Parent Arrested for Letting Daughter go to park alone.

[cael]

I can remember when I was 9-10ish occasionally going to work with my dad when I was sick... he'd give me tylenol and prop me up at a computer to practice my typing, which I loved (on one of those old text-only DOS computers!), but by the time I was 11-12 they'd just leave me home if I was sick and they had to work. I stayed home alone with my brother starting probably when I was 11 or so (he's 3yrs younger than me).

We grew up in a (nice) apartment complex so we had a park, pool, and the rest of the area to roam in, and we hung out/roamed/played with a pack of other kids. Once I hit 12-13 groups of us would walk up the street to Sunoco for a soda sometimes, but that wasn't even a quarter mile away. It was actually a nice environment to grow up in... as long as we didn't leave the complex we could go wherever and no one's parents would be upset. Once I became a teenager that changed and we'd walk around sometimes, but there wasn't much else around - the other kids were all boys and all younger than me (about my brother's age), so I guess no one cared their kids were with me? lol.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

As kids in SC can be left alone when they are 8, it seems to me that the police overstepped their bounds here.  This child was at least out playing, not stuck at home watching a screen all day.  Had the mother left her at home (which she legally could have done), they never would have known.

I'd be curious to know the race of this family.....because I'll bet that that has something to do with it too.

[Wisconsin Beth]

And then there's this

The Psychological Shortcoming That Can Help Explain Why We’re Arresting Innocent Moms

www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/07/16/debra_harrell_is_the_fundamental_attribution_error_to_blame_for_her_arrest.html

This article originally appeared in Science of Us.

Generally speaking, when you're trying to understand a news event through a behavioral-science lens, it's not a good idea to bold up, loudly invoke some psychological buzzword, and then drop the mike as though your work is done. People are complicated, and their actions can rarely be boiled down to any one mechanism. But still, as I've read Jonathan Chait's and Radley Balko's recent articles about parents being arrested for letting their kids play outside without supervision, one such buzzword has repeatedly popped into my head: the fundamental attribution error.

To review the case Chait highlighted: Debra Harrell of North Augusta, South Carolina, had been bringing her daughter to her (the mom's) job at McDonald's every day, where she would sit with her laptop. After the family's house was robbed and the laptop stolen, the girl asked to be dropped off at a playground for the day. Another parent called police, and Harrell was arrested for unlawful conduct toward a child.

So what is the fundamental attribution error, and how does it apply here? It's simply the tendency to believe people's actions are driven by some fundamental aspect of their character rather than situational factors. In this case, as Chait rightly points out, it's clear this mom didn't have a lot of other options with regard to child care, and she figured her daughter would be safe at what is apparently a well-populated park. In short, it appears she had a pretty good reason to leave her daughter there while she was at work (especially because, despite widespread hysteria over strangers snatching children randomly, such cases are exceedingly rare).

[ArchietheDragon]

Jul 16, 2014 12:54:22 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

As kids in SC can be left alone when they are 8, it seems to me that the police overstepped their bounds here.  This child was at least out playing, not stuck at home watching a screen all day.  Had the mother left her at home (which she legally could have done), they never would have known.

I'd be curious to know the race of this family.....because I'll bet that that has something to do with it too.

They are of the Negroid race.  

[Deleted]

Jul 16, 2014 9:45:32 GMT -5 Ryan said:

That's a tough situation.  I guess if you are working, then what are you supposed to do with your kid if you have nobody to help out.  If this was a thing where their daycare fell through and they were just making it work for a week, I guess it might not be as bad as it looks.  I think I was in 6th/7th grade before I really started venturing outside my little neighborhood without my parents.  

Poor people have it rough.  Work and get criticized for neglecting your kids.  Don't work and get criticized for being on food stamps.  

I agree, poor people often have to make some tough choices. If she's working at McDonalds, I doubt she's rolling in dough. Trying to figure out what to do with her child while she worked was likely tough for her, especially since as someone mentioned, her home had been burglarized recently. I don't envy her position as presented in this thread. Sometimes in life you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

[alabamagal]

I saw this on the news this morning.  There was also a story about a guy arrested because he put his kid (pre-teen?) on a bus to go to church, the kid took the bus to church and then skipped out of church, and the dad was arrested.

A few minutes later there was a story about a "hero" 3 year old who saved an old man locked in his car.  The old man got trapped with automatic locks and could not get out.  He started banging on the window and a 3-year old (not related to him) saw him and went and got help.  So was this 3-year old out by himself where there were no adults  So this kid is a hero (not arguing with that) but his parents must have been away from him when he saw the old guy in the car.


abcnews.go.com/US/tennessee-toddler-saves-elderly-man-locked-inside-hot/story?id=24564932

[HoneyBBQ]

Jul 15, 2014 17:41:41 GMT -5 @southernsusana said:

A lot of people kids this age at the public library to get a few hours of babysitting.     My mom's dates used to "treat" my sister and me to double-features.

At my library kids can't be there unattended.

I don't think the issue was that the child was at the park unattended. It's that she was there all day every day. A park doesn't substitute supervision.

That said, I feel for the mom. Obviously she doesn't have a lot of help or money. Reminds me of the lady who left her kids in the car for her job interview.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Jul 16, 2014 13:34:16 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

I saw this on the news this morning.  There was also a story about a guy arrested because he put his kid (pre-teen?) on a bus to go to church, the kid took the bus to church and then skipped out of church, and the dad was arrested.

A few minutes later there was a story about a "hero" 3 year old who saved an old man locked in his car.  The old man got trapped with automatic locks and could not get out.  He started banging on the window and a 3-year old (not related to him) saw him and went and got help.  So was this 3-year old out by himself where there were no adults  So this kid is a hero (not arguing with that) but his parents must have been away from him when he saw the old guy in the car.


abcnews.go.com/US/tennessee-toddler-saves-elderly-man-locked-inside-hot/story?id=24564932

Interesting.  Sounds like it was some kind of outdoor thing and the kid was wandering around in or near a parking lot.  Without a parent in sight as he ended up getting the pastor. 

[Deleted]

I don't see the difference of Mom being home and letting the kid go to the park, or at work and letting her go to the park. The kid goes to the workplace instead of home. Are they saying the kid can't go to the park alone at all? Stupid arrest as far as I'm concerned.

[Virgil Showlion]

I've heard of at least one case where a mother had her children taken away when she left them in a car to walk into a dry cleaner. The weather was cool, one of the windows was cracked, and the mother had a view of the car from inside the store. The children were asleep. Still, somebody in their infinite wisdom decided to call the authorities, and the authorities in their infinite wisdom took custody of her children. I don't know if she was charged with child endangerment, and I can't find the article about it.

A more general article about false experts consenting to "legal child abductions" in the UK is here.

[zibazinski]

All it's going to take is for one nosey do-gooder to get her ass sued by someone whose life she butted into and this shit, hopefully, will stop. 

[Virgil Showlion]

Jul 16, 2014 16:57:46 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

All it's going to take is for one nosey do-gooder to get her ass sued by someone whose life she butted into and this shit, hopefully, will stop. 

Reporting is anonymous.

I'm reluctant to get on the "hang Social Services" bandwagon since there are a lot of unfit parents out there.

However, stories like this one, the dry cleaning one, and the few mentioned by the Mail Online article do force one to wonder whether such agencies use their resources efficiently. Do they simply take a shotgun to any family that's reported (not unlike a certain message board company), or do they actually take time to consider the circumstances?

The other thing we can't forget is that agencies are made up of individuals. It's certainly possible to have a good agency with a handful of incompetent agents.

[zibazinski]

No, it actually isn't. Which is why some people stopped. But some people just can't stop putting out their judgmental self righteous BS on others and I hope karma bites them in the ass big time.

[Deleted]

Jul 16, 2014 13:46:47 GMT -5 HoneyBBQ said:

Jul 15, 2014 17:41:41 GMT -5 @southernsusana said:

A lot of people kids this age at the public library to get a few hours of babysitting.     My mom's dates used to "treat" my sister and me to double-features.

At my library kids can't be there unattended.

I don't think the issue was that the child was at the park unattended. It's that she was there all day every day. A park doesn't substitute supervision.

That said, I feel for the mom. Obviously she doesn't have a lot of help or money. Reminds me of the lady who left her kids in the car for her job interview.

You are saying that at your library, kids that are 11 or 12 have to have a parent with them? Your library must be nothing like our library if they can enforce that. The tween/teen section is the most popular section, and you never see adults hanging out in there. It's got tables and sofas and listening stations, etc.

ETA:  I guess you mean 9-year-olds, but that still would be hard to enforce if they were hanging out in the tween/teen section.  They don't exactly have IDs.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Well, my cell phone bill is about $100 per month for two smartphones, unlimited calling and messaging, etc.

If you know of a childcare provider who will work for $100 per month, please let me know. If so, I am a sucker for paying almost $1000 per month.

Ok, here's another (inexpensive solution).

The 9 year old is mostly in school for 7-8 hrs a day during school semester - so I have to conclude that McD working mom left her kid in the park during summer break (and her on day-shift).

For $50/Mo (or less) - you can register your kid in day-camp where adult supervision and supervised activities are provided for your child during the 7-8 weeks of summer the kid isn't in school during the day. Cheaper than the monthly cost of TWO cells.

Isn't that a much safer (and inexpensive) solution to keeping your kid safe/protected while you work your McD shift, than leaving the kid alone for hours on end at a nearby park to keep her self entertained with nothing but a cell-phone in case of emergency or danger?? Kids get bored - they wander off - they're very trusting of adults (ANY adult).

Yes, back in the dark ages when I was a kid we could ride our bikes for miles or for hours, or go to the local pool (a few miles away) for the day without our parents giving it a second thought.

Times have changed - and so has society/people - there were still people with evil intentions back then, but it sure is more prevalent now.

This McD working mom does have other affordable (or sometimes free) options to use as a daycare/babysitter. Even the local YMCA's or Community Associations often provide FREE day programs in the summer.

I sure wouldn't let a kid that age do it alone today.

[Deleted]

Jul 16, 2014 19:29:37 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

Well, my cell phone bill is about $100 per month for two smartphones, unlimited calling and messaging, etc.

If you know of a childcare provider who will work for $100 per month, please let me know. If so, I am a sucker for paying almost $1000 per month.

Ok, here's another (inexpensive solution).

The 9 year old is mostly in school for 7-8 hrs a day during school semester - so I have to conclude that McD working mom left her kid in the park during summer break (and her on day-shift).

For $50/Mo (or less) - you can register your kid in day-camp where adult supervision and supervised activities are provided for your child during the 7-8 weeks of summer the kid isn't in school during the day. Cheaper than the monthly cost of TWO cells.

Isn't that a much safer (and inexpensive) solution to keeping your kid safe/protected while you work your McD shift, than leaving the kid alone for hours on end at a nearby park to keep her self entertained with nothing but a cell-phone in case of emergency or danger?? Kids get bored - they wander off - they're very trusting of adults (ANY adult).

Yes, back in the dark ages when I was a kid we could ride our bikes for miles or for hours, or go to the local pool (a few miles away) for the day without our parents giving it a second thought.

Times have changed - and so has society/people - there were still people with evil intentions back then, but it sure is more prevalent now.

This McD working mom does have other affordable (or sometimes free) options to use as a daycare/babysitter. Even the local YMCA's or Community Associations often provide FREE day programs in the summer.

I sure wouldn't let a kid that age do it alone today.

where can you find daycamp for $50 a month?  10 years ago I paid $500 a week for 3 kids for daycamp.

[zibazinski]

R Club.

[Deleted]

Jul 16, 2014 19:59:58 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

R Club.

what is R Club?

[zibazinski]

Well, it used to be just for ghetto kids but its gone mainstream. I put DD in it one summer we all spent in Salem. Located at various elementary school. They even did field trips as well as feeding them lunch. It was free. 

[Deleted]

Jul 16, 2014 20:03:28 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Well, it used to be just for ghetto kids but its gone mainstream. I put DD in it one summer we all spent in Salem. Located at various elementary school. They even did field trips as well as feeding them lunch. It was free. 

DS1 and DS2 did a summer at the elementary school program....that was still over $200 a week.  I would think anything free would have income guidelines and would have a huge waiting list.  plus mom works at McD - I'm sure her schedule varies. 

[zibazinski]

I didn't work that summer. It was before divorce. I paid nothing. Zip. 

[Deleted]

Jul 16, 2014 20:07:00 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

I didn't work that summer. It was before divorce. I paid nothing. Zip. 

and that's great....you had that in your area....so was it free for everyone?  were there limits on how many they could take?  good god, the $200+ a week summer camps near me fill up and have waiting lists.

[zibazinski]

It actually wasnt in my area. I was visiting my west coast family deciding about a divorce. I found out about it because my moms employee had her son in it for the summer. 

[midjd]

As Gira mentioned, every study by every reputable organization that studies this sort of thing says that yes, times HAVE changed - rates of violent crime and crimes against children are much lower than they were 20 years ago.

This "the world is more dangerous than when we were kids" rhetoric is due to increased media coverage (if it bleeds, it leads) and is simply untrue.

I also know of no $50/month camps, and I live in a LCOLA. The cheapest camps here are through Parks and Rec and are $100+ per week.

[zibazinski]

This was many years ago obviously. No clue if they even exist anymore. I'm surprised though because in Clearwater there was all kinds of stuff for kids, especially minorities. Free or damn close.

[zibazinski]

R Clubs still exist. Google it. They aren't everywhere I suppose. I'd never heard of them but she had a blast.

[Deleted]

Jul 16, 2014 20:16:27 GMT -5 midjd said:

As Gira mentioned, every study by every reputable organization that studies this sort of thing says that yes, times HAVE changed - rates of violent crime and crimes against children are much lower than they were 20 years ago.

Is this because we are more protective today? 

[giramomma]

Jul 16, 2014 20:25:57 GMT -5 oped said:

Jul 16, 2014 20:16:27 GMT -5 midjd said:

As Gira mentioned, every study by every reputable organization that studies this sort of thing says that yes, times HAVE changed - rates of violent crime and crimes against children are much lower than they were 20 years ago.

Is this because we are more protective today? 

One article from the Christian Science Monitor lists these as the reasons

Increased incarceration, including longer sentences, that keeps more criminals off the streets.
Improved law enforcement strategies, including advances in computer analysis and innovative technology.
The waning of the crack cocaine epidemic that soared from 1984 to 1990, which made cocaine cheaply available in cities across the US.
The graying of America characterized by the fastest-growing segment of the US population – baby boomers – passing the age of 50.

www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2012/0109/US-crime-rate-at-lowest-point-in-decades.-Why-America-is-safer-now

I also find it interesting doing searches that people say cars are the number 1 killer of kids. I don't really see people deciding that they won't drive their kids around so their kids stay out of harms way. I wonder why, as a society, we don't demonize cars like we demonize letting kids roam?

[Deleted]

Jul 16, 2014 19:29:37 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

For $50/Mo (or less) - you can register your kid in day-camp where adult supervision and supervised activities are provided for your child during the 7-8 weeks of summer the kid isn't in school during the day. Cheaper than the monthly cost of TWO cells.

Isn't that a much safer (and inexpensive) solution to keeping your kid safe/protected while you work your McD shift, than leaving the kid alone for hours on end at a nearby park to keep her self entertained with nothing but a cell-phone in case of emergency or danger?? Kids get bored - they wander off - they're very trusting of adults (ANY adult).

What facility has $50/mo for day camp? Even the church summer camps are $250-300 per WEEK here. Maybe her area is cheaper, but not $50/month cheap. That is the registration fee for YMCA camp, not the attendance fee. Attendance at day camp is $260/week at YMCA for the cheapest program in my area.

40 hours a week at McD's minimum wage would not even net you enough to pay for daycare.

[Deleted]

Our community center camp is highly subsidized and charges 75$ a week. It is easily the least expensive camp by half in the area.