mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 2, 2014 9:05:00 GMT -5
I don't think anyone has said it isn't a problem, @sroo4. Seems to me people are saying it's not a time to panic. Ebola is a problem. There's no doubt about that. As I see it, we have the facilities here to deal with the problem very effectively. Will mistakes like the one talked about here be made? Yes, probably. I hope they're few and far between as they shouldn't be made. I don't think anyone will disagree with that. I think most of us are saying we don't expect Ebola to become the kind of problem here it is in West Africa. I know I don't believe it will because I know what we have to fight with and what we can do.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 2, 2014 9:09:13 GMT -5
If the man himself was from Liberia - where there are huge amounts of confusion, misunderstanding, lack of education, denial, fear, and stigma to the virus - this may help explain both his unwise decision to travel and to be less than assertive about his situation with doctors. His American family says they were actively asking for help from the CDC, so they may have a whole different perception of the disease than their Liberian relative. Oh for FFS, really?!? On second thought, I'm going back to putting my fingers in my ears and pretending along with everything else that this is not a problem. Good grief, where on earth did I say anything about anything 'not being a problem'? I was explaining why the man may have made a bad choice to travel, based on his history, because that was the conversation. None of that had anything to do with your comment at all. I'm done on this thread, even though it was of interest to me.
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Post by The Captain on Oct 2, 2014 10:47:37 GMT -5
I don't think anyone has said it isn't a problem, @sroo4. Seems to me people are saying it's not a time to panic. Ebola is a problem. There's no doubt about that. As I see it, we have the facilities here to deal with the problem very effectively. Will mistakes like the one talked about here be made? Yes, probably. I hope they're few and far between as they shouldn't be made. I don't think anyone will disagree with that. I think most of us are saying we don't expect Ebola to become the kind of problem here it is in West Africa. I know I don't believe it will because I know what we have to fight with and what we can do. It takes a tremendous amout of personnel and resources to treat ONE ebola patient. Think back to one of the late 20's early 30's polio epidemics in the US and there weren't enough iron lungs to breath for the poor kids who were stricken. Thousands died. Our population density was also much less back then. So tell me, exactly how many Level 4 isolation wards does each hospital have? From what I hear, hopefully there are at least 80 in that one city in TX. When they brought back the missionaries from Africa they went to only 1 of 4 high level isolation wards in the entire country. Still feel we have the facilities in place to deal with a widespread epidemic? I don't. www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/special-hospital-unit-readies-ebola-patient-n169951“Emory University Hospital has a specially built isolation unit set up in collaboration with the CDC to treat patients who are exposed to certain serious infectious diseases,” the hospital said. “It is physically separate from other patient areas and has unique equipment and infrastructure that provide an extraordinarily high level of clinical isolation. It is one of only four such facilities in the country."Experts say isolating patients with Ebola is important. The disease is not terribly contagious, but it can spread via bodily fluids and healthcare workers are at special risk. They must wear layers of protective equipment including boots, gloves, a full body suit and face and eye protection.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 2, 2014 10:53:21 GMT -5
I don't think anyone has said it isn't a problem, @sroo4. Seems to me people are saying it's not a time to panic. Ebola is a problem. There's no doubt about that. As I see it, we have the facilities here to deal with the problem very effectively. Will mistakes like the one talked about here be made? Yes, probably. I hope they're few and far between as they shouldn't be made. I don't think anyone will disagree with that. I think most of us are saying we don't expect Ebola to become the kind of problem here it is in West Africa. I know I don't believe it will because I know what we have to fight with and what we can do. It takes a tremendous amout of personnel and resources to treat ONE ebola patient. Think back to one of the late 20's early 30's polio epidemics in the US and there weren't enough iron lungs to breath for the poor kids who were stricken. Thousands died. Our population density was also much less back then. So tell me, exactly how many Level 4 isolation wards does each hospital have? From what I hear, hopefully there are at least 80 in that one city in TX. When they brought back the missionaries from Africa they went to only 1 of 4 high level isolation wards in the entire country. Still feel we have the facilities in place to deal with a widespread epidemic? I don't. www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/special-hospital-unit-readies-ebola-patient-n169951“Emory University Hospital has a specially built isolation unit set up in collaboration with the CDC to treat patients who are exposed to certain serious infectious diseases,” the hospital said. “It is physically separate from other patient areas and has unique equipment and infrastructure that provide an extraordinarily high level of clinical isolation. It is one of only four such facilities in the country."Experts say isolating patients with Ebola is important. The disease is not terribly contagious, but it can spread via bodily fluids and healthcare workers are at special risk. They must wear layers of protective equipment including boots, gloves, a full body suit and face and eye protection. My comment was based on my belief there will not be a wide-spread epidemic of Ebola in this country, Captain. I believe we'll catch most cases early enough to prevent that.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 2, 2014 10:56:30 GMT -5
It amazes me that you are absolutely ok with this guy coming to the US even though he had to know there was a good chance he was exposed to Ebola. So here's my question. The first time he went to the hospital, he did tell them he had traveled from West Africa. Why did he not tell them, "Yes, I have traveled from West Africa, and Oh, BTW, I was handling an Ebola patient 4 days ago"? That seems like it would be part of a "What's not feeling well" discussion you would have with a doctor treating you. the hospital made a mistake. the question was asked, but the answer was not transmitted. so, yeah, THAT HOSPITAL has some stuff to work on.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 2, 2014 10:58:06 GMT -5
I don't think anyone has said it isn't a problem, @sroo4. Seems to me people are saying it's not a time to panic. Ebola is a problem. There's no doubt about that. As I see it, we have the facilities here to deal with the problem very effectively. Will mistakes like the one talked about here be made? Yes, probably. I hope they're few and far between as they shouldn't be made. I don't think anyone will disagree with that. I think most of us are saying we don't expect Ebola to become the kind of problem here it is in West Africa. I know I don't believe it will because I know what we have to fight with and what we can do. It takes a tremendous amout of personnel and resources to treat ONE ebola patient. Think back to one of the late 20's early 30's polio epidemics in the US and there weren't enough iron lungs to breath for the poor kids who were stricken. Thousands died. Our population density was also much less back then. So tell me, exactly how many Level 4 isolation wards does each hospital have? From what I hear, hopefully there are at least 80 in that one city in TX. When they brought back the missionaries from Africa they went to only 1 of 4 high level isolation wards in the entire country. Still feel we have the facilities in place to deal with a widespread epidemic? I don't. www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/special-hospital-unit-readies-ebola-patient-n169951“Emory University Hospital has a specially built isolation unit set up in collaboration with the CDC to treat patients who are exposed to certain serious infectious diseases,” the hospital said. “It is physically separate from other patient areas and has unique equipment and infrastructure that provide an extraordinarily high level of clinical isolation. It is one of only four such facilities in the country."Experts say isolating patients with Ebola is important. The disease is not terribly contagious, but it can spread via bodily fluids and healthcare workers are at special risk. They must wear layers of protective equipment including boots, gloves, a full body suit and face and eye protection. The CDC has posted guidelines for hospitals treating known or suspected cases, which all hospitals should be able to fulfill: www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/hcp/infection-prevention-and-control-recommendations.html
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Oct 2, 2014 11:06:42 GMT -5
All right then. But your video does not play for me. Try that..it is pretty funny.
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 2, 2014 11:10:50 GMT -5
I don't think anyone has said it isn't a problem, @sroo4. Seems to me people are saying it's not a time to panic. Ebola is a problem. There's no doubt about that. As I see it, we have the facilities here to deal with the problem very effectively. Will mistakes like the one talked about here be made? Yes, probably. I hope they're few and far between as they shouldn't be made. I don't think anyone will disagree with that. I think most of us are saying we don't expect Ebola to become the kind of problem here it is in West Africa. I know I don't believe it will because I know what we have to fight with and what we can do. It takes a tremendous amout of personnel and resources to treat ONE ebola patient. Think back to one of the late 20's early 30's polio epidemics in the US and there weren't enough iron lungs to breath for the poor kids who were stricken. Thousands died. Our population density was also much less back then. So tell me, exactly how many Level 4 isolation wards does each hospital have? From what I hear, hopefully there are at least 80 in that one city in TX. When they brought back the missionaries from Africa they went to only 1 of 4 high level isolation wards in the entire country. Still feel we have the facilities in place to deal with a widespread epidemic? I don't. www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/special-hospital-unit-readies-ebola-patient-n169951“Emory University Hospital has a specially built isolation unit set up in collaboration with the CDC to treat patients who are exposed to certain serious infectious diseases,” the hospital said. “It is physically separate from other patient areas and has unique equipment and infrastructure that provide an extraordinarily high level of clinical isolation. It is one of only four such facilities in the country."Experts say isolating patients with Ebola is important. The disease is not terribly contagious, but it can spread via bodily fluids and healthcare workers are at special risk. They must wear layers of protective equipment including boots, gloves, a full body suit and face and eye protection. you might want to consider the infectiousness of this disease before you condemn our facilities as inadequate. Ebola has existed since 1976. the infected populations number about 200M. it has killed less than 5,000 people in 40 years. currently, there are 8,000 infections- but there is also a potential vaccine. in short, this is a fairly slow moving disease, especially in developed countries. for example, when the virus hit Johnannesburg, SA in 1996, less than 10 people were infected in a dense population of 3/4M. nobody is saying that there is nothing to worry about here. but what we are saying is that this disease is relatively easy to contain, and has hit various places for 40 years without spreading like wildfire. and yes, Liberia has a problem. that sucks for them. glad i don't live there.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Oct 2, 2014 11:11:10 GMT -5
Yes. This was posted over 2 months ago and we all know how well it was followed... Consider this - if hospital personnel were so good at avoiding bacterial/viral transmittal between patients, then why are your chances of getting a secondary infection so much greater when you are in the hospital then when you are at home?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 2, 2014 11:14:00 GMT -5
I don't think anyone has said it isn't a problem, @sroo4. Seems to me people are saying it's not a time to panic. Ebola is a problem. There's no doubt about that. As I see it, we have the facilities here to deal with the problem very effectively. Will mistakes like the one talked about here be made? Yes, probably. I hope they're few and far between as they shouldn't be made. I don't think anyone will disagree with that. I think most of us are saying we don't expect Ebola to become the kind of problem here it is in West Africa. I know I don't believe it will because I know what we have to fight with and what we can do. the first case is ALWAYS going to be where the most mistakes happen. now that we have it, our guard will be up. as odd as it might seem to say it, the anxiety and panic it has provoked is very encouraging.
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 2, 2014 11:15:06 GMT -5
Yes. This was posted over 2 months ago and we all know how well it was followed... symptomatically, Ebola presents not much different than the flu. you have to really be LOOKING FOR IT to see it. i would posit that we are NOW LOOKING FOR IT.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 2, 2014 11:15:54 GMT -5
Consider this - if hospital personnel were so good at avoiding bacterial/viral transmittal between patients, then why are your chances of getting a secondary infection so much greater when you are in the hospital then when you are at home? because there are more pathogens in a hospital than in your home? just guessing.
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 2, 2014 11:20:21 GMT -5
symptomatically, Ebola presents not much different than the flu. you have to really be LOOKING FOR IT to see it. i would posit that we are NOW LOOKING FOR IT. We were supposed to be looking for it THEN! sure. but as i have already said, it is different to look for something knowing that it might be there than thinking it probably isn't.
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Post by Tennesseer on Oct 2, 2014 11:21:16 GMT -5
All right then. But your video does not play for me. Try that..it is pretty funny. Thanks FC. I watched the video outside of Proboards on my tablet and it was funny. I tried the above video with the traditional Youtube.com URL address and that does not work either. I use a tablet most of the time. And up until yesterday (maybe?), I was able to watch Youtube videos on my tablet. Even the first video you posted which I said would not work for me would have worked up until yesterday or so. I have contacted Probards Tech Support and posed the problem to them. I cannot view Youtube videos now in either the desktop or mobile version on Proboards. I figured out the youtu.be thing. The 'be' stands for a Belgium URL address.
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Post by The Captain on Oct 2, 2014 11:22:22 GMT -5
But djAdvocate, that's my point exactly. The fact that it presents pretty much the same as the flu is, IMHO - what scares me the most. Even when we had a really bad flu outbreak a few years back you still didn't have people washing their hands after sneezing into them, or ( ) even attempting to cover their mouth when sneezing in a highly crowded public space. I'll admit, I'm a bit of a germaphobe. I've worked in both the food service industry and in hospitals and nursing homes so I've got some training in how you are supposed to do things. That and the fact that I have asthma makes me more at risk of complications from the flu and other viruses so I'm highly sensitive to the wet hacking and uncovered sneezing of the moron on the (crowded) train behind me. The general public (and even a decent % of healthcare workers) never thinks it can happen to them, so they don't take proper precautions.
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 2, 2014 11:25:57 GMT -5
But djAdvocate, that's my point exactly. The fact that it presents pretty much the same as the flu is, IMHO - what scares me the most. Even when we had a really bad flu outbreak a few years back you still didn't have people washing their hands after sneezing into them, or ( ) even attempting to cover their mouth when sneezing in a highly crowded public space. I'll admit, I'm a bit of a germaphobe. I've worked in both the food service industry and in hospitals and nursing homes so I've got some training in how you are supposed to do things. That and the fact that I have asthma makes me more at risk of complications from the flu and other viruses so I'm highly sensitive to the wet hacking and uncovered sneezing of the moron on the (crowded) train behind me. The general public (and even a decent % of healthcare workers) never thinks it can happen to them, so they don't take proper precautions. True, but people don't really fear the flu. They don't like it, but they don't fear for their lives with the flu. I know I don't, even though I know factually that people die of the flu annually. But people fear Ebola, leading to greater motivation and self-defensive actions.
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 2, 2014 11:32:58 GMT -5
Yes. This was posted over 2 months ago and we all know how well it was followed... You're confusing issues. You are referring to the hospital failing to catch the victim's early symptoms, I presume. The CDC guidelines I posted were in response to your assertion that an Ebola patient must be treated in a Level 4 Bio facility, of which the US currently has only a handful. Nigeria successfully contained and resolved a similar outbreak using even more basic facilities. There's an interesting article in the NYT about how they did that: www.nytimes.com/2014/10/01/health/ebola-outbreak-in-nigeria-appears-to-be-over.html#
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 2, 2014 11:44:35 GMT -5
These cases, as they are (and, probably, will be) presenting can be handled in most hospitals of any size. Even our little 6-bed unit had an isolation area that would have been usable for this situation. Larger hospitals will have more such areas. Those who work these areas are well-versed in isolation procedures. It's a part of their job, and isolation is isolation. They know the protocols for the various types of isolation. Hospital Emergency Room personnel will have to be refreshed and drilled to be sure they understand what they are to do should a suspicious case present.
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Post by busymom on Oct 2, 2014 11:44:51 GMT -5
Ok, the news here at lunchtime is reporting a possible case in Hawaii. Patient is being monitored.
Heard something interesting on talk radio this morning. There is hardly any of that miracle drug that saved the doctor that was brought to Atlanta for treatment. So, what exactly is the "standard" treatment for those who come down with Ebola?
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 2, 2014 11:49:29 GMT -5
Ok, the news here at lunchtime is reporting a possible case in Hawaii. Patient is being monitored.
Heard something interesting on talk radio this morning. There is hardly any of that miracle drug that saved the doctor that was brought to Atlanta for treatment. So, what exactly is the "standard" treatment for those who come down with Ebola? The best treatment available at the moment is "supportive care". And yes, the company that made the experimental treatment said a while ago that there is none left. Even with that, they do not have any real idea if the drug 'saved' the patients it's been given to. Since half the victims given good supportive care survive, it's 50/50 on whether that did anything. All the really know is that it did not kill him. The patient in Hawaii had not, as of last I heard, even been tested for Ebola. The person was being isolated out of an abundance of caution, and the possibility was called a 'distant' possibility. There have been dozens of patients around the country over the past few months that have been considered for testing and a handful that have been sent to the CDC for testing, with it turning out to be nothing. All in all, considering the breakdown in Texas Health, an overabundance of caution is a good thing! news.yahoo.com/ebola-hawaii-patient-much-too-early-know-officials-161549421.html;_ylt=A0LEVyg_gi1UnFQAcdJXNyoA
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 2, 2014 11:49:48 GMT -5
In the initial stages, it's important to maintain fluid and electrolyte balance, busymom. If that's done, antibiotics are given should secondary infections develop, and coagulation features monitored and replaced, if needed, the majority of people in this country will recover. As with any serious illness, the very young and the very old are at the most risk, as are those with compromised immune systems.
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 2, 2014 12:03:52 GMT -5
But djAdvocate, that's my point exactly. The fact that it presents pretty much the same as the flu is, IMHO - what scares me the most. Even when we had a really bad flu outbreak a few years back you still didn't have people washing their hands after sneezing into them, or ( ) even attempting to cover their mouth when sneezing in a highly crowded public space. I'll admit, I'm a bit of a germaphobe. I've worked in both the food service industry and in hospitals and nursing homes so I've got some training in how you are supposed to do things. That and the fact that I have asthma makes me more at risk of complications from the flu and other viruses so I'm highly sensitive to the wet hacking and uncovered sneezing of the moron on the (crowded) train behind me. The general public (and even a decent % of healthcare workers) never thinks it can happen to them, so they don't take proper precautions. one of the main reasons i am NOT concerned is that the US is crazy about germs. nuts. entire houses and schools are Lysoled (tm). it is nutty the degree to which we obsess over bacteria that is shrugged off in Europe. when you look at Liberia, you see something really dramatically different in terms of sanitation, and common practice. which is why they are in trouble.
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 2, 2014 12:05:29 GMT -5
Yes. This was posted over 2 months ago and we all know how well it was followed... You're confusing issues. You are referring to the hospital failing to catch the victim's early symptoms, I presume. The CDC guidelines I posted were in response to your assertion that an Ebola patient must be treated in a Level 4 Bio facility, of which the US currently has only a handful. Nigeria successfully contained and resolved a similar outbreak using even more basic facilities. There's an interesting article in the NYT about how they did that: www.nytimes.com/2014/10/01/health/ebola-outbreak-in-nigeria-appears-to-be-over.html#RMS: i posted that article earlier. it failed to reassure anyone.
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 2, 2014 12:09:00 GMT -5
You're confusing issues. You are referring to the hospital failing to catch the victim's early symptoms, I presume. The CDC guidelines I posted were in response to your assertion that an Ebola patient must be treated in a Level 4 Bio facility, of which the US currently has only a handful. Nigeria successfully contained and resolved a similar outbreak using even more basic facilities. There's an interesting article in the NYT about how they did that: www.nytimes.com/2014/10/01/health/ebola-outbreak-in-nigeria-appears-to-be-over.html#RMS: i posted that article earlier. it failed to reassure anyone. Well, for what it's worth, I found it a fascinating read. Kudos have to go to the people in Nigeria for their quick response, coordination, and diligence! It's clear that they have some advantages over the 3 hard-hit areas, too.
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Post by b2r on Oct 2, 2014 12:33:15 GMT -5
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 2, 2014 12:35:24 GMT -5
Son, do you *really* want to test that theory in the state of Texas?
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Post by The Captain on Oct 2, 2014 12:53:34 GMT -5
We're joking about it, but if Americans were truly smart about engaging in disease prevention measures then why do we still have new cases of HIV? We know how to prevent it. It's deadly, not everyone has access to the drugs to treat it, and those drugs don't work for everyone.
Compared to stuff like the Flu and Ebola you have to, umm, really work to get that virus.
In addition, what do we do about people traveling from countries where the sanitation standards are less (like the guy who so kindly decided to bring it here). Do we require them to go through a training class before they are allowed to interact with the general public?
The fact is, there will always be a statistically significant % of the population who either will be unaware of proper hygenic rules, or who will choose not to follow them.
Personally, I would much prefer to keep the level of risk of transmission of really nasty bugs to an absolute minimum. I have much less faith in the level of committment needed to limit transmission risk (as is very clearly evidenced by the 80+ people so far known to be exposed by this one person) of the "general population" then do some here.
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 2, 2014 12:56:53 GMT -5
RMS: i posted that article earlier. it failed to reassure anyone. Well, for what it's worth, I found it a fascinating read. Kudos have to go to the people in Nigeria for their quick response, coordination, and diligence! It's clear that they have some advantages over the 3 hard-hit areas, too. i think it is quite clear that this virus is really easy to beat back, if you are paying attention. i get that people worry that we are not paying attention. really, i do. Nigeria has over 100M people. they had the disease isolated within a month. 20 people were infected, 12 died.
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Post by kittensaver on Oct 2, 2014 12:58:07 GMT -5
As with all diseases, the best cure is prevention. At this point in time, the only significant thing any *individual* can do is make sure they practice good hygiene, stay away from people who are sick (as much as humanly possible), and take some steps to bolster their immune system. A strong immune system is and always has been the best defense against sickness and disease.
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Post by b2r on Oct 2, 2014 13:15:19 GMT -5
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