Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Sept 24, 2014 0:12:47 GMT -5
... I find sex to be a very big deal. I know a 16 year old girl can feel let down and used if it doesn't go well or if the guy doesn't act the way she had hoped after. It is easy to say let them make their own decisions and in the end they will. But I don't intend to encourage behavior that they aren't emotionally prepared for. How does a 60 year old widow (or widower for that matter) feel if they have sex and it doesn't go well or if the other person doesn't act the way she\he had hoped after? Don't they feel let down and used? So what is the feeling that an emotionally prepared person feels in that situation? Seriously? You don't understand how someone older might be better equip to understand love and relationships and the part that sex plays in all of that? I know I've matured enormously as I've aged and make much better decisions and am better able to cope with my emotions. I have more self-esteem and better understand myself and others. Maybe some stop maturing at 16, so for them there is no difference.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 24, 2014 0:31:02 GMT -5
How does a 60 year old widow (or widower for that matter) feel if they have sex and it doesn't go well or if the other person doesn't act the way she\he had hoped after? Don't they feel let down and used? So what is the feeling that an emotionally prepared person feels in that situation? Seriously? You don't understand how someone older might be better equip to understand love and relationships and the part that sex plays in all of that? I know I've matured enormously as I've aged and make much better decisions and am better able to cope with my emotions. I have more self-esteem and better understand myself and others. Maybe some stop maturing at 16, so for them there is no difference. I do understand. Understanding is gained by experience and not by simply time on the planet.
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quince
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Post by quince on Sept 24, 2014 1:11:43 GMT -5
Maybe because you're a parent who respects the semi-autonomy of people who aren't 10 but aren't 18? IDGAF if my kid is having sex, and I don't see why I would tell anyone's parents if they are, any more than I would tell that they were driving with a permit or something along those lines. (OK, he's 1 now, and I DO care at this point.) I would expect that if you intend to give my kid permission to have sex in your house, you would have the decency to discuss it with me. Much like I would think you should discuss it with me if you are letting my kid drink, smoke, do drugs in your house. It isn't the fact that you know they are having sex, it is the fact you are giving them permission. Just because you don't find it to be a big deal doesn't mean the other parent won't as well. I find sex to be a very big deal. I know a 16 year old girl can feel let down and used if it doesn't go well or if the guy doesn't act the way she had hoped after. It is easy to say let them make their own decisions and in the end they will. But I don't intend to encourage behavior that they aren't emotionally prepared for. Some people find keeping Kosher or a vegan diet to be a very big deal. If a 16 year old comes to dinner with my family and wants a serving of bacon alfredo I am not going to call his/her parents to sound out how they feel about it. For young kids, I do expect discussions about food to come up and be adhered to when you're having someone else's kids over. If a parent comes out and tells me that their kid isn't allowed to stay over, or can't have meat, then yes, the kid will have to get their bacon cheeseburger and blowjob in the back of a car. I won't lie to another parent or go against limits the parent has set, but I'm not going to do any work to find out what limits those parents have set for their teenage children.
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skubikky
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Post by skubikky on Sept 24, 2014 6:21:20 GMT -5
DH and I have values that didn't include supporting our kids engaging in sex during their teenage years. Be it based on our faith or just plain old point of view, that's it. It was up to us to raise our kids using our best judgement. It wasn't a matter of exerting power over them, it is a matter of consistent values and boundaries. What you decide to do with your kids is your business. Personally, I couldn't care less. And I certainly am not going to attempt to examine your logic on that. It doesn't concern me.
We were very clear on how we approached raising on kids. Are they strong, self-actuated and capable adults? Yup....very much so. Two very strong willed and accomplished adults who will today tell you that they appreciated how they were raised. They always had clear and consistent direction from us. We didn't waver or back down from our responsibilities to them.
They have since said that it made them feel safe and secure with the boundaries that we provided even though they didn't always like it. As they grew, we adjusted the need for those boundaries until...of course, they served no purpose any longer as they are now adults and must make their own decisions. Their decisions DON'T need to meet my approval any longer.
Our decisions created the desired result for OUR kids. You can quote all you want in support of your point of view and that's fine. Again, it doesn't change now nor would it have changed then how we went about raising our kids. They were OURS to bring up, no one else's.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 7:15:59 GMT -5
Skubbiky, is that addressed to me?
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Sept 24, 2014 7:20:59 GMT -5
There seems to be the assumption that a sleepover, one that includes the sharing of a bed, equals sexual intercourse. I have slept in a bed with a woman and not had sexual intercourse. "Your boyfriend/girlfriend may stay the night. You can even share a bed. But I ask that you respect my wishes that you not have sexual intercourse in my house" is a powerful lesson to tell a young person that you respect their ability to control their own sexual urges. That's like giving a Tea Partier a fully automatic AK-47 and telling them not to shoot it. They may not, but chances are they are testing that bad boy out.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Sept 24, 2014 7:45:22 GMT -5
Seriously? You don't understand how someone older might be better equip to understand love and relationships and the part that sex plays in all of that? I know I've matured enormously as I've aged and make much better decisions and am better able to cope with my emotions. I have more self-esteem and better understand myself and others. Maybe some stop maturing at 16, so for them there is no difference. I do understand. Understanding is gained by experience and not by simply time on the planet. Yes, but I feel kids should have a better understanding of relationships and love before taking the next step to sex. They will gain that through having boyfriends or girlfriends and dating. They can get a lot of experience and maturity without jumping right to sex, which will them leave them better emotionally prepared for everything that comes along with sex.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Sept 24, 2014 7:49:08 GMT -5
I would expect that if you intend to give my kid permission to have sex in your house, you would have the decency to discuss it with me. Much like I would think you should discuss it with me if you are letting my kid drink, smoke, do drugs in your house. It isn't the fact that you know they are having sex, it is the fact you are giving them permission. Just because you don't find it to be a big deal doesn't mean the other parent won't as well. I find sex to be a very big deal. I know a 16 year old girl can feel let down and used if it doesn't go well or if the guy doesn't act the way she had hoped after. It is easy to say let them make their own decisions and in the end they will. But I don't intend to encourage behavior that they aren't emotionally prepared for. Some people find keeping Kosher or a vegan diet to be a very big deal. I'm guessing that number is pretty small compared to those that think sex is a big deal. So odds are good no one cares if you feed a kid bacon. But they are pretty good you will piss off some parents if you gave their daughter permission to lose her virginity in your house.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Sept 24, 2014 7:54:06 GMT -5
Some people find keeping Kosher or a vegan diet to be a very big deal. I'm guessing that number is pretty small compared to those that think sex is a big deal. So odds are good no one cares if you feed a kid bacon. But they are pretty good you will piss off some parents if you gave their daughter permission to lose her virginity in your house. People who think kids are independent and adult enough to be having sex in their house probably think they are independent and adult enough to not tell the other kids mommy about it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 7:56:40 GMT -5
I'd assume coed sleepovers occur with full knowledge of all parents. I wouldn't condone lying.
That said, it's going to happen somewhere... Lots of people indicated it happened in the house but not night, just at different times. Or in the car. (Or according to things i've read in a movie theater, bathroom... ) Because ultimately, no other person has the right to give permission than the daughter...
So I'm still rather confused on the subject.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 7:58:16 GMT -5
I'm guessing the kids are keeping sex secret anyway? Regardless of where it is happening?
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Sept 24, 2014 8:00:08 GMT -5
So I'm still rather confused on the subject. Insert tab A into slot B.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Sept 24, 2014 8:20:20 GMT -5
Some people find keeping Kosher or a vegan diet to be a very big deal. I'm guessing that number is pretty small compared to those that think sex is a big deal. So odds are good no one cares if you feed a kid bacon. But they are pretty good you will piss off some parents if you gave their daughter permission to lose her virginity in your house. Are you going to check in with the parent of every child who spends the night at your house to make sure the parent has given them permission to do so? I spent the night at friends houses who's parents had more lenient curfews all the time. I was the one who was lying to my parents about what I was doing. I wouldn't have said it was the other parents fault if I got caught as I knew that their rules didn't apply to me.
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milee
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Post by milee on Sept 24, 2014 8:50:23 GMT -5
So I'm still rather confused on the subject. Insert tab A into slot B. I remember the first time someone explained the process to me in any detail. I was 10 and remember thinking how stupid that person was - that there was no way this was how it was supposed to work. It all sounded so incredibly ridiculous...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 9:01:39 GMT -5
Insert tab A into slot B. I remember the first time someone explained the process to me in any detail. I was 10 and remember thinking how stupid that person was - that there was no way this was how it was supposed to work. It all sounded so incredibly ridiculous... One advantage of having kids on a farm. Parents don't need to do a lot of explaining of the process. By age 5, I'd seen enough cattle, horses, sheep and pigs breeding to be able guess how it worked in people.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 9:02:49 GMT -5
I tried to explain my wish to a few mothers once that there might be something 'nice and good' rather than porn to which to direct kids so they might learn without all the other crap... Since there are a lot of 'what you talking about? Are you crazy?' aspects to what sex actually is...and a 'nice' visual might be appropriate.
Needless to say I didn't get my ideas across that well there either and I dropped it pretty quickly.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Sept 24, 2014 9:06:21 GMT -5
I tried to explain my wish to a few mothers once that there might be something 'nice and good' rather than porn to which to direct kids so they might learn without all the other crap... Since there are a lot of 'what you talking about? Are you crazy?' aspects to what sex actually is...and a 'nice' visual might be appropriate. Needless to say I didn't get my ideas across the well there either and I dropped it pretty quickly. If nothing like that exists, maybe there is a market for one. Could be a business venture for you. Tween not porn how to videos.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 9:06:22 GMT -5
I'm guessing that number is pretty small compared to those that think sex is a big deal. So odds are good no one cares if you feed a kid bacon. But they are pretty good you will piss off some parents if you gave their daughter permission to lose her virginity in your house. Are you going to check in with the parent of every child who spends the night at your house to make sure the parent has given them permission to do so? I spent the night at friends houses who's parents had more lenient curfews all the time. I was the one who was lying to my parents about what I was doing. I wouldn't have said it was the other parents fault if I got caught as I knew that their rules didn't apply to me. I can remember B stepmother calling parents of one of the rare sleepovers I went to to tell them my bedtime and that I was not to stay up all night with the other girls at the slumber party.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 9:09:33 GMT -5
I tried to explain my wish to a few mothers once that there might be something 'nice and good' rather than porn to which to direct kids so they might learn without all the other crap... Since there are a lot of 'what you talking about? Are you crazy?' aspects to what sex actually is...and a 'nice' visual might be appropriate. Needless to say I didn't get my ideas across the well there either and I dropped it pretty quickly. If nothing like that exists, maybe there is a market for one. Could be a business venture for you. Tween not porn how to videos. I'm a pragmatist. Again. Kids are going to look at dirty magazines and watch porn. How does ignoring the fact and pretending it doesn't happen benefit the long term goal?
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Sept 24, 2014 9:10:50 GMT -5
If nothing like that exists, maybe there is a market for one. Could be a business venture for you. Tween not porn how to videos. I'm a pragmatist. Again. Kids are going to look at dirty magazines and watch porn. How does ignoring the fact and pretending it doesn't happen benefit the long term goal? I was only half joking in my response. If you are looking for a product that doesn't exist maybe others are too. Or maybe Sum Dum Gai wants to start business #3.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 9:17:31 GMT -5
I tried to explain my wish to a few mothers once that there might be something 'nice and good' rather than porn to which to direct kids so they might learn without all the other crap... Since there are a lot of 'what you talking about? Are you crazy?' aspects to what sex actually is...and a 'nice' visual might be appropriate. Needless to say I didn't get my ideas across that well there either and I dropped it pretty quickly. Dr. Ruth has a lot of stuff that clearly shows and explains the mechanics of sex. She explains EVERYTHING from the art of giving a bj to how to use a condom properly in a non judgemental fashion and the accent gives you something to laugh at. You can find her on Youtube and she has books out.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Sept 24, 2014 9:18:14 GMT -5
I tried to explain my wish to a few mothers once that there might be something 'nice and good' rather than porn to which to direct kids so they might learn without all the other crap... Since there are a lot of 'what you talking about? Are you crazy?' aspects to what sex actually is...and a 'nice' visual might be appropriate. Needless to say I didn't get my ideas across that well there either and I dropped it pretty quickly. Dr. Ruth has a lot of stuff that clearly shows and explains the mechanics of sex. She explains EVERYTHING from the art of giving a bj to how to use a condom properly in a non judgemental fashion and the accent gives you something to laugh at. You can find her on Youtube and she has books out. That crazy canadian lady had a show like that too. I used to love that show.
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reader79
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Post by reader79 on Sept 24, 2014 9:52:38 GMT -5
My sister just moved out at 37 because her and my dad had a 'conversation' about how her boyfriend was not allowed to stay over. I don't know what she thought had changed, that's been his rule since day one. Our male friends weren't allowed in our bedrooms at all in high school. She was back home for about a year after she finished her Masters. The only males who have spent the night were my other sisters' husbands, who also lived here for a while.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Sept 24, 2014 10:49:33 GMT -5
I was only half joking in my response. If you are looking for a product that doesn't exist maybe others are too. Or maybe Sum Dum Gai wants to start business #3. Not making teenage how to soft porn. ROFL
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Sept 24, 2014 10:51:29 GMT -5
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Sept 24, 2014 11:16:32 GMT -5
How does a 60 year old widow (or widower for that matter) feel if they have sex and it doesn't go well or if the other person doesn't act the way she\he had hoped after? Don't they feel let down and used? So what is the feeling that an emotionally prepared person feels in that situation? Angel! and I haven't agreed on much lately but I'm 100% with her on this one. If a person's emotional response to sex is the same at 60 as it was when they were 16, that person is most likely seriously emotionally delayed. There's a huge enough difference in the actual brain structure of 16 year olds versus fully grown adults alone to make that a ridiculous statement. You realize that teenagers' brains don't fully develop until their mid-20s, right? There's a huge difference between a 16 year old having sex versus a 21 year old having sex versus a 40 year old having sex. About asking permission - I would, and I'd respect the other parents' decision if they said no. It might be okay with me, but if it's not okay with them, the kids will have to take their shenanigans elsewhere. About setting limits - Just because I'd "let" my kid have sex (again it is NOT my call, I'm not "letting" them do anything - it is THEIR BODY) does not mean that I don't set limits/boundaries or that they don't feel safe/loved. It doesn't mean that I'm trying to be her "buddy." The false equivalence of these ideas is seriously annoying.
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drivingaround
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Post by drivingaround on Sept 24, 2014 11:16:59 GMT -5
I too want to reiterate it is amazing, based on your posts, how willing you are to work with your child to find a life solution that is oriented to his. As someone who has struggled with depression and wanting to die since about the age of 7 I can only say I wish my parents had been this interested in my emotional well-being. While your DS is still young and possibly unable to articulate what's going on I have no doubt he recognizes your level of care and will look back on this time. Regardless of what his end state is, whether he chooses to fully transition to male or not, this is a time in his life when as a parent you showed unwavering love and support. I'm curious, did you find a child therapist specialized in gender identity or did you find a general therapist who works more on self-esteem and other issues?
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Sept 24, 2014 11:19:48 GMT -5
By the way, I casually asked DH last night if he would let Babybird's boyfriends sleep over and his response was a resounding "Hell no!" which surprised me since he's always been of the opinion that she's "probably" going to have sex in high school. I asked him why and he said it was for the boy's safety because he might kill him if he spent the night So obviously I asked if he would be okay with girlfriends staying over, should things go that way - and he said "Nope but if she's gay she can have as many boyfriends stay over as she wants."
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Sept 24, 2014 11:25:56 GMT -5
By the way, I casually asked DH last night if he would let Babybird's boyfriends sleep over and his response was a resounding "Hell no!" which surprised me since he's always been of the opinion that she's "probably" going to have sex in high school. I asked him why and he said it was for the boy's safety because he might kill him if he spent the night So obviously I asked if he would be okay with girlfriends staying over, should things go that way - and he said "Nope but if she's gay she can have as many boyfriends stay over as she wants." I asked DH that last night. He didn't respond verbally, but the look on his face was priceless. Re: same-sex relationships -- SIL came out at 16, which IMO was very brave, but also foolish, as her same-sex sleepovers were quickly stopped.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 24, 2014 11:31:23 GMT -5
... There's a huge enough difference in the actual brain structure of 16 year olds versus fully grown adults alone to make that a ridiculous statement. You realize that teenagers' brains don't fully develop until their mid-20s, right? There's a huge difference between a 16 year old having sex versus a 21 year old having sex versus a 40 year old having sex. ... Yes brain structure changes and people in their forties studying those changes conclude that forty year old brains are more "developed". Forty year olds looking at how the young brain deals with situations determines that the way their forty year old brains deals with a similar situation is "better". Enjoy.
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