Mardi Gras Audrey
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Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on Jul 15, 2014 22:43:03 GMT -5
This is sad. If the kid was reasonably intelligent and the park is nearby, I don't see any issue with it. Presumably, mom was accessible via phone at McD's (either her cell or the McD's landline). I know back in the day when I was a kid (right after the earth cooled), my sibs and I were left alone while our parents worked. I remember being 9-10 and staying at home (DSM worked part-time, even in the summer when we were out of school). We would frequently leave the house and go around town (bike to the bowling alley, the community pool, the library, Walmart, etc). These places were ~1-5 miles away and we had to call DSM at work to ask but she never said no. We would just say "Can we go to XX?" and she would say yes if chores were done. This was before cell phones so probably more dangerous.
I remember at age 10 spending the whole day walking the town with my BFF. We would leave her house at like 10AM and come back at like 7PM (had to be back by sundown)...we didn't even say exactly where we going...just had a route so look for us along the way if you need us...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 22:54:42 GMT -5
This is sad. If the kid was reasonably intelligent and the park is nearby, I don't see any issue with it. Presumably, mom was accessible via phone at McD's (either her cell or the McD's landline). I know back in the day when I was a kid (right after the earth cooled), my sibs and I were left alone while our parents worked. I remember being 9-10 and staying at home (DSM worked part-time, even in the summer when we were out of school). We would frequently leave the house and go around town (bike to the bowling alley, the community pool, the library, Walmart, etc). These places were ~1-5 miles away and we had to call DSM at work to ask but she never said no. We would just say "Can we go to XX?" and she would say yes if chores were done. This was before cell phones so probably more dangerous. I remember at age 10 spending the whole day walking the town with my BFF. We would leave her house at like 10AM and come back at like 7PM (had to be back by sundown)...we didn't even say exactly where we going...just had a route so look for us along the way if you need us... I was the same way only I left the house on a pony! My best friend at the time was 5 miles away and I had to ride along the road and then on a logging trail that went up to the top of the hill and down a long gravel road that she lived on. I think it was normally 2.5 hours just to get there, although she sometimes met me halfway and we rode together on trails and through cut fields. This was long before cell phones and my Mom and aunt (whose house I was at over the summer) worked 20 miles away to boot. I wasn't doing that at 9 yet, but for sure by 11. The rule was just be home by dark. I actually wrote a paper for my freshman English class about my adventures on horseback over the summer as a young kid and it was published in the school literary magazine. I should find that...
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Jul 15, 2014 23:10:57 GMT -5
Seriously?? If mom is working her shift at McD's I doubt that she'd be allowed to check her phone except on breaks.
As for the 9 y/o left alone at the park to entertain herself, it only takes a minute for a child to get their swing going high enough they can fall off - and get a concussion - or knocked unconscious. It also only takes a few seconds to climb on the monkey-bars or get on a see-saw - and fall off resulting in injury/broken bones.
And it takes even LESS time for a stranger/pervert/child molester to snatch a child and disappear.
What good is that cell phone to the kid in any of these circumstances?
If the McD mom can afford a cell phone and monthly service fees to act as a child-care provider, she should be able to afford a mature teen or adult to look after her kid while she works her shift.
It's irresponsible as a parent.
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Mardi Gras Audrey
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Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on Jul 15, 2014 23:13:44 GMT -5
I feel for parents today. They get judged and arrested for everything. It is crazy, IMHO. If my parents were judged as today's parents were, they would have been arrested for child neglect many times.
I remember DSM leaving my younger sister and I alone to drop older DSB off at school. I would have been 4 and DS would have been 2. We were asleep that early and it was safer to leave use sleeping than to drag us out into a car for the 4 miles roundtrip to DSB's elementary school (Yes, leaving use sleeping was safer... The odds of being in a car accident have to be higher than the odds of anything happening in my bed). Today, that would be arrest.
They let us ride the city bus at age 7-8 (We moved to a city without a bus system at age 8 so it must have been that age or younger). We could also walk the 1/2 mile to the store for a coke and some candy.
Once we moved to the city without a bus system, we used bikes or walked around town (~50k people). Would just call mom and go.. sometimes stop by her work to say hi, if we were in the area. Otherwise, just wander around...
I guess we should all be dead.
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Mardi Gras Audrey
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Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on Jul 15, 2014 23:21:33 GMT -5
Seriously?? If mom is working her shift at McD's I doubt that she'd be allowed to check her phone except on breaks.
As for the 9 y/o left alone at the park to entertain herself, it only takes a minute for a child to get their swing going high enough they can fall off - and get a concussion - or knocked unconscious. It also only takes a few seconds to climb on the monkey-bars or get on a see-saw - and fall off resulting in injury/broken bones.
And it takes even LESS time for a stranger/pervert/child molester to snatch a child and disappear.
What good is that cell phone to the kid in any of these circumstances?
If the McD mom can afford a cell phone and monthly service fees to act as a child-care provider, she should be able to afford a mature teen or adult to look after her kid while she works her shift.
It's irresponsible as a parent.
Yes, seriously. Someone making minimum wage at McD's probably can check their phone whenever they want. I know when I worked in fast food, the requirements for "professional behavior" weren't very high. Hell, we had people who got stoned on the job and had sex on the clock and didn't get fired (as long as a customer didn't complain about it, they didn't care). A kid could get hurt anywhere, doing anything. The odds that she would get knocked unconscious or break a bone aren't very high (how often does that actually happen?). Even if it did, what's the difference if it happened while mom was at work or at home? If it happens when mom is at work, she could leave and get her, just like if it happens when she is at home... ETA: I'm guessing if the McD's was okay with her kid hanging out there all day, they would allow her to check her phone. What's more unprofessional- your family parked in the dining room or reading a text from your kid once a shift?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2014 1:55:42 GMT -5
Mom works at the Golden Arches. Maybe staying at the park is safer than being at home alone? Might live in a bad neighborhood.
I grew up in a suburban rural area. We spent the entire summer in the woods, climbing trees, hanging off things including rock ledges with long drops, building our own forts, climbing down a ravine. We were alone in the woods for hours upon hours. I am sure that would be an arrest offense now. I guess we had enough smarts not to annihilate ourselves or each other.
A pervert could grab her out of a booth in McDonalds just as easy as from the park. Will they put the child in foster care or a group home, where she is statistically more likely to be abused than at a park?
I think arrest and removal from this mother is way over the top. I assume this is a single parent with no family resources since the child is with CPS instead of being placed in the care of father or family member. CPS stepping in and redirecting the mother that the child can't be unsupervised at that distance from her would be appropriate. Now that they have arrested the mother, probably at work, she will lose her job and have no means of supporting her child at all. Unless she does a good show on Good Morning America and then becomes a Reality Show Star.
I hope her attorney sets up a fund for her. I'll donate towards her legal costs.
I might be a paranoid parent, but I will support the rights of other parents to have a different approach.
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Mardi Gras Audrey
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Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on Jul 16, 2014 2:43:31 GMT -5
I was doing a little ore thinking about this and I think a park is probably a better place for the child than a lot of the other alternatives. Most parks attract families, so the possibility that another mother or father would be around watching their children play is higher. This will help dissuade some of the pervos. Also, most parks I've seen don't have the playground right next to the parking lot. This means pervo would have to get out of his car to come get her. Again, better odds that he will run into previously mentioned mom/dad/grandma. Pervo isn't going to know that this girl isn't with the others.
If their house has already been broken into, it isn't a safer place. People that break into homes are doing it because they are criminals. While they may not be intending to kidnap/hurt a child, her presence in the kid could cause them to panic ("OMG, a witness") and hurt/kill her. Better to stick with the families at the park.
I grew up in the time of child abductions. I was a child in northern CA when kids like Jaycee Dugard, Amber Swartz-Garcia, Michaela Garecht, and Polly Klaas were taken. I think Michaela was the only one who was nowhere near home/mom&dad. Jaycee was taken in front of her stepfather, Polly was taken from her bedroom. Others have been taken from their homes, look at the Shasta/Dylan Groene case (Idaho), Jessica Lunford (FL), Danielle Van Dam (CA), Elizabeth Smart (UT). All from their bedrooms in the night... based on their cases, how safe is sleeping at home?
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 16, 2014 7:51:10 GMT -5
I know this website is likely to be biased.. www.freerangekids.com/crime-statistics/, but I really, really hope that places like the FBI, the Bureau of Justice and the folks at Pew Research are not doctoring the data which generally supports that we are safer now than we were 25 years ago. Personally, I'm more freaked about about what other parents will call me on than whether or not my kids will get hurt. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I know that I don't have the time to stick my nose in other people's business as much as others do in today's society. I'm kinda jealous and surprised at the large number of folks that live such easy/breezey lives that they can take on other issues, like what other people do in their bedrooms, how parents choose to parent, etc. ETA: I know for certain that my neighbors left their 11 and 9 year old boys at home for an hour or two while they ran. It would have NEVER dawned on me to call the cops and report them for child abuse, because the suggested age to be left home alone is 12. I also saw a few kids that were also under 12 walking around by themselves today. Is that what we are supposed to do now, follow the kids, and then call the cops because the parents aren't close by? I told DH about this while we were working in the kitchen last night. He was loudly vocal on people being busybodies and needing to mind their own business. I think some good points have been made here and know I'd like more information.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jul 16, 2014 7:53:19 GMT -5
Do you think if the mom was a white suburban soccer mom working at starbucks that she would have been arrested?
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 16, 2014 7:59:40 GMT -5
I might be a paranoid parent, but I will support the rights of other parents to have a different approach. Ditto. I'm also assuming someone's going to spring for a new laptop to replace the stolen one. My older sister and I talked about how different it is now from when we were kids. I was born in 1970. Summers were spent walking to the pool at the park, about a mile away and across US41, with my BFF. We'd be there all day. Our siblings were probably there too but we didn't see them (older than us and in the deeper part of the pool.) I think this started at the age of 6. I remember crossing against the lights once and by the time I got home, someone had seen me and called mom, who yelled at me.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 16, 2014 8:00:52 GMT -5
Do you think if the mom was a white suburban soccer mom working at starbucks that she would have been arrested? Sadly, no. I think she'd have been counseled about not leaving the kid like that and the file would effectively be closed.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2014 8:02:29 GMT -5
I just don't get the arresting her part. How is that going to help? She works at flipping McDonalds. It's not like you can afford daycare on those wages and 9 isn't a toddler roaming the park.
I wonder if there is more to the story.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 16, 2014 8:10:21 GMT -5
There almost has to be more.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 16, 2014 8:17:09 GMT -5
Most states have no specific laws on how old a child has to be to be alone. According to this list South Carolina is 8. State Minimum Age Reference Alabama None Alabama Babysitting Laws Alaska Unknown No Resource Found Arizona None Arizona Department of Economic Security Arkansas None Definitions of Child Abuse and Neglect – Arkansas California Unknown No Resource Found Colorado 12* Colorado Department of Human Services Connecticut None State of Connecticut Attorney General’s Office Delaware 12* Delaware Division of Family Services Florida None Florida Eighth Judicial Circuit Family Court FAQ Georgia 8* Georgia Division of Family & Children Services Hawaii None Hawaii Department Of The Attorney General Idaho None Idaho Department of Health & Welfare Illinois 14 University of Illinois Child Care Resource Service Indiana None No Laws Govern Leaving Children Alone Iowa None Iowa Department Of Human Services Kansas 12* Kansas Health & Environment Kentucky None LAW & JUSTICE Children at Home Alone Nov, 2003 Louisiana None Louisiana Department of Social Services Maine None Maine Kids & Kin Maryland 8 Maryland Family Law Massachusetts None Massachusetts Trial Court Law Libraries Michigan None Calhoun County Courts Minnesota None Minnesota Dakota County Attorney’s Office Mississippi None Mississippi Coalition Against Domestic Violence Missouri None KRCG Latch-key limbo An Education Report 2006 Montana None Montana Child & Family Services Nebraska 11* Midwest Child Care Association Nevada Unknown No Resource Found New Hampshire None State Of New Hampshire Attorney General New Jersey None NJ Department of Human Services New Mexico None VogueSeattle.com Lawyer Answers New York None New York Children & Family Services North Carolina 8 NC Health & Human Services North Dakota 9* North Dakota CSCC (Kid’s Council) Ohio None The Cleveland Law: Home Alone Children Oklahoma None Lawton PD – Guide For Working Parents Oregon 10 City of Albany, Oregon FAQ Pennsylvania None Pittsburg Post-Gazette.com article June, 2007 Rhode Island Unknown No Resource Found South Carolina 8* NBC Augusta.com South Dakota None South Dakota Cooperative Extension Service Tennessee 10* Tennessee Juvenile & Family Court Judges Texas None Texas Family & Protective Services Utah None Children’s Service Society of Utah Vermont Unknown No Resource Found Virginia None Virginia Coalition for Child Abuse Prevention Washington 10* Child Care Resources West Virginia Unknown No Resource Found Wisconsin 12* Prevent Child Abuse Wisconsin Wyoming 12* Wyoming Child Protective Services www.imom.com/home-alone-rules-state/I LOOOOVE my state - we pretty much have no rules at all LOL No seat belt laws for adults either.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jul 16, 2014 8:30:39 GMT -5
Seriously?? If mom is working her shift at McD's I doubt that she'd be allowed to check her phone except on breaks.
As for the 9 y/o left alone at the park to entertain herself, it only takes a minute for a child to get their swing going high enough they can fall off - and get a concussion - or knocked unconscious. It also only takes a few seconds to climb on the monkey-bars or get on a see-saw - and fall off resulting in injury/broken bones.
And it takes even LESS time for a stranger/pervert/child molester to snatch a child and disappear.
What good is that cell phone to the kid in any of these circumstances?
If the McD mom can afford a cell phone and monthly service fees to act as a child-care provider, she should be able to afford a mature teen or adult to look after her kid while she works her shift.
It's irresponsible as a parent.
Well, my cell phone bill is about $100 per month for two smartphones, unlimited calling and messaging, etc. If you know of a childcare provider who will work for $100 per month, please let me know. If so, I am a sucker for paying almost $1000 per month. And if that was referring to having a teenager watch the girl, I'm not sure how effective a teen would be in these situations you described.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2014 8:37:30 GMT -5
Yeah, I was kind of wondering what cell phone rates were everywhere else that daycare was cheaper. My son has a tracfone that costs me about $7/month. Come Christmas he'll be upgrading to his Dad's old iphone and that bill will jump to a whopping $20/month.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 16, 2014 8:38:54 GMT -5
I pay $39 a month for my cell phone. If somebody can find reputable good child care for $39 a month PLEASE let me know.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 16, 2014 8:40:00 GMT -5
Do you think if the mom was a white suburban soccer mom working at starbucks that she would have been arrested? Actually, I do. I also think the outrage would have been even worse. I think the fact that the little girl did not run to where her mom worked when being questioned by strangers is also indicative of the fact that she was way too young to be unsupervised.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 16, 2014 8:48:41 GMT -5
I never did. I think the article stated that parents questioned her then called police. I could be wrong. Then the police were called. Fact is, she could have run to mom and didn't when being bothered by strangers. That's enough to scare me. I'd have never done that anyway but my kids knew to talk to no one but someone who had eaten dinner at our table. Those were NOT strangers.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jul 16, 2014 9:00:11 GMT -5
The odds that she would get knocked unconscious or break a bone aren't very high (how often does that actually happen?).
Judging by the number of kids I remember having to go to the nurse's office during recess I'd say probably more often than you'd think. My sister broke her arm in 4 places (2 places per bone) when she jumped off a swing at the age of 8. Neighbor kid broke his arm when he decided to go down the slide face first and landed wrong at the bottom. Another neighbor kid has dentures for his front teeth because they got knocked out on the playground. Hell I have a gold tooth and a scare of my face from when I accidently walked behind a kid swinging a golf club when I was a kid. I also broke an arm when we were playing softball and a girl backed up and swung late at the ball (after is was in my glove) and hit my arm. All of the incident above happened in the span of one summer.
I'm not saying she was right or wrong. Personally I don't think I would have been comfortable with that but I did start letting DS go home alone after school when he was 10. We lived two blocks from school and he didn't have to cross any streets. He was home for about an hour before I got home from work. He'd go home, re-lock the front door, call me and let the dog out into the fenced back yard, have the snack I left for him and start his homework.
However- I didn't let him go to the park alone- especially on the weekends. The one in our neighborhood was the nicest, newest one in town and it had a fancy water playground. It would bring hundreds of people from all over to the park every weekend. Many fights between families over who got there first to "save" a spot for a party. DS would be home before the junior high let out but that park is where they'd go after school to settle their beefs. Big race problem between the black kids and the Hispanic kids.
So no- that park was shiny and new and near my house but I never let him go there alone.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jul 16, 2014 9:05:32 GMT -5
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jul 16, 2014 9:08:56 GMT -5
If the McD mom can afford a cell phone and monthly service fees to act as a child-care provider, she should be able to afford a mature teen or adult to look after her kid while she works her shift.
Have you tried to find mature teens to baby-sit recently? I have 10 clients that are in high school, that would totally be appropriate to baby sit my kids. None of these kids have jobs during the school year. However they are busy with sports (football is 12-15 hour commitment week, and that's EXCLUDING games and the warm up before the game), rocket club, history club, science club, music, etc on top of taking as many AP/advanced classes as they can. I actually worry for those kids, sincerely hoping that they don't burn out before college. One of my kids is a HS junior. She's doing research in epigenetics at our state flagship university. The program she is with is also teaching her how to begin to write scientific papers (for submission) and how to create and present posters for conferences. One client, out of the ten, has babysitted for us. She was a little less busy-not doing sports. And, before you suggest the college crowd, in my parts, you pay a college student $10-12 an hour to watch one child. So, I'm wondering if the woman working at McD's is only commanding $8/hour gross, where's she supposed to get the short fall to pay her baby sitter from?
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jul 16, 2014 9:12:57 GMT -5
Do you think if the mom was a white suburban soccer mom working at starbucks that she would have been arrested? Actually, I do. I also think the outrage would have been even worse. I think the fact that the little girl did not run to where her mom worked when being questioned by strangers is also indicative of the fact that she was way too young to be unsupervised. Maybe the girls radar didn't go off? We don't teach our kids that every person they meet is going to harm them or to be afraid of every person that approaches us. We do teach our kids to listen to the hairs on the back of their neck. Which, DS, actually did recently when some kids wanted to "borrow" his bike. He high-taled it home because he was uncomfortable.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 16, 2014 9:30:17 GMT -5
Wow. I used to go to the park alone when I was 7, or I'd go with my sister, who was 6. It was about 5-6 blocks away from our house. Apparently I went to the park completely in the buff at one point... but such is another story. Granted, we lived in a nice suburban neighbourhood in western Canada at the time. I don't know how that stacks up against this incident. A lot would depend on what the neighbourhood was like. Is it the kind of place where you're just asking for trouble by letting a child go unattended?
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jul 16, 2014 9:36:03 GMT -5
A lot would depend on what the neighbourhood was like
Where we lived in CA I wouldn't have let him go to the park by himself. In the city we currently live in I'd have no problems letting him go to the park to meet up with his friends.
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Jul 16, 2014 9:45:32 GMT -5
That's a tough situation. I guess if you are working, then what are you supposed to do with your kid if you have nobody to help out. If this was a thing where their daycare fell through and they were just making it work for a week, I guess it might not be as bad as it looks. I think I was in 6th/7th grade before I really started venturing outside my little neighborhood without my parents.
Poor people have it rough. Work and get criticized for neglecting your kids. Don't work and get criticized for being on food stamps.
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The Home 6
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Post by The Home 6 on Jul 16, 2014 10:33:51 GMT -5
Wow, I was being left at home way before 11 years old, but that's when I was sick and couldn't get up to shenanigans. I could always call Grandma if something REALLY went wrong (she was only 5 miles away). But we lived out in the country. This post has its own set of rules about kids being supervised, either in the house or out at a park. Even in a car! Kids over 7 can play outside unattended with access to adult assistance. I would assume this means that I can send my older one to play at the park behind our house by herself, just leave the back gate open so she can run inside. (I don't do this, by the way). And kids over 7 can be left in a car unattended except in temperatures over 98 degrees, as long as you remove the keys and apply the E-brake. Kids have to be 10 before they can be left by themselves at home for 2 hours or less.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 16, 2014 10:34:58 GMT -5
Not run away screaming but not answering questions and leaving the area would be appropriate response to strangers questioning you.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Jul 16, 2014 10:48:09 GMT -5
I think there were laws about drinking and driving but cops would just pull you over and take your keys and you home. Now it's different. Don't know where MM grew up, but at least one state (MT) allowed drinking and driving as late as the early 1980's. And may still allow such practices today. DUI, however, was not allowed.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 16, 2014 11:19:40 GMT -5
Isn't it Texas where you can open carry? But you still can't be drunk.
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