fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Oct 1, 2014 13:45:43 GMT -5
I don't think we have much to worry about Ebola in the United States, however, I do hope it is a wake up call that we need to be better prepared.
Didn't they used to quarantine people on Ellis Island if they looked remotely sick? With the current issue with immigration there is a real risk for a contagious person coming across the border and infecting others. This isn't really a problem with Ebola because once you are contagious you are probably not going to be traveling, but there are other viruses and diseases, that might be problematic.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 1, 2014 13:48:25 GMT -5
Viruses are everywhere. There's no way to protect the population from freaking viruses, people. We've had MERS in this country. We've had lassa fever in this country. We'll have them again, and we'll have others we haven't even heard of yet. Some of them will come from other countries. Some will be home-grown.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 1, 2014 14:36:00 GMT -5
I am absolutely dead set against any travel ban. If anything, we should be begging commercial airlines to continue flights. It will be very hard to fight this thing if those flights stop. All of those desperately needed doctors fly commercial. We have the material and medical knowledge to fight this thing. It will be fascinating to find out what survival rates are in first world institutions. How about we let them go, but not come back until they've been properly quarantined somewhere other than the US? Sounds like a good compromise to me quarantines were tried in Liberia, and failed, because nobody wants to be quarantined, so they just don't report. we can learn from that, or we can expect similar results.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 1, 2014 14:38:08 GMT -5
It was just a matter of time, it won't be AS hard to contain here as in West Africa. If I was on that flight I sure wouldn't mind if the CDC released that information. unless you were "mile high clubbing" with said victim, there would be little point in having that information.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 1, 2014 14:40:08 GMT -5
It's impossible for me to read the coverage of today's announcement without coming to the conclusion that thousands of people knew that it was only a matter of time before a undiagnosed Ebola patient showed up in the US. The coverage and response was way too measured for this to be a surprise. It's an eerie feeling knowing that something newsworthy will happen but it's better not to talk about it until it does. Was that a surprise to you? I'd have been shocked if thousands of people in various agencies and industries hadn't been preparing for the odd case to pop up here. No system is 100% secure for keeping out something like this. But what would have become of us if they'd spent that time getting the general public in a lather over the possibility/probability of the occasional isolated occurrences? This isn't West Africa, and all they needed to do was make their plans for dealing with it when it finally happened. But based on public reaction to this whole mess so far, if they'd talked about it ad nauseum (even with facts), the American public would have been out buying zombie-hunting equipment by now. imo, it is pretty much certifiable for anyone to think that having a case of Ebola in the US is a synonym for "not being prepared". Americans just can go a month without freaking out about something. killer bees, now this.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 1, 2014 14:42:51 GMT -5
Yep, you're right I did. But you do have to agree. The efforts planning in that case didn't exactly yield results. you are never going to get to 100% on everything. fortunately Ebola is not very contagious.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 1, 2014 14:47:42 GMT -5
quarantines were tried in Liberia, and failed, because nobody wants to be quarantined, so they just don't report. we can learn from that, or we can expect similar results. Wait I thought isolation was one of the cornerstones our our great "PLAN" what would have happened if the guy in Dallas didn't go to the hospital or if he went and was sent home? How well does that plan work in those situations? What makes you think that people in this country aren't just as irrational when it comes to quarantine? I think it's much easier to look at a passport and say... hmm you've been in Liberia, perhaps you ought to just sit right down for 21-23 days until we're sure you aren't sick. That seems a lot easier to me to control. i think you misunderstood me. the types of quarantines i was referring to were basically throwing people in jail that were suspected of having the virus, thereby increasing the risk that they will become infect, if not, and creating "Leper Colonies" if they are. hospital isolation is totally different. i already said that a mistake was made. we can learn from that hopefully, or we might conceivably lose more than the dozen lives that were lost in Nigeria.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 1, 2014 14:58:51 GMT -5
quarantines were tried in Liberia, and failed, because nobody wants to be quarantined, so they just don't report. we can learn from that, or we can expect similar results. Wait I thought isolation was one of the cornerstones our our great "PLAN" what would have happened if the guy in Dallas didn't go to the hospital or if he went and was sent home? How well does that plan work in those situations? What makes you think that people in this country aren't just as irrational when it comes to quarantine? I think it's much easier to look at a passport and say... hmm you've been in Liberia, perhaps you ought to just sit right down for 21-23 days until we're sure you aren't sick. That seems a lot easier to me to control. As opposed to one person in an existing quarantine facility and a team monitoring 12-18 people in one city, you're suggesting that the US create, staff, and pay for how many quarantine centers around the world? This man came from Brussels, apparently. So, do we set up a US-run quarantine center in every city with an airport, then stick anyone from West Africa in there for up to a month? Do we pay to have the military flying potential passengers who are willing to wait 3 weeks in isolation despite having no contact with anyone who'd had the virus, in specially-outfitted planes to a central quarantine center? And if we start quarantining people who have had no contact with the virus, but happen to be from West Africa, along with people who have had contact, are we creating a problem where one would not have existed before? I'm just curious about the logistics of your proposed plan, because I don't see the airports looking to have all the West African passengers living 'Terminal' style in their lounges for a month.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 1, 2014 15:33:40 GMT -5
It means stopping them from getting on a plane. They can sit wherever they are until they prove they're not contagious. Okay, so the US says, hey Belgium, this guy is your problem even though he's had no symptoms or been around anyone with the virus. We are stranding him here in your airport simply because he's from West Africa. Have fun! We deny him further passage and offer no kind of oversight, renumeration, or assistance for his quarantine period which now you must oversee because he's in your country. Hot Potato! Either (a) we think he might have a deadly disease, so we'd prefer he kill people in the Brussels airport where we're leaving him alone and unsupervised to infect others, or (b) he's perfectly safe, in which case we've saddled an innocent man and the country of Brussels with a huge cost (3 weeks of food, lodging, transportation) for no reason other than unwarranted paranoia. You're welcome, Brussels! Be sure to tell the rest of the world what a great country we are in the international community! We have comment cards here if you'd like to fill one out while you wait.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 1, 2014 15:39:19 GMT -5
Rocky: you are smacking them for extra bases every time you step up to the plate.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Oct 1, 2014 15:53:40 GMT -5
It means stopping them from getting on a plane. They can sit wherever they are until they prove they're not contagious. Sroo, there aren't any direct flights any more. Delta suspended flights a month ago. BA did the same. Currently, the only flights out of Liberia are to Brussels and Freetown. The Belgians are not going to impose a quarantine on our behalf. Sierra Leone has it's own Ebola outbreak to deal with. They don't need to be housing our "maybes" for weeks in their capital. In the absence of direct flights, attempting to interdict travelers from Liberia means scrutinizing the passport of every single passenger on every flight from Europe, including all US citizens. Since entrance and exit stamps are frequently put where they will fit, which is not the same as chronological order, ascertaining that a passenger has not been to West Africa in the last 21 days is a bit time consuming and we're likely to miss a lot of them. We also don't have the quarantine space. To do what you are suggesting would require hundreds of beds in several US cities that have international airports. Handing out pamphlets at Roberts Field might be a more effective way of fighting this monster. Handing someone on an outbound flight a piece of paper that reminds them that US doctors are really bad about asking about recent travel and begging them to mention their recent travel to every health care professional that they might encounter for the next month might do more than any quarantine. ETA: I'm appalled that I confused Cape Town and Freetown. Maybe I've edited that out of my post neatly. Maybe my attempt to edit out my error is a mess. If so, it will have to stay messy. A credibility-sapping goof like that is a sign to stay away from the keyboard for the rest of the day.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Oct 1, 2014 16:07:06 GMT -5
I want to believe that doctors in our country would catch something like this early, but DS's recent visit to the ER reminded me once again that not all doctors graduate at the top of the class. DS's doctor skipped minor test that I specifically requested, stating it was "not necessary". A few days later at the regular doctor's office, this time a different doctor ran the requested test, & caught what the first doctor missed. Idiots! And, that is why I'm not convinced we'll always catch every case of Ebola right away. I'm not going to panic about it, but our medical system is just not THAT talented.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 1, 2014 16:13:06 GMT -5
I want to believe that doctors in our country would catch something like this early, but DS's recent visit to the ER reminded me once again that not all doctors graduate at the top of the class. DS's doctor skipped minor test that I specifically requested, stating it was "not necessary". A few days later at the regular doctor's office, this time a different doctor ran the requested test, & caught what the first doctor missed. Idiots! And, that is why I'm not convinced we'll always catch every case of Ebola right away. I'm not going to panic about it, but our medical system is just not THAT talented. Yes, the one failing in this whole process has been that the hospital failed to be on the lookout as much as it rightly should have been. There were a couple of clues that were egregiously missed. I hope this will stir them to provide more training to medical workers and focus on being proactive.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 1, 2014 16:21:58 GMT -5
Why would Brussels be on the hook for anything? Because in your scenario, the US stranded the potential Ebola carrier in Brussels Airport when he couldn't get on a plane to Dallas (no direct flights), and refused to do anything but tell him to sit in the airport for 21 days. I hope that Belgium doesn't do the same thing to the US! We'd be mad.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Oct 1, 2014 16:30:14 GMT -5
It is my understanding the CDC is working with the countries with Ebola to screen passengers at the airport gate(s) for fever. If the passenger has a fever, the passenger is pulled from the flight and screened for Ebola. Should the passenger have positive symptoms for Ebola, they are not/will not be allowed to leave the country.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 1, 2014 16:33:05 GMT -5
It is my understanding the CDC is working with the countries with Ebola to screen passengers at the airport gate(s) for fever. If the passenger has a fever, the passenger is pulled from the flight and screened for Ebola. Should the passenger have positive symptoms for Ebola, they are not/will not be allowed to leave the country. Yes, screening is being done on both ends of flights these days, I think. This person had no symptoms until something like 4 days after his flight.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 1, 2014 16:59:00 GMT -5
So that would be a problem with this plan, right? Seriously I give up. Let's just not check anyone it will all work out in the end, right? Sure, you've all convinced me that despite what has happened in recent days, everything will be fine. Since no one in this whole conversation has even slightly suggested that the checking being already done(!) by governments and airlines - as well as other protective and preventative measures - be stopped, I'm pretty sure you're just trying to be obtuse. Well, I was already sure of that, so that's fine. And if you failed to see any problems in your plan for travel bans on all West Africans, then I'm just glad you're not in charge of such decision-making.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 1, 2014 17:05:14 GMT -5
Since no one in this whole conversation has even slightly suggested that the checking being already done(!) by governments and airlines - as well as other protective and preventative measures - be stopped, I'm pretty sure you're just trying to be obtuse. Well, I was already sure of that, so that's fine. And if you failed to see any problems in your plan for travel bans on all West Africans, then I'm just glad you're not in charge of such decision-making. Like I said, you've all convinced me. No problems here... Right.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 1, 2014 17:11:41 GMT -5
Yes, I and others in this very thread already mentioned the necessity of more training for medical workers and being more proactive in the hospitals.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 1, 2014 18:04:10 GMT -5
Since no one in this whole conversation has even slightly suggested that the checking being already done(!) by governments and airlines - as well as other protective and preventative measures - be stopped, I'm pretty sure you're just trying to be obtuse. Well, I was already sure of that, so that's fine. And if you failed to see any problems in your plan for travel bans on all West Africans, then I'm just glad you're not in charge of such decision-making. Like I said, you've all convinced me. No problems here... really? it doesn't seem like it. it seems like you are dismissing everyone as if they are a bunch of reckless idiots.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Oct 1, 2014 18:35:58 GMT -5
Well, the local media here is now reporting we may have case #2 of Ebola. They aren't identifying the patient, but did mention this person had been in contact with patient #1. Sooo, how many more cases do you think we'll see in Texas?
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 1, 2014 18:50:15 GMT -5
Well, the local media here is now reporting we may have case #2 of Ebola. They aren't identifying the patient, but did mention this person had been in contact with patient #1. Sooo, how many more cases do you think we'll see in Texas? www.foxnews.com/health/2014/10/01/officials-monitoring-second-possible-ebola-patient-in-us/I've seen only a couple of reports on this as well. The person is one of the 18 'close friends and family' being monitored and is of special concern although they don't specify why. I'm not sure if it's because this person is actually ill, or because he/she may have had particularly close contact with Mr. Duncan after becoming symptomatic. My first thought was that it may be someone who was helping care for him when he got really sick before being returned to the hospital. Casual contact is one thing, but caregiving has been one of the biggest transmission problems in the outbreak. That would be the most likely candidate to catch the virus.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 1, 2014 19:26:59 GMT -5
Well, the local media here is now reporting we may have case #2 of Ebola. They aren't identifying the patient, but did mention this person had been in contact with patient #1. Sooo, how many more cases do you think we'll see in Texas? it is transmitted by bodily fluid, so i am guessing it is someone who is not just in contact with said individual. i am counting the number of people who have been in contact with my fluids in the last (4) days, and i am getting ONE. how about you?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 1, 2014 19:41:49 GMT -5
Well, the local media here is now reporting we may have case #2 of Ebola. They aren't identifying the patient, but did mention this person had been in contact with patient #1. Sooo, how many more cases do you think we'll see in Texas? it is transmitted by bodily fluid, so i am guessing it is someone who is not just in contact with said individual. i am counting the number of people who have been in contact with my fluids in the last (4) days, and i am getting ONE. how about you? Except...recent reports having him puking all over outside the apartment building when they were trying to get him into an ambulance.
I am beyond pissed that this jackass put my country at risk. He personally transported a woman to the hospital who died from Ebola (according to cnn). He knew he was at risk and hid that fact to get into my country (I'm guessing for treatment).
If Brussels won't stop flights from the effected countries then I believe we should stop flights to/from Brussels.
I can't believe how many of you think this is truly no big deal.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Oct 1, 2014 20:43:20 GMT -5
Hmmm..."jackass"...
I'm gonna try to be restrained here. I'm gonna be gosh darn understated.
It's hard to get diagnosed with malaria in this country. You can go to a doctor with the symptoms of malaria, tell the intake nurse of your recent travels to a place where malaria is endemic and strains of malaria resistant to your prophalactic measures are common, mention the travel again to the physician, and still be sent home with a script for something as useless as a placebo.
In other words, I'm not sure that this guy did anything wrong. Our healthcare personnel totally s*** at detecting tropical diseases even when the patient pretty much tells them what they need to consider.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 1, 2014 21:01:42 GMT -5
it is transmitted by bodily fluid, so i am guessing it is someone who is not just in contact with said individual. i am counting the number of people who have been in contact with my fluids in the last (4) days, and i am getting ONE. how about you? Except...recent reports having him puking all over outside the apartment building when they were trying to get him into an ambulance.
I am beyond pissed that this jackass put my country at risk. He personally transported a woman to the hospital who died from Ebola (according to cnn). He knew he was at risk and hid that fact to get into my country (I'm guessing for treatment).
If Brussels won't stop flights from the effected countries then I believe we should stop flights to/from Brussels.
I can't believe how many of you think this is truly no big deal.
i don't think EBOLA is that big of a deal. i have not commented on this person at all. he may be an angel or a complete asshole, and i really would not know.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 1, 2014 21:06:57 GMT -5
Hmmm..."jackass"... I'm gonna try to be restrained here. I'm gonna be gosh darn understated. It's hard to get diagnosed with malaria in this country. You can go to a doctor with the symptoms of malaria, tell the intake nurse of your recent travels to a place where malaria is endemic and strains of malaria resistant to your prophalactic measures are common, mention the travel again to the physician, and still be sent home with a script for something as useless as a placebo. In other words, I'm not sure that this guy did anything wrong. Our healthcare personnel totally s*** at detecting tropical diseases even when the patient pretty much tells them what they need to consider. Why restrain yourself? Reports have him transporting a woman to the hospital, who died a day later form Ebola...sorry, you might be ok with that but he had to know he was at risk. He didn't care about the safety of ANYONE in this country. So yes, he is a fucking jackass.
And don't get me started on the healthcare personnel that totally blew it...what more proof do you need that we aren't prepared to deal with this??
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 1, 2014 21:15:41 GMT -5
Hmmm..."jackass"... I'm gonna try to be restrained here. I'm gonna be gosh darn understated. It's hard to get diagnosed with malaria in this country. You can go to a doctor with the symptoms of malaria, tell the intake nurse of your recent travels to a place where malaria is endemic and strains of malaria resistant to your prophalactic measures are common, mention the travel again to the physician, and still be sent home with a script for something as useless as a placebo. In other words, I'm not sure that this guy did anything wrong. Our healthcare personnel totally s*** at detecting tropical diseases even when the patient pretty much tells them what they need to consider. Why restrain yourself? Reports have him transporting a woman to the hospital, who died a day later form Ebola...sorry, you might be ok with that but he had to know he was at risk. He didn't care about the safety of ANYONE in this country. So yes, he is a fucking jackass.
And don't get me started on the healthcare personnel that totally blew it...what more proof do you need that we aren't prepared to deal with this??
this was probably meant as a rhetorical question, but my answer is that i need a LOT more proof.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 1, 2014 21:17:56 GMT -5
Why restrain yourself? Reports have him transporting a woman to the hospital, who died a day later form Ebola...sorry, you might be ok with that but he had to know he was at risk. He didn't care about the safety of ANYONE in this country. So yes, he is a fucking jackass.
And don't get me started on the healthcare personnel that totally blew it...what more proof do you need that we aren't prepared to deal with this??
this was probably meant as a rhetorical question, but my answer is that i need a LOT more proof. When it comes to the safety of US citizens, I prefer to error on the side of caution
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Oct 1, 2014 21:18:41 GMT -5
Why is he a "f***ing jackass" but I'm not allowed to bring up the US healthcare personnel that "totally blew it"?
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