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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 9:54:56 GMT -5
Again, in, they could try drinking at home if they wanted. So far they haven't. I could have drank at home too, but I never did because really, the fun was in getting drunk with my friends. Not sitting around the house with my Mom hitting the Jack Daniels.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 10:09:28 GMT -5
I had pretty free rein growing up. Interestingly enough, I didn't lose my virginity until almost 18. I attribute that more to being an introvert that wasn't interested in a lot of the usual teen stuff. I didn't do drugs either, never even tried weed. However, I did drink a lot starting very young (like 12) and started skipping school in 2nd or 3rd grade.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Sept 25, 2014 10:18:10 GMT -5
You don't know them well and/or don't trust them but you are willing to have them sleep with your daughter. You see nothing wrong with that?
I've already explained this. To me, checking with the parent is just a matter of common courtesy. Unless I'm really familiar with the kid and the parents, checking in with a simple call or text to make sure they're cool with the kid staying with us is just being responsible.
My feeling is, I don't think teens should be having sex at all.
I agree with this. For the most part, I think they're too young and the consequences if something goes wrong are too high and not worth it.
However, it's my daughter's decision - and if she decides she's ready then I'd rather she do it safely than behind my back. This does not necessarily equate to sleepovers. That part depends on a number of factors. But I want her to be able to talk about it with me and trust me not to freak.
1. You absolutely have control over your kids bodies, the only question is what age you hand complete responsibility over to them.
See, this sentence makes me really uncomfortable. Yes, right NOW I have control over my kid's body - my kid is (almost) two years old and that's 100% appropriate. It's my JOB to make sure she's properly cleaned, diapered, immunized, etc. even if those things are sometimes gross or painful.
By 16, though, I hope I've done my job well enough that she feels like she has control over her own body in almost all situations. Outside serious medical situations, I want her to be at the point where she can make her own bodily choices by then.
Alternately, they don't have the right to control anyone else's body either.
Yup! Part of the reason I'm so fierce about bodily autonomy is because kids (particularly girls) tend to grow up with certain ideas about how their bodies are "supposed" to be, and plenty grow up thinking that a certain amount of physical affection is expected of them. That's really bad.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 10:21:50 GMT -5
Again, in, they could try drinking at home if they wanted. So far they haven't. I could have drank at home too, but I never did because really, the fun was in getting drunk with my friends. Not sitting around the house with my Mom hitting the Jack Daniels. So, you don't recommend growing up without 'rules', but think its best your kids have sex in cars and get drunk with their friends at parties... ?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 10:25:22 GMT -5
I could have drank at home too, but I never did because really, the fun was in getting drunk with my friends. Not sitting around the house with my Mom hitting the Jack Daniels. So, you don't recommend growing up without 'rules', but think its best your kids have sex in cars and get drunk with their friends at parties... ? Um...I don't think I ever said it was best they have sex in cars or get drunk at parties? Just that I know there's a strong possibility it's going to happen.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 10:28:33 GMT -5
Again, in, they could try drinking at home if they wanted. So far they haven't. I could have drank at home too, but I never did because really, the fun was in getting drunk with my friends. Not sitting around the house with my Mom hitting the Jack Daniels.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 10:31:00 GMT -5
I get this point. But I think that kids young enough to still be in high school aren't ready for that kind of relationship. I am glad my parents discouraged dating, looking back on it. Gave me time to figure out who I was and what I wanted to do. Once they are out of HS then it becomes a different issue I think. I agree. I'd rather have my kids experimenting (safely) in cars than getting into any "deep, meaningful" relationships in high school. Plus, half the fun back then was that it was taboo and you had to sneak around. I don't want to steal that from them.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Sept 25, 2014 10:33:01 GMT -5
I don't have any rules. At least, I can't think of any. We have a big sign of brainstormed family values on our wall that we made a year or two ago. But I honestly can't think of a single "rule" I've made. I guess I don't like the idea of rules because they limit my flexibility as a parent to make situational decisions. This does NOT mean I'm hands off or don't apply standards to our life. I'm VERY structured and my standards for my children are VERY high. But they are mostly about more vague things like character/responsibility/kindness, not how many minutes a day you can have screen time. I have curfews, let me know where you are, chores get done on the weekend, don't overload the clothes washer or use anything in a way that could break it, you break it you replace it, no skipping school...I must have absolutely terrible kids cause they wouldn't do any of that left to their own devices.
ETA - no getting drunk, no illegal drugs...I'm sure I will realize more as we go along.
Perhaps it's semantics. I may say you have to get your homework done before you can play, but I don't consider that a rule as some days we have more free time and I'll let them play before doing homework. Or maybe I can just tell they need an energy release so I'll let them get in some play before work because I know homework time will go more smoothly if they do. IMO a rule is something that is always followed, like a law. I like more flexibility I guess. My kids are younger (8&9) so many of your rules are things I could definitely see being more firm on. I can't imagine a time where I'd be OK with skipping school for example. We just haven't had those situations yet.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 10:36:12 GMT -5
I agree. I'd rather have my kids experimenting (safely) in cars than getting into any "deep, meaningful" relationships in high school. Plus, half the fun back then was that it was taboo and you had to sneak around. I don't want to steal that from them. My sex wasn't safe. I don't remember a single talk about protection from my parents. I had no curfews. My parents knew not where I was or who I was with 90% of the time. I didn't have to call, I didn't have to account for not being in school or getting bad grades...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 10:37:32 GMT -5
I have curfews, let me know where you are, chores get done on the weekend, don't overload the clothes washer or use anything in a way that could break it, you break it you replace it, no skipping school...I must have absolutely terrible kids cause they wouldn't do any of that left to their own devices.
ETA - no getting drunk, no illegal drugs...I'm sure I will realize more as we go along.
Perhaps it's semantics. I may say you have to get your homework done before you can play, but I don't consider that a rule as some days we have more free time and I'll let them play before doing homework. Or maybe I can just tell they need an energy release so I'll let them get in some play before work because I know homework time will go more smoothly if they do. IMO a rule is something that is always followed, like a law. I like more flexibility I guess. My kids are younger (8&9) so many of your rules are things I could definitely see being more firm on. I can't imagine a time where I'd be OK with skipping school for example. We just haven't had those situations yet. I guess it is semantics, cause to me the rule is "you have to get your homework done"
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 10:45:05 GMT -5
I don't have any rules. At least, I can't think of any. We have a big sign of brainstormed family values on our wall that we made a year or two ago. But I honestly can't think of a single "rule" I've made. I guess I don't like the idea of rules because they limit my flexibility as a parent to make situational decisions. This does NOT mean I'm hands off or don't apply standards to our life. I'm VERY structured and my standards for my children are VERY high. But they are mostly about more vague things like character/responsibility/kindness, not how many minutes a day you can have screen time. I have rules for exactly the opposite reason. Life is predictable for the girls and with that information they actually have more control to make decisions themselves. They don't depend on what mood I'm in today.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Sept 25, 2014 10:45:46 GMT -5
My sex wasn't safe. I don't remember a single talk about protection from my parents. I had no curfews. My parents knew not where I was or who I was with 90% of the time. I didn't have to call, I didn't have to account for not being in school or getting bad grades... and you turned out fine.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 10:47:32 GMT -5
My sex wasn't safe. I don't remember a single talk about protection from my parents. I had no curfews. My parents knew not where I was or who I was with 90% of the time. I didn't have to call, I didn't have to account for not being in school or getting bad grades... and you turned out fine. Do we get to have a vote on that?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 10:50:19 GMT -5
Do we get to have a vote on that? No!
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Sept 25, 2014 11:06:10 GMT -5
Rae SK. Huge, huge hugs to you for giving your child the space to be themselves. I can't imagine your path and admire your strength for being willing to take it with your child. Thank you. To say this has been stressful for me is an understatement. But so far, things have been amazingly great. He's attending a new school, can use the gender neutral bathroom there, and has his new male name and gender in the school's system. Therapy is going well, too. We've encountered a couple a$$holes, but I'd say we're at 90% support for the few people we've told so far (we're on a need to know basis at the moment). Our xmas card this year will be a bomb dropper, that's for sure. I think we'll encounter the really tough years (bullying) as we hit middle school. On the positive side, DS has bounced back from his suicide trajectory just AMAZINGLY. He is so much happier, lighter, HAPPIER, healthier, HAPPIER. Every day since he socially transitioned about two months ago has gotten better for his mental health. He's really becoming his true self right before my eyes. It makes me tear up just thinking about it. I am happy for your DS that he is happier and can be himself.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 11:06:56 GMT -5
My kids can skip school if they give me a good reason... Stuff needs to get done eventually if they want certain outcomes, but I like a day off as much as anyone...
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 25, 2014 11:18:04 GMT -5
My parents had some rule about not skipping school I think. I wasn't really paying attention to them by high school. I had a friend write all my "please excuse" notes from my first absence in high school. Even when Mommy Dearest wrote me on, I would throw it away and get one in with the "right" handwriting.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Sept 25, 2014 11:18:09 GMT -5
What rules do other people have? I'm curious now... My kids are significantly younger than yours, but my kids have to clean up at the end of the day. For DS, that means he has to clean up his room every night by himself. For DD, that means she has to help pick up the living room every night. She doesn't get to run off to her room while we are all working. Rules - no food in their rooms (besides bottles), no open drinks in their rooms/living room; have to brush your teeth every night, have to be properly restrained in the vehicle. Have to hold our hands in the parking lot. He hasn't tried this yet, but DS will have to tell us before he runs over to the neighbor's house (you know once, he gets over his fear of cactus and decides to just start walking down the path between our house). No kicking, squashing, stealing toys, etc (although most of those we treat as well, how would you like it). Things like that. They aren't written in stone rules. But they are rules.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 11:25:07 GMT -5
Yes, I agree safety rules can be developmentally appropriate. Those are good examples. Thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 11:26:41 GMT -5
My dad wrote excuses for 'the dentist' whatever if I had something to do, I didn't ask often, so?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 11:29:57 GMT -5
My parents had some rule about not skipping school I think. I wasn't really paying attention to them by high school. I had a friend write all my "please excuse" notes from my first absence in high school. Even when Mommy Dearest wrote me on, I would throw it away and get one in with the "right" handwriting. It's a lot harder now (at least at the school my kids go to). I get a text message saying they're not there within 15 minutes of the start of class. When I was a kid they'd just call home in the evening. Of course, I'm the only one home. I get the call and say I was sick and that's the end of that. I was missing on average one day a week...in GRADE SCHOOL and it was completely under the radar.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Sept 25, 2014 11:32:32 GMT -5
By the way, great discussion everyone. It really does make you think about why you do what you do.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Sept 25, 2014 11:34:15 GMT -5
Not even a little. Your kids are naturally reasonable and responsible, that's their inclination. Agreed. I think it is easy to say your kids are responsible because you allow them to make their own decisions. But I think it would be more accurate to say that you can allow them to make their own decisions because they are responsible. Having one kid that is angel and one that is a terror has absolutely led me to believe all kids are different. And much of how a kid behaves is just due to their nature, not super awesome parenting.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Sept 25, 2014 11:40:21 GMT -5
I think most of actually have a lot of rules. But they are laid out so early and are just the behavioral standard for your family, so you stop even recognizing them as rules.
For example, no punching is likely a rule in most houses. But most wouldn't think of it when asked about rules because their kids don't break this rule, so it doesn't have to be spelled out. Same with don't draw on the walls, don't kick the cat, etc. We only think of them as rules when they are broken.
Although most could probably be broken down to the saying at my kid's school 'keep yourself safe, keep you friends safe, keep your toys safe'
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 11:52:51 GMT -5
By skipping school I mean just not going because you don't feel like it. Not going for a reason is called missing school and that happens. The fact that your kids have to give you a good reason and get your okay on it is a rule oped. Or it is in my books.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Sept 25, 2014 11:58:36 GMT -5
Not even a little. Your kids are naturally reasonable and responsible, that's their inclination. Agreed. I think it is easy to say your kids are responsible because you allow them to make their own decisions. But I think it would be more accurate to say that you can allow them to make their own decisions because they are responsible. Having one kid that is angel and one that is a terror has absolutely led me to believe all kids are different. And much of how a kid behaves is just due to their nature, not super awesome parenting. I agree with this. I tend to think that nature is usually much more at play than nurture. BUT I do think that nurture can help or hinder nature and can't be ignored. When you're dealing with biological kids, then you probably have a pretty good insight into the nature they were handed and base your parenting on what you think helped you the most as a child or how you would have liked to have been parented.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Sept 25, 2014 12:09:46 GMT -5
My parents had some rule about not skipping school I think. I wasn't really paying attention to them by high school. I had a friend write all my "please excuse" notes from my first absence in high school. Even when Mommy Dearest wrote me on, I would throw it away and get one in with the "right" handwriting. It's a lot harder now (at least at the school my kids go to). I get a text message saying they're not there within 15 minutes of the start of class. When I was a kid they'd just call home in the evening. Of course, I'm the only one home. I get the call and say I was sick and that's the end of that. I was missing on average one day a week...in GRADE SCHOOL and it was completely under the radar. Ah the memories. I skipped every Wednesday in the 11th and 12th grade. Only went if had test or exams. Did I want my son doing that NO. I was a good student and made a's and b's and he was a slacker to some degree. I sorta did a workaround on the "skip school" days with him. I would let him miss school for a trip to New Orleans to see the King Tut exhibit and lots of other educational events. But it was two sided since those were things I wanted to see and felt he would learn from them also. Guess that made me a bad mom but he turned out OK
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jeep108
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Post by jeep108 on Sept 25, 2014 12:15:54 GMT -5
I missed 22 days in the first semester of my freshman year before my parents found out I was ditching. I had a few friends that were seniors and we would head to the lake a lot.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Sept 25, 2014 12:23:52 GMT -5
I had perfect attendance in high school. Oh the fun I should have been having instead.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Sept 25, 2014 12:26:57 GMT -5
I skipped school on 9/11 before I knew it was going to be 9/11. Got busted by my mom (who came home from work to watch the news) but she was so upset I don't think it even occurred to her that I should have been at school...
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