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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 8:45:39 GMT -5
Daughter is getter her nose done in November. We discussed pros and cons, she did research, came to me with a reasonable plan and I can't see how it is my right to say no at this point...
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Sept 25, 2014 8:47:38 GMT -5
Condone: accept and allow (behavior that is considered morally wrong or offensive) to continue. I guess this is the area I'm struggling with. 1) that I don't think I have a right to control my kids bodies, ie. Their bodies are not something I allow them ownership over... It's not mine to allow... And 2) ... I'm not big on classifying sex as something morally wrong or offensive. Ill work it out when the time comes I'm sure. 1. You absolutely have control over your kids bodies, the only question is what age you hand complete responsibility over to them. 2. In my house it is talked about as smart or not. It is not smart to have sex with boys you don't know well and aren't sure they care about your well being, it's not smart to risk getting pregnant etc. I'm not going to encourage unwise choices.
Really? I'd like to know exactly how I'm supposed to make my 2 yo use a toilet instead of her diaper. If I knew how to "make" my kids do that, I'd make millions selling that potty training method book. How am I supposed to control my kids from exploring their body? Keep their hands tied up if I'm not with them? We aren't keen on the family bed/bedroom, and that would require me to never sleep. That lack of sleep thing didn't go too well for me the first year of dd2's life. We frame everything as being appropriate or not. And I look at things in the long term. Not just getting them through HS without any major issues. My kids know what may be appropriate for the 10 yo is not appropriate for the 6 year old. My DS can handle not so good language because he has a filter and will not repeat words. DD1, um, no. DH and I sexting is appropriate. Sexting in high school is not. All of the kids will have to be on the lookout for potentially addictive behavior, since addiction runs in DH's family. Again, having a drink could be completely appropriate for them. And then again, it could completely inappropriate for them. DS knows drinking and driving is always inappropriate. I also tell me oldest that I expect him to (and the other two) do a few boneheaded things in their teens/early 20's. It's going to happen. I tell them I have no idea what they will pull, but it's very likely they will pull something. My hope is to give them the skills they need to have learned their lessons while minimizing the damage in the process. DS always gets offended at me when i say that, because he's such a rule follower. ETA: I also will not assume that my kids will be "good" kids in HS like DH and I were. I hope they will make good choices. We constantly talk about good choices, problem solving, evaluating our choices., and discuss consequences of their behavior. But, in the end, they will be making their own choices and living with their actions.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 8:59:10 GMT -5
Daughter is getter her nose done in November. We discussed pros and cons, she did research, came to me with a reasonable plan and I can't see how it is my right to say no at this point... So you're comfortable with her having a little stud in the nose. Ok. But what if she decided she liked this look? Still going along with it?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 25, 2014 9:04:04 GMT -5
Daughter is getter her nose done in November. We discussed pros and cons, she did research, came to me with a reasonable plan and I can't see how it is my right to say no at this point... So you're comfortable with her having a little stud in the nose. Ok. But what if she decided she liked this look? Still going along with it? Why not?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 9:06:38 GMT -5
I guess my kids tend to be fairly reasonable and responsible. Maybe because I never try lord it over them and recognize they are reasonable and responsible?
Im guessing the person in that picture is much more likely to have had a parent that said 'no way, he'll no way' ... Than ok, seems reasonable, to the first stud...
Lol. Maybe I just don't want my kids to spend their 20s figuring out that not every action/response has to be about unlearning/relearning responses bred in childhood/adolescence... I want them to have a healthier time of it than I did...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 9:08:14 GMT -5
Well, I grew up with zero rules and nobody telling me to not do anything. I don't recommend it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 9:13:52 GMT -5
I'd rather have the kids, as Gira says, be making their own choices, for their own reasons, and learning from the consequences, than be making decisions based on their reactions to me...
Im textbook, lol.
People talk about eating disorders as 'subconsciously stuffing anger'... No subconscious about it, every bite of eating I snuck after school when B stepmom thought I was exercising went down to the mantra, Hate that b, hate that b! Hate that b...
She moved out and I immediately lost 20 lb...
Sex at 15... With the neighbor boy my father hated, and who hated my father... All about Dad and what would piss him off... Sneaking around and 'being bad'...
Sorry if I'm trying to decide how to present a different option...
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 25, 2014 9:15:20 GMT -5
While I fully accept that the intimacy of love making in a committed relationship is a wonderful thing .... Two bodies slamming each other can be a hell of a lot of fun. (that is if your head isn't too full of shame)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 9:15:21 GMT -5
Well, I grew up with zero rules and nobody telling me to not do anything. I don't recommend it. Guidance is not the same as laying down the law. And personally I think my kids are more open to guidance because we aren't lay down the law types...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 9:15:47 GMT -5
Interesting how often people want to raise their kids the opposite of how they were raised.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Sept 25, 2014 9:16:36 GMT -5
I think there's a lot of middle ground between "zero rules" and exerting control over your teen's body...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 9:20:35 GMT -5
I want to say we don't have 'zero rules'... But then I'm trying to think of what rules we have? I guess none of them, at this point, are absolute? They are all negotiable...
I'd guess treat people with respect. That might be the most consistent 'rule'...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 9:21:13 GMT -5
1. You absolutely have control over your kids bodies, the only question is what age you hand complete responsibility over to them. 2. In my house it is talked about as smart or not. It is not smart to have sex with boys you don't know well and aren't sure they care about your well being, it's not smart to risk getting pregnant etc. I'm not going to encourage unwise choices.
Really? I'd like to know exactly how I'm supposed to make my 2 yo use a toilet instead of her diaper. If I knew how to "make" my kids do that, I'd make millions selling that potty training method book. How am I supposed to control my kids from exploring their body? Keep their hands tied up if I'm not with them? We aren't keen on the family bed/bedroom, and that would require me to never sleep. That lack of sleep thing didn't go too well for me the first year of dd2's life. And yet kids do get potty trained in spite of it not being their own idea. And honestly, do you have any interest in stopping your kid from exploring their body?
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Sept 25, 2014 9:22:52 GMT -5
I think there's a lot of middle ground between "zero rules" and exerting control over your teen's body... Thank you. I have absolutely never said my kid will not have rules/boundaries/limitations. I haven't even said for sure that I'd be cool with sleepovers. I just don't believe in policing my kid's life or body. At an appropriate age (which might be different for every kid), she's going to have to be responsible for herself. My goal is to create an open environment where things are not taboo and she can discuss her thoughts with me without fear of punishment if they differ from mine. I hate it when people equate this to "oh I'm just going to let Babybird do her thing, no restrictions, no rules, free love baby!" That's in no way my intent. I just acknowledge that her body belongs to her, not me.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 9:23:26 GMT -5
What rules do other people have? I'm curious now...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 9:24:42 GMT -5
What rules do other people have? I'm curious now... Well, for one. I make my son shower. He never would otherwise.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Sept 25, 2014 9:27:27 GMT -5
Interesting how often people want to raise their kids the opposite of how they were raised. Well, for us there is truth to that. But, for us the stakes are much higher...Not having emotional needs met in childhood has also led to huge issues for us: I self injured. For DH, it was addiction. I had it better than my mom. But, it's not that was enough to stop real damage. Honestly, If my kids started hitting themselves because they felt like they had no voice or they didn't matter, I'd feel like I'd fail as a parent. Or if my kids had to go to a therapist, read "Codependant No More" and "Boundaries", and generally learn about how normal relationships works through books, I will have failed my kids. If my kids would have chosen to marry an addict (even if they didn't know it like me) because that's the relationship system that they feel comfortable in, I will have failed. Even if my kids come home pregnant, I will not feel like I had failed. Make no mistake, I would NOT be happy. I'm not going to get them the "Joy of Sex" and take them on field trips to the upscale porn shop. But even pregnancy can be dealt with. It may be hard. The only other ways I would feel like a failure would be if they drove drunk and injured/killed someone or they do drugs and end up injuring themselves or someone else. My parents did an awful lot of right things. And I appreciate those to no end. That does not erase the fact that they still failed me.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 9:28:33 GMT -5
I think there's a lot of middle ground between "zero rules" and exerting control over your teen's body... GW has wanted a tattoo for a few years. She can't get it without a guardian signature until she is 18. I said I have no problem with tattoos but I wanted her to wait to have the best chance that she will always like what she gets. She turns 18 in a few weeks. The other day she told me she is glad she waited because what she wants has changed.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Sept 25, 2014 9:33:16 GMT -5
I think there's a lot of middle ground between "zero rules" and exerting control over your teen's body... GW has wanted a tattoo for a few years. She can't get it without a guardian signature until she is 18. I said I have no problem with tattoos but I wanted her to wait to have the best chance that she will always like what she gets. She turns 18 in a few weeks. The other day she told me she is glad she waited because what she wants has changed. I guess I don't see that as exerting control over her body, though... if you were forcing her to get a tattoo, that would be different, but simply withholding permission for something she legally needs permission to do seems reasonable. Besides, she could have always done what DH did and get a tattoo at 16 in someone's kitchen...
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Sept 25, 2014 9:33:17 GMT -5
Not even a little. Your kids are naturally reasonable and responsible, that's their inclination. My oldest is the same way. My youngest however, at 10, thinks it's perfectly ok to get off the bus and go to the house of a friend that we don't know (don't know a name, his parents, where he lives) without asking ANYONE's permission. So unphased was he by the hoopla of us hunting for him for 3 hours with police help that he went back to this friend's house right off the bus again less than a week later to ask if the kid could come to our house. He arrives home first, otherwise I'd be asking my oldest to meet him at the bus every day. My oldest arrives home and can't find DS2, but this time he shows up just a few minutes later. There is not a reasonable/responsible bone in this kid's body. We have asked the mom of another friend that is able to meet the bus to pick her child up to look out and see that he heads home. As to the original point, no, I won't be allowing sleepovers of BF/GFs.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Sept 25, 2014 9:33:45 GMT -5
I don't have any rules. At least, I can't think of any. We have a big sign of brainstormed family values on our wall that we made a year or two ago. But I honestly can't think of a single "rule" I've made. I guess I don't like the idea of rules because they limit my flexibility as a parent to make situational decisions. This does NOT mean I'm hands off or don't apply standards to our life. I'm VERY structured and my standards for my children are VERY high. But they are mostly about more vague things like character/responsibility/kindness, not how many minutes a day you can have screen time.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Sept 25, 2014 9:34:06 GMT -5
And yet kids do get potty trained in spite of it not being their own idea. And honestly, do you have any interest in stopping your kid from exploring their body? Yes, they get potty trained. But I cannot force my child to take a crap upon command. And some kids DO view it as a control issue. And will hold it in to the point of constipation or worse because kids are trying to exert/prove they have control over their own little bodies. No, we don't. But we do tell them where it's appropriate and when it's not. And just because I am OK with it doesn't mean that other families aren't.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 9:36:30 GMT -5
GW has wanted a tattoo for a few years. She can't get it without a guardian signature until she is 18. I said I have no problem with tattoos but I wanted her to wait to have the best chance that she will always like what she gets. She turns 18 in a few weeks. The other day she told me she is glad she waited because what she wants has changed. I guess I don't see that as exerting control over her body, though... if you were forcing her to get a tattoo, that would be different, but simply withholding permission for something she legally needs permission to do seems reasonable.Besides, she could have always done what DH did and get a tattoo at 16 in someone's kitchen... That's what I mean when I talk about having control. And the appropriate thing to do is hand that control over to them, hopefully after giving them a good grounding in how to take good care of it.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Sept 25, 2014 9:37:19 GMT -5
Interesting how often people want to raise their kids the opposite of how they were raised. I was about to write the same thing.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 9:38:42 GMT -5
My kids on, What do your think about tattoos in kids your age... Daughter, too young, I can take a piercing our, but not a tattoo. Son... I'm not in to tattoos, but I'm fine if someone my age gets one...
Actually daughter and I did talk snake bites. I was not nearly as comfortable with them as a small nose stud. We talked about pros and cons and cons were much greater there. Daughter said, well, maybe later on I'll think about something like that...
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Sept 25, 2014 9:42:10 GMT -5
My kids on, What do your think about tattoos in kids your age... Daughter, too young, I can take a piercing our, but not a tattoo. Son... I'm not in to tattoos, but I'm fine if someone my age gets one... Actually daughter and I did talk snake bites. I was not nearly as comfortable with them as a small nose stud. We talked about pros and cons and cons were much greater there. Daughter said, well, maybe later on I'll think about something like that... what is a snake bite?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 9:43:01 GMT -5
Interesting how often people want to raise their kids the opposite of how they were raised. I was about to write the same thing. So I should try to emulate the unhealthy environment in which I was raised? If I want different outcomes, why would I do the same things?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 9:46:20 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 9:48:19 GMT -5
I don't have any rules. At least, I can't think of any. We have a big sign of brainstormed family values on our wall that we made a year or two ago. But I honestly can't think of a single "rule" I've made. I guess I don't like the idea of rules because they limit my flexibility as a parent to make situational decisions. This does NOT mean I'm hands off or don't apply standards to our life. I'm VERY structured and my standards for my children are VERY high. But they are mostly about more vague things like character/responsibility/kindness, not how many minutes a day you can have screen time. I have curfews, let me know where you are, chores get done on the weekend, don't overload the clothes washer or use anything in a way that could break it, you break it you replace it, no skipping school...I must have absolutely terrible kids cause they wouldn't do any of that left to their own devices.
ETA - no getting drunk, no illegal drugs...I'm sure I will realize more as we go along.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 9:50:39 GMT -5
Oh, I do want a return to my text/call. That might be considered a rule. I do phrase it as a choice though... I pay half those phones because I like to be able to know you are safe, if it's just for you, you can pay the whole thing I guess... So more its a condition of my paying half. We talk about consequences of drinking, of drugs. Again, in, they could try drinking at home if they wanted. So far they haven't.
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