djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 30, 2014 16:23:02 GMT -5
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Sept 30, 2014 16:35:42 GMT -5
I am absolutely dead set against any travel ban. If anything, we should be begging commercial airlines to continue flights. It will be very hard to fight this thing if those flights stop. All of those desperately needed doctors fly commercial.
We have the material and medical knowledge to fight this thing. It will be fascinating to find out what survival rates are in first world institutions.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Sept 30, 2014 16:46:25 GMT -5
It's probably a moot issue. The airlines are probably going to suspend flights on their own. They probably had drafts of the announcement written up in anticipation of the first unannounced Ebola case arriving in the US.
There's no way on earth they'll fly there but fly back empty.
I spent three of the happiest years of my life in Liberia. The surnames mentioned in news articles mean something to me.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Sept 30, 2014 16:48:24 GMT -5
I am absolutely dead set against any travel ban. If anything, we should be begging commercial airlines to continue flights. It will be very hard to fight this thing if those flights stop. All of those desperately needed doctors fly commercial. We have the material and medical knowledge to fight this thing. It will be fascinating to find out what survival rates are in first world institutions. How about we let them go, but not come back until they've been properly quarantined somewhere other than the US? Sounds like a good compromise to me If the US would require quarantines, it seems like the best way to manage that with certainty would be under US control, with proper technology and oversight, rather than in other countries' control (or lack thereof).
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Sept 30, 2014 17:03:53 GMT -5
I spent three of the happiest years of my life in Liberia. The surnames mentioned in news articles mean something to me. I truly am sorry for the people affected. Personally I can't imagine a worse fate for those who get sick and their families. I really do encourage and applaud all those willing and able to go over to help. I just don't think it's a good idea to be nonchalant about the risk that it poses traveling back. I think there's a lot of room between 'nonchalant' and 'travel ban', though.
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Sept 30, 2014 17:19:23 GMT -5
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Post by Blonde Granny on Sept 30, 2014 17:47:38 GMT -5
You can bet that the airline this person traveled on will be getting hit with a lawsuit within days.
I thought the director of the CDC was a little nonchalant when having the press conference this afternoon. He seemed far more interested in protecting the privacy rights of the patient rather than worrying about all those who were on the plane with him, and how many people he has come in contact with since his arrival.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2014 17:50:19 GMT -5
It was just a matter of time, it won't be AS hard to contain here as in West Africa. If I was on that flight I sure wouldn't mind if the CDC released that information.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Sept 30, 2014 17:56:16 GMT -5
I'm embarrassed as hell for the person that would sue the airline. They've chosen to broadcast their selfishness and weak grasp of the law to the world.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 30, 2014 18:03:47 GMT -5
You can bet that the airline this person traveled on will be getting hit with a lawsuit within days.
I thought the director of the CDC was a little nonchalant when having the press conference this afternoon. He seemed far more interested in protecting the privacy rights of the patient rather than worrying about all those who were on the plane with him, and how many people he has come in contact with since his arrival. My understanding is Ebola only becomes contageous once the symptoms begin (fever, vomiting, diarrhea, and often bleeding inside and outside the body). The patient's symptoms did not begin to manifest themselves until several days after his return flight from Liberia. So there is a very good possibility no one on the plane was in any danger as no one on the aircraft (as far as anyone knows) came in contact with his body fluids.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Sept 30, 2014 18:09:22 GMT -5
It was just a matter of time, it won't be AS hard to contain here as in West Africa. If I was on that flight I sure wouldn't mind if the CDC released that information. Containing it in our society is light-years easier than containing it in West Africa for so many reasons.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 30, 2014 18:23:47 GMT -5
It is only a surface hazard if the patient's body fluids were improperly handled by others. I would imagine the majority of those who contracted Ebola in Africa this outbreak did not contract it by eating infected bushmeat. They contracted it through improper contact with a sufferer's body fluids, usually through tending to a family member or contracted it at a primitive, remote, medical 'clinic'.
Clean and sterile surroundings limits the spread of Ebola.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Sept 30, 2014 18:25:46 GMT -5
The real problem in my opinion, is that they don't know how long it lives on surfaces. It could be 30 seconds, 30 hours, or 30 days. That increases risk exposure by non-direct patient means. No, we don't know that. Nor have we actually pinned down when people start shedding the virus. But the good news is that it is a virus and those usually break down pretty fast in the presence of UV light. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the protocol for dealing with possibly Ebola-infected bodily fluids on surfaces becomes "Douse it with bleach and do not wipe it up." We don't have a good system for dealing with the mountains of medical waste that treating Ebola patients generates. We'll get past the bottlenecks eventually, but in the interim, spray and walk away might be the way to go.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Sept 30, 2014 18:32:04 GMT -5
Clean and sterile surroundings limits the spread of Ebola. I'd be all for more thorough cleaning of planes!
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Sept 30, 2014 18:51:18 GMT -5
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Sept 30, 2014 19:36:52 GMT -5
It's impossible for me to read the coverage of today's announcement without coming to the conclusion that thousands of people knew that it was only a matter of time before a undiagnosed Ebola patient showed up in the US. The coverage and response was way too measured for this to be a surprise.
It's an eerie feeling knowing that something newsworthy will happen but it's better not to talk about it until it does.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 30, 2014 19:44:55 GMT -5
It's impossible for me to read the coverage of today's announcement without coming to the conclusion that thousands of people knew that it was only a matter of time before a undiagnosed Ebola patient showed up in the US. The coverage and response was way too measured for this to be a surprise. It's an eerie feeling knowing that something newsworthy will happen but it's better not to talk about it until it does. I knew it, haapai. I think, probably, most healthcare professionals knew it would crop up here. We've got the facilities and the expertise to deal with it appropriately. I'm not concerned we'll become another West Africa. If I weren't old as dirt, I'd be in West Africa if the US sent people to help. My last efforts in that regard were in Haiti. I'm just too old now, and have to be here to care for mother. In a lot of ways, I'm sad that part of my life is behind me.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 1, 2014 8:19:43 GMT -5
It's impossible for me to read the coverage of today's announcement without coming to the conclusion that thousands of people knew that it was only a matter of time before a undiagnosed Ebola patient showed up in the US. The coverage and response was way too measured for this to be a surprise. It's an eerie feeling knowing that something newsworthy will happen but it's better not to talk about it until it does. Was that a surprise to you? I'd have been shocked if thousands of people in various agencies and industries hadn't been preparing for the odd case to pop up here. No system is 100% secure for keeping out something like this. But what would have become of us if they'd spent that time getting the general public in a lather over the possibility/probability of the occasional isolated occurrences? This isn't West Africa, and all they needed to do was make their plans for dealing with it when it finally happened. But based on public reaction to this whole mess so far, if they'd talked about it ad nauseum (even with facts), the American public would have been out buying zombie-hunting equipment by now.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Oct 1, 2014 8:41:27 GMT -5
What surprises me is the discipline that it takes not to say publicly that "It's coming", "It will get here", "It's a matter of time". We were all very scrupulous about not saying "when it gets here", at least when there was a possibility of our remarks being broadcast.
We're usually not that disciplined, nor is the media.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 1, 2014 8:45:50 GMT -5
What surprises me is the discipline that it takes not to say publicly that "It's coming", "It will get here", "It's a matter of time". We were all very scrupulous about not saying "when it gets here", at least when there was a possibility of our remarks being broadcast. We're usually not that disciplined, nor is the media. I felt like that idea was implied, but you're right, not strictly stated. But I think that intelligent, trained professionals (I'm not speaking of media coverage here) aware of the facts were always aware of the consequences to the public psyche and social order if they did not carefully choose their words/behavior when dealing with something as fear-mongering as Ebola. That is great motivation.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 1, 2014 8:57:45 GMT -5
Was that a surprise to you? I'd have been shocked if thousands of people in various agencies and industries hadn't been preparing for the odd case to pop up here. No system is 100% secure for keeping out something like this. But what would have become of us if they'd spent that time getting the general public in a lather over the possibility/probability of the occasional isolated occurrences? This isn't West Africa, and all they needed to do was make their plans for dealing with it when it finally happened. But based on public reaction to this whole mess so far, if they'd talked about it ad nauseum (even with facts), the American public would have been out buying zombie-hunting equipment by now. The problem is when those preparations fail. Much like they did when the patient first went to the hospital and was sent home. People can prepare all they want, but humans are prone to and likely to make mistakes. This is when all the planning in the world becomes worthless. I disagree that the planning is worthless, even when a mistake happens along the way. The planning and preparing is what prevents a mistake or an oversight from becoming a real disaster. Preparation meant that even though someone didn't recognize the very early symptoms in this person, when that oversight was recognized, immediate isolation and contact tracing went into immediate effect. I think I read this morning that they said that all the people he/she has been in contact with since becoming contagious have already been located and are being monitored.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 1, 2014 10:15:05 GMT -5
I never said it was worthless... just prone to ineffectiveness. How about we put some effort into preventing rather than treating. Actually, you said worthless. I disagree on both terms, though. And there is effort being put into preventing.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 1, 2014 10:38:26 GMT -5
Yep, you're right I did. But you do have to agree. The efforts planning in that case didn't exactly yield results. I disagree, and I've already stated the reasons why.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 1, 2014 10:48:03 GMT -5
So the plans worked perfectly when the man went to the ER and was sent home with antibiotics. Glad you cleared that up for me. And here I was worried that all of our planning wouldn't work. I never said the 'plans worked perfectly'. I said they are important in preventing one oversight from becoming a disaster. I was clear, but you're obviously not interested in calm and reasoned debate on this subject. That's fine.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 1, 2014 11:02:43 GMT -5
Obviously I'm not. I guess I just don't understand exactly what you are trying to say. Is it that the US is in no danger? That this is not a serious problem? The gov't and health system have everything under control? We've planned for this, so there's nothing to see here? I'm not saying any of the above. I was very clear in what I've said, and restating it will not help since it's not the answer you're looking for.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 1, 2014 11:07:54 GMT -5
We don't protect our borders anyway. Sick kids in Denver. Some are paralyzed. Where'd that come from? I don't believe anything the govt and his minions say. They're proven liars.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 1, 2014 11:14:54 GMT -5
We don't protect our borders anyway. Sick kids in Denver. Some are paralyzed. Where'd that come from? I don't believe anything the govt and his minions say. They're proven liars. not from Ebola. it is relatively easy to diagnose, and not especially communicable. don't get rattled. even a third world s(*thole like Nigeria can handle this disease.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 1, 2014 11:15:43 GMT -5
Obviously I'm not. I guess I just don't understand exactly what you are trying to say. Is it that the US is in no danger? That this is not a serious problem? The gov't and health system have everything under control? We've planned for this, so there's nothing to see here? i know you were joking, but i think this is mostly true.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 1, 2014 11:15:45 GMT -5
I know those kids in Denver didnt get sick from Ebola.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 1, 2014 11:16:57 GMT -5
I know those kids in Denver didnt get sick from Ebola. ok, sorry. i misunderstood you.
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