justme
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Post by justme on Aug 14, 2014 14:54:35 GMT -5
Wonder what CPS would do if a kid contacted them and said my parents only beat the hell out of me when I'm out of the country? Tell the kid sorry call them in that country?
Probably a sure fire way to make none of your kids ever want to visit family in that country though. Every time you mention it they'll think they're getting a beat down.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Aug 14, 2014 14:55:17 GMT -5
Off course it is easy for you to judge because you had a good "teen". I know the self destructive teens, I am related to them, they are the ones that fucked up so bad in their late teens ad early 20's (someone's later because they think the world owe them) that they will spend the rest of their lives paying for it. My step brother prime example: private school, great middle class life then the teens hit. He wanted to be in the hood (a kid that never knew the hood), and selling pot on the corner. First arrest before he was 16, kicked out of private school then kicked of public school. Now 26, no job, body covered of tattoos, arrest records, cannot secure a good job to support his two kids talking about how he regret his decisions. I love him but he has thrown away every opportunity my mom and step dad gave him. So yes, before my son or daughter become another statistic, another number on a sheet I will buy the ticket to Haiti to rehabilitate them. Judge away. Because you are going to judge anyway if I don't do nothing and they end up in jail, kids by 16 and another high school drop out on the government dole. Sorry, tiger mom has nothing on me and I will be damned if my kid(s) became just another statistic. But again that will not be a problem if our kids are like my wife and I. But I am ready and willing to make the hard decisions if we end up with a kid like a couple of my cousins, I will not let my teen or kid in their 20's throw away their future because they are too stupid to know WTF they are doing. I think the problems with these kids started way before they were teens. Either parents ignore the problems or really don't see the signs until the kid is large enough to be totally out of control. So, I think beating the crap out of a 13 year old here or in Haiti is not going to do much & is bad parenting. I think realizing at 8 that the kid needs serious help before they ever get that bad is much better. And if that didn't work or wasn't an option, my kids would be going to some sort of bootcamp/military school program to get straightened out. FWIW, I am assuming DD's problems right now are because she is 3 and it has been a tough year for her. If she is still acting this poorly in a year from now, we will be going to counseling & whatever is necessary because at a certain point there is a bigger problem than toddler tantrums. Beating the "crap" is a word, we don't believe in corporal punishment unless extremely necessary. But we both wouldn't bat a eye at sending our misbehave teen to Haiti to experiment extreme poverty and realize how good they have it. And yes we most likely would address the problem before they reach 13 or 15, but if by that age they are still in the self Destructive mode then you pull out the big guns. Hopefully we won't have to go there but ready to do it if we have too. And with yearly travels to Haiti before then my kids would hopefully would have grasp the reality of how fortunate they are so don't fuck it up.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Aug 14, 2014 14:56:44 GMT -5
And I don't care if I sound like a judgmental bitch but no kid wakes up at 13 and spits in their parents' face. It happens gradually, over the years. And while I am sure there are children who have some kind of disorder, neurological or whatever, I think a lot of times parents didn't pay attention to certain signs long before such incidents occur. X 1,000 I am grateful that my wife, DMIL and I share the same values when it come to discipline. No it is not cute when little Johny at 1-2 year old start punching or bitting, you need to stop that right now. Or every time little Suzie at 3-5 throw a tantrum you let her have her way. You never correct or discipline them now at 14-15 you expect them to suddenly learn it is not ok and conform accordingly. Hitting is not the only way to deal with those problems. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Aug 14, 2014 14:57:08 GMT -5
Wonder what CPS would do if a kid contacted them and said my parents only beat the hell out of me when I'm out of the country? Tell the kid sorry call them in that country? Probably a sure fire way to make none of your kids ever want to visit family in that country though. Every time you mention it they'll think they're getting a beat down. You are assuming the kid would be back and able to call CPS
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Aug 14, 2014 14:57:20 GMT -5
I believe a slap doesn't 'teach' anything but that violence is an appropriate response to something you don't like. Wow, so you would have just sat there getting slobbered in spit all night then? I;m sure that would have taught her something...like she can do whatever she wants without any sort of consequences. Yep! That's exactly what I said!
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Aug 14, 2014 14:57:51 GMT -5
X 1,000 I am grateful that my wife, DMIL and I share the same values when it come to discipline. No it is not cute when little Johny at 1-2 year old start punching or bitting, you need to stop that right now. Or every time little Suzie at 3-5 throw a tantrum you let her have her way. You never correct or discipline them now at 14-15 you expect them to suddenly learn it is not ok and conform accordingly. Hitting is not the only way to deal with those problems. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards Did I say hit? I said "discipline" them. Is hitting the only way to discipline kids?
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Aug 14, 2014 14:57:50 GMT -5
Carl- Lena is right with her statement:
And I don't care if I sound like a judgmental bitch but no kid wakes up at 13 and spits in their parents' face. It happens gradually, over the years. And while I am sure there are children who have some kind of disorder, neurological or whatever, I think a lot of times parents didn't pay attention to certain signs long before such incidents occur.
If a kid truly makes a change from calm and peaceful to belligerent and spitting/hitting overnight than the parents should request a full medical evaluation. Odds on the girl in the OP was a "difficult" or high strung kid and the parents ignored it in the hopes that she'd outgrown it or something along those lines. I could be wrong she could have woken up some random Tuesday and decided "from now on I'm going to be an asshole".
I guess I'm going to just keep raising the Boy the way I have been raising him and keep my opinion to myself. Go ahead, beat you kid, fly them to a foreign country so they have no other choice but to put up with the abuse.
I'm just going to sit over here in the corner and do my own thing. Nothing you can say will ever convince me that hitting a kid is ok or a good disciplinary plan. Sorry not going to happen.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Aug 14, 2014 15:00:45 GMT -5
Hitting is not the only way to deal with those problems. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards Did I say hit? I said "discipline" them. Is hitting the only way to discipline kids? Your posts about discipline started with a statement that you would beat the crap out of your kids in another country where there isn't any protection/oversight from such abuse. I don't think I made much of a leap in my conclusion. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Aug 14, 2014 15:01:17 GMT -5
actually Carl- you didn't say "discipline" them what you said is: I would just bring my kids to Haiti and beat the crap out if them... Good luck calling CPS now you little punk!
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Aug 14, 2014 15:01:37 GMT -5
X 1,000 I am grateful that my wife, DMIL and I share the same values when it come to discipline. No it is not cute when little Johny at 1-2 year old start punching or bitting, you need to stop that right now. Or every time little Suzie at 3-5 throw a tantrum you let her have her way. You never correct or discipline them now at 14-15 you expect them to suddenly learn it is not ok and conform accordingly. Hitting is not the only way to deal with those problems. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards I've seen some of the other ways where parents just let the kid have the tantrum in the middle of the store/restaurant while they ignore it. Yeah, much better
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Mardi Gras Audrey
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Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on Aug 14, 2014 15:02:22 GMT -5
I'm curious as to how the anti-spanking crowd would handle a child like this? I've seen kids like this and there's no talking to them, so I'm not sure what you would think would work? Here are some possible ideas that I've seen used, and following them are the exact responses from the kids involved: "You're grounded!" her response: God, I fucking hate you! "We don't spit/hit people in this family!" her response: Whatever! "Go to your room!" her response: No, and you can't make me. Fuck you! And a counselor? Pfft, they only work if the child understands their behavior is wrong and that they need to change (just like any counseling, for child or adult). Take away all electronics, cancel cable or get rid of tv's all together, computer time only for homework in public room.of house, no allowance, dropped off at school and picked up.immediately afterwards, no rides anywhere else, strip her bedroom of everything but a bed.... All while trying to talk to the kid and help them learn to control their actions. Teaching kids who can't control their emotions that hitting is an acceptable solution to problems seems wrought with potential to backfire. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards What if those things don't work? If the kid doesn't care about electronics, cable tv, any material items. If you drop them off at school and they walk away from school to go hang out with their friends and smoke dope? They don't need rides anywhere because they are going out their bedroom window and meeting up with someone with a car around the corner? They are physically abusive to their parents and their siblings? It's easy to say "you shouldn't hit your kids". But what about when the kid hits you? A 13 year old shouldn't be assaulting someone else (heck a 2 year old shouldn't be assaulting someone else). So by not hitting them back (when nothing else has worked), you are teaching them that there are no consequences for assaulting someone. This is a dangerous message to be sending your children. They are sooo special that they can hit others but others are supposed to restrain themselves and not hit back? That may work with their mom and dad but what about when they decide they don't like what their spouse says as an adult or the kid next to them in school? They will choose to spit on them and it is going to end with them being arrested or jumped. Those are not good options...
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Aug 14, 2014 15:03:13 GMT -5
Hitting is not the only way to deal with those problems. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards Did I say hit? I said "discipline" them. Is hitting the only way to discipline kids? What you actually said that ruffled feathers: I would just bring my kids to Haiti and beat the crap out if them... Good luck calling CPS now you little punk! When asked if you were kidding you said "I am dead serious!!!"
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imanangel
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Post by imanangel on Aug 14, 2014 15:03:34 GMT -5
I do not know what went on in my DD's early years, we adopted her when she was 4. She has always been a very strong willed child. She has always been the type that when you tell her she can't do something, the minute you turn your back she does it anyway. It has been an on going thing since 4. She flat out has said she doesn't care what the consequences are, if she wants to do something, she is going to do with it and deal with the consequences later.
She has her good days and she has her bad days. She has never hit me or spit at me. She has said some really mean things to me. She has never said she hated me, but she has told me she wishes I never adopted her. She told her counselor she said that because she knew it would hurt my feelings and she was mad. She says she didn't mean it and she has never said it since.
We keep working with her. We try to keep the communication open. I try to let her know that even though she hurts me when she says things like that, I still love her.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Aug 14, 2014 15:03:41 GMT -5
Sheilaincali: why would I try to convince you of anything?
You parent your way, Lena will parent her way and my wife and I will parent our way.
Why is there this idea on YM that there is only one way, own right way to do anything ? One way to parent?
We are not from the same culture and we do not share the same background history. Nor did my friend that is Chinese or the one that is Muslim... Every culture parent differently with some similarities yet we all end up functional adults.
You have a few extreme in very culture or style but it doesn't definite it or necessarily make it wrong.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Aug 14, 2014 15:05:12 GMT -5
Carl- Lena is right with her statement:
And I don't care if I sound like a judgmental bitch but no kid wakes up at 13 and spits in their parents' face. It happens gradually, over the years. And while I am sure there are children who have some kind of disorder, neurological or whatever, I think a lot of times parents didn't pay attention to certain signs long before such incidents occur.
If a kid truly makes a change from calm and peaceful to belligerent and spitting/hitting overnight than the parents should request a full medical evaluation. Odds on the girl in the OP was a "difficult" or high strung kid and the parents ignored it in the hopes that she'd outgrown it or something along those lines. I could be wrong she could have woken up some random Tuesday and decided "from now on I'm goin I'd be scared that my kid was acting out because of abuse I didn't know about. OP said the child has been difficult for years. My kids aren't old enough for me to even say exactly what I'd do, but I would be very concerned about what triggered the behavior and how to help the kid learn coping mechanisms so that they don't spend their whole lives struggling like this. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Aug 14, 2014 15:05:08 GMT -5
I'm curious as to how the anti-spanking crowd would handle a child like this? I've seen kids like this and there's no talking to them, so I'm not sure what you would think would work? Here are some possible ideas that I've seen used, and following them are the exact responses from the kids involved: "You're grounded!" her response: God, I fucking hate you! "We don't spit/hit people in this family!" her response: Whatever! "Go to your room!" her response: No, and you can't make me. Fuck you! And a counselor? Pfft, they only work if the child understands their behavior is wrong and that they need to change (just like any counseling, for child or adult). Take away all electronics, cancel cable or get rid of tv's all together, computer time only for homework in public room.of house, no allowance, dropped off at school and picked up.immediately afterwards, no rides anywhere else, strip her bedroom of everything but a bed.... All while trying to talk to the kid and help them learn to control their actions. Teaching kids who can't control their emotions that hitting is an acceptable solution to problems seems wrought with potential to backfire. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards How will you get them to do their homework? How will you get them in the car to go to school? How will you make sure the kid stays in school for the day, or is there waiting to be picked up after?
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Aug 14, 2014 15:06:01 GMT -5
I'm curious as to how the anti-spanking crowd would handle a child like this? I've seen kids like this and there's no talking to them, so I'm not sure what you would think would work? Here are some possible ideas that I've seen used, and following them are the exact responses from the kids involved: "You're grounded!" her response: God, I fucking hate you! "We don't spit/hit people in this family!" her response: Whatever! "Go to your room!" her response: No, and you can't make me. Fuck you! And a counselor? Pfft, they only work if the child understands their behavior is wrong and that they need to change (just like any counseling, for child or adult). Take away all electronics, cancel cable or get rid of tv's all together, computer time only for homework in public room.of house, no allowance, dropped off at school and picked up.immediately afterwards, no rides anywhere else, strip her bedroom of everything but a bed.... All while trying to talk to the kid and help them learn to control their actions. Teaching kids who can't control their emotions that hitting is an acceptable solution to problems seems wrought with potential to backfire. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards All of which was tried with DN#6. So she ran away. Repeatedly. BIL put locks on the windows and deadbolts on the doors. Which he rekeyed on a weekly basis. She still got out. He boarded up her bedroom windows. She scratched off enough to get her hand in there and pull it off. She ran away, BIL and his wife would go file missing persons reports. DN#6 would come home at 1130pm, they'd haul her down to the police station to prove she was home and rescind (or whatever) the missing persons report. They were doing this 3-4 times a week. They had case workers. They had an emergency response type team. They were on speed dial with their pastor and his wife. Eventually, they got DN#6 into a group home. She ran away from there too (and was gone 8 days from there, the last 3 apparently without food.) The courts were obviously involved at this point. Now, at 14, DN#6 is about 125 miles from home, in a residential home. I don't know how long she'll stay there but they seemed to have stopped the running away.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 15:06:56 GMT -5
I'm curious as to how the anti-spanking crowd would handle a child like this? I've seen kids like this and there's no talking to them, so I'm not sure what you would think would work? Here are some possible ideas that I've seen used, and following them are the exact responses from the kids involved: "You're grounded!" her response: God, I fucking hate you! "We don't spit/hit people in this family!" her response: Whatever! "Go to your room!" her response: No, and you can't make me. Fuck you! And a counselor? Pfft, they only work if the child understands their behavior is wrong and that they need to change (just like any counseling, for child or adult). Take away all electronics, cancel cable or get rid of tv's all together, computer time only for homework in public room.of house, no allowance, dropped off at school and picked up.immediately afterwards, no rides anywhere else, strip her bedroom of everything but a bed.... All while trying to talk to the kid and help them learn to control their actions. Teaching kids who can't control their emotions that hitting is an acceptable solution to problems seems wrought with potential to backfire. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards The ipod would be the only thing I have for older son! He has pretty much none of these other things. Heck, he doesn't even have his own bedroom since our house flooded last year. There's just a bed in the family room. We have no cable. We have on TV in the house, but it's almost never on until after the kids are in bed. No computer. He technically gets an allowance, but it just gets transferred to his ING account which he never cares about or asks for.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Aug 14, 2014 15:07:53 GMT -5
Hitting is not the only way to deal with those problems. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards I've seen some of the other ways where parents just let the kid have the tantrum in the middle of the store/restaurant while they ignore it. Yeah, much better Depending on the age & situation, sometimes ignoring it is better. Sometimes they just want attention, even negative attention. I use to ignore DS & he would settle on stop on his own without too many problems. Unfortunately DD is the opposite & escalates & eventually start throwing shit or trying to hit someone.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Aug 14, 2014 15:07:55 GMT -5
And I don't care if I sound like a judgmental bitch but no kid wakes up at 13 and spits in their parents' face. It happens gradually, over the years. And while I am sure there are children who have some kind of disorder, neurological or whatever, I think a lot of times parents didn't pay attention to certain signs long before such incidents occur. X 1,000 I am grateful that my wife, DMIL and I share the same values when it come to discipline. No it is not cute when little Johny at 1-2 year old start punching or bitting, you need to stop that right now. Or every time little Suzie at 3-5 throw a tantrum you let her have her way. You never correct or discipline them now at 14-15 you expect them to suddenly learn it is not ok and conform accordingly. It's not always that simple Carl. My BIL and his wife did discipline when DN#6 was young.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Aug 14, 2014 15:08:17 GMT -5
so when a husband and wife are fighting and emotions run high and it's just a smack, it's all good? Well, if my husband spit in my face, I'd probably smack him. Yep. And if I spit in his face I would not be surprised to get a slap in return either.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 14, 2014 15:09:27 GMT -5
Hitting is not the only way to deal with those problems. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards I've seen some of the other ways where parents just let the kid have the tantrum in the middle of the store/restaurant while they ignore it. Yeah, much better I once let my kid have a full meltdown in the middle of the science museum. He was 2 at the time. He was lying on the floor, crying and stomping his feet and I was sitting 10 feet away on a bench. He saw me and I saw him the whole time. He got bored with it pretty quickly, got up and went about his business. It was loud enough in the museum that I didn't think he was ruining everyone's experience. I wouldn't have done the same in a grocery store or a restaurant bc it wouldn't have been fair to other people. My kids have learned before they could talk and walk that they will never ever get anything by throwing a temper tantrum. My kids have also learned that whatever it is that is making them THAT upset - will be important enough for me to listen and help them with it if they simply talk to me. I've been working on it for years and it's still not 100%. But than again, it has never been my goal to discipline my kids and certainly not have them obey me. We'll see what happens in the future. In the meantime, I am saving for their (and mine) therapy just in case
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Mardi Gras Audrey
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Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on Aug 14, 2014 15:10:51 GMT -5
At the end of the day, there is a limit to what you can do as a parent. You can take everything away from the child and try to make them have enough consequences (both positive and negative) for their behavior that they choose to do the right things. But, you can't force them to attend school or do homework.
If they are physically abusive to their parent or siblings though, you don't have to tolerate that. I am not a parent but I wouldn't accept a 25 year old co-worker spitting on me, I sure as hell wouldn't accept it from my 13 year old. Especially if it is in my home that I am paying for. I think not calling the cops/having the kid arrested (which is what I would do if an adult did it) but slapping them in the face is appropriate. My house, my rules. You want to be a punk? You are not going to harm me or my family in my home. Period.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Aug 14, 2014 15:10:56 GMT -5
Take away all electronics, cancel cable or get rid of tv's all together, computer time only for homework in public room.of house, no allowance, dropped off at school and picked up.immediately afterwards, no rides anywhere else, strip her bedroom of everything but a bed.... All while trying to talk to the kid and help them learn to control their actions. Teaching kids who can't control their emotions that hitting is an acceptable solution to problems seems wrought with potential to backfire. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards How will you get them to do their homework? How will you get them in the car to go to school? How will you make sure the kid stays in school for the day, or is there waiting to be picked up after? Yeah, for some kids that stuff just doesn't work. I have an acquaintance with a boy like that. Punishment of any sort does not phase him. He is now in a facility at 14 because the parents can't control him at all. But, I saw this coming 6 years ago & the parents didn't do nearly enough to straighten him up when he was young enough that they still had an opportunity.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Aug 14, 2014 15:11:48 GMT -5
Take away all electronics, cancel cable or get rid of tv's all together, computer time only for homework in public room.of house, no allowance, dropped off at school and picked up.immediately afterwards, no rides anywhere else, strip her bedroom of everything but a bed.... All while trying to talk to the kid and help them learn to control their actions. Teaching kids who can't control their emotions that hitting is an acceptable solution to problems seems wrought with potential to backfire. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards How will you get them to do their homework? How will you get them in the car to go to school? How will you make sure the kid stays in school for the day, or is there waiting to be picked up after? Beating them will make all of those questions go away? Because if you're talking about a child so out of control that nothing but physical discipline gets through to them you are going to have to-as Carl said)beat the crap out of them to behave. Seriously-kids that are that difficult have something wrong and need help. I have a friend who is working with her oldest who has Tourettes and they are changing their entire lifestyle because of the improvementd they are seeing through therapy, nutrition, and exercise. The spanked him for years but that didn't fix the underlying issue. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Aug 14, 2014 15:12:20 GMT -5
Hitting is not the only way to deal with those problems. Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards I've seen some of the other ways where parents just let the kid have the tantrum in the middle of the store/restaurant while they ignore it. Yeah, much better You sound angry. Were you slapped as a child?
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Aug 14, 2014 15:13:20 GMT -5
X 1,000 I am grateful that my wife, DMIL and I share the same values when it come to discipline. No it is not cute when little Johny at 1-2 year old start punching or bitting, you need to stop that right now. Or every time little Suzie at 3-5 throw a tantrum you let her have her way. You never correct or discipline them now at 14-15 you expect them to suddenly learn it is not ok and conform accordingly. It's not always that simple Carl. My BIL and his wife did discipline when DN#6 was young. In that case that is when I will happily pull the Haiti card or military school / boarding school. My # 1 job would be to keep you from self destructing and fucking up so bad you can never go back. And yes as a future paren I reserve the right to beat my kids if necessary... *flame away*
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 14, 2014 15:15:06 GMT -5
I disagree about never hitting. DD used to bite. We tried everything to get her to stop. It stopped when I bit her back and told her this is what it feels like to the people you bite.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Aug 14, 2014 15:15:08 GMT -5
I've seen some of the other ways where parents just let the kid have the tantrum in the middle of the store/restaurant while they ignore it. Yeah, much better Depending on the age & situation, sometimes ignoring it is better. Sometimes they just want attention, even negative attention. I use to ignore DS & he would settle on stop on his own without too many problems. Unfortunately DD is the opposite & escalates & eventually start throwing shit or trying to hit someone. I've done this. I apologized to the people nearby and tried to make sure he was out of the way. The only way I could get him off the floor and out of the store would mean I'd be a punching bag and he'd fight me getting into the car too. It's embarrassing. It's humiliating. It's sad. And it's fucking depressing. My 4.75 year old boy is closing in on 4 feet tall and 55+ lbs.
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Angel!
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:44:08 GMT -5
Posts: 10,722
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Post by Angel! on Aug 14, 2014 15:15:13 GMT -5
It's not always that simple Carl. My BIL and his wife did discipline when DN#6 was young. In that case that is when I will happily pull the Haiti card or military school / boarding school. My # 1 job would be to keep you from self destructing and fucking up so bad you can never go back. And yes as a future paren I reserve the right to beat my kids if necessary... *flame away* I have known kids that grew up where beating was an acceptable punishment. It accomplishes very little, but further messing up your kid & is a really fucked up way to parent.
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