hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 20, 2014 14:24:20 GMT -5
::Only time will tell if her lesson was successful or not. ::
Or the correct lesson. I can just picture her tripping a sensor at a store on her way out, and the child telling the manager "mommy steals".
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Aug 20, 2014 14:29:33 GMT -5
There is a big difference between parents blatantly letting their kids play in the street and toddler/preschooler who slips away from their parents in a parking lot/while walking. There have been no examples of a child "slipping away" being discussed. Only children going into the street while parents weren't paying attention to them. And it's probably a LOT more likely for a child to be hit while running into the street than it is for a group of kids standing in the middle of the street already. Most drivers tend to forego the 50 bonus points and not intentionally hit a group of kids in the street. A kid running out into the street from off the street is more likely to not be seen by a driver. That doesn't make letting them play in the street a good idea, but it's probably safer than what is actually happening in the discussion here. Really? Because I wasn't ignoring my daughter. I saw her run after the dog. I just had to get her brother to stop holding onto me long enough that I could run after her. Thankfully there was not a street nearby. Since you are the parenting expert, how do you handle a situation like that? I couldn't run fast enough if I picked up DS and ran with him. He was holding onto my legs to the point I couldn't even get in a good position to reach down and pick him up. There was no reason for DD to be on a leash as we were at a playground. She can't very well climb up stairs with a leash on. Since you have an answer for everything, please tell me so that next time I will be sure to do it correctly. What do you consider slipping away? How long is a parent allowed to not glance at there child? I want to make sure I'm not blinking too long either.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 20, 2014 14:37:33 GMT -5
::Since you are the parenting expert, how do you handle a situation like that? ::
If I couldn't properly keep my kids from danger, I wouldn't be at the playground with them both.
::What do you consider slipping away? How long is a parent allowed to not glance at there child? I want to make sure I'm not blinking too long either. ::
Depends entirely on how fast each of you are, how far apart you are, and how nearby danger is. If they're in the deep end of a pool, better not look away too long. If they're in your solidly enclosed back yard maybe a little longer. If they're duct-taped firmly to the floor of their bedroom you have long enough to take a shower.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Aug 20, 2014 14:48:52 GMT -5
I so want to see you with kids. I really do. Because if you have more than one, there will be a situation where you can't take care of both of them at the same time. There will come a time when you have to say, stay here and hope that your kid has learned the lesson well enough to do it. The irony of you saying that you wouldn't be at the playground with both of them is that in my situation I wasn't alone at the park with my kids. As I said, my dad and husband were swapping out carseats and my mom walked over to the car for some reason. My kids just took that particular moment for DS to meltdown and DD to see a dog off a leash and to start running towards it. Theoretical parenting is a blast.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 20, 2014 15:02:25 GMT -5
I so want to see you with kids. I really do. Because if you have more than one, there will be a situation where you can't take care of both of them at the same time. There will come a time when you have to say, stay here and hope that your kid has learned the lesson well enough to do it. The irony of you saying that you wouldn't be at the playground with both of them is that in my situation I wasn't alone at the park with my kids. As I said, my dad and husband were swapping out carseats and my mom walked over to the car for some reason. My kids just took that particular moment for DS to meltdown and DD to see a dog off a leash and to start running towards it. Theoretical parenting is a blast. Fortunately I don't have to worry about watching any kids I have since I'm a guy. That's a woman's job. (See, this is trolling). I understand mistakes happen. Kids get loose and get into things. The problem I have is that rather than parents realizing "hey, I made a mistake, i wasn't prepared for that (or I wasn't paying enough attention)" it's either "oh well, not my fault cuz they're kids" or "better hit them so they don't do it again". Of course it's theoretical, I would hope that theoretically you would be saying to yourself "that was a bad decision, if I could actually think about what I would do in that case, I should have made one of the other adults stick around closer". Theoretical anything is always easier.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 20, 2014 15:05:21 GMT -5
OK, I don't know if Hoops is serious or not, but I actually did and sometimes still do some of what he is suggesting.
There were many places that I haven't taken the kids yet bc I didn't trust that I could properly supervise and take care of all 3 of them by myself.
This year is the first time we went to the beach. I skipped a whole year (when my youngest was 2) of going to certain parks and playgrounds. I avoided certain museums.
I had/have a whole system of who is getting out of the car first, second and last just to make sure that I have my hand on them the entire time.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 20, 2014 15:11:15 GMT -5
There is a big difference between parents blatantly letting their kids play in the street and toddler/preschooler who slips away from their parents in a parking lot/while walking.
Yes, there is. I do get annoyed when I see kids the same age as my daughter playing in the streets with no close parental supervision. It makes me feel like I need to keep an eye on them as well as my own kid and I only want to watch MY kid. I'm not a babysitter. I like Sam_2.0's "hands on the car!" thing. It's true, though, that even the best and most attentive parents can't watch their kids every second - especially with multiple toddlers. I honestly don't know how people do it. When we had DH's sister and her kids over a week ago, we had a 1:1 kid to adult ratio (and one of those kids was 10, so she didn't need the constant supervision of the two toddlers) and I still found it VERY difficult to keep track of them. It does piss me off when people don't properly supervise their toddlers, but I agree that the dashing toddler can happen to anyone.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Aug 20, 2014 15:16:34 GMT -5
You can't yell. It has to be a soft voice. and only gentle touches.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 20, 2014 15:29:36 GMT -5
Really? Because I wasn't ignoring my daughter. I saw her run after the dog. I just had to get her brother to stop holding onto me long enough that I could run after her. Thankfully there was not a street nearby.
There is a (young, male, un-neutered) pit bull in our neighborhood. I have nothing against the breed (we used to have one next door and she was a super friendly and well trained dog) but this particular dog and his owners freak me out.
The only time I've seen the dog he's always been on the leash. But my teenage babysitter who lives next door mentioned last week that she's seen him out without a leash.
As I've mentioned, our neighborhood is very safe. On the list of things I worry about, my kid getting snatched is like 1053rd and getting hit by a car is maybe 30th. But I am VERY scared of big dogs when it comes to small babies, especially THIS dog if his idiot owners really have him out there without a leash.
The last time I saw the dog, he was on a leash and the kids were playing with water balloons in the driveway. Well, this dog was STRAINING at his leash trying to get to Babybird (and the balloon she was carrying). He was looking at her like she was a cookie.
I was standing between her and the dog the whole time but I was still freaked out. All they had to do was release the leash for two seconds and my kid's face could have been lunch meat.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 20, 2014 15:31:36 GMT -5
I had/have a whole system of who is getting out of the car first, second and last just to make sure that I have my hand on them the entire time.
What's your system? I'm very curious how people deal with this issue because as I said, I do have some understanding (much more now after dealing with two toddlers for a week) of how difficult it is. I'd be interested to know what measures you use to keep all three of your boys safe in that situation.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 20, 2014 15:44:34 GMT -5
I had/have a whole system of who is getting out of the car first, second and last just to make sure that I have my hand on them the entire time.
What's your system? I'm very curious how people deal with this issue because as I said, I do have some understanding (much more now after dealing with two toddlers for a week) of how difficult it is. I'd be interested to know what measures you use to keep all three of your boys safe in that situation. They are allowed to get out of the car only 1. With me standing at the door 2. They all get out of the same door 3. They go out in order of who I can trust the most and get in in the opposite order. 4. Once they are out of the car, their hand is VERY firmly in mine or they go back in. If there are "issues" of them getting in, I pick up the one who is the crankiest and throw him in first and then the other two and I get in and lock the door. Then they can either cry until the cows come home or they can buckle in and we can move on with the day.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Aug 20, 2014 15:52:53 GMT -5
kids can be sneaky little ninjas when they want to. We had a two on one situation when DS pulled his Houdini.
We were at a box store (Fred Meyer specifically) looking at Shoes for DS. DS was about one at the time but had been walking since 9 months and running since 9 month and one week. DS was in his stroller. DH walked across the aisle to look at one pair of shoes and I bent down to look for a box with DS' size on it. I had one hand on the stroller but it was facing away from me. DS for the first time in his life, unbuckled himself and ran about 100 feet away and climbed into the coin operated car by the entrance.
I didn't even feel him slither out of the stroller. He wasn't gone more than a few seconds before we noticed. I freaked out and am frantically running around the shoe department yelling for him, DH is crawling around on the floor assuming DS is sitting under a table. After what felt like forever (in reality less than 90 seconds) an employee yells "Ma'am!!! Is that your son?" and points to DS happily sitting in the coin car waving at me and grinning from ear to ear.
That is the most scared I have ever been in my entire life. My fault I'm sure for not realizing that he would be able to unbuckle the stroller lap belt that I struggled to unbuckle. My fault for not turning the stroller to face me at all times. I'm sure there a dozen things people could point out that I did wrong.
My point is that even in ideal circumstances kids can still pull a ninja/Houdini move in the blink of an eye.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 20, 2014 15:54:37 GMT -5
4. Once they are out of the car, their hand is VERY firmly in mine or they go back in.
You only have two hands. What do you do with the third kid? Does he hold one of his brother's hands?
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Aug 20, 2014 16:12:01 GMT -5
At least for me there is a constant questions, what is the worst that can happen in this situation? If DD gets away from me, what is going to happen? The first time we took them to the beach while we were on vacation, we were paranoid, but as it turned out, neither kid had any desire to go in the water. And in fact was deathly afraid of it. So, we let them get a little farther away from us the next couple times we headed to the beach. But then they flip the switch on us and suddenly DS was ok with the water and waded into the bay. We are taking them to a waterpark on Friday. You better believe that they are going to be within an arms reach at all times. When we take the cave tour, DD is going to be strapped to my back in a backpack and we'll see if we ever let her get down during the tour.
But at a playground far from a road, when I go through what the worst that could happen, I wasn't expecting someone to leave their dog off a leash. Not when it was obvious there were little kids nearby. There wasn't a road real close. The worst that could happen was I would have to run after one of my kids (which I ended up doing, it just took a little longer to catch up than usual because of a delay detatching DS). If I will take my kids to the park by myself again because that is the only time I've had an issue in over a year and that was the one time I wasn't even really by myself. I'm not going to live in fear that there is a stray dog around every corner. I'm ok in circumstances letting my kids walk off (within eyesight) and explore and not me hover right over them. Do my kids take a tumble more than some other toddlers because I'm not right there to catch every time? Sure, but at the same time I'm not going to let them tumble into a creek or a lake where the consequences of that decision are more than a skinned knee.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 20, 2014 16:34:12 GMT -5
4. Once they are out of the car, their hand is VERY firmly in mine or they go back in.You only have two hands. What do you do with the third kid? Does he hold one of his brother's hands? Most of the time my oldest would hold the hand of one of his brothers. If they don't want him to, then I grab his hand in the same hand I am already using for one of the youngest. It gets very uncomfortable for them pretty fast and they allow my oldest to hold their hand. Bc I couldn't care less if they are tripping over each other, their safety trumps their uncomfortableness. My oldest is also the most cautious one of them all and the one I trust the most. But in crowded places we are all connected or off back to the car they go.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 20, 2014 17:28:09 GMT -5
Do my kids take a tumble more than some other toddlers because I'm not right there to catch every time? Sure, but at the same time I'm not going to let them tumble into a creek or a lake where the consequences of that decision are more than a skinned knee.
To be clear, I wasn't criticizing your incident. The comment about the dog just snagged my attention because it's currently an issue in our neighborhood.
My philosophy is similar to yours. The more danger, the closer I am. I also do my best not to run to Babybird's side the second she falls. She's a tough kid (barely cries even when she gets shots) and I don't think having Mommy hover directly over her while she plays and be right there to kiss every minor boo-boo is healthy. Obviously when she takes a huge fall and is wailing, that's different. But I try to take my cue from her. If she's not upset, I don't know why I should be.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Aug 20, 2014 18:18:07 GMT -5
You guys are crazy. I'm glad I'm a dad.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Aug 21, 2014 1:33:06 GMT -5
I so want to see you with kids. I really do. Because if you have more than one, there will be a situation where you can't take care of both of them at the same time. There will come a time when you have to say, stay here and hope that your kid has learned the lesson well enough to do it. The irony of you saying that you wouldn't be at the playground with both of them is that in my situation I wasn't alone at the park with my kids. As I said, my dad and husband were swapping out carseats and my mom walked over to the car for some reason. My kids just took that particular moment for DS to meltdown and DD to see a dog off a leash and to start running towards it. Theoretical parenting is a blast. Mutt, you just don't get it do you? If you can't keep both kids safe at the same time you need to duct tape one of them into their car seat and then you take the other one to the gas station across the street so you can use the facilities. I forgot whether your car had to be in the dark so as not to be stolen with, but you can figure that out right? I can't believe how many posters think that they have absolute control because they are permanently and perfectly vigilant! I know I've said it before but I'll say it again: raising kids is a lot of effort but without a good dose of luck even the best intentioned parent will be in for a world of hurt!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2014 2:56:24 GMT -5
There is a big difference between parents blatantly letting their kids play in the street and toddler/preschooler who slips away from their parents in a parking lot/while walking. Of course.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Aug 21, 2014 8:49:47 GMT -5
You can't yell. It has to be a soft voice. and only gentle touches. and you always are the perfect model of behavior to/for them.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Aug 21, 2014 8:52:10 GMT -5
I had/have a whole system of who is getting out of the car first, second and last just to make sure that I have my hand on them the entire time.
What's your system? I'm very curious how people deal with this issue because as I said, I do have some understanding (much more now after dealing with two toddlers for a week) of how difficult it is. I'd be interested to know what measures you use to keep all three of your boys safe in that situation. They are allowed to get out of the car only 1. With me standing at the door 2. They all get out of the same door 3. They go out in order of who I can trust the most and get in in the opposite order. 4. Once they are out of the car, their hand is VERY firmly in mine or they go back in. If there are "issues" of them getting in, I pick up the one who is the crankiest and throw him in first and then the other two and I get in and lock the door. Then they can either cry until the cows come home or they can buckle in and we can move on with the day. I do something similar with my 2. Except they are allowed to hang onto the door handle.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 21, 2014 8:59:17 GMT -5
They are allowed to get out of the car only 1. With me standing at the door 2. They all get out of the same door 3. They go out in order of who I can trust the most and get in in the opposite order. 4. Once they are out of the car, their hand is VERY firmly in mine or they go back in. If there are "issues" of them getting in, I pick up the one who is the crankiest and throw him in first and then the other two and I get in and lock the door. Then they can either cry until the cows come home or they can buckle in and we can move on with the day. I do something similar with my 2. Except they are allowed to hang onto the door handle. Nope, that wouldn't work bc I need this car for another 10 yrs and I have less than zero interest in replacing door handles.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Aug 21, 2014 9:25:14 GMT -5
I do something similar with my 2. Except they are allowed to hang onto the door handle. Nope, that wouldn't work bc I need this car for another 10 yrs and I have less than zero interest in replacing door handles. Surprisingly, it works pretty well. Keira is great at it so she often gets to hold a door handle while I get Cabe in. Or get her door unlocked - the power lock doesn't work on her door so I have to open the front door and reach around to manually open her door. But there's only 2 of them and I have no expectations of my minivan lasting 10 more years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2014 9:45:10 GMT -5
Permit me to address, without flaming me as trying to be an expert, the "kids slipping away, running off and not coming back" issue. Having raised my own kids and now helping to raise grand kids and having helped raise other peoples kids, I can tell you what has worked for me. From the time the child is steady on his feet, you start slowly training him to stop when you say stop and stay when you say stay. It's no different than how you train a dog. Sorry for the comparison but it isn't. You reward with hugs, maybe a little cracker, and you punish with a time out and you are consistent 100% of the time. You start by putting the child on a long lead, let him get out of reach, tell him to stop and if he doesn't, a little tug on the lead gets his attention. Falling on his butt won't kill him. He will soon connect the word stop to the tug of the rope. Then, you go get him and make him sit in time out next to you. No hugs, no toys, just a sour look on mom's face. He'll soon get the idea. The biggest boo-boo I see parents commit is that they are not consistent in their training. I can't tell you how many times I've sat at a park listening to a mother screaming at her kid to stop or come back, only to be ignored. The mother, unwilling to get off the bench, throws up her hands and exclaims, "What am I going to do?! He won't listen to me!" It doesn't matter where you are, at a wedding, at the park, in the store or at home, NEVER EVER slip up on the training. Put down the phone, stop talking to your friend and go be a parent. One weak lazy moment can set you way back. Is your child getting run over in the street worth that last text? Until you can train your child to stop every time, dead in his tracks, when he hears you holler "Stop!" then the training isn't over. You've got two toddlers? Get two leads. Sorry for the preaching, but I just get so frustrated when I see or hear about wild kids who won't mind, because there is no reason for it.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Aug 21, 2014 9:49:25 GMT -5
Lone, you've raised kids. And while I don't necessarily agree or disagree with HOW you did it, the fact is that you have raised kids. You're not in "theoretical parenting land" so I wouldn't flame you on that front.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Aug 21, 2014 10:33:26 GMT -5
Lone, you've raised kids. And while I don't necessarily agree or disagree with HOW you did it, the fact is that you have raised kids. You're not in "theoretical parenting land" so I wouldn't flame you on that front.
I do agree with the importance of consistency and follow through. My brother yells at his kids constantly and threatens them but never follows through so they completely ignore him.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 21, 2014 10:35:14 GMT -5
What parents have perfected THE LOOK? How effective was it?
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 21, 2014 10:59:44 GMT -5
oh dear lord, that sounds like way too much work.
it's much easier for me to hold their hands when needed and wait until they are old enough to understand what it means to run into the street. Two down, one to go.
If I wanted to have a dog and train a dog, I would have gotten a dog. And while Pavlov's method is certainly withheld the test of time, somehow I never thought to apply it to my kids
And there is NOTHING that my little kids can do that I would withhold a hug from them. NOTHING!!
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michelyn8
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Post by michelyn8 on Aug 21, 2014 11:12:14 GMT -5
What parents have perfected THE LOOK? How effective was it? I have and it has been very effective - even on children not my own. I supervised a field trip when DD2 was in 3rd or 4th grade and had one rambunctious little redheaded boy in my group. He really wasn't misbehaving but did push his luck a bit on the not listening. At one point towards the end of the day when all the kids were getting tired and little rowdy he started getting a bit rowdier than the others. I shot him my look and he kind of grinned at me and said "uh oh, she's got that look again". I had to laugh but he did settle down. But I later found out that his his great-great grandmother was my paternal grandmother's older sister and since my look was inherited from my father, I'm thinking he'd seen it before within his own family. DGD is learning that when I give that look it means business. I gave it to her the other night when she wasn't listening and she told me not to look at her like that. When I first started giving it to her, she'd mimick me and even uses it now on her father. Since she has my father's eyes, seeing that expression on her face really makes her look like him.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Aug 21, 2014 11:20:37 GMT -5
What parents have perfected THE LOOK? How effective was it? It appears I have (well, if DD isn't actually looking at me I have to clear my throat to get her attention). She's not a teen yet, so I'm not sure how much longer it will last. It also works on DH. As stated before, follow through is important. THE LOOK warns them that momma isn't happy, and we all know that if momma isn't happy - the no one is happy!
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