Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Sept 23, 2014 16:34:25 GMT -5
I am at work so the video is blocked for me here. However, the rest of your post made me so emotional Formerly SK. Its amazing to hear you talk about it. As parents most of us try to do our best for our kids. But not many of us realize there are parents out there who, like you, have to deal with issues that our society is not so open to. If only such issues were acceptable and openly talked about in the society.....You probably wouldn't have had to go through so much turmoil. Kudos to you and your family for being so AWESOME. You are handling the issue so wonderfully I feel like giving a big bow. <swasat stands up and gives standing ovation to Formerly SK> Aw, thank you!!!!
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Sept 23, 2014 16:42:31 GMT -5
However, the rest of your post made me so emotional Formerly SK. Its amazing to hear you talk about it. Just the post almost made me cry. I opted not to watch the video at work because I didn't want to really start crying. Maybe I don't pay attention because I don't recall knowing about this issue for you son. What signs did you see to know this was an issue? It makes sense that it could come out at a very young age if a child just doesn't feel right, but just curious how.
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Mardi Gras Audrey
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Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on Sept 23, 2014 16:47:13 GMT -5
I think a lot of it is kid dependent Every kid is going to be different and what works for one may not work for another.
My parents let me have a BF stay over in high school. He only stayed twice, I was a senior at that point and he had graduated the year before. His parents let us stay at their house overnight when I was a junior but I never stayed-wasn't comfortable with it. We also shared a solo tent when we would go camping with my family and shared our own hotel room when we went on vacation with my family. We never had sex though. We kissed a lot but never did it all. Sleeping was sleeping. I also had no curfew so I would be running around town all night, hanging out with friends and being silly.
By contrast, my older sibs were not allowed to have anyone stay or stay at a significant other's house, had curfews, and had a lot more rules. They were the ones that had sex in high school, drank too much, and got in trouble. I would always hear rumors and gossip about them and people would frequently assume I was a drunk or easy because my older sibs were.
I didn't get drunk until I was 19 even though all my friends got drunk and high regularly. My parents had pretty much given up by the time they got to me (I am one of the younger sibs) but I wasn't going to disappoint them.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Sept 23, 2014 16:47:15 GMT -5
Name/pronouns/clothes/etc are all we need to do.
Just curious since you seem open to questions (of course, you don't have to answer if I'm being overly nosy) - did you do a legal name change? If so, what was required for that? Did a doctor need to sign off on a legal document of some kind? Was it hard to get used to calling him by a new name? Also, how is your other child responding to all this? I'll definitely watch that video when I get home. We haven't changed it legally yet. The principal changed it in the district computers, so that's taken care of. I can/have easily changed it at places like the rec center, etc. We're in the process of working with HR to change his medical insurance, but it's the beginning phases so I'm not sure if/what roadblocks we'll encounter there. DH's work is supportive. Social Security should be pretty easy (through the courthouse). The biggie will be the birth certificate (name and gender). It can be done, but I hear there are some hoops. There is a transgendered youth advocacy/support organization in my city and they help with all this. It's amazing how some people have such difficulties while others seem to get smooth sailing (depending schools/insurance). We've been really lucky so far.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 23, 2014 16:49:16 GMT -5
There seems to be the assumption that a sleepover, one that includes the sharing of a bed, equals sexual intercourse. I have slept in a bed with a woman and not had sexual intercourse. "Your boyfriend/girlfriend may stay the night. You can even share a bed. But I ask that you respect my wishes that you not have sexual intercourse in my house" is a powerful lesson to tell a young person that you respect their ability to control their own sexual urges.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Sept 23, 2014 16:51:16 GMT -5
The principal changed it in the district computers, so that's taken care of. That is awesome! My neighbor ran into a bunch of trouble with the school when they legally changed her daughter's name. They told her it could take weeks & were making the girl still write her old name on papers. The mom finally went in and threw a fit & they said they were allow her to write her new name on papers, but it would still take weeks to update their system.
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Jaguar
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Post by Jaguar on Sept 23, 2014 16:56:35 GMT -5
Oh my thanks for posting Rylands video.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 23, 2014 17:00:00 GMT -5
Yeah, I didn't understand the advice not to tell the other parent about it. If your kid really wanted to have sex with another teenager, why wouldn't you make sure it was okay with their parents? Why would you keep that from them?
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Sept 23, 2014 17:02:57 GMT -5
However, the rest of your post made me so emotional Formerly SK. Its amazing to hear you talk about it. Just the post almost made me cry. I opted not to watch the video at work because I didn't want to really start crying. Maybe I don't pay attention because I don't recall knowing about this issue for you son. What signs did you see to know this was an issue? It makes sense that it could come out at a very young age if a child just doesn't feel right, but just curious how. I'd say there were signs for about 18 months. The obvious things like hating all activities girly, then wearing only boys formalwear to school (in 1st/2nd grades). Wanted to get his hair cut off for about 9 months. The anger/self-loathing occurred gradually. There was also a huge depression - he just lost interest in everything and only wanted to watch TV. He never said he was a boy - I don't think he could articulate what was going on. He was just very ashamed and unhappy with himself and it manifested in extreme anger towards everyone. Honestly it never occurred to me to think transgender until the pediatrician mentioned it. Then it was like all the behaviors made sense. Now that I've spoken with so many different medical professionals, I'm wondering how I could have been so blind. DS is still VERY shy/embarrassed. He doesn't want to talk about what it happening at all. He just wishes he could go about his life as a boy with no one talking it. He passionately hates his female name and is horrified when someone uses it in front of him. ODS (9yo) has autism and has struggled with the transition. Mostly he doesn't want people to know because then he'll (or his brother) will get bullied. Fear of bullying was his immediate reaction at the news and it's been his chief concern. He quickly accepted that his little sister is actually his little brother, though. If anything, they seem to have gotten even closer now than they were before. They are really great with each other.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Sept 23, 2014 17:05:39 GMT -5
He quickly accepted that his little sister is actually his little brother, though. If anything, they seem to have gotten even closer now than they were before. They are really great with each other. I seriously wish I could have your family over for dinner. You all sound awesome.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 23, 2014 17:06:19 GMT -5
Totally off topic, but in college I had a roommate in the dorms that slept in his girlfriends room every single night. I have no idea how either of them slept together in a narrow single bed.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Sept 23, 2014 17:08:30 GMT -5
Cuddlez
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quince
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Post by quince on Sept 23, 2014 17:11:02 GMT -5
I've slept with my husband in a twin sized bed. You just have to really, really like the other person.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Sept 23, 2014 17:11:37 GMT -5
Thats just so....AWESOME!! Just out of curiosity, I had no idea that young kids could transition?!? You don't have to answer if you don't want to. Its just that in my personal experience I have never seen such a young kid transition gender. I know lots of people who understood their leanings and came out later life, like in their 20s. A lot of them had no idea when they were in elementary school. It actually isn't that young, although when my ped first mentioned it as a possibility I thought he was insane because my kid barely knows how babies are made. But actually, people figure out their gender really early - like ages 3-7. My DS's case is very stereotypical according to the various medical experts we've worked with. His self-hatred and embarrassment over having the wrong body is perhaps stronger in him, or perhaps he's more expressive than other kids, so we are publicly dealing with this earlier than maybe most families. I imagine so many parents sweep signs under the rug, so it appears as though kids realize it later when in fact it happens so much earlier. Since DS hasn't even hit puberty yet, there isn't any medical transition at this point. Name/pronouns/clothes/etc are all we need to do. Switch him from girls soccer to boys soccer, that sort of thing. When it looks like puberty will start to kick in, we'll give him hormones to delay it (I was initially freaked about this but I guess it's common to delay puberty in kids for all sorts of reasons and there aren't any negative side effects). When DS hits about 15 and if he is still fully committed to being male, we'll start him on testosterone. The really nice thing about this is that he won't have to overcome looking female since he'll never go through female puberty. And it's really relieving as a parent that none of the things we're doing now to support him are permanent - DS has the luxury of time (until he starts male puberty) to really figure himself out. If DS chooses to get surgery, that would be after age 18. Thank you everyone for being supportive (and for those who aren't, for being silent). The stress is insane and the worry....OMG. I can't even articulate the worries they are so overwhelming. I just try to take it day by day. Here's a wonderful video if you have time. It'll make you cry. It made such an impact on DS he named himself after the child in the video. BSB SK too.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 23, 2014 17:11:44 GMT -5
Hell no. Some may disagree with me but I kinda equate this to allowing your kids (and friends) to drink at home. It's an adult activity, wait until you're an adult to get active. This is how I feel too.
I could be fine knowing my kid is active, but there's a difference between knowing they're active and leading them to it.
Same goes for drinking, I'd never purchase alcohol for kids or allow them to drink it in my home.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2014 17:18:35 GMT -5
I love all these "never"s from those of you with babies or toddlers or very small children LOL. To be honest I never expected us to be as easy-going as we are. But, we have room, none of our kids have a permanent home elsewhere. We're just glad to see them. We haven't found it difficult to let our kids have sleepovers growing up, it's frankly pretty common here, because our kids have always gone to HS schools that were NOT in our immediate neighborhood. For the "big boys", the rule was, your girlfriend is welcome to sleep over, but not a one-night stand, because I felt they still needed to set an example for their younger siblings. Also, as somebody else pointed out, I don't want to wake up and meet a stranger over coffee LOL. There were several reasons that made me be fine with it even though years earlier, I thought I wouldn't be. - Two of my sons had / have EXTREMELY close friendships with girls. They weren't / aren't girlfriends, they were / are friends. More like sisters. - Only ONE of my four kids went to our local HS. So, their friends weren't necessarily local, which means their friends slept at my house sometimes, and my kids slept in their houses sometimes. - DS1 and his BFF (a girl) rode horses competitively through MS and HS. Her mom had just had a new baby when they met, the riding club was around the corner from us. So his friend slept here most weekends. - DD started going out with her (former) BF when they were 16. It was a slippery slope. "It's NYE, can F sleep over so he doesn't have to walk home in the middle of the night? He'll sleep in the guest room?" OK. Then it was Valentine's Day. Six months later (right before their 17th birthdays) they were sleeping together in DD's room. They stayed together for 4.5 years. We still miss him terribly. (DD broke up with him last year when she was in CA). - DS3 has two best friends, both girls. If they've had co-ed sleepovers since they were little, at what point do you decide they can't anymore? DH and I have wondered about that (including with both other sets of parents) and we decided, we can't. So the sleepovers continue. I had EXTREMELY strict Eastern European parents. Yet I managed to do PLENTY of Shite they would have disapproved of. So to get around their strict rules, I either did it during the day, or I lied about where I was going at night. That waseasier before cell phones, but still, LOL. Personally, DH and I decided we'd rather have an open and honest relationship with our kids, and give them a certain degree of liberty. We believe that if kids don't get a certain amount of liberty, they'll just take it. I'd rather my kids be safe at home. So, never say never LOL.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Sept 23, 2014 17:22:58 GMT -5
Yeah, I didn't understand the advice not to tell the other parent about it. If your kid really wanted to have sex with another teenager, why wouldn't you make sure it was okay with their parents? Why would you keep that from them? Because you are the cool parent & don't want to snitch & lose your cool status
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Sept 23, 2014 17:24:44 GMT -5
Just the post almost made me cry. I opted not to watch the video at work because I didn't want to really start crying. Maybe I don't pay attention because I don't recall knowing about this issue for you son. What signs did you see to know this was an issue? It makes sense that it could come out at a very young age if a child just doesn't feel right, but just curious how. I'd say there were signs for about 18 months. The obvious things like hating all activities girly, then wearing only boys formalwear to school (in 1st/2nd grades). Wanted to get his hair cut off for about 9 months. The anger/self-loathing occurred gradually. There was also a huge depression - he just lost interest in everything and only wanted to watch TV. He never said he was a boy - I don't think he could articulate what was going on. He was just very ashamed and unhappy with himself and it manifested in extreme anger towards everyone. Honestly it never occurred to me to think transgender until the pediatrician mentioned it. Then it was like all the behaviors made sense. Now that I've spoken with so many different medical professionals, I'm wondering how I could have been so blind. DS is still VERY shy/embarrassed. He doesn't want to talk about what it happening at all. He just wishes he could go about his life as a boy with no one talking it. He passionately hates his female name and is horrified when someone uses it in front of him. ODS (9yo) has autism and has struggled with the transition. Mostly he doesn't want people to know because then he'll (or his brother) will get bullied. Fear of bullying was his immediate reaction at the news and it's been his chief concern. He quickly accepted that his little sister is actually his little brother, though. If anything, they seem to have gotten even closer now than they were before. They are really great with each other. I'm so glad he is doing better now. I think we would all like to believe we would be awesome parents & be there for our kids no matter what, but most of us don't actually have face issues this difficult. I think you are amazing!
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quince
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Post by quince on Sept 23, 2014 17:56:34 GMT -5
Yeah, I didn't understand the advice not to tell the other parent about it. If your kid really wanted to have sex with another teenager, why wouldn't you make sure it was okay with their parents? Why would you keep that from them? Because you are the cool parent & don't want to snitch & lose your cool status Maybe because you're a parent who respects the semi-autonomy of people who aren't 10 but aren't 18? IDGAF if my kid is having sex, and I don't see why I would tell anyone's parents if they are, any more than I would tell that they were driving with a permit or something along those lines. (OK, he's 1 now, and I DO care at this point.) If the kid is 15-18, I wouldn't say a damned thing, unless I was aware of a predatory partner or extra risky behavior. If the kid is younger, I would use my judgement based on my knowledge of the kid/my kid/maturity levels/if their parents are BSC. Maybe I will think differently when I have a teen, but I don't really think sex is a big deal as long as safer sex is practiced. Risky, but so is driving, and all manner of teens do that with the blessing of their parents and possibly gas money. Then again, neither my husband nor I had sex until college and beyond (or drove, for that matter....), so maybe we will be lucky and our kids will follow in our footsteps and it won't be an issue.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2014 17:59:29 GMT -5
I'm sorry, I know I posted a REALLY long post, and here's another one. Hopefully shorter this time LOL.
I've always told my kids (both my boys and my girl) about birth control. I took DD to my gynecologist when she was 15, which is also typical here. I told both my DD and the gynecologist that now that they've met, DD could make her own appt privately one day, and that she (the doctor) could send me the bill.
My hope for ALL my kids, boys and girl, was that they would have their first experience with somebody they love, somebody who means or meant a great deal to them.
Given that people can have sex in a bed, a house, a toilet, a secluded area, a plane, or a car, frankly I think the co-ed sleepover business really is "much ado about nothing". To me, personally, that's not what's important. But, I do understand that I'm nearly 55, my kids are 16-28, so I'm sure I have a different perspective on this issue than those of you with little kids.
I had the STRICTEST PARENTS ON EARTH. All that did was make me rebel, and lie about my love life, and create an abyss between me, the American girl, and my Eastern European parents. And vow that I would do EVERYTHING in my power to make sure me and my kids' relationships didn't go the same way. (I remained a stellar student.)
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Sept 23, 2014 18:04:05 GMT -5
I've slept with my husband in a twin sized bed. You just have to really, really like the other person. Yeah. DH and I slept in a full sized bed. Once. Never again. Lol! We have a king and its a real struggle to sleep in a queen. Sent from my Nexus 7 using proboards
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2014 18:47:21 GMT -5
A Queen is all that fits comfortably in our Master BD. DH and I are both OK with that. I'm thinking of upgrading the mattress to a very good futon but we don't want a bigger bed. When the kids were little, often there were five or six of us in that Queen bed on weekend mornings. Happy memories.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Sept 23, 2014 18:59:08 GMT -5
Have I mention I hate my mother? I just told her about DS this afternoon. Had to listen to her blather on about how being trans is easy nowadays, a bunch of hippy crap about love forces, and that she wishes her daughters (ie ME) were more loving/intelligent/articulate like Rachel Maddow. This from a woman who has been high for 40 years, is 150lbs overweight, has never had a job and has no money at age 67. Oh yeah, and three of her four children are addicts who can't hold down jobs. But yeah, I'm supposed to listen to her motherly wisdom about how I should handle my son. OK...vent over.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2014 19:11:07 GMT -5
I'm sorry SK
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2014 19:42:16 GMT -5
Doing research... While permitting a teenage couple to spend the night together may seem like extreme parental laxity to parents in the United States, Dutch parents continue to exert a great deal of control over the terms of the sleepover. Most parents interviewed said they would permit a sleepover only when they saw that adolescents felt ready, were using contraceptives, and related in healthy and loving ways. By normalizing adolescent sexuality within distinct parameters, Dutch parents are able to maintain a connection with their adolescent children as they develop their sexual identities. (Several Dutch parents spontaneously mentioned that their child might prefer a same-sex partner.) Thus, Dutch parents can encourage their adolescent children to stay true to their own sense of readiness, can urge caution and contraceptive use, and are able to monitor the nature of their children’s romantic relationships. In fact, one reason that the Dutch parents cite for permitting the sleepover is a desire to stay connected to their children and prevent secrets which could interfere with open communication. By contrast, the dramatization of adolescent sexuality in American society instills fear of teenage sexuality among parents and teenagers, but gives them few tools to create an empowered sexual development. ecommons.library.cornell.edu/bitstream/1813/19323/2/NewVision_Nov09.pdf
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Sept 23, 2014 21:20:49 GMT -5
Have I mention I hate my mother? I just told her about DS this afternoon. Had to listen to her blather on about how being trans is easy nowadays, a bunch of hippy crap about love forces, and that she wishes her daughters (ie ME) were more loving/intelligent/articulate like Rachel Maddow. This from a woman who has been high for 40 years, is 150lbs overweight, has never had a job and has no money at age 67. Oh yeah, and three of her four children are addicts who can't hold down jobs. But yeah, I'm supposed to listen to her motherly wisdom about how I should handle my son. OK...vent over. You should tell your mother that YOU are transitioning to male as well. The reaction would be priceless.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Sept 23, 2014 22:56:20 GMT -5
Sorry about the rant - I have no respect for my mom and normally I easily laugh off her conversations. I guess this ordeal has made me thin skinned. And it's not like I have anything against Rachel Maddow - I don't watch TV so I barely know of her. It's just frustrating that my mom gives me so much grief that I went to college and work and pay taxes (OK...DH does ) and we vote...you know I'm just a stupid sheep following the masses etc. So she assumed that I'd reject my son and judge him for being transgendered and it was up to HER in all her wisdom and superiority to enlighten me. The woman hasn't seen or spoken to DS in 5 years, but apparently she knows him better than I do. And the fact that she has achieved nothing in her life and is about the weakest person I know (she tolerated both physical and sexual abuse of her children rather than leave her DH) just makes me want to slap her when she starts belittling me. But all is better now. DH made me a margarita. The kids completed their homework and are quietly in bed reading. I just ordered Hawking's "A Brief History in Time" for my 4th grader and I'm so excited to read it with him! Our new kitten is *finally* litter box trained. Life is good.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Sept 23, 2014 22:58:26 GMT -5
Hugs SK. I'd be pissed too.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Sept 23, 2014 23:03:59 GMT -5
Because you are the cool parent & don't want to snitch & lose your cool status Maybe because you're a parent who respects the semi-autonomy of people who aren't 10 but aren't 18? IDGAF if my kid is having sex, and I don't see why I would tell anyone's parents if they are, any more than I would tell that they were driving with a permit or something along those lines. (OK, he's 1 now, and I DO care at this point.) I would expect that if you intend to give my kid permission to have sex in your house, you would have the decency to discuss it with me. Much like I would think you should discuss it with me if you are letting my kid drink, smoke, do drugs in your house. It isn't the fact that you know they are having sex, it is the fact you are giving them permission. Just because you don't find it to be a big deal doesn't mean the other parent won't as well. I find sex to be a very big deal. I know a 16 year old girl can feel let down and used if it doesn't go well or if the guy doesn't act the way she had hoped after. It is easy to say let them make their own decisions and in the end they will. But I don't intend to encourage behavior that they aren't emotionally prepared for.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 23, 2014 23:20:20 GMT -5
... I find sex to be a very big deal. I know a 16 year old girl can feel let down and used if it doesn't go well or if the guy doesn't act the way she had hoped after. It is easy to say let them make their own decisions and in the end they will. But I don't intend to encourage behavior that they aren't emotionally prepared for. How does a 60 year old widow (or widower for that matter) feel if they have sex and it doesn't go well or if the other person doesn't act the way she\he had hoped after? Don't they feel let down and used? So what is the feeling that an emotionally prepared person feels in that situation?
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