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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2014 22:46:35 GMT -5
For $50/Mo (or less) - you can register your kid in day-camp where adult supervision and supervised activities are provided for your child during the 7-8 weeks of summer the kid isn't in school during the day. Cheaper than the monthly cost of TWO cells.
I'm in a super low cost of living area and there are no day camps for $50/month, not even $50/week. The cheapest I've found is YMCA and park rec for around $125/week. I typically spend over $800/summer on camps for older son and he only goes to 4 or 5 now. He just stays home the rest of the time.
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Jul 16, 2014 23:00:41 GMT -5
When we were kids, we went to "Church" camp - it was a camp at a large lake (cabin facilities), sponsored by our Church denomination - for the entire Province.
It was funded through the Church through collection plate donations and sponsors. Each of us (at at least one time) spent 2 weeks of summer vacation there - didn't cost for my parents, except to drive us up there and pick us up once camp was over - or have arranged transportation.
We had all kinds of activities and crafting, nature hikes, swimming ... there was a 'community' dining hall, and group leaders - and supervisors for each cabin.
There are solutions to finding provisions for a child this girl's age - if you search them out - many are free or VERY low cost.
I had some of my best times in my earlier youth at church camp. (There wasn't any "religion" taught - it was all for recreation and youth/outdoor activities). One of my more enjoyable times as a kid.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2014 7:02:54 GMT -5
When we were kids, we went to "Church" camp - it was a camp at a large lake (cabin facilities), sponsored by our Church denomination - for the entire Province.
It was funded through the Church through collection plate donations and sponsors. Each of us (at at least one time) spent 2 weeks of summer vacation there - didn't cost for my parents, except to drive us up there and pick us up once camp was over - or have arranged transportation.
We had all kinds of activities and crafting, nature hikes, swimming ... there was a 'community' dining hall, and group leaders - and supervisors for each cabin.
There are solutions to finding provisions for a child this girl's age - if you search them out - many are free or VERY low cost.
I had some of my best times in my earlier youth at church camp. (There wasn't any "religion" taught - it was all for recreation and youth/outdoor activities). One of my more enjoyable times as a kid.
please post links to some of these free or very low cost camps. in your case, if you weren't a member of the church, could you attend? plus you said it was 2 weeks - what about the other 8 weeks that the girl is off for the summer?
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michelyn8
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Post by michelyn8 on Jul 17, 2014 7:34:04 GMT -5
I'd also love a list of these so-called free/low cost camps for kids and where they are. In my area there are no such camps that last all summer. When my kids were little, parks and rec would do a week long camps varying weeks in each elementary district that I was able to send my kids to. BUT - each district had one camp per summer and we have maybe 4 districts in our county. And you were strongly discouraged from using it as a daycare alternative. This was mid-late 90's and I think even then the cost per child was something like $75 for the week.
Around here there are no other alternatives except the YMCA camps which is in another county completely and maybe a church camp which is usually just a long weekend for youth group members (middle school and up ages). Shoot, even the Vacation Bible Schools have gone to taking place at night (6-8:30 or so) so the parents can participate too - no more 9-12 during the day just for the kids anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2014 7:34:06 GMT -5
When we were kids, we went to "Church" camp - it was a camp at a large lake (cabin facilities), sponsored by our Church denomination - for the entire Province.
It was funded through the Church through collection plate donations and sponsors. Each of us (at at least one time) spent 2 weeks of summer vacation there - didn't cost for my parents, except to drive us up there and pick us up once camp was over - or have arranged transportation.
We had all kinds of activities and crafting, nature hikes, swimming ... there was a 'community' dining hall, and group leaders - and supervisors for each cabin.
There are solutions to finding provisions for a child this girl's age - if you search them out - many are free or VERY low cost.
I had some of my best times in my earlier youth at church camp. (There wasn't any "religion" taught - it was all for recreation and youth/outdoor activities). One of my more enjoyable times as a kid.
please post links to some of these free or very low cost camps. in your case, if you weren't a member of the church, could you attend? plus you said it was 2 weeks - what about the other 8 weeks that the girl is off for the summer? Ours are off 12. They don't go back until after Labor Day And the last two weeks of the summer there aren't even any camps available anywhere around here. They all seem to quit the second week of August. Not a big deal now, but when he was younger it kind of sucked.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 17, 2014 7:52:50 GMT -5
The lowest day camp for a full day I've found here is $125 per week. I haven't seen anything that is $50/month.
You could take a single summer class for that amount at various places but those only last 1-2 hours. What is the mom supposed to do for the rest of her shift?
I'd love to know where all these super low cost/free camps that take your kid all day for the entire summer are too. Kids & Co has a subsidized rate if you're low income but it still over $100 a week for the summer.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2014 8:05:05 GMT -5
I'd also love a list of these so-called free/low cost camps for kids and where they are. In my area there are no such camps that last all summer. When my kids were little, parks and rec would do a week long camps varying weeks in each elementary district that I was able to send my kids to. BUT - each district had one camp per summer and we have maybe 4 districts in our county. And you were strongly discouraged from using it as a daycare alternative. This was mid-late 90's and I think even then the cost per child was something like $75 for the week. Around here there are no other alternatives except the YMCA camps which is in another county completely and maybe a church camp which is usually just a long weekend for youth group members (middle school and up ages). Shoot, even the Vacation Bible Schools have gone to taking place at night (6-8:30 or so) so the parents can participate too - no more 9-12 during the day just for the kids anymore. And those camps that are just a few hours a day are useless for people working full-time. Even when my son goes to Ycamp which is all day I have to pay for extended care in the mornings since the camp only runs from 8:45-4:00. Paying the extra $20/week I can drop him off at 7.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 17, 2014 8:12:55 GMT -5
Statistically this is false. We just hear about it more. We are constantly plugged in so that we hear about the child abduction in Georgia when we live in Missouri.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 17, 2014 8:22:45 GMT -5
When we were kids, we went to "Church" camp - it was a camp at a large lake (cabin facilities), sponsored by our Church denomination - for the entire Province.
It was funded through the Church through collection plate donations and sponsors. Each of us (at at least one time) spent 2 weeks of summer vacation there - didn't cost for my parents, except to drive us up there and pick us up once camp was over - or have arranged transportation.
We had all kinds of activities and crafting, nature hikes, swimming ... there was a 'community' dining hall, and group leaders - and supervisors for each cabin.
There are solutions to finding provisions for a child this girl's age - if you search them out - many are free or VERY low cost.
I had some of my best times in my earlier youth at church camp. (There wasn't any "religion" taught - it was all for recreation and youth/outdoor activities). One of my more enjoyable times as a kid.
I went to church camp too, I was a counselor there, my siblings went there, even my mom went there. I hope my kids can go there too. However, it was not free at all and it was not for 2 weeks. In fact, when I was a counselor it was a big deal when we had the camp that lasted 10 days. I think the cheapest "week" long camp I went to was $100 back in 1990. The cheapest week long camp they have now is $280. The kids at my church are going to a different camp. They got scholarships through the regional group of the church and then the rest of our church is helping with expenses from a fundraiser lunch we had.The regional scholarship is only because no one else applies!! I also assure you that religion is taught at both of those camps.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2014 8:28:25 GMT -5
Statistically this is false. We just hear about it more. We are constantly plugged in so that we hear about the child abduction in Georgia when we live in Missouri. Statistically it Happens less... But honestly you can't say that this is because there are fewer people with bad intentions... To be honest, its possible it happens less BECAUSE people are more protective. You can't eliminate the variable from consideration.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jul 17, 2014 8:53:33 GMT -5
Community Ed in my town runs $25 per day. You do get a discount per kid if you have multiple kids. Two days a week they do field trips (at no extra charge). Scholarships are readily available.
DS used to do the community ed things all the time. He loved them- we usually sent him on field trip days. Especially once he was school aged and just did after school care through the YWCA. On the non-school days they'd plan a field trip or an activity and it was pretty cheap for the day.
Now it's set at $25 per day. Cheap but still painful if you are only making $8 an hour and working a 6 hour shift- basically half of your daily gross would go towards this camp option.
But like I said- scholarships are readily available. As in if you fill out the application it asks right on the form if you need to inquire about a scholarship.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 17, 2014 8:59:50 GMT -5
The Boys & Girls club here is $40 a month but reading their website I don't think you can use them as full time childcare.
Child care at the YMCA is $160 a week. Members are $140 a week. Doesn't mention if they accept the child care subsidy or not.
Camps only go to August 1st and school doesn't start till around Labor Day so the mother would have to find 3 more weeks of childcare.
Kids & Co is $112 per week for childcare in the summer. If you qualify for the subsidy you pay $95. Which isn't terrible but is more than $50 a month. Looking at the subsidy income qualifications if the mom in the article works full time at McD's I don't think she'd qualify she'd make too much according to her gross income.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jul 17, 2014 11:05:09 GMT -5
Statistically this is false. We just hear about it more. We are constantly plugged in so that we hear about the child abduction in Georgia when we live in Missouri. I'd love to see the statistic which accurately measures peoples' intentions.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jul 17, 2014 11:38:20 GMT -5
Ok, here's another (inexpensive solution).
The 9 year old is mostly in school for 7-8 hrs a day during school semester - so I have to conclude that McD working mom left her kid in the park during summer break (and her on day-shift).
For $50/Mo (or less) - you can register your kid in day-camp where adult supervision and supervised activities are provided for your child during the 7-8 weeks of summer the kid isn't in school during the day. Cheaper than the monthly cost of TWO cells.
Isn't that a much safer (and inexpensive) solution to keeping your kid safe/protected while you work your McD shift, than leaving the kid alone for hours on end at a nearby park to keep her self entertained with nothing but a cell-phone in case of emergency or danger?? Kids get bored - they wander off - they're very trusting of adults (ANY adult).
Yes, back in the dark ages when I was a kid we could ride our bikes for miles or for hours, or go to the local pool (a few miles away) for the day without our parents giving it a second thought.
Times have changed - and so has society/people - there were still people with evil intentions back then, but it sure is more prevalent now.
This McD working mom does have other affordable (or sometimes free) options to use as a daycare/babysitter. Even the local YMCA's or Community Associations often provide FREE day programs in the summer.
I sure wouldn't let a kid that age do it alone today. The only cheap childcare option here is the Boys & Girls club but I don't think they're all that cheap everywhere. Most summer day camps run anywhere from $90-250 a WEEK.... $50/month is absolutely unheard of. And YMCA is not free... There camps are $150/WEEK here locally. Our local B&GC is NOT daycare and WILL NOT let you use them as such. They sign the kids in to keep an accurate count of how many people are using the facility but no one is required to sign out and they are free to come and go as they choose. And the only one I know of is 30 minutes in the opposite direction of my job. As is the closest YMCA and I know they charge, but don't know the amount.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 17, 2014 12:34:11 GMT -5
As Gira mentioned, every study by every reputable organization that studies this sort of thing says that yes, times HAVE changed - rates of violent crime and crimes against children are much lower than they were 20 years ago. This "the world is more dangerous than when we were kids" rhetoric is due to increased media coverage (if it bleeds, it leads) and is simply untrue. I also know of no $50/month camps, and I live in a LCOLA. The cheapest camps here are through Parks and Rec and are $100+ per week. Last night, I did some searching around for local, low cost camps. One camp was $36/day or $6/hour. Most were in the $600-700/mo realm. A few did say that there were grants to help defray some of the costs, but I'd guess that the parent would still need to cough up around $300/mo. That's not an inconsiderable amount and it is certainly not $50/mo.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2014 12:37:28 GMT -5
Those grants are often limited as well. At our YMCA, people can donate a week of camp and then they have so many weeks that can are in the scholarship pool. If you apply and they've all been given out, you're out of luck.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jul 18, 2014 9:37:49 GMT -5
Our local B&GC is NOT daycare and WILL NOT let you use them as such. They sign the kids in to keep an accurate count of how many people are using the facility but no one is required to sign out and they are free to come and go as they choose. And the only one I know of is 30 minutes in the opposite direction of my job. As is the closest YMCA and I know they charge, but don't know the amount. Our B&G Club runs a full time summer program. Mon-Fri 7:30-5:30. It was $140 for the entire summer for both boys. $80 for the first kid, $60 for the 2nd and I want to say $1 for each additional sibling. They have organized activities and field trips. Ours gets a lot of local grants and donations so the kids are able to do a lot of activities. Ours wasn't that organized last I checked, they are strictly just there for the kids to have somewhere to go. Maybe it's changed since then.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 18, 2014 9:45:53 GMT -5
From what I read ours doesn't have a full time summer program but I didn't actually call them I just browsed their web site.
You'd need a B&G close to you and one that offers that option. We've had a local B&G chapter for a few years now but before that the nearest B&G club was 35 minutes out of my way. My job is pretty flexible/forgiving but I doubt McD's is.
It's something to look into though that people probably don't automatically consider when thinking of child care. I think I might look into it further at our chapter, it'd be nice to have a secondary option available for summers.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 21, 2014 14:34:54 GMT -5
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jul 21, 2014 14:56:31 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree with this too. I remember when I was 8-13 or so, my cousins and I would hang out at my grandpa's house during summer vacation. We were allowed to walk to the strip mall where his barber shop was (about half a mile away, all sidewalks) but not to cross the highway. The ONE time we crossed the highway, my cousins' grandma's neighbor saw us in the median, called their grandma, who called my aunt, who called my mom, and we all got grounded. (Then we discovered that we could cross the highway by going through one of those giant concrete drainage culverts, but that's another thread). Now, I'm assuming grandma's neighbor would have called the police instead.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 21, 2014 14:57:49 GMT -5
I can't see removing a child from the home over this on a first offense but I do think an official warning would be in order, along with making Mom sign a statement to the effect of "if I do this again, I may lose custody of my child."
Unless you can clearly see the park from the restaurant, it seems like pretty common sense that leaving your child in a park unsupervised while you work for eight hours is not okay.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 21, 2014 15:04:51 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree with this too. I remember when I was 8-13 or so, my cousins and I would hang out at my grandpa's house during summer vacation. We were allowed to walk to the strip mall where his barber shop was (about half a mile away, all sidewalks) but not to cross the highway. The ONE time we crossed the highway, my cousins' grandma's neighbor saw us in the median, called their grandma, who called my aunt, who called my mom, and we all got grounded. (Then we discovered that we could cross the highway by going through one of those giant concrete drainage culverts, but that's another thread). Now, I'm assuming grandma's neighbor would have called the police instead. No, grandma's neighbor is at work. Or doesn't know or care that kids are crossing the highway. I assume that 99.8% of the kids I see crossing a road, highway or parking lot know what they're doing. I'd honk if they're being obnoxious as I drove past but that's about it - unless it's a young child. I'm forever surprised at the kids walking solo (grownup near) in parking lots instead of holding onto someone's hand. And I've heard comments from other parents when I'm getting the kids to hold hands or the cart at the grocery store. MY kids are staying within my reach in parking lots. Other people's mileage varies.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 15:09:03 GMT -5
I can't see removing a child from the home over this on a first offense but I do think an official warning would be in order, along with making Mom sign a statement to the effect of "if I do this again, I may lose custody of my child." Unless you can clearly see the park from the restaurant, it seems like pretty common sense that leaving your child in a park unsupervised while you work for eight hours is not okay. It was McDonalds, what are the odds she had more than a 4 hour shift unless she was a manager.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Jul 21, 2014 15:22:39 GMT -5
I can't see removing a child from the home over this on a first offense but I do think an official warning would be in order, along with making Mom sign a statement to the effect of "if I do this again, I may lose custody of my child." Unless you can clearly see the park from the restaurant, it seems like pretty common sense that leaving your child in a park unsupervised while you work for eight hours is not okay. It was McDonalds, what are the odds she had more than a 4 hour shift unless she was a manager. When I worked there all shifts were 6 hours or less, so that they didn't have to give us a lunch break and could get by with one 15-minute break in the middle. I think for a 4hr shift they don't even have to give a break at all.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 21, 2014 15:25:12 GMT -5
The odds that she would get knocked unconscious or break a bone aren't very high (how often does that actually happen?).
Depends on the kid. My mom was laughing yesterday as she recounted the dozens of accidents I had as a kid to my cousin. At various times, I smashed my head on the concrete, nearly suffocated, got electrocuted, had my appendix burst, etc. She didn't think they were so funny at the time but now they make good family anecdotes No way would I feel comfortable leaving my kid in the park to fend for herself at age nine, especially for that long. Maybe if she had a friend with her, but alone? Hell no. Way too much chance that she'll have an accident, get bored and wander off, her cell phone might die, etc. Again - I don't agree with the mom losing her kid or getting arrested over this on the first offense, but I think she was pretty clearly in the wrong. My toddler plays outside with the older neighborhood kids almost every night. I hang out and watch her play but I don't hover over her. So yes, you could make a case that "if she's going to get hurt, it'll happen whether I'm there or not." Certainly if she falls and bonks her head, I'm not going to necessarily be close enough to prevent that. The difference is that if I'm outside watching her, I can actually do something about it rather than relying on a group of (nice, but oblivious) young children to come find me. Similar principle with an older kid - you don't need to watch them as closely, sure (and no way would I be hanging out watching my kid play if she were nine years old) but you should still be close at hand (or have someone responsible you trust close at hand) in case of emergencies.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 21, 2014 15:29:34 GMT -5
It was McDonalds, what are the odds she had more than a 4 hour shift unless she was a manager.
I'd probably leave a nine year old home alone for four hours (probably have a neighbor on alert though) but I think that's too long to leave them in a park.
Sure, probably nothing dire will happen but it's a lot more likely they'll fall and break an arm playing at a park than at home watching Spongebob. More than that, nine year old kids get bored easily. I can't imagine a non-water park would be fun for them for hours on end, especially with no friends. I CAN imagine them taking off to wander around and get into trouble.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 21, 2014 15:33:29 GMT -5
I'd probably leave a nine year old home alone for four hours (probably have a neighbor on alert though) but I think that's too long to leave them in a park.
It mentions their home was broken into recently. That's when the laptop the child was using was stolen.
IDK the entire story but it sounds like this mom was in a bind as far as childcare. If the kid had been able to stay home as intended no one would have said a peep, but then again if something had happened to the kid the mother would be in the same position she is in right now.
So have the kid stay home and risk another home invasion, this time with her present OR let her hang out at the park instead.
In a perfect world she would have arranged proper childcare but unfortunately in a lot of areas child care is in short supply and extremely costly.
I'm not saying she was smart but she didn't deserve to have her kid taken away either. It punishes her but I don't think it does anything to address the issue of why did the mom feel like a park was her only child care option?
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jul 21, 2014 15:51:49 GMT -5
No doubt the mom was in a tough situation and I do feel for her. I already said I don't agree with her having the kid taken away. As this thread demonstrates, childcare is super expensive. If she's a single mom working at McD's, it's not like she's rolling in it.
I do have sympathy for her, I just don't like the idea of a nine year old alone at a park for hours on end. If their home is in a bad neighborhood, I doubt the park is much better. In some areas, she's the perfect age to be recruited into a gang.
Also, this is clearly a summer arrangement which makes me wonder what the mom did when her daughter was too young for school.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 21, 2014 15:56:31 GMT -5
I just don't like the idea of a nine year old alone at a park for hours on end. If their home is in a bad neighborhood, I doubt the park is much better
I don't think it is either, but then I don't live in a situation where I have to make those kinds of decisions.
It'd suck if our daycare closed tomorrow but we have family that could help till we found another daycare for Abigail and our jobs are flexible enough that we could on a temporary basis arrange it so DH and/or I can handle drop offs at school for Gwen. We can also afford to pay for another daycare.
My guess for when the kid was too young for school is either she had family nearby or maybe qualified for a daycare subsidy. I know the popular YM mantra is that poor people get "free" daycare but after reading the papers for my daycare and listening to the director talk that's not really the case, you still have to come up with a hefty chunk of change for your share if you're a McD worker. It also doesn't take much of an increase in income to bump you off.
Punishing her by taking away her kid makes people feel good and think that "justice" has been served. But IMO we'd be better off asking WHY and figuring out how to fix the mess that is childcare in this country, especially in poorer areas.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Jul 21, 2014 16:02:03 GMT -5
No no no, asking why means we have to get involved with "those" people, and once that happens we realize that they are just people who need help just like we do at times. Nope. Much easier to sit and judge from a distance and hand out harsh punishments. It's another example of the criminalization of poverty, IMO.
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