Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Oct 2, 2014 13:32:37 GMT -5
I don't think its very infectious during the incubation period......so as long as the person doesn't vomit or bleed to death before they get to the other end the passengers would probably be alright. easiest thing to do would be not let people board from infected countries.... if they are showing signs of fever.
The reasons its spreading out of control are very clear. Ignorance....People are not taking relatives for treatment. They are stealing sick relatives from confinement because they are suspicious that the medical teams are actually infecting the people rather than treating them. A sort of anti- Western conspiracy. ......and they are performing unsanitary funerary rights because they don't believe the dead are infectious.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 2, 2014 13:41:57 GMT -5
it is not zero, but it is certainly "near zero".
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Oct 2, 2014 13:43:10 GMT -5
well now, this is an interesting twist to everything. linkLiberia to Prosecute Man Who Brought Ebola to United StatesMONROVIA, Liberia — Liberian authorities say they plan to prosecute the man infected with Ebola who brought the disease to the United States, saying he lied on his airport health questionnaire. With an Ebola crisis raging in West Africa, passengers leaving Liberia are being screened for fever and are asked if they have had contact with anyone infected. On the questionnaire obtained by The Associated Press, Thomas Eric Duncan answered 'no' to those questions. Neighbors say Duncan had helped a sick pregnant woman who later died of the disease. Her illness at the time was believed to be pregnancy-related. Binyah Kesselly, chairman of the board of directors of the Liberia Airport Authority, told reporters Thursday that Duncan will be prosecuted when he returns to Liberia.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 2, 2014 13:45:44 GMT -5
well now, this is an interesting twist to everything. linkLiberia to Prosecute Man Who Brought Ebola to United StatesMONROVIA, Liberia — Liberian authorities say they plan to prosecute the man infected with Ebola who brought the disease to the United States, saying he lied on his airport health questionnaire. With an Ebola crisis raging in West Africa, passengers leaving Liberia are being screened for fever and are asked if they have had contact with anyone infected. On the questionnaire obtained by The Associated Press, Thomas Eric Duncan answered 'no' to those questions. Neighbors say Duncan had helped a sick pregnant woman who later died of the disease. Her illness at the time was believed to be pregnancy-related. Binyah Kesselly, chairman of the board of directors of the Liberia Airport Authority, told reporters Thursday that Duncan will be prosecuted when he returns to Liberia. If he lives. This seems a bit symbolic. If he dies, it won't matter one bit. If he lives, prosecution probably won't be something he'll be too afraid of.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Oct 2, 2014 13:46:19 GMT -5
Right. Becuase people won't lie to protect their own self interest, even if it puts others at risk.
That is exactly my point.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 2, 2014 13:48:02 GMT -5
As an update, the Hawaii patient has been ruled out as an Ebola case. khon2.com/2014/10/01/patient-in-isolation-in-honolulu-hospital-officials-say-ebola-a-possibility/UPDATE: Hawaii Department of Health has ruled out Ebola in a Honolulu patient who was reported Wednesday as a possible case. “After investigation by the health department, it was determined that the individual did not meet the clinical or travel exposure criteria for an Ebola infection,” said Health Director Dr. Linda Rosen. Click here for more information.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Oct 2, 2014 13:49:58 GMT -5
well now, this is an interesting twist to everything. linkLiberia to Prosecute Man Who Brought Ebola to United StatesMONROVIA, Liberia — Liberian authorities say they plan to prosecute the man infected with Ebola who brought the disease to the United States, saying he lied on his airport health questionnaire. With an Ebola crisis raging in West Africa, passengers leaving Liberia are being screened for fever and are asked if they have had contact with anyone infected. On the questionnaire obtained by The Associated Press, Thomas Eric Duncan answered 'no' to those questions. Neighbors say Duncan had helped a sick pregnant woman who later died of the disease. Her illness at the time was believed to be pregnancy-related. Binyah Kesselly, chairman of the board of directors of the Liberia Airport Authority, told reporters Thursday that Duncan will be prosecuted when he returns to Liberia. If he lives. This seems a bit symbolic. If he dies, it won't matter one bit. If he lives, prosecution probably won't be something he'll be too afraid of. I agree. just putting the link out there b/c it didn't look like anyone else had seen it yet.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 2, 2014 13:51:19 GMT -5
Right. Becuase people won't lie to protect their own self interest, even if it puts others at risk. That is exactly my point. Yes, some will. We don't know what prompted this man to answer that question 'no' (could be self-preservation, could be denial, could be ignorance, who knows?), but this possibility is something that US authorities must consider when making their plans to deal with the risk. They may need to be more assertive about these kinds of screenings, and certainly the healthcare professionals in this case taught us that they need to be more assertive and proactive as well.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 2, 2014 13:51:29 GMT -5
Right. Becuase people won't lie to protect their own self interest, even if it puts others at risk. That is exactly my point. my point earlier is that if you make your quarantines like jails (like Liberia does), you will get a lot of this. word to the wiser: don't do that.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 2, 2014 13:52:13 GMT -5
If he lives. This seems a bit symbolic. If he dies, it won't matter one bit. If he lives, prosecution probably won't be something he'll be too afraid of. I agree. just putting the link out there b/c it didn't look like anyone else had seen it yet. I saw it too. It's an interesting development, agreed. I think Liberia doesn't want to alienate the US over this, as they need all the allies in this that they can get.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Oct 2, 2014 13:53:02 GMT -5
exactly RMS.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 2, 2014 13:54:05 GMT -5
Right. Becuase people won't lie to protect their own self interest, even if it puts others at risk. That is exactly my point. my point earlier is that if you make your quarantines like jails (like Liberia does), you will get a lot of this. word to the wiser: don't do that. I was reading about the Liberian community in North Texas' response to this, and it was interesting. Community leaders are trying to prevent people (both inside the community and outside) from associating this news with excessive fear and a stigma. Both things can cause people to react in counterproductive ways, as we've seen so much of in West Africa.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 2, 2014 14:01:02 GMT -5
Right. Becuase people won't lie to protect their own self interest, even if it puts others at risk. That is exactly my point. This is what I keep trying to say. The whole containment aspect of the plan hinges on the individual showing symptoms to make themselves known. They won't do this if they are afraid, if they think it will be detrimental to their family, or if they plain old don't want to. Imagine the different scenario if this man (or his family) hadn't called the ambulance or hadn't sought medical attention. I think it's very naive to think that people in the US won't act in the same ways we've seen people in West Africa act. Along with the man seeking treatment voluntarily, other people called the CDC and told them what was going on as well. Because in the US, there has not been the same stigma, fear, and lack of education on the subject. www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/ebola-patient-thomas-eric-duncans-nephew-i-had-call-cdc-n216326That was the day "I called CDC to get some actions taken, because I was concerned for his life and he wasn't getting the appropriate care," Duncan's nephew, Josephus Weeks, told NBC News on Wednesday night. "I feared other people might also get infected if he wasn't taken care of, and so I called them to ask them why is it a patient that might be suspected of this disease was not getting appropriate care?"
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 2, 2014 14:02:57 GMT -5
So here's my question. The first time he went to the hospital, he did tell them he had traveled from West Africa. Why did he not tell them, "Yes, I have traveled from West Africa, and Oh, BTW, I was handling an Ebola patient 4 days ago"? That seems like it would be part of a "What's not feeling well" discussion you would have with a doctor treating you. If the man himself was from Liberia - where there are huge amounts of confusion, misunderstanding, lack of education, denial, fear, and stigma to the virus - this may help explain both his unwise decision to travel and to be less than assertive about his situation with doctors. His American family says they were actively asking for help from the CDC, so they may have a whole different perception of the disease than their Liberian relative. Which is why she shouldn't be letting in people from Liberia....
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 2, 2014 14:06:27 GMT -5
If the man himself was from Liberia - where there are huge amounts of confusion, misunderstanding, lack of education, denial, fear, and stigma to the virus - this may help explain both his unwise decision to travel and to be less than assertive about his situation with doctors. His American family says they were actively asking for help from the CDC, so they may have a whole different perception of the disease than their Liberian relative. Which is why she shouldn't be letting in people from Liberia.... Travel bans have their own problems, some of which may make the situation worse, and they cannot guarantee 100% certainty of total prevention in any case.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Oct 2, 2014 14:07:22 GMT -5
Which is why she shouldn't be letting in people from Liberia.... Travel bans have their own problems, some of which may make the situation worse, and they cannot guarantee 100% certainty of total prevention in any case. IMHO, all they guarantee is a false sense of security.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 2, 2014 14:10:15 GMT -5
Travel bans have their own problems, some of which may make the situation worse, and they cannot guarantee 100% certainty of total prevention in any case. IMHO, all they guarantee is a false sense of security. And a thriving black market in forged documents showing people aren't coming from three specific countries in West Africa.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Oct 2, 2014 14:16:33 GMT -5
The ignorance, behaviors and attitudes described in post #145 describe the situation in the early days of the epidemic and may still be at work in upcountry areas affected by the epidemic.
I'm not so sure that it's an accurate description of how Ebola is being transmitted in urban areas.
There are some US journalists reporting and blogging from Monrovia who paint a story of completely overwhelmed medical facilities and a pervasive smell of bleach. There's simply too much sickness to isolate the sick.
Anti-Western attitudes do not appear to be a factor in urban Liberia.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 2, 2014 14:24:36 GMT -5
The ignorance, behaviors and attitudes described in post #145 describe the situation in the early days of the epidemic and may still be at work in upcountry areas affected by the epidemic. I'm not so sure that it's an accurate description of how Ebola is being transmitted in urban areas. There are some US journalists reporting and blogging from Monrovia who paint a story of completely overwhelmed medical facilities and a pervasive smell of bleach. There's simply too much sickness to isolate the sick. Anti-Western attitudes do not appear to be a factor in urban Liberia. Yes, crowded situations create their own kinds of hellish transmission problems. But things like death traditions and family caregiving and societal stigma would likely still be factors.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Oct 2, 2014 14:29:49 GMT -5
There are some US journalists reporting and blogging from Monrovia who paint a story of completely overwhelmed medical facilities and a pervasive smell of bleach. There's simply too much sickness to isolate the sick. This is what I'm finding too in reports from various journalists/blogs... It sounds like the powers that be are thinking of switching gears and allocating resources to just build tents/places for the sick to go... no treatment will be available... just a place to be sick (and most likely to die) away from one's family/neighbors. That's really sad. But, maybe necessary at this point. They do need a way to stem the tide.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 2, 2014 14:32:10 GMT -5
There are some US journalists reporting and blogging from Monrovia who paint a story of completely overwhelmed medical facilities and a pervasive smell of bleach. There's simply too much sickness to isolate the sick. This is what I'm finding too in reports from various journalists/blogs... It sounds like the powers that be are thinking of switching gears and allocating resources to just build tents/places for the sick to go... no treatment will be available... just a place to be sick (and most likely to die) away from one's family/neighbors. That's really sad. But, maybe necessary at this point. They do need a way to stem the tide. That's just horribly sad.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Oct 2, 2014 14:34:36 GMT -5
The ignorance, behaviors and attitudes described in post #145 describe the situation in the early days of the epidemic and may still be at work in upcountry areas affected by the epidemic. I'm not so sure that it's an accurate description of how Ebola is being transmitted in urban areas. There are some US journalists reporting and blogging from Monrovia who paint a story of completely overwhelmed medical facilities and a pervasive smell of bleach. There's simply too much sickness to isolate the sick. Anti-Western attitudes do not appear to be a factor in urban Liberia. Yes, crowded situations create their own kinds of hellish transmission problems. But things like death traditions and family caregiving and societal stigma would likely still be factors. Ebola is extra nasty because it needs humans to, well, be at their best - it needs humans to care for the sick so it can get to a new host. The people who shun the sick or who keep their distance from EVERYONE may be the one's who don't get ebola. Not really human behavior that's looked highly upon.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 2, 2014 14:39:52 GMT -5
Yes, crowded situations create their own kinds of hellish transmission problems. But things like death traditions and family caregiving and societal stigma would likely still be factors. Ebola is extra nasty because it needs humans to, well, be at their best - it needs humans to care for the sick so it can get to a new host. The people who shun the sick or who keep their distance from EVERYONE may be the one's who don't get ebola. Not really human behavior that's looked highly upon. One article I read a week or so ago was about how Ebola preys upon our humanity for its survival. It was a sadly moving way to express things.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Oct 2, 2014 14:43:33 GMT -5
Ebola is extra nasty because it needs humans to, well, be at their best - it needs humans to care for the sick so it can get to a new host. The people who shun the sick or who keep their distance from EVERYONE may be the one's who don't get ebola. Not really human behavior that's looked highly upon. One article I read a week or so ago was about how Ebola preys upon our humanity for its survival. It was a sadly moving way to express things. Just googled ebola humanity and found a Slate article.... wow. I think that was a great way to express it. and I'm sad about that.
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Oct 2, 2014 14:45:14 GMT -5
It seems Louise and three others are under a travel ban...in her apartment!
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Oct 2, 2014 14:52:12 GMT -5
FWIW: keeping with the original thoughts of this thread. I'm not overly concerned about Ebola here in the US. Yes, we're going to have cases of it. And yes, some people may die. But I suspect it will be small pockets of people involved.
No one seems overly concerned about the approx 50K deaths per year from Influenza and Pneumonia in the US. I'm not sure why everyone has their undies in a bunch over the potential for a handful of ebola victims in the US. Ebola isn't contagious the way the flu (or pneumonia) is...
I imagine the interesting stuff will happen around the people who are at risk and have to NOT GO TO WORK OR SCHOOL for 21 days while they wait to be declared 'not infected'. Americans seem to be barely able to get their employers to give them leave for childbirth (with or without pay). I suspect being in a state of ebola quarentine (not sick but having been exposed) will fall under short term leave? How's that gonna work? and how many lives are going to be dramatically changed because they lost their job/pay while they waited to find out they weren't infected.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 2, 2014 15:29:16 GMT -5
Right. Becuase people won't lie to protect their own self interest, even if it puts others at risk. That is exactly my point. This is what I keep trying to say. The whole containment aspect of the plan hinges on the individual showing symptoms to make themselves known. They won't do this if they are afraid, if they think it will be detrimental to their family, or if they plain old don't want to. Imagine the different scenario if this man (or his family) hadn't called the ambulance or hadn't sought medical attention. I think it's very naive to think that people in the US won't act in the same ways we've seen people in West Africa act. the message needs to get out that we will, as an example, provide free medical care- scratch that- free POTENTIALLY LIFE SAVING medical care- if they come in.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 2, 2014 15:39:03 GMT -5
I imagine the interesting stuff will happen around the people who are at risk and have to NOT GO TO WORK OR SCHOOL for 21 days while they wait to be declared 'not infected'. Americans seem to be barely able to get their employers to give them leave for childbirth (with or without pay). I suspect being in a state of ebola quarentine (not sick but having been exposed) will fall under short term leave? How's that gonna work? and how many lives are going to be dramatically changed because they lost their job/pay while they waited to find out they weren't infected. That's an interesting question. I just googled the subject and came up with several private sick leave policies that specified quarantine as sick leave. Although it's also good to remember that 'monitoring' is not necessarily the same as quarantine in many of the cases where people just had contact with someone who had contact with the sufferer.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 2, 2014 16:02:40 GMT -5
If the man himself was from Liberia - where there are huge amounts of confusion, misunderstanding, lack of education, denial, fear, and stigma to the virus - this may help explain both his unwise decision to travel and to be less than assertive about his situation with doctors. His American family says they were actively asking for help from the CDC, so they may have a whole different perception of the disease than their Liberian relative. Which is why she shouldn't be letting in people from Liberia.... once again, playing Rocky's line of thinking: a plane arrives in Houston from Brussels. it has someone on it with Ebola symptoms. what happens next? turn the plane around? make it sit on the tarmac for 21 days?
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 2, 2014 16:06:10 GMT -5
Which is why she shouldn't be letting in people from Liberia.... once again, playing Rocky's line of thinking: a plane arrives in Houston from Brussels. it has someone on it with Ebola symptoms. what happens next? turn the plane around? make it sit on the tarmac for 21 days? Just to clarify, that would be very unlikely to happen, as authorities are doing screening for symptoms on both ends of flights these days.
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