Wisconsin Beth
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No, we don't walk away. But when we're holding on to something precious, we run.
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 15, 2014 15:06:35 GMT -5
www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/07/15/debra_harrell_arrested_for_letting_her_9_year_old_daughter_go_to_the_park.htmlDebra Harrell, 46, let her 9-year-old daughter play outside alone at the park. The South Carolina child had a cell phone she could use to call her mother in case of emergency. On the girl’s third day alone at the park, someone asked her where her mother was. The girl said her mom was at work (Harrell works at McDonald’s, and didn’t want her daughter to have to sit inside the restaurant for hours on a beautiful summer day.) The result? Harrell was arrested for “unlawful conduct towards a child” and put in jail; her daughter is now in the custody of the department of social services.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 15:08:01 GMT -5
WTF?
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 15, 2014 15:10:25 GMT -5
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Peace Of Mind
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[font color="#8f2520"]~ Drinks Well With Others ~[/font]
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jul 15, 2014 15:10:54 GMT -5
That was my first reaction too but then I realized it was about both situations. A mom allowing a 9 year old home alone and/or at a park AND mom getting arrested because of it. So I'm going with they are all idiots. Why wasn't there a warning first? The 9 year old wasn't in a hot car. What age are children allowed to be home alone? I can remember babysitting at 12 years old. I baby sat for strangers (literally - they never met me before but allowed me to watch their newborn - talk about WTF?!) and my 2 younger brothers (even though there were 2 older brothers I had to be the responsible one of them).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 15:24:29 GMT -5
Wow I went to the park alone at 9. I also rode my bike everywhere and that was before cell phones. I walked to and from school. At what age are we allowed to let them out unsupervised?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 15, 2014 15:25:14 GMT -5
9 is too young to be unsupervised for hours. So she had a cell phone? That's not enough for safety.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 15:26:46 GMT -5
I would be ok with letting a 9yo walk down the street to play in the neighborhood park. I don't know about a 9yo being left to hang out in the park as a child-care solution while Mom works.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 15:27:49 GMT -5
9 is too young to be unsupervised for hours. So she had a cell phone? That's not enough for safety. What is the age then?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 15:28:59 GMT -5
Still, unless there was a prior file, I can't see this bring a removable offense...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 15:30:21 GMT -5
I would be ok with letting a 9yo walk down the street to play in the neighborhood park. I don't know about a 9yo being left to hang out in the park as a child-care solution while Mom works. My son was biking the neighborhood (at his Dad's, I'm in the country) and going to the park alone at that age, but it's not a great childcare solution. If it's only a few hours I could see letting her stay home before just leaving her in a park.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 15:30:36 GMT -5
11-12, I'd say. Although, honestly, that's for all day alone. I probably still wouldn't want them running the neighborhood all day long at that age.
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lexxy703
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Post by lexxy703 on Jul 15, 2014 15:53:48 GMT -5
Wow things sure have changed since the 70s I grew up in. My brother & I were latch key kids at avery young age. We were unsupervised for 8 hrs a day all summer long.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 15:55:59 GMT -5
Most states have no specific laws on how old a child has to be to be alone. According to this list South Carolina is 8. State Minimum Age Reference Alabama None Alabama Babysitting Laws Alaska Unknown No Resource Found Arizona None Arizona Department of Economic Security Arkansas None Definitions of Child Abuse and Neglect – Arkansas California Unknown No Resource Found Colorado 12* Colorado Department of Human Services Connecticut None State of Connecticut Attorney General’s Office Delaware 12* Delaware Division of Family Services Florida None Florida Eighth Judicial Circuit Family Court FAQ Georgia 8* Georgia Division of Family & Children Services Hawaii None Hawaii Department Of The Attorney General Idaho None Idaho Department of Health & Welfare Illinois 14 University of Illinois Child Care Resource Service Indiana None No Laws Govern Leaving Children Alone Iowa None Iowa Department Of Human Services Kansas 12* Kansas Health & Environment Kentucky None LAW & JUSTICE Children at Home Alone Nov, 2003 Louisiana None Louisiana Department of Social Services Maine None Maine Kids & Kin Maryland 8 Maryland Family Law Massachusetts None Massachusetts Trial Court Law Libraries Michigan None Calhoun County Courts Minnesota None Minnesota Dakota County Attorney’s Office Mississippi None Mississippi Coalition Against Domestic Violence Missouri None KRCG Latch-key limbo An Education Report 2006 Montana None Montana Child & Family Services Nebraska 11* Midwest Child Care Association Nevada Unknown No Resource Found New Hampshire None State Of New Hampshire Attorney General New Jersey None NJ Department of Human Services New Mexico None VogueSeattle.com Lawyer Answers New York None New York Children & Family Services North Carolina 8 NC Health & Human Services North Dakota 9* North Dakota CSCC (Kid’s Council) Ohio None The Cleveland Law: Home Alone Children Oklahoma None Lawton PD – Guide For Working Parents Oregon 10 City of Albany, Oregon FAQ Pennsylvania None Pittsburg Post-Gazette.com article June, 2007 Rhode Island Unknown No Resource Found South Carolina 8* NBC Augusta.com South Dakota None South Dakota Cooperative Extension Service Tennessee 10* Tennessee Juvenile & Family Court Judges Texas None Texas Family & Protective Services Utah None Children’s Service Society of Utah Vermont Unknown No Resource Found Virginia None Virginia Coalition for Child Abuse Prevention Washington 10* Child Care Resources West Virginia Unknown No Resource Found Wisconsin 12* Prevent Child Abuse Wisconsin Wyoming 12* Wyoming Child Protective Services www.imom.com/home-alone-rules-state/
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 15, 2014 15:56:10 GMT -5
Things have changed. This is very true.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 16:01:23 GMT -5
Wow things sure have changed since the 70s I grew up in. My brother & I were latch key kids at avery young age. We were unsupervised for 8 hrs a day all summer long. I was born in the 70's and I was a latch key kids sometimes too. I think that's a bit different from being left in the park alone for hours while Mom worked. Bad things can happen whether a kid is home alone or in a park alone, but leaving a 9yo in a park for hours while you work bothers me more than leaving them home. FWIW, I didn't leave my 9yo kids anywhere unsupervised for hours while I worked. I had a Dennis the Menace and he needed adult supervision.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 15, 2014 16:06:10 GMT -5
Well, if 8 is the legal age then she's not breaking any law.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 16:21:43 GMT -5
Being left alone at that age for a work shift which would be most lkely no less than 6 hours probably falls under child abandonment. I'm curious how far away the park is from where mom works? According to what I read (not sure if it's this same article), it is very close to the McDonald's where her mother works. She would go and have lunch with her mom. Before, she was sitting in McDonald's while her mom worked, playing on their laptop. But the laptop got stolen, and she begged her mom to let her go to the park instead of just sitting in McDonald's.
My sister and I were latchkey kids from the time I was seven years old. My sister was 11. But lots of times I was home by myself. My mom was a waitress in a bar, and she usually took us to the bar with her and put us at a table to sit during her shift. I'm guessing this was summers. I last lived with my mother when I was eight (father died when I was five) so that gives you an idea how young we were.
My sister and I even stayed "home" alone for two or three days because the cousin who was our guardian took his family on vacation. Normally, we would have gone, too, but an aunt on the other side of the family was coming to get us to "visit" (i.e., live with them). I was 9, and my sister was 14.
Can you imagine any of that happening now? But no one thought twice about it. And nothing happened.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jul 15, 2014 16:26:59 GMT -5
Well, if 8 is the legal age then she's not breaking any law. Reading the site it sounds like those are the laws in terms of being left home alone. That's probably not considered the same as having your child wander around outside the home unsupervised for long periods of time. I assume it's also not necessarily the same thing as "my child is riding her bike from home to school then back again". This is like a child roaming free for hours while mom is otherwise occupied at work. To me, her actions seem pretty outrageous frankly. There is a big difference in my mind between someone who lets their kid go play at the park for an hour, and someone who is working and sends their kid to go play in the park while they are doing so (and presumably for more than an hour and essentially using the park as their daily childcare).
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 15, 2014 16:29:08 GMT -5
I agree she was wrong but I don't think she broke any law other than getting caught with her kid at the park. If the kid was dumb enough to talk to strange people and tell her personal business, then she was definitely not old enough to be on her own.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 16:30:12 GMT -5
Being left alone at that age for a work shift which would be most lkely no less than 6 hours probably falls under child abandonment. I'm curious how far away the park is from where mom works? Like SS said, Another article I read said the park was close and the girl would come back for lunch.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 15, 2014 16:38:13 GMT -5
Well, if 8 is the legal age then she's not breaking any law. Reading the site it sounds like those are the laws in terms of being left home alone. That's probably not considered the same as having your child wander around outside the home unsupervised for long periods of time. I assume it's also not necessarily the same thing as "my child is riding her bike from home to school then back again". This is like a child roaming free for hours while mom is otherwise occupied at work. To me, her actions seem pretty outrageous frankly. There is a big difference in my mind between someone who lets their kid go play at the park for an hour, and someone who is working and sends their kid to go play in the park while they are doing so (and presumably for more than an hour and essentially using the park as their daily childcare). It sounds like the child asked to go to the park rather than sit in a booth at McD's for the shift (which is what she had been doing until the laptop she had been playing on had was recently stolen). Their home had been robbed recently, so I think the park is a better solution than letting the child stay home alone in that situation.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Jul 15, 2014 16:40:41 GMT -5
Holy crud! At that age we had paper routes and were all over town making deliveries and knocking on people's doors to collect for last weeks paper deliveries for hours on end. And, we're talking 6 AM in all kinds of weather. Well before sun up in the winter time. And that's on top of our play activites. But, I guess our parents were really irresponsible. We also played with pocket knives, and operated power lawn mowers, and large snow blowers. Yet, all five of us still have all of our fingers and toes. As kids, we were apprently smart enough not to do things that many adults do to get badly injured every year. Then again, we were in MN. Where all children are above average (and, apparently, smarter than a lot of adults).
I think one of the things to consider in regard to the article being discussed is how long the child was spending in the park. McDonalds jobs can often be just a few hours over the busy lunch period. To allow a 9 year old child to spend two or three hours unsupervised in a park doesn't strike me as being terribly serious.
I wonder if the response would have been different if the child has told people "mom's across the street at home". Would Mom be charged with neglect in those circumstances? Or is the issue that Mom was working while the child was in the park? Mom wasn't there. Does it make any difference whether Mom was at home baking cookies or whether she was at McDonald's making a living?
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 15, 2014 16:45:33 GMT -5
It's still too much unsupervised time out in a public area. And I know "back in the day" kids could light their hair on fire and they turned out fine.. but I still don't agree with treating a pubilc park as a form of childcare for a 9 year old. But what if she was at the park, then went over to McD's to check in with her mom for lunch, then back to the park? It would also depend on the kid. Maybe she was really bothering/bullying other kids or latched on to the parents around (I know this will happen to DH while he's at the park with the kids), maybe she did something that brought the attention of the parents around that made them think this isn't right moreso than just being at the park.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jul 15, 2014 16:59:05 GMT -5
I know this website is likely to be biased.. www.freerangekids.com/crime-statistics/, but I really, really hope that places like the FBI, the Bureau of Justice and the folks at Pew Research are not doctoring the data which generally supports that we are safer now than we were 25 years ago. Personally, I'm more freaked about about what other parents will call me on than whether or not my kids will get hurt. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I know that I don't have the time to stick my nose in other people's business as much as others do in today's society. I'm kinda jealous and surprised at the large number of folks that live such easy/breezey lives that they can take on other issues, like what other people do in their bedrooms, how parents choose to parent, etc. ETA: I know for certain that my neighbors left their 11 and 9 year old boys at home for an hour or two while they ran. It would have NEVER dawned on me to call the cops and report them for child abuse, because the suggested age to be left home alone is 12. I also saw a few kids that were also under 12 walking around by themselves today. Is that what we are supposed to do now, follow the kids, and then call the cops because the parents aren't close by?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 15, 2014 17:00:22 GMT -5
Amen. A big MYOB is in order.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 15, 2014 17:00:47 GMT -5
Yeah.. and when I was a kid, not all cars had seatbelts, you didn't have to wear bicycle or motorcycle helmets, and there was no law against drinking and driving. Geez, I didn't realize you were THAT old!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 15, 2014 17:03:39 GMT -5
I think there were laws about drinking and driving but cops would just pull you over and take your keys and you home. Now it's different.
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kittensaver
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We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
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Post by kittensaver on Jul 15, 2014 17:06:01 GMT -5
As others have pointed out, there's a pretty big difference between a free-range child who is in transit/out playing with friends and a child who is left unsupervised for several hours in a public park while the parent is at work. Personally, I feel sorry for both of them! I wonder how quickly *some* folks on this Board would be to trash the mother for being a lazy welfare-collector if she instead chose to "stay home on her a$$ and watch TV." The mom is between a rock and a hard place Many mothers who live "on the edge" or who live in poverty are stuck in that small, painful place
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 17:41:41 GMT -5
A lot of people kids this age at the public library to get a few hours of babysitting. My mom's dates used to "treat" my sister and me to double-features.
Was it safer back then? This guy exposed himself in the Children's Dept. library when I was maybe 10 or 11. The librarian took care of it. I didn't even tell anyone except my older cousin, who explained that "No, the guy didn't have cancer, and that wasn't a tumor."
See how sheltered I was even though I hung out in bars when I was 7?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 15, 2014 17:44:49 GMT -5
Isn't it funny how things have changed? About 10 years ago my DD had a stalker. The schools SRO got on the phone with him and told him basically to leave her alone or else he wasnt going to be happy. Problem solved. Now the stalker would have all kinds of RIGHTS and the SRO would probably get sued and fired.
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