, state of residence, etc. Can we come up with some broad rules of thumb on when it makes sense or does not?
Looks to me that marriage is beneficial if there is a SAHS, so they can collect on the other spouse's SS record. OTOH, two higher earning spouses wouldn't get a SS benefit, and might get better tax treatment as two singles (like whenever a limit for MFJ is nowhere near double the Single limit).
What else? I'm curious because I haven't really explored the comparison before, I just make the best of what my situation is now.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Nov 11, 2014 15:46:36 GMT -5
I don't think I would feel the need to get married again that late in the game, assuming no minor children. But the majority of people in their 70s/80s, I would imagine, probably don't feel right about a live-in relationship with no legal tie. Not sure though. It would depend on the person and, frankly, whether the relationship warranted marriage. I really hope DH is my only husband. Thank the heavens above that I am in the minority in this hunt
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Nov 11, 2014 15:56:09 GMT -5
Please do not tell me that enough paperwork will get me the same treatment as being married. My aunts spend a grand a year on their legal paperwork which they haul around in a three-ring binder and they'll be the first to tell you that it's a pale, frail, partial simulation of being legally married. LOL. I don't know what state your aunts are in. Mine is a few sheets of paper for a POA and the will is a bit longer (mostly because of complications and desires regarding 1 minor child, 2 adult children). We also have a 1 sheet of paper of certified domestic partnership in our city. I think we paid $1500 for a one time document and that was 3+ years ago. Our domestic partnership had like a 5$ filing fee or something (one time). I don't see anything pale, frail, or partial. OMG you're not married?!?!!? SINNER!!!!!!!!
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Nov 11, 2014 16:41:44 GMT -5
LOL. I don't know what state your aunts are in. Mine is a few sheets of paper for a POA and the will is a bit longer (mostly because of complications and desires regarding 1 minor child, 2 adult children). We also have a 1 sheet of paper of certified domestic partnership in our city. I think we paid $1500 for a one time document and that was 3+ years ago. Our domestic partnership had like a 5$ filing fee or something (one time). I don't see anything pale, frail, or partial. OMG you're not married?!?!!? SINNER!!!!!!!! LOL. And we SPAWNED. We're double sinners!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 16:43:16 GMT -5
OMG you're not married?!?!!? SINNER!!!!!!!! LOL. And we SPAWNED. We're double sinners!
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Nov 11, 2014 16:47:26 GMT -5
OMG you're not married?!?!!? SINNER!!!!!!!! LOL. And we SPAWNED. We're double sinners! Well I hope you're happy that you've condemned your innocent child to the fires of hell.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 11, 2014 17:19:38 GMT -5
Bet it works out great for tax and other benefits.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Nov 11, 2014 17:40:03 GMT -5
It works for us. I think you have to be smart and careful about it's implementation. I hope I've done everything I can think of. But yes, you have to be willing to go through the leg work or you will not be their beneficiary or their power of attorney or etc etc etc. Neither of us are 'opposed' to marriage these days (there was some issue with the ex some time ago) but we are both lazy. Not quite 10 years of cohabiting sinfully and one 3 year old later... I think we're doing ok.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 17:40:03 GMT -5
My step-grandmother married for money. Really. And I wouldn't be surprised if that's behind some of the marriages among seniors.
Back in the Bad Old Days when you could do this without spousal consent, her first husband signed up to collect a pension without a survivor benefit. So, they got a bigger amount as long as he was alive, then it went to zero when he died. Oops. I guess his SS wasn't enough to support her and her adult kids told her that if she wanted to live decently she'd have to find someone to marry.
I do think she and Grandpa had a good marriage, but every time one of his CDs matured it got put into her name. At their 5th wedding anniversary he "upgraded" her ring and the stone was bigger than the 1-carat stone I had at the time. The really sore spot with my mother (his daughter) was that he was so stingy with my grandma that she had to use a small legacy from her parents to put new linoleum in the kitchen because Grandpa said it wasn't necessary. And Grandma loved jewelry but never had much beyond the tiny engagement ring Grandpa had bought her when they got engaged. Mom didn't want Grandpa's money- she had 4 siblings so it wouldn't have been much anyway- she just resented what Wife #2 got that her mother didn't.
They did happen to be Roman Catholic, so a church ceremony was a must- but what led her to go looking for a husband was $$$.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Nov 11, 2014 17:41:04 GMT -5
Bet it works out great for tax and other benefits. I dunno. We pay an assload of taxes so I don't really think it matters one way or the other. Maybe it does. Only one of us gets to claim the kid, only one of us gets to claim the house, etc. It's not like we double dip.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 18:03:19 GMT -5
"Why get married?". Beats the hell out of me!!!!!!!!!!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 11, 2014 18:51:46 GMT -5
But you also qualify for EITC, don't you? That's a huge chunk of change for a lot of single working moms. You don't get it if you're married.
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Nov 11, 2014 19:22:33 GMT -5
But you also qualify for EITC, don't you? That's a huge chunk of change for a lot of single working moms. You don't get it if you're married. She's a high wage earner.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Nov 11, 2014 19:56:06 GMT -5
But you also qualify for EITC, don't you? That's a huge chunk of change for a lot of single working moms. You don't get it if you're married. You can get EITC if you are married. Looking at the tables, with one kid you are eligible up to $37k if single/HOH, but up to $43k if MFJ. Three kids, eligible up to ~$51k AGI. You can even get EITC with no kids, but you'd need a really small income, under ~$19k MFJ, $14k single.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 11, 2014 20:16:56 GMT -5
But you also qualify for EITC, don't you? That's a huge chunk of change for a lot of single working moms. You don't get it if you're married. EITC is a function of income, not whether or not you are married. Married people can claim EITC. However, Honey has already said that she pays a huge amount of tax, so this point is moot.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 12, 2014 9:05:34 GMT -5
Ah, I only know poor single working moms! They looked forward to it because it always really helped them. One year one of them used it to buy a new washer and dryer and paid off her car.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 12, 2014 10:16:57 GMT -5
All I know is that except for being able to fend off legally bio brat, it costs me until he dies and I can collect his social security. I doubt that the taxes we both will have to pay on our combined income will ever offset that "perk."
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Nov 12, 2014 11:36:12 GMT -5
Only one of us gets to claim the kid, only one of us gets to claim the house, etc. It's not like we double dip.
Um, HoneyBBQ, I don't understand this? You are already a filthy sinner and destined for hell, why not go the whole hog?!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 11:46:43 GMT -5
Only one of us gets to claim the kid, only one of us gets to claim the house, etc. It's not like we double dip.
Um, HoneyBBQ, I don't understand this? You are already a filthy sinner and destined for hell, why not go the whole hog?! The IRS is better at catching you right away than God is.
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cktc
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Post by cktc on Nov 12, 2014 12:30:26 GMT -5
I struggle with this question myself. After I got married, I didn't magically feel different. My commitment to my husband didn't just automatically appear during the ceremony, it was already there way beforehand. There is an element of societal and religious blessing for shacking up. . As I get older, I see some of the other, legal benefits. But ultimately, it comes down to commitment, and looking at how many divorces there are, it seems that level of commitment is separate from marriage status. I don’t feel fully committed without marriage. Exclusivity isn't a concern, but I can’t fully embrace the couple mindset, the idea that the partnership is bigger than the individual, without that legal bind. Before marriage it’s an at will relationship. Every decision that benefits one individual more than the other feels risky, as if it could blow up in your face at any moment. I can follow someone, wait for someone, support them, but I can’t shake the trepidation that it will all be for naught. I have an escape hatch, a back-up plan, even if it is only in my mind. Marriage doesn't guarantee anything, but it is a goodwill show for future considerations. It allows me to be bolder in my life decisions and feel more at ease in the relationship. I can fully commit, because what’s good for the couple can supersede what’s good for the individual.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Nov 12, 2014 12:55:11 GMT -5
But you also qualify for EITC, don't you? That's a huge chunk of change for a lot of single working moms. You don't get it if you're married. What? No. I make 6 figures. I don't get boo.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Nov 12, 2014 12:56:04 GMT -5
Only one of us gets to claim the kid, only one of us gets to claim the house, etc. It's not like we double dip.
Um, HoneyBBQ, I don't understand this? You are already a filthy sinner and destined for hell, why not go the whole hog?! The IRS is better at catching you right away than God is. Exactly! I'd cheat if I couldn't get caught.
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Nov 12, 2014 12:57:45 GMT -5
But you also qualify for EITC, don't you? That's a huge chunk of change for a lot of single working moms. You don't get it if you're married. What? No. I make 6 figures. I don't get boo. But you aren't married. Obviously you're gaming the system. Lol :-P
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Nov 12, 2014 13:04:43 GMT -5
You should be following in the example of Cookies Galore, who is now legitimate and therefore no longer a sinner bound for hell
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 12, 2014 13:10:34 GMT -5
Honestly, if DF and I were just starting out again, I don't think I would. We'd tell people we did but we really wouldn't be. With what I made being so different than what he made, being married would have hurt more than helped us. It still will but at this point, I'm willing to go along with it. No one cares if your children are legitimate or not and they'd have his last name so who would even know? If we split up, he'd still be on the hook for child support. There's little to be gained and a lot to lose for a lot of people.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Nov 12, 2014 13:18:35 GMT -5
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Nov 12, 2014 13:53:09 GMT -5
I struggle with this question myself. After I got married, I didn't magically feel different. My commitment to my husband didn't just automatically appear during the ceremony, it was already there way beforehand. There is an element of societal and religious blessing for shacking up. . As I get older, I see some of the other, legal benefits. But ultimately, it comes down to commitment, and looking at how many divorces there are, it seems that level of commitment is separate from marriage status. I don’t feel fully committed without marriage. Exclusivity isn't a concern, but I can’t fully embrace the couple mindset, the idea that the partnership is bigger than the individual, without that legal bind. Before marriage it’s an at will relationship. Every decision that benefits one individual more than the other feels risky, as if it could blow up in your face at any moment. I can follow someone, wait for someone, support them, but I can’t shake the trepidation that it will all be for naught. I have an escape hatch, a back-up plan, even if it is only in my mind. Marriage doesn't guarantee anything, but it is a goodwill show for future considerations. It allows me to be bolder in my life decisions and feel more at ease in the relationship. I can fully commit, because what’s good for the couple can supersede what’s good for the individual. And I felt like I needed to be committed while I was married
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